Characters you thought "deserved better"

[Twinrehz]

But we can agree that scene with the Mariachi Band was hilarious right?

I don't remember my reaction, but it was certainly out of place.

This always bugged the hell out of me, it's actually soured me on the movies quite a bit. Since I think the actual ending of any story is a pretty important part of it. Leaving the Shire untouched takes away from the impact and bittersweetness of the ending. Which originally showed even the innocent childlike Hobbits suffered and died because of a war they had nothing to do with. Also without the need to stay behind to rebuild the Shire Frodo's long stay in it after coming back doesn't make much sense. Saruman wasn't the only one to suffer from that particular edit.

There is a mountain of things they could've done different during filming. For my part, the one thing that grates me most of all is the casting choice of Elijah Wood as Frodo. To me it just seems sort of wrong, Frodo goes through one hell of a transformation during the story, and turns out to be quite a durable hobbit. Elijah Wood doesn't fit that part, Frodo doesn't come off as a durable character the way Wood plays him, he strikes me more as a weak sickly thing that needs someone to hold his hand all the time, and I truly don't like that. He sort of lacks charisma, and Frodo is a character we're supposed to like.

A complaint I saw someone make in an IMDb-comment was that they found the decision of making the dwarfs essentially scottish really weird. The language used by the dwarfs in Tolkien's world exists, and according to the commenter the accent would have been very different if they'd considered this. Another one found it annoying that Gimli was basically turned into the comic relief of the story, whereas in the book that part is filled by Merry and Pippin (IIRC).

Star Trek TNG's formulaic nature is mostly a product of its time. You saw 1 episode of a show a week. Unless you had the bread to shell out for VHS copies of shows which were rare and expensive. (Even blank tapes were expensive, about $6 a pop, probably more like $9 adjusted for inflation. And the quality went to hell if you wanted to record more than 2 hours on one.) TNG was made in such a way that the episodes could be watched out of order and still make sense. And you basically knew what you were getting into when you sat down to watch it. This kind of formula definitely isn't for everyone but I don't think it's fair to criticize any one show of the time for it specifically.

You might like to try Deep Space Nine if you haven't already. When it first started out it was episodic and somewhat formulaic as well. But by about the 3rd season, corresponding to the mid/late 90s, it had its sea-legs and become much more serialized. With a huge overarching plot and many long running subplots that lasted the rest of the show. This, along with an overall darker tone and themes, led it to be more of a cult series. Because it was not very accessible to people who might want to just catch the occasional re-run.

Sounds interesting, I'll consider giving it a shot. Your explanation of it's formulaic nature and format makes sense, I suppose it's more of a first-world problem of having the time to actually watch a whole lot of series and expect a certain kind of continuity in them. I want to say that series having a connecting story line from one episode to the next is a new thing, but I know that's not true. The original Dr. Who-series that ran from the 50's to the 80's had one storyline connecting sequential episodes, together in couples of 3-6 or something like that (I recently glanced over a list over old episodes, didn't look too carefully at it).

I suppose with modern technology that allows recording of episodes at basically no expense, along with Netflix, HBO, Hulu and other less honest options allows people more freedom to watch the series they want to at a time that suits them, makes it easier to follow the plot of a series more thoroughly.

I think its the way John De Lancie sold it that really gave it so much humour, though he played Q really well overall, heck he knew the character better than some writers, some of his improvs were far better than what was written and suited the character better.

Its a shame Voyager reduced Q to jar jar binks levels of played for cheap laughs.

I haven't seen anything of Voyager past the first half of season 1 or something (I think it was dropped from screens in this country), and with that description, I never will.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Saruman also deserved way better than his non-appearence in Return of the King. I know this gets fixed in the extended edition, but still. This was arguably the main villain in the preceding two movies, you can't just handwave him like that.

I know I'm going to be alone in this, but I actually prefer the theatrical version where you don't see him at all and his fate is left somewhat undecided. In the extended edition they just kill him off and never mention him again. I mean, he was basically the main antagonist throughout the first two films, and beyond that he was the head of Gandalf's order. And yet nobody so much as utters a word about it after he gets killed. You'd think this would have some kind of impact on the characters or events, but no.

