Character creation mechanic is dying.

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DementedSheep

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MysticSlayer said:
Plenty of older games had little to no customization beyond the class. Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines bases your look entirely off of gender and clan. If I remember correctly, Baldur's Gate and Fallout were basically the same (with Fallout being even more limiting to an extent). Bethesda also had very noticeable improvements with each new Elder Scrolls game, and while I didn't fiddle around my with Fallout 4's character creator (I was in a rush), it looked to be a significant improvement over Fallout 3 and New Vegas.

So really, I would say that it depends on what you're looking at.
To be fair, it would be a bit pointless to have a robust appearance CC in Baldur's gate since it's an isometric game so you don't see your character close up. Baludrs Gate lets you import any portrait and change colours. Those are what make the most difference.
 

Gordon_4_v1legacy

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Saelune said:
Character creation is one of my if not my top favorite game feature. I was disappointed with The Divisions creation, though with all the character based TF2 and MOBA clones coming out, anything that lets me be my own character is nice.

I prefer when they allow simple creation but let people get super specific if they want. I just hate sliders that aren't clear whats changing. Maybe make that more obvious.

I think hair styles is where it lacks the most, since hair can really make or break a face. I wish games would steal Tekken (of all things) hair creator thing that lets you customize the hair based on front side and back.
Oh fuck, the DA:I character creator is really versatile, but my god did they shit the bed in a big way with the hair styles. Especially on the Qunari, females more so than the males, but overall hair styles for those two options were just the fucking worst. Seriously I think the most popular mods for that game are new hair style ones.

Musou Tensei said:
Good, I usually go with the default design anyway nowadays, unless I can change the boob size. I much prefer actually designed characters.
Blade and Soul lets you do that - in fact it has got some crazy customization options. Like you can control the length of the character's calves or forearms, even hands.


Actually, what they need is some way to demo the character for about five or ten minutes before locking it in for the rest of the game.
 

TheMigrantSoldier

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I wish more games had the option to customize your character on the fly, like Mount and Blade. Less drama of spending 3-4 hours on the customization screen.

For my own preference, I prefer sliders with adjustable presets, so that I have a good base to build from.
 

FirstNameLastName

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sgy0003 said:
So i have recently started to play Tom Clancy's The Division, and I was baffled by lack of options when making my own guy. Usually when they give me option to do so, I make my character Asians to reflect my own skin types. But oh my god, all the Asian male models looked terrible. They are all slanted eye and no options to change eye types (I have bigger eyes than most Asians). So then I moved on to white male models, and while they looked bit better, the lack of making my own guy still was disappointing.

TO be fair on Ubisoft, this is the first game to allow character creation (at least for me), but damn, the least they could do is learn from Bethesda on what they did with Fallout and Elder Scroll games' character creation. You had the freedom to create a badass looking hero, or hilariously ugly looking field. Seriously, if you are going to have generic pre-made models with little options to change them, what the hell is the point of giving us the choice in first place?

Division is not the only game guilty of this crime. Dragon Age Inquisition (DAII did a better job, IMO), Destiny, Star Wars Battlefront EA, and other games had really bad character creation.

This is a trend that needs to stop
Trend? What trend? Character creation technology has only improved with time as more advanced manipulation becomes possible. I haven't played either Destiny or Star Wars Battlefront, but as I understand it, in both games you'll pretty much be covered from head to toe in armor most of the time, and probably in first person most of the time as well, or staring at the back of your head. I haven't played DA:I either, but from what I've heard, it has a relatively good character creator, or at least decent.

I think this is more of a case of so many character creators becoming so good that when one doesn't live up to the ever increasing expectations it feels terrible in comparison. If anything, the trend is good character creation leaving others behind, not character creation as a whole going down hill.
 

008Zulu_v1legacy

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Fallout 4 is like every single Bethesda game before it; Patiently adjust every single detail of the face and hair to get the perfect character, then 5 minutes in, put on a helmet that hides it all.
 

FalloutJack

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Other people failing to do what's been done right does not equal the death of character creation. It equals the criticism of those who can't hack it.
 

