Cheap tactics in competitive games

[Something Amyss]

This is something I've always generally wondered: Why is it people go rabid at players that use a cheap tactic in that particular game?

This could be anything from using certain guns (usually rocket launchers) or certain units (I've heard about an early game tactic in Starcraft that's cheap) to basically anything that people see as making the game easy.

I understand why some people find it annoying, as they feel the person doesn't have any skill if they beat them with that strategy, but at the end of the day that's just their egos getting bruised - They got beat by someone that uses the 'best' strategy. After all, if a certain gun makes it easier to kill people in a game where the objective is to kill people, surely it makes more sense to use that gun than to not use it?


In fact, I remember during a game of Battlefield 3 team death match, on an urban map, I was killed by someone sniping from a window, so respawned as an engineer. I couldn't (easily) get close to him, so the most logical thing for me to do was shoot a rocket launcher at the building to destroy his cover. I got kicked after the second rocket launched. The last thing I saw was that part of the building collapse.

So seriously, why is this sort of strategy shunned? And why are other strategies seen as valid? (After all, surely it's a cheap strategy to snipe out of a window if you know people aren't allowed to destroy your cover).

Sounds like you got beat by someone who used the best strategy.

 

[RJ 17]

It's mostly just people complaining because they think that they're better than the "cheap" player. That is: they don't like to lose. For instance, a guy on my friends list is one of the best CoD players I know. He consistantly has a KDR of at least +15. And yet every - single - time he dies he's raging about how stupid or gay or cheap the person that killed him was.

The fact of the matter is that people like him, people that rage at "cheap" tactics are angry because they think they've got the game all figured out. They're the best at what they do. Then them come up against someone who's tactic is something that they can't beat. Be it using a certain gun or item or even just a really good camping spot. They can't defeat a given tactic so clearly it must be some cheap/lame/BS way to win. If they were a TRUE winner, they would be able to do like what the OP said: adapt to a situation and overcome an enemy's tactic with a new strategy of your own. Getting sniped at from a building? Shoot a damn rocket up there. Problem solved. More often than not, the people that complain about cheap tactics are rigidly stuck in their own strategy, and any strategy that their strategy can't work against is therefore, again "cheap/lame/BS".

As for people complaining about guns, my motto has always been "The gun is in the game to be used, not to be looked at." I got to deal with a lot of this back in the days when I played AvP2 on the PC. Marines had plenty of "cheap" weapons, just as the Predators did. And yet you'd still get people going "Waaaaaah! Stop using the shoulder cannon!" or "Waaaaaah! Stop using the smart gun!"

No joke: I once had someone whining about using assault rifles in general in Modern Warfare 2. "Jesus, dude! Try using something other than an assault rifle! They're so fucking cheap!" So I should just ignore an entire section of the arsenal because you're too stupid to avoid getting shot in the face a lot?

 

[ThePenguinKnight]

I look down on people who use cheap tactics but not all are what they seem to be. Camping and sniping out windows is legitimate, there are ways to counter. If there is a way to counter that doesn't involve groups of people then it's valid in my book.

 

[Shinsei-J]

That's not cheap, that's tactical and well played.
This just sounds like a case of butt hurt.
Though some games do have legitimately broken mechanics, that do ruin a game, so those games get patched.

 

[CpT_x_Killsteal]

snip

1. If everyone just used "the best" (cheapest) strategy or the "the best" (most over-powered) gun then the game become a pile of shit. All the other guns and classes and units become useless. These ass-holes just want to take advantage of something like fuckheads and pretty much ruin the game for other people looking for fun.

As for your rocket-launcher thing, nothing that I've noticed is OP or a cheap tactic in BF3. You just got kicked by a little loser who ruins other people's fun because he hates himself.

 

[Gormech]

Legit tactics:
Teaming up with others to hunt down a loner.
Camping
Using a weapon as long as the game remains balanced.
Balancing your stats a certain way.
Hit and run.

Cheap tactics:
Ganking aka teaming up on when there is no chance for the victim to bring in help of their own. i.e. darksouls 3v1.

Spawn camping - Killing a person where you know they will be, with no possible way for them to tactically move. This is killing them within 10 seconds of them spawning, not aiming down the general direction of their base.

Using unbalancing weapons - permanent instalock, pay to win weapons, glitched guns, etc.

Stat glitching - Balancing your stats in a way that the game gives you additional points to upgrade with that would not normally be available to others leveling at the same rate.

 

[Fasckira]

OP's Example

Not cheap buddy, seems pretty legit to me. If anything I'd say the pillock who booted you was the one employing a cheap tactic.