And apart from that the actual exchange between the characters feels very flimsy, too. In the book you get a real sense of how dangerous this conversation is, because even defeated Saruman can fuck them up with his voice alone.

Shitty as the extended edition closure may be, it still is some form of closure. It took two whole movies to get to Isengard and best all of Saruman's power, and when they finally ride to the bottom of the tower they just look up and Gandalf goes "On second thought, let's not go up there. He's not a threat any more". All that was missing was a song-and-dance routine about Isengard and you get that one Monty Python joke about Camelot.

 

[GabeZhul]

A few months ago, I watched an anime on Netflix called Kaze no Stigma. Overall, I think the show was mediocre at best, and I would have stopped watching it pretty early if I hadn't liked the main character, Kazuma, so much; the dude was a grade-A badass. Short version: He was born to a family of fire mages, but he couldn't firebend, so his family disowned him. He disappears for something like a decade, then returns as a preposterously powerful wind mage who can kick a person's ass without even taking his hands out of his pockets. He was also a snarky troll who had a sarcastic quip for just about everything. The father (or maybe grandfather, I can't remember) of the show's female lead (I can't remember her name, so I'll just call her "Stereotypical Hotheaded Tsundere Would-Be Love Interest") tries to play matchmaker and pair up his (grand?)daughter with Kazuma. Stereotypical Hotheaded Tsundere Would-Be Love Interest, being a stereotypical hotheaded tsundere would-be love interest, pretends to hate Kazuma and lashes out violently at him for the slightest perceived transgression, but she can never lay so much as a finger on him because the dude so vastly outclasses her in combat skills. What's more, Kazuma will say and do things to intentionally make Stereotypical Hotheaded Tsundere Would-Be Love Interest fly off the handle, because her impotent rage amuses him. Here's an example: Kazuma says a thing, S.H.T.W.B.L.I. takes offense and tries to kick him in the face, Kazuma catches her ankle with one hand, then comments on how it might be a bad idea to try to deliver a high kick while wearing a skirt.

So in answer to the original question: I think Kazuma deserved a better anime to star in.

Kazuma would be a good character that deserved better... if he was actually "fixed". The reason I actively disliked Kaze no Stigma was that the protagonist was an inconsistently written asshole. The writer tried to create this "jerk with a heart of gold" character, but in the end he just ended up constantly contradicting himself and changing his personality up in every second scene to the point of DID...

As for actual characters I think would deserve better...

Well, there is Kotonoha from School Days (the game, not the anime version). She is a nice, slightly socially anxious girl who gets into a relationship with the protagonist... who is a spineless, indecisive cheater, and his actions (and the scheming of the other heroine and some others) drive her crazy (sometimes quite literally). She just deserves to be in a better story with a different male lead.

Then there is poor Jurgen from the Ciaphas Cain novels. He is the aide of the titular comissar and HERO OF THE IMPERIUM, a Blank whose mere presence is enough to sort out psykers and make demons run home to mommy, he is one of the best drivers in the army and he runs around with a melta gun that he uses on several occasions to save Cain and kill anything and everything from Necron Warriors to Pure-Strain Genestealers... And he is left out of all official records talking about Cain, sometimes obviously on purpose, just because he is unsightly and has personal hygene issues (which he may or may not adopted on purpose to mask his Blank status). Sure, Cain and his closest allies appreciate him enough, but the poor guy can never catch a break.

 

[EyeReaper]

Well, first on my mind is that Anders from Dragon Age really didn't deserve turning into Whiny McHatesTemplars in DA 2. He seemed like such a cool character in Awakenings. Wait, scratch that. Justice deserved this even less.