RedDeadFred

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I'd say this is just more of Ubisoft being Ubisoft rather than a legitimate game mechanic dying. Afterall, the Division is mediocre in just about everything it does, so why exclude character creation from that?
 

Buckets

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Never really been too bothered with over complicated character generators, if there is a preset I feel happy with, that's what I go for. It doesn't really add much to the game experience for me.
I am quite impressed when someone gets the facial features of someone famous just right, but I don't have the patience to do that.
 

MHR

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Good. It's getting to be an old idea anyway. How many times in how many games can you create your own character or yourself painstakingly before it gets repetitive in itself?

Some of these stupid games you don't even see your character. You go into first person right away or slap a helmet right away on the face you just took 10 minutes to sculpt. In MMOs nobody's going to get close enough to your face to see if you did it interesting enough. They're gonna see your name and your hat and that's you.

Not to mention the development time that goes into these near-trivial things. A character creation system gets touted and fussed over, and how much effort was sunk into that morsel instead of the actual content?

I didn't get The Division, but I wouldn't be sad if character creation wasn't so highly rated anymore. Just give me the preset, some clothing, a good hat, the hair color, and that's almost all I need to make it my own anyway.
 

Joccaren

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Zhukov said:
I actually prefer character creators where you choose from premade features rather than fiddle with sliders.

Sliders tend to result in faces that look fine during creation but then fall apart when animated or when seen from a particular angle.

Although of course providing more and varied features to choose from is never a bad thing.
This is very true, and in all honesty, most games don't need a character creator at all. I can see that changing a little as gaming becomes more inclusive, and going forward most games that aren't about a fixed protagonist should include an option for male or female, white, black, asian [Middle Eastern should also be included, but I'll be damned if I think a games company would go against the current xenophobia in that area at the cost of profits, to try and be truly socially equal - without making it an obvious publicity stunt]. You don't need all the options, and the ability to choose everything, just a preset you can somewhat identify with. You'll never be able to get everyone, but cover the main bases and I think that's reasonable.

Character creators belong in, and IMO should be kept to, games about expression of yourself. Most Western RPGs come to mind here. In these games its about placing yourself in that world, and using it to express who you as a person are; or if you would rather, express who someone you invented as a character is through role play. For this, you need to be able to create the character, its an important part of expression.
Take something like Battlefield for instance... Nothing is gained by having you spend 30 minutes in the character creator before you start playing. Most people will still do it, because the option is there and why the hell not play as yourself, but it'd be 30 minutes of boredom at odds with what that player would rather be doing - shooting things - and its something they'd likely never think of again once they started playing as it has 0 impact on the game at all, and they'd never even see themselves. Only time it'd be noticed is when you run into other players who had just messed with the creator to create a half-alien crosseyed skeletal dwarf with a purple mohawke to play as, or some other eldritch monstrosity.

Star Wars battlefront had a crap character creator? That's good - because if it had included a good one, honestly, it would have just detracted from the game further. In these games the point of the character creator isn't to let players express themselves, but to create diversity - whether racial and gender or more simply just a diversity of character models - for the multiplayer so that not everyone looks the same. Same probably goes for Destiny. You're covered in so much armour that really all the character creator will do is slow the player down and put them in a lull before the game at least tries to throw them into some hectic shooting gameplay. The feel of the creator is at odds with the feel of the game.

Yeah, some people want a character creator in everything, and want to always feel a connection to their characters in that way. Not all games are designed for that type of player though, and its a good thing they're not. There are games with that as a core focus, there are other games where its not even considered. That creates variety in the gaming scene, and lets everyone have games geared to their tastes, rather than the actual increasing trend these days of watering down niche games into amalgamations of every conceivable genre to try and appeal to all players at once. TBH even that has thankfully started to slow, especially with the rise of many successful indie games, and big developers leaving to go indie themselves.