Thing that used to really wind me up was back in the old days of CS when you were playing a clan match and dead players would communicate with their team mates over Vent/ts/rodger wilco about your movements (back when all dead players could follow any live player). People always denied it but it was amazingly obvious when suddenly a live player would turn around and home in on another player

 

[2xDouble]

To paraphrase David Sirlin: If you think something is "cheap" or "overpowered", try playing/using it yourself. You will find out very quickly what exists in the game to counter that, and a properly balanced game will evolve its meta to defeat that particular build/strategy/tactic/weapon/whatever.

Basically, there is no such thing as a "cheap tactic", only tactics that haven't yet been countered.

...unless there is something horribly wrong with the game. While broken game mechanics is a possibility, that's far less likely than most players would think.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

So house rules is CoD MLG?

I don't know anything about CoD but decent tournaments normally have their own rules above an a random game on the internet. Which is often anything goes and many people are plug pulling or using hacks.

 

[aguspal]

Any kind os Sniper Rifle in competitive FPS are cheap in my eyes.


Sorry, I just dont get how people blame Noobtubes, RPGS and whatnot to be cheap when a Sniper Rifle is pretty much the same thing as them, an unavoidable 1 hit kill death. The only difference is that the Sniper Rifles take a bit more skills than those, but the very fact that you have to relly than the Sniper misses to counter makes it VERY cheap. Add Quickscope and its even worse than the noobtube IMO. At least most people dont like the noobtubes, on the other hand snipers are apparently leet pros. NO. specially those that quickscope. I know its suppused to be a 1 hit kill weapon, but dying in 1 hit from nowhere, with nothing to learn from your death except "Damn, thougt luck" its NOT FUN. Nonono, I hate sniper rifles with a pasion. At least in competitive FPS games.

 

[Vivi22]

i agree with you except in one case... the AWP. nothing sucks more than entering a CS game with the opposite team awp camping... that gun is overpowered...

I'd have to disagree. It's powerful, yes. But I used to play on a server where there were no restrictions on the AWP. Half of each team would use it, and these were guys who spent hundreds of hours playing CS and using nothing but the AWP, and if you didn't us it it was no big deal. You could easily hang back and let the snipers whittle each other down for a bit before running in. There's also flash bangs and smoke grenades to help obscure their vision and keep you alive if you're attacking a place with a narrow choke. Multi-pronged attacks are also quite good. All it takes is a little patience and coordination to get in close where the AWP is less effective, and with enough people to make it even less effective. Two things CS is kind of all about.

And we're not even talking full team coordination here. 2-3 guys, maybe 4 tops, can handle a few snipers if they're smart about it.

I know its suppused to be a 1 hit kill weapon, but dying in 1 hit from nowhere, with nothing to learn from your death except "Damn, thougt luck". Nonono, I hate sniper rifles with a pasion. At least in competitive FPS games.

You can look at my above response to see what I think of this argument. I don't believe for one second that if you die to a sniper in every FPS that there was nothing you could learn. Any death from a Sniper immediately teaches you at least two things: first, a possible sniping position, and second, that you were visible from that position. Any well constructed level should have alternate routes and cover to allow you to try and flank a Sniper should you spot them in the position again. Even better if the game includes things like smoke grenades to help you obscure their vision while you move up. If there was literally absolutely nothing you could learn and no way you can move closer to them without hoping that they miss then either the game is poorly made and balanced and not worth playing, or that level is. Either way, I probably wouldn't waste much more of my time with such a game.

As to the topic at hand, I'm of the opinion that using any tactic available to you to win in a competitive game is fair play so long as the developers left it in there.

Now this does not mean that using every tactic available doesn't ruin the fun. There are absolutely tons of games out there with degenerate play and strategies which make what would otherwise be a diverse and interesting strategic game into something with only a handful of viable options, or maybe even only one viable option and results in the experience being a lot less fun. I have no problem with custom servers house ruling things for that reason, though I would argue if you're going to play the vanilla game and complain then you should just find another game. Personally, I just wouldn't want to support a game with degenerate play.

 

[TheSteeleStrap]

It's not cheap if anyone can do it, but camping is annoying...

 

[CrazyBlaze]

I think there are some cheap tactics but I do think a lot of people get mad because they thing they are so good that they shouldn't die. A good example of a cheap tactic would be a weapon that kills in few shots with little recoil and very fast. That would be a cheap weapon to use especially if its easy to get early on in MP and the rest of the weapons are more balanced.

Something like camping isn't a cheap tactic because you can still kill a camper. However if the camper is hiding out in a glitch in a wall that they can shoot through but cant be hit back from then that is a cheap tactic of camping. The way I see it any exploit of a glitch that only benefits a single person and gives them an unfair advantage is cheap.

I mean ACR MP has a couple of places that are kind of glitched to reach and if one person is there others can't get on there. However those sections are in the open and someone can just use the hidden gun or throwing knives to get them out of those areas so well its a beat cheap it isn't a total unfair advantage.