Justice was a cool guy. His companion quest was helping a grieving widow. He was a stand-up dude, representing everything about his name. Then the sequel happened. Anders and justice "fused" together for some stupid reason, and was corrupted into a spirit of Vengeance which doesn't make any sense to me. Wasn't how the fade works is that Demons are always bad and Spirits are always good? Are there any good demons? no. So why should there be bad spirits? It doesn't even matter any more. Instead of incorporating both peronalities, the final character didn't seem like either. Just an idiot doing stupid things and refusing to follow Hawke's advice.

 

[Vault101]

Can't blame Yar's lack of development on anyone but Denise Crosby, who in essence put a phaser on kill and shot the character's future because apparently she was allergic to money. Before you say recast, the series was already a big risk and recasting her may have put TNG in an early grave if they screwed it up. So instead they decided to use her as the "anyone can die, not just redshirts" example. Sucks, but that was how things worked.

yeah the character could have gotten better had Crosby stuck it out...everything was shitty in season 1, Yarr stands out because it was season 1 (though she wasn't handled that great but more on that in a sec) but no one had much faith in season 1 at the time...in retrospect it wasn't the best career move on her part but how would you know that at the time? whos to say TNG wouldn't get passed 2 seasons and be known forever as a bizarre joke? (or "I don't know I kind of liked it" at best")

[quote/]Considering all the social and civil boundaries that Roddenberry pushed over the years with Star Trek, I don't believe one can really get down on any of the pre-Abrams timelines for slight missteps they've had. I mean it featured women in high positions, the first interracial kiss on TV, spoke volumes on race relations, politics, etc. (Star Trek VI is one of my all time favorite political commentaries still relevant to today's world).[/quote]
I won't comment on the original series but in regards to TNG...

Roddenberry had some nice ideas...but thats what really what they were.."ideas" [footnote/](in fact I once saw an interesting review saying Roddenberry has the same "idea" of the federation as Worf does of the Klingon Empire...they believe in the idea, but don't see what they actually are...I thought that was fitting)[/footnote] his characters were still subject to all kinds of BS (not solely the fault of him of coarse) particularly the female characters I mean don't get me started on the baby episode or the "fight in the arena" episode


[quote/]Anyway, Denise Crosby f'ed up Yar, and the writers more or less did what they could with her in the alternate universe and Sela story. It wasn't pretty, it wasn't supposed to be. It was designed to get in your face and show you how screwed up and immoral the Romulans are.[/quote]
I did say that Yar's best moments came after she died...look I LOVED yesterdays enterprise, and I have no problem with the romu-yar thing, [footnote/]excpet for the "you did this Picard" part since while he did the circumstances were...different[/footnote] its just that I'm personally a bit disturbed by the implications, I tend to find rape and servitude a bit upsetting...hell that was probably the point wasn't it? my issue was that Yesterdays enterprise gave a nice sense of closure for the character whereas redemption 2 (for me, my opinion) undid that

I'm not blaming anyone in particular, this is really just me

 

[Vault101]

Sounds interesting, I'll consider giving it a shot. Your explanation of it's formulaic nature and format makes sense, I suppose it's more of a first-world problem of having the time to actually watch a whole lot of series and expect a certain kind of continuity in them. I want to say that series having a connecting story line from one episode to the next is a new thing, but I know that's not true. The original Dr. Who-series that ran from the 50's to the 80's had one storyline connecting sequential episodes, together in couples of 3-6 or something like that (I recently glanced over a list over old episodes, didn't look too carefully at it).
.

there are some connecting storylines...and in a way I actually find the formulaic nature....sort of comforting in a way, just something you throw on on a sunday night or after work to watch for 40min, its definitely outdated I suppose (for the reasons stated) but in a way it doesn't mean you're dying to binge on it in one weekend, you think "oh whats this episode going to be about?....oh Picard and his archeologist girlfreind?....meh skip"

 

[Reece_b]

So I assume people here are watching the tv series The strain at the moment so major spoiler for the end of the series so don't read if you haven't read the books