But back to fully on topic... Character creators are not needed for every game. They actually take away more from some games than they add to them. The games that do need them? Generally have good ones. Ones that don't need them? Should simply offer a handful of presets, rather than a crap character creator. Depends on the game as to whether they're a good thing or not.
 

Casual Shinji

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Zhukov said:
I actually prefer character creators where you choose from premade facial features rather than fiddle with sliders. (So for example picking from a list of noses rather than having nose length, nose height and nose width sliders.)
Dragon's Dogma did this very well, but then Dragon's Dogma has one of the best character editors.
Something Amyss said:
I like it when you can do both. Though any such game needs to have a "real world" test before you finalise your character.
Wasn't Dragon Age: Inquistion supposed to have the option to test your creation in various lighting before finalizing, so you could check if it looked like shit?
 

AVATAR_RAGE

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"Oh look this game is a shooter/MMO hybrid, slap in a character creation so people can feel like they are different". (at least until armour drops make every look the same anyway).

Honestly I don't think the mechanic is dying, but I do feel like most games slap it in as more of an after thought. It's just like what happened to QTE's and crafting systems. Every one feels like they need them but are not sure how to use them properly yet.
 

Fieldy409_v1legacy

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Zhukov said:
I actually prefer character creators where you choose from premade facial features rather than fiddle with sliders. (So for example picking from a list of noses rather than having nose length, nose height and nose width sliders.)

Sliders tend to result in faces that look fine during creation but then fall apart when animated or when seen from a particular angle.

Although of course providing more and varied features to choose from is never a bad thing.
Immediately brings to mind first Mass Effect.

Spend half an hour making a character, as soon as the first cutscene runs 'fuck!'
 

Amaror

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Something Amyss said:
Gethsemani said:
This thread gets made after Fallout 4 released with the best character generator in a Bethesda game to date some 5 months ago and only a few weeks after Black Desert Online became available in the West, a game lauded for its' potent character generator. I am going to go with: Hyperbolic thread title is hyperbolic.

No, character creation mechanics are not dying. Some games have less options then others, this is how it has always been and always will be.
At the same time, you're pointing to a singular example. That's like pointing to Fallout or TES and saying that they prove there isn't a decline in single-player only games. It's nice that F4 has robust creation options, but is it the norm? Fallout games used to not be particularly impressive, while F4 now stands out.
Ok, aside from Fallout 4 we have Dragon Age:Inquisition (No Idea why OP said it was bad, it was really extensive), Xcom 2 has an extensive character creator, even MGS 5: The phantom pain had a rather extensive character creater, even though it didn't really change your appearance.
Additionally:
Saints Row: Gat out of Hell, Pillars of Eternity, Stardew Valley, The Sims 4 and various expansions. And these are just the game I can personally remember right now.
You can hardly say that Character Creators are dying. In fact more games then ever before are getting character creators. I wouldn't see any reason why Battlefront, a game were you wear a helm the whole time anyway, would ever need a character creator, but apparently it has one.
Pointing at a single game with a bad character creator and stating that character creators are dying is rediculous. And when you make an absolute statement like that sometimes a single example is enough to disprove it.
I could point to Fallout 4 and proclaim that open-world storytelling is officially dead now and someone pointing out the Witcher 3 would be enough to show how rediculous my proclamation was.
 

Zhukov

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Fieldy409 said:
Zhukov said:
I actually prefer character creators where you choose from premade facial features rather than fiddle with sliders. (So for example picking from a list of noses rather than having nose length, nose height and nose width sliders.)

Sliders tend to result in faces that look fine during creation but then fall apart when animated or when seen from a particular angle.

Although of course providing more and varied features to choose from is never a bad thing.
Immediately brings to mind first Mass Effect.

Spend half an hour making a character, as soon as the first cutscene runs 'fuck!'
Yes!

Exactly what I was thinking of when I wrote that.

I am intimately familiar with that first cutscene. The suspense as the camera follows Shepard up to the cockpit then pans up to his/her face where you finally get to see what horror you have created.
 