 

[TheSteeleStrap]

Any kind os Sniper Rifle in competitive FPS are cheap in my eyes.


Sorry, I just dont get how people blame Noobtubes, RPGS and whatnot to be cheap when a Sniper Rifle is pretty much the same thing as them, an unavoidable 1 hit kill death. The only difference is that the Sniper Rifles take a bit more skills than those, but the very fact that you have to relly than the Sniper misses to counter makes it VERY cheap. Add Quickscope and its even worse than the noobtube IMO. At least most people dont like the noobtubes, on the other hand snipers are apparently leet pros. NO. specially those that quickscope. I know its suppused to be a 1 hit kill weapon, but dying in 1 hit from nowhere, with nothing to learn from your death except "Damn, thougt luck". Nonono, I hate sniper rifles with a pasion. At least in competitive FPS games.

I mostly hate snipers because I suck with them, I'll admit that. I do agree that I hate quick scoping the most. I can't blame someone for exploiting a game mechanic though. Remove someone's ability to do that, and the game could be more balanced.

 

[Lopende Paddo]

i agree with you except in one case... the AWP. nothing sucks more than entering a CS game with the opposite team awp camping... that gun is overpowered...

I'd have to disagree. It's powerful, yes. But I used to play on a server where there were no restrictions on the AWP. Half of each team would use it, and these were guys who spent hundreds of hours playing CS and using nothing but the AWP, and if you didn't us it it was no big deal. You could easily hang back and let the snipers whittle each other down for a bit before running in. There's also flash bangs and smoke grenades to help obscure their vision and keep you alive if you're attacking a place with a narrow choke. Multi-pronged attacks are also quite good. All it takes is a little patience and coordination to get in close where the AWP is less effective, and with enough people to make it even less effective. Two things CS is kind of all about.

And we're not even talking full team coordination here. 2-3 guys, maybe 4 tops, can handle a few snipers if they're smart about it.

As to the topic at hand, I'm of the opinion that using any tactic available to you to win in a competitive game is fair play so long as the developers left it in there.

Now this does not mean that using every tactic available doesn't ruin the fun. There are absolutely tons of games out there with degenerate play and strategies which make what would otherwise be a diverse and interesting strategic game into something with only a handful of viable options, or maybe even only one viable option and results in the experience being a lot less fun. I have no problem with custom servers house ruling things for that reason, though I would argue if you're going to play the vanilla game and complain then you should just find another game. Personally, I just wouldn't want to support a game with degenerate play.

I still think the awp sucks....

 

[Vivi22]

I still think the awp sucks....

Fair enough. I'm not saying you have to like it. Obviously it encourages a style of team play which may not be everyone's bag. I'm just saying there's always options.

 

[The Wykydtron]

I for one hate ARAM in LoL. Or even all mid without random. It doesn't happen often in matchmade games but I absolutely despise it when it does.

It is so damn boring. Games usually have a certain ebb and flow to them throughout lanes. Say top is a Fiora vs Renekton, now Fiora could go for a lvl 2/3 kill because her free AD plus Riposte's active and her Burst of Speed steroid wrecks people even early on. However if Renekton gets lvl 6 no problem because Fiora decided to play passively, he's suddenly a lot harder to kill and has more damage because of his ultimate.

You can probably tell i'm one of those people who prefer the former.

This kind of flow plus worrying about junglers and the like is fucked over by all mid. It's a lvl 1 uninteresting poke battle and the novelty wears off after a while. At least they added the offical ARAM map to custom games now so this shit can fuck off.

Oh and UMVC3's Dark Wesker. Fuck you Wesker. You suck. I don't mind getting owned when it's someone cool like Dante because some of his combos are damn awesome, yet Wesker has precisely 2 or 3 boring combos all of them including the cheapest spammable self OTG gunshot I have ever seen.

As for proper LoL tactics... Hmm I hate LeBlanc. She is ultimately useless the moment it hits mid/lategame but her entire existance makes all AP mids lives a living hell once she hits 6. She's in that zone where she's annoying but not banworthy. Such a pain.

W,Q,R GG. The W is optional btw. Maybe a quick E if you left them on a thread of health.

I have less worries about counterpicks to be honest, i'll be frank, when you're playing 800ish ELO counterpicking isn't very effective because individual skill gaps are common.

I have a friend who firstpicks Lux every damn game and you can see the other team going through the possible counters that ultimately come to nothing because he has the best Lux I have ever seen. He regularly beats his counters, in fact the one time i've seen him lose lane properly was against a LeBlanc and he still bounced back lategame with full stacks of Soulstealer.

2pro4u

 

[TakeshiLive]

I think there's a fundamental flaw in the design of a game's multiplayer if there are cheap tactics that can be easily exploited.