Spoiler

Dr. Ephraim Goodweather, the man starts out being trodden on by his boss but builds him self up to be a leader during the initial stage of the vampire out break but by the time the third book roles around he has fallen into depression and alcoholism (which he had struggled with before the books beginnings) due to the abduction of his only son, the turning of his ex-wife and the destruction of pretty much all of human society. Basically the third book starts out with his friends just bitching about him behind his back and in the last chapter of the book after he has sacrificed him self during a last stand, two of the other characters have a kid and name him Ephraim but pretty much say thank good he isn't taking after his name sake

 

[Something Amyss]

I'll admit its mostly my overactive imagination, can you just imagine living on a planet of people who probably don't like you, having to have sex with a guy you hate (even if he is nice about it and gives you nice shit its still rape) having no freinds, no one to turn too.... you still keep the starfleet communicator with you...some nights you hold it in your hand and try not to cry...for what you used to be...and for what you are now...

....christ I need a drink

What do you mean? Sounds like my wildest dreams come true!

Okay, that was a little sarcastic.

oh....oh god the baby episode

[i/]the baby episode[/i]

That would be one reason. I seem to recall a few others, but I never liked TNG so it's been a while since I last watched it.

and you forgot Crusher....for giving birth to Wesley

Yes, but Wesley led to the rise of Will Wheaton, our Hallowed Nerd God. He was like a sacrificial lamb unto us.

...or ponies.

Kirk has got to be one of the biggest contesters for this thread, I'm sure.
Sure, he needed to die one way or the other I guess, but he should've died as a captain, doing something Captainy only he can do, not in a fist fight with some guy in the desert.

I'd settle for him going out in an actual fight, even.

There was someone else who went out in a very similar fashion to Kirk, and I'm trying to remember who. Though since you mentioned Data, he's certainly a contender. I just tend to forget Nemesis.

 

[Ratty]

Sounds interesting, I'll consider giving it a shot. Your explanation of it's formulaic nature and format makes sense, I suppose it's more of a first-world problem of having the time to actually watch a whole lot of series and expect a certain kind of continuity in them. I want to say that series having a connecting story line from one episode to the next is a new thing, but I know that's not true. The original Dr. Who-series that ran from the 50's to the 80's had one storyline connecting sequential episodes, together in couples of 3-6 or something like that (I recently glanced over a list over old episodes, didn't look too carefully at it).
.

there are some connecting storylines...and in a way I actually find the formulaic nature....sort of comforting in a way, just something you throw on on a sunday night or after work to watch for 40min, its definitely outdated I suppose (for the reasons stated) but in a way it doesn't mean you're dying to binge on it in one weekend, you think "oh whats this episode going to be about?....oh Picard and his archeologist girlfreind?....meh skip"

Comforting is a good word for it I think. It's un-stressful and uncomplicated, you can just let yourself be carried away for about half an hour. As for ongoing storylines there were a few, particularly in the later seasons. But especially early on they were written in an unobtrusive way that wasn't hard to follow and usually didn't interfere with the "A" plot of an episode. Both of Worf's main plotlines [footnote]

Spoiler

His family dishonor and his tense relationship with his estranged son.

[/footnote] actually carried over and increased in intensity with him when he joined the crew of DS9.

Also funny thing about that Risa episode. The writer originally wanted to make Risa a sort of dark carnival planet and have Picard go into a holodeck attraction to "Face his greatest fear!" which Picard assumed would be fighting Romulans or something. Instead it just makes him confront his fear of getting older and being stuck behind a desk as an Admiral rather than out exploring as a Captain. Pretty similar to Kirk's concern in Wrath of Khan. That was rejected and instead Risa was re-written as a perfect sex resort planet and the episode became about the Captain getting laid lol. Incidentally that archeologist character "Vash" (no relation to the Stampede as far as I know) showed up again in Q's only appearance on DS9.

Sounds interesting, I'll consider giving it a shot. Your explanation of it's formulaic nature and format makes sense, I suppose it's more of a first-world problem of having the time to actually watch a whole lot of series and expect a certain kind of continuity in them. I want to say that series having a connecting story line from one episode to the next is a new thing, but I know that's not true. The original Dr. Who-series that ran from the 50's to the 80's had one storyline connecting sequential episodes, together in couples of 3-6 or something like that (I recently glanced over a list over old episodes, didn't look too carefully at it).