DoPo

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Lufia Erim said:
Can i make my character a girl? Can i make her fat? If a game allows me to do both those things
, i am happy.
This reminds me - when I started playing Skyrim, my first character was a female Dunmer. I randomised her appearance several times until she was close to what looked OK to me, then I fiddled with few sliders as final touches. After changing her hair style colour, I notices she looked a bit malnourished, so I decided to ramp up the weight slider. I wasn't even going after "fat", I wanted what I thought would look normal. And yet I found out the slider was already almost maxed out.

So, yeah, I could only have females that are a bit malnourished to quite malnourished with that editor. Or at least Dumner - I can't remember if all females looked that way.
 

Mister K

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Lufia Erim said:
Can i make my character a girl? Can i make her fat? If a game allows me to do both those things
, i am happy.

The reason being, i like fat girls and i try to make my characters look like my gf. So far, Dragons dogma was the best.
What about Saints Row series? Granted, I doubt your lady would be quite pleased if she sees her copy running around a city naked while beating people with purple dildobat, but the character creator still allows for creating pretty much anyone.

OT: OP dearest, I understand how you feel. For example, what is the point of making a character creator in TES games if it's first person game and you won't even see the fruits of your labor?

However (and that is a big however), I personally like to play around with well made character creators in 3rd person games. I like creating characters. Granted, I'd rather have no character creation mechanic than the bad one, but I still like the mechanic.

Character creation mechanic is a mechanic like any other. If you want to actually do something good with it and you know how to do it, then it can result in something fun, engaging and enjoyable.

Also, please refrain from using the logic of "the X mechanic in Y game is bad, ergo X mechanic is dead". It isn't quite right to generalize.
 

Mister K

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DoPo said:
Lufia Erim said:
Can i make my character a girl? Can i make her fat? If a game allows me to do both those things
, i am happy.
This reminds me - when I started playing Skyrim, my first character was a female Dunmer. I randomised her appearance several times until she was close to what looked OK to me, then I fiddled with few sliders as final touches. After changing her hair style colour, I notices she looked a bit malnourished, so I decided to ramp up the weight slider. I wasn't even going after "fat", I wanted what I thought would look normal. And yet I found out the slider was already almost maxed out.

So, yeah, I could only have females that are a bit malnourished to quite malnourished with that editor. Or at least Dumner - I can't remember if all females looked that way.
I think it's just how dunmer (and elves in general) look in Skyrim: skinny. I remember trying to fiddle with sliders and making decent looking characters.
 

DoPo

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Mister K said:
DoPo said:
Lufia Erim said:
Can i make my character a girl? Can i make her fat? If a game allows me to do both those things
, i am happy.
This reminds me - when I started playing Skyrim, my first character was a female Dunmer. I randomised her appearance several times until she was close to what looked OK to me, then I fiddled with few sliders as final touches. After changing her hair style colour, I notices she looked a bit malnourished, so I decided to ramp up the weight slider. I wasn't even going after "fat", I wanted what I thought would look normal. And yet I found out the slider was already almost maxed out.

So, yeah, I could only have females that are a bit malnourished to quite malnourished with that editor. Or at least Dumner - I can't remember if all females looked that way.
I think it's just how dunmer (and elves in general) look in Skyrim: skinny. I remember trying to fiddle with sliders and making decent looking characters.
Probably. I can't remember if I even tried the other races. Still, I do remember that normally the Altmer would be skinnier in general, Bosmer would be just smaller and Dunmer were usually human-proportioned in previous games.
 

Lufia Erim

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Mister K said:
Lufia Erim said:
Can i make my character a girl? Can i make her fat? If a game allows me to do both those things
, i am happy.

The reason being, i like fat girls and i try to make my characters look like my gf. So far, Dragons dogma was the best.
What about Saints Row series? Granted, I doubt your lady would be quite pleased if she sees her copy running around a city naked while beating people with purple dildobat, but the character creator still allows for creating pretty much anyone.
I never played saints row to be honest. But if i had to guess it would be SR who would allow proper Character creation.

Oh and my gf would find me playing as a naked version of her beating people down with a purple dildo halarious. Thats true love xD.