I suppose with modern technology that allows recording of episodes at basically no expense, along with Netflix, HBO, Hulu and other less honest options allows people more freedom to watch the series they want to at a time that suits them, makes it easier to follow the plot of a series more thoroughly.

Yeah, there were serialized shows but aside from soap operas they were the exception rather than the norm I think. Also Dr. Who is a little different because it was tied to one network, the BBC. While if I'm remembering right Star Trek TNG and similarly formulaic/episodic shows from around the time, like Hercules the Legendary Journeys, were syndicated to lots of different networks. So they didn't always have control over how or when the episodes would be shown. But yeah the way we watch TV now is very different. A show being formulaic is less noticeable and less likely to bother you if you only see one 40 minute episode a week.

 

[Vault101]

Comforting is a good word for it I think. It's un-stressful and uncomplicated, you can just let yourself be carried away for about half an hour.

exactly!

and while people have said serialisation is outdated...I think for a show like Trek it does allow them to experiment with random ideas

one episode were on a strange planet...the other were in a sherlock holmes story, one of my favorites is actually one that involves Doctor Crusher's "universe" shrinking to the point where its just her and Picard on the enterprise and theres nothing odd about that at all

you can fuck around without having to care about a main plotline

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

yeah the character could have gotten better had Crosby stuck it out...everything was shitty in season 1, Yarr stands out because it was season 1 (though she wasn't handled that great but more on that in a sec) but no one had much faith in season 1 at the time...in retrospect it wasn't the best career move on her part but how would you know that at the time? whos to say TNG wouldn't get passed 2 seasons and be known forever as a bizarre joke? (or "I don't know I kind of liked it" at best")

Its hard to see the future of course, easy to look at the past, but personally I would have stayed on just to see how far it would go, but thats me. I'm sure Crosby kicks herself just a bit looking back on this.

I won't comment on the original series but in regards to TNG...

Roddenberry had some nice ideas...but thats what really what they were.."ideas" [footnote/](in fact I once saw an interesting review saying Roddenberry has the same "idea" of the federation as Worf does of the Klingon Empire...they believe in the idea, but don't see what they actually are...I thought that was fitting)[/footnote] his characters were still subject to all kinds of BS (not solely the fault of him of coarse) particularly the female characters I mean don't get me started on the baby episode or the "fight in the arena" episode

Yeah, there were a lot of missteps, scifi is a general minefield of tropes and whatnot. Funny how you mention the Federation, it amazes me how many people hold it up as if the Federation is some majorly enlightened system when its just as messed up internally as anything we have today. Every crisis they've had, its always come about that the federation was wrong, at fault or the instigator of whatever event aside from V'Ger and the Probe from IV.
Yeah its odd, but I felt that Gene wanted people to accept each other for who they were, not skin color/gender, and thats why he pushed for some things. Doesn't mean he got it all correct, nor am I possibly 100% accurate with how I feel.


[quote/]Anyway, Denise Crosby f'ed up Yar, and the writers more or less did what they could with her in the alternate universe and Sela story. It wasn't pretty, it wasn't supposed to be. It was designed to get in your face and show you how screwed up and immoral the Romulans are.[/quote]
I did say that Yar's best moments came after she died...look I LOVED yesterdays enterprise, and I have no problem with the romu-yar thing, [footnote/]excpet for the "you did this Picard" part since while he did the circumstances were...different[/footnote] its just that I'm personally a bit disturbed by the implications, I tend to find rape and servitude a bit upsetting...hell that was probably the point wasn't it? my issue was that Yesterdays enterprise gave a nice sense of closure for the character whereas redemption 2 (for me, my opinion) undid that

I'm not blaming anyone in particular, this is really just me[/quote]

Of course, rape and servitude is disturbing as hell, its much safer to explore these topics fictionally than in real life. I'd much rather keep the concepts to fiction and never see or hear of them in real life again, but that will not happen in my lifetime.
I feel sometimes we're way too critical of a lot of entertainment media, expect it to be a model of society as it should be. Its great to have goals and aspirations, but sometimes I think it goes a bit far to critique every little detail and measure it up against some social yardstick. Sometimes x is just x, sometimes we should enjoy things as they are instead of picking apart every detail looking for y.
Don't get me wrong I'm definitely not saying that we shouldn't aspire for more. We should. I'm saying we don't need to denigrate everything previous just because it doesn't match up with how we see things should be.
BTW you and I seem to have some back and forths now and again, I do want to say I enjoy our talks and you do help me settle my own viewpoints.

 

[Johnny Impact]

Spoiler: Perdido Street Station

Pretty much everyone except Yagharek. Lin has her mind eaten and ends up worse than dead. Isaac is a broken shell of a man consumed by guilt and grief over the part he played in what happened to Lin. Several people are dead....a memorable ending, not a happy one.

It's hard to feel sorry for Yagharek. He committed a serious crime but, instead of feeling remorse, spends the whole book whining about how he didn't deserve to be caught and punished.

 

[Vault101]

Its hard to see the future of course, easy to look at the past, but personally I would have stayed on just to see how far it would go, but thats me. I'm sure Crosby kicks herself just a bit looking back on this.

I agree she should have stuck it out...still she did pop up those few times so mabye there wasn't too much ill will on either side

all that said though I admit I don't like criticising actors...of coarse some are just better than others, but its easy for people to sit and tear them apart or debate over what they should/shouldn't have done but while I'm not saying we should pull out the violins for the actors of the world ...we weren't there at the time, making a good career move isn't always easy and regardless of your ability your really at mercy of the writing/editing/direction, while some actors can make anything good (ie patrick stewart) the middle of the road ones don't always get the best break...

..interestingly I think Crosby seems a lot more comfortable playing seila then she ever did playing Yar

[quote/]
Of course, rape and servitude is disturbing as hell, its much safer to explore these topics fictionally than in real life. I'd much rather keep the concepts to fiction and never see or hear of them in real life again, but that will not happen in my lifetime.
[/quote]

my other issue with her end was I get vibes of "babies make everything better" (another example see: baby episode) which...no...they do not

seila actuallys says [i/]"they gave her her life, they gave her a home! they gave her a child!"[/i] <- I have no problem with that line coming from her because its very much in character...but again I do wonder if were suposed to see the whole ordeal as "not as bad" because she got a baby...

I mean if you have a child through terrible means the love you have for that child and the means he/she came about are entirely separate things and should be treated as such, the ends don't justify the means and all that

 

[Veylon]

Did I mention that Pinkie Pie, Rainbow Dash, Applejack, Rarity, and Fluttershy deserve a break? After five straight key episodes of them learning valuable life lessons about their Elements of Harmony, they were all made useless and disposable in-exchange of the over-empowerment of Twilight Sparkle.

They literally grew and developed as characters, just to have all of that development flushed down the toilet just to make way for Twilight's godlike power levels!

Hardly the first time. The writers very rarely think twice about the cliches they use. This scene is usually done this way and this way we will do it! Even if the setting, setup, and characterization militate against it.

A Hero has to confront The Bad Guy in a duel and so Twilight is the automatic designee, even though it's a friendship-based show, there are several better potential warriors, and there's no need for the confrontation anyway.

And even though she's the star, Twilight gets shortchanged as well. She's always been the mastermind and boss of the team, always been the one making the decisions of the group, always the leader. She's the one with the title and crown and infused with destiny. Wouldn't it be a great character development for her to realize that sometimes she isn't the most qualified pony to deal with something? Imagine that it comes to the big showdown and the villain is coming to face her, calls out her name, and it's one of her friends who's there to face them. Wouldn't subverting the dramatic moment make quite the twist? Destiny is calling, but Twilight is content to be on the sidelines because she has confidence in her friend as her better at the key moment.

Or, heck, why not take all that power she was buzzing with and split it between her friends. We all wanted Alicorn Mane Six, right? She can take a moment on the side to recognize that she's different from the other Princesses because the power she wields isn't a solitary power, it's a power of friendship, a power that must be shared to have any meaning. Though this might work better if she'd been asking herself what kind of Princess she is throughout the season and have the answer subtly hinted at.

 

[Redryhno]

OT- I suppose the only suitable character I can think of is maybe Lucy from Fairy Tail.

Well, they've also established that Item-Based Magic has a limit to what it can do, and Erza, while supremely strong, is going to be "outscaled" by Grey, Natsu, Gajeel, and Wendy eventually simply because their magic doesn't exactly have a cap like herself. And keep in mind that Lucy's only been a real wizard for something like a year or something in-universe, whereas the other six I've listed were either raised by magical beings, or grew up surrounded by literal solidified magic. She's the weakest of them because she's the least experienced, but is already one of the strongest in the world. Comparatively, she's got the short end of the stick, but I honestly hate the majority of her character traits, so I don't care and she hasn't had the time the others have.

Also keep in mind I haven't watched or read it in a while, since somewhere around the Tournament arc, so my opinion may be really outdated.

snip

Fucking Anders. He did not deserve to go from Awakenings Alistair to Whiny McShootyBitch #9856752146...Neither did Justice, but he screwed up a bit choosing to possess Anders and his Templar-hating, but hilarious, personality. It wasn't so much Justice being bad, as Anders hatred of all things shiny, stoned, and blue-tinged twisting Justice's honestly noble...ideal and personality into the Vengeance we meet in DA2.

 

[Jolly Co-operator]

From JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, parts 1 and 3:

Spoiler

Jonathan Joestar. He sacrifices himself to take Dio down in the sinking ship with him, and yet Dio still possesses his body and uses it for evil later in part 3. I thought it was a cool plot point, but it really feels like an ignoble way to go for Jonathan. He's the one in his bloodline that started the family tradition of fighting evil and bizarre adventures (hooray for title drop), and yet he has the shortest part to star in, and his body ends up as nothing but a tool for the villain.

I'll second that. Although you have to admit that his death was one of the most impactful for readers/viewers, simply because of how nice the guy was. Also, his rapid-punching moment is the SICKEST one in the whole series.

Yes, I LOVE the Sunlight Yellow Overdrive! I still go back and watch episode 6 to see that moment every now and then

While it's on my mind, here's another one from JoJo, Part 4

Spoiler

Joseph Joestar. Joseph is by far my favorite JoJo, and it feels like the author was determined to knock him down so many pegs that he fractured the Earth's tectonic plates upon landing. When we last saw him in part three, he was a man in his late 60's, yet had barely lost any of the vigor and physical capability from his youth. Fast-forward 10 years later to part 4, and he's now a feeble old man, barely able to hear, and requires a cane to walk. He can barely even use his Stand properly anymore, and he's made out to be a bit of a burden most of the time. While all of that is perfectly normal for a man his age, isn't his mastery of Hamon supposed to have significantly slowed his aging? In addition to becoming so much weaker, we also find out that he was at some point unfaithful to his wife. Cheating on his spouse seems completely out of character for Joseph, who was previously quite noble, even though he didn't always seem that way outwardly. I don't know what made Araki suddenly want to besmirch the reputation of one of the most beloved JoJo's like that, but I guess he did a pretty good job.

 

[Black Reaper]

Seligman from Nymphomaniac
The movie is about the titular Nymphomaniac telling her story to a guy called Seligman, who found her beaten up in an alleyway while some metal played, they are both pretty interesting characters who are pretty fleshed out in the film's long runtime

It was pretty good, it proved to me that a movie can still engage you despite featuring people boning for quite a bit of the runtime, the boning is used to set the tone and stuff and not to give you a boner, unlike some other really crappy films i've seen , like the turd that is Adele's Life, which somehow has a 7 on IMDB

Seligman is revealed to be an Asexual Virgin near the end, he says he doesn't lust for sex, but is kinda curious about it

After the titular Nymphomaniac finishes telling her story, she says that she'd like to stop being a Nymphomaniac since it's caused her a lot of trouble, and she's tired and wants to sleep, she also says Seligman is probably the only friend she's ever had, Seligman approves, and leaves after turning off the telling her she's not going to be disturbed

Spoiler: the movie turns to shit from this point forwards

After the camera lingers a bit on the door, Seligman enters again and he is revealed to be pantsless, he approaches Joe(Nymphomaniac), and attempts to rape her, when she fights back, he says "I don't understand, you've slept with thousands of men", Joe then shoots him and leaves the apartment

Way to ruin a great movie with the last 2 minutes, they destroyed Seligman's character in the end for no good reason, just "Lol he's a virgin"
Easily the most disappointing thing i've seen all year just because of the ending

Spoiler: Storm Dragon's quote

A few months ago, I watched an anime on Netflix called Kaze no Stigma. Overall, I think the show was mediocre at best, and I would have stopped watching it pretty early if I hadn't liked the main character, Kazuma, so much; the dude was a grade-A badass. Short version: He was born to a family of fire mages, but he couldn't firebend, so his family disowned him. He disappears for something like a decade, then returns as a preposterously powerful wind mage who can kick a person's ass without even taking his hands out of his pockets. He was also a snarky troll who had a sarcastic quip for just about everything. The father (or maybe grandfather, I can't remember) of the show's female lead (I can't remember her name, so I'll just call her "Stereotypical Hotheaded Tsundere Would-Be Love Interest") tries to play matchmaker and pair up his (grand?)daughter with Kazuma. Stereotypical Hotheaded Tsundere Would-Be Love Interest, being a stereotypical hotheaded tsundere would-be love interest, pretends to hate Kazuma and lashes out violently at him for the slightest perceived transgression, but she can never lay so much as a finger on him because the dude so vastly outclasses her in combat skills. What's more, Kazuma will say and do things to intentionally make Stereotypical Hotheaded Tsundere Would-Be Love Interest fly off the handle, because her impotent rage amuses him. Here's an example: Kazuma says a thing, S.H.T.W.B.L.I. takes offense and tries to kick him in the face, Kazuma catches her ankle with one hand, then comments on how it might be a bad idea to try to deliver a high kick while wearing a skirt.

So in answer to the original question: I think Kazuma deserved a better anime to star in.

That sounds like an awesome protagonist, i really want to watch that anime now

 

[Tiamattt]

Gohan from DBZ.

First character to go Super Saiyan 2, strongest non-fused character in the Buu arc by Toriyama's word (he's stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku), but if you saw him in anything post DBZ or any of the movies you would never guess.

This kid took on Freeza at 4 years old, attained Super Saiyan at 8, mastered it by 9, attained Super Saiyan 2 that same year and killed a being his father, one of the strongest fighters the universe had ever seen at that point, cold not. After some years of peace and lack of training, he gets a power boost that makes him so strong he's taking on a galaxy destroying monster without even using energy attacks.

What happens to him pretty much every instance onward? Slapped aside in one or two hits. The kid deserves better.

He had the gall to settle down and actually stay with his family instead of ditching them to eat, sleep and train 24/7/365. And in the DB universe if you're not constantly kicking ass or getting your ass kicked you're only getting weaker! (I'm joking but I have a bad feeling that stuff is actually true in their world)

 

[ScreamingViking]

Thane Krios from Mass Effect, specifically his death in the third installment. I'm not upset that he died, that was fitting with the character and had been alluded to ever since we met him. I just object to him being used to make Kai Leng look more impressive and then never mentioned again. After Thane dies you go back to the Normandy and people only want to talk about how you almost shot Kaiden/Ashley, completely ignoring the party member (or even love interest) who just kicked the bucket. Nobody even mentions it.

 

[Reaper195]

Johnson at the end of Halo 3. Such a bullshit way to die for his character by being lasered by 343. I was outright expecting him to go down with a gun in each hand and screaming obscenities at either Flood or Covenant.