Cheap Thrills and the Survival Horror Genre

[MassiveGeek]

I have to admit, I HATE playing horror games, mostly because jump out scares always get me, being more paranoid than I should.
Although it's easy to get over in games where you're eventually handed a "kills fucking EVERYTHING" gun, in games where you're essentially helpless, like Amnesia, the fear factor stays with you through the game because you are constantly worried some monster or something is going to sneak up on you and rip your liver out through your ear.
I do think overall that the horror genre is one of the more inventive and challenging one's out there because they really need to think of atmosphere and design a lot more to set the right mood, because if they don't then they won't be scary and fail. As well as the mechanics, if you're fucking Duke Nukem and can punch everything into a red, slimey pulp then most of the fear factor goes away.

I do agree though, I think the horror genre really might be heading in a good direction.

 

[Rawne1980]

Parasite Eve and Silent Hill are the only 2 games i'd class as survival horror that i've played.

Mainly because they were the first I played and were a bit creepy at the time.

Dead Space isn't really horror. It's a shooter with the odd monster shouting "boo" as it jumps out at you. And it happens a lot.

They seem to be replacing suspense and atmosphere with shock and gore and while I do enjoy the games they just don't grip me in perpetual terror.

It's what you don't see that is usually the "scary" part, your imagination can make far more wierd shit up than what you see.

It's like your younger sibling jumping out to scare you, it's okay the first few times but after that you just want to punch him.

 

[krazykidd]

I played Amnesia: The Dark Descent at a friend's house. It was very atmospheric and very scary, but I had no reason to continue playing, as the story was not particularly engaging, and the gameplay wasn't particularly fun. The fact is, a game can only be just scary up to a certain point before people just stop caring. Dead Space 2, on the other hand has been quite a good scare, while giving me a reason to keep playing (good old blowing-the-shit-out-of-monsters motivation). The gunplay is varied enough to make each encounter fun, while the omnipresent lack of ammunition (assuming you're playing on a suitable difficulty level) builds up an atmosphere of oppression and survivalist desperation. In fact, the points where Dead Space 2 becomes least scary are the points where you have no control, as those are the points where you have the underlying mindset that the developers aren't going to do a thing to you, because you have nothing to fight back with and nowhere to run. When the game gives you action, it becomes quite a fright, because Isaac's continued existence is in your hands, and you are drawn into the desperate panic of trying to keep him alive.

All in all, the ability to interact is what makes games a more effective horror medium, as the players are responsible for keeping themselves alive and well. When developers focus too much on atmosphere building, and not enough on keeping the player's survival in their own hands, the player has no further reason to play, the game's efforts collapse, and the horror falls flat.

Dead Space 2 may not be a survival horror game we've come to expect from the old days, but it excels at what it does, drawing the player in with the promise of big fleshy targets, then jumping on them with some nice you're-the-target-now twists of fate, and I, for one, loved it. If that means that I have no taste in survival horror and that I'm just a consoletard who just wants quick vapid distractions, so be it, but at least I'll have fun whilst getting the shit scared out of my self.

But what was it that was scaring you, what does isaac have to he afraid of ? He has enough weapons to take on anything . I took liked dead space , dont get we wrong, and it was a very fun game , but there was little to no reason to he scares , unless you went about shooting bullets into a wall there no way to be overwhelmed. I rarely went into a room thinking " if there are monsters in there will i be able to make it?" and in my opinion that adds to the horror survival aspect , not knowing if you'll be able to make it out alive . The number of times in a older game like RE 2 i thought to myself " dammit i need some bullets what do i do if theres a boss coming up? " or " shit my health is low gotta be carful or im screwed " due to the lack of ammo and herbs .

My point is , in older survival horror games , you almost always survived by the skin of your teeth , which is scary , because you could have easily have died with one little mistake , so called survival horrow now doesn't have that stress that adds to the experience . Not to say they aren't fun , because they are , but they are too overpowered to make you feel like theres an actual threat on your life.

 

[The Dreamer]

But what was it that was scaring you, what does isaac have to he afraid of ? He has enough weapons to take on anything . I took liked dead space , dont get we wrong, and it was a very fun game , but there was little to no reason to he scares , unless you went about shooting bullets into a wall there no way to be overwhelmed. I rarely went into a room thinking " if there are monsters in there will i be able to make it?" and in my opinion that adds to the horror survival aspect , not knowing if you'll be able to make it out alive . The number of times in a older game like RE 2 i thought to myself " dammit i need some bullets what do i do if theres a boss coming up? " or " shit my health is low gotta be carful or im screwed " due to the lack of ammo and herbs .

My point is , in older survival horror games , you almost always survived by the skin of your teeth , which is scary , because you could have easily have died with one little mistake , so called survival horrow now doesn't have that stress that adds to the experience . Not to say they aren't fun , because they are , but they are too overpowered to make you feel like theres an actual threat on your life.

Three words; Suitable difficulty level. 'nuff said.

 

[Stall]

I think survival horror is just becoming horror. There's nothing wrong with that. Look at film: you can combine horror with virtually any other genre out there, and it not only works, but probably exists to some extent already. Film has shown us that horror is a very diverse genre, so I don't really see much of a problem with where horror games are heading. Have they lost the "survival" element? Sure. But action horror is as much horror as survival horror.

 

[xPrometheusx]

Three words; Suitable difficulty level. 'nuff said.

Well... yes and no. I'm not sold on that being a good argument for Dead Space, because the difficulty level, like with so many games now, just changes the enemies' health and your ammunition amount. It doesn't change the environment to make it scarier, it changes the numbers around. And while this works for awhile, because it doesn't change the game, eventually you're faced with a point in the game where it's impossible because there isn't an easier way to do it.

Let me use part of the DS2 campaign as an example.

About a fourth/fifth of the way into the game, you make your way into some church, and you have to fight, like, thirty little kiddie zombies that will tear your head off if they get to you. Up until this point, I could say that the game's harder difficulty made the game scarier. But the sequence isn't designed to be part of a horror game, it's designed to be part of a shooter. It isn't scary, it's just difficult. In the 'normal' level difficulty (whatever level that may be to you individually), you kill them, removing the 'shooter' atmosphere. But on the harder difficulties, you'll die again, and again, and again, because the harder difficulty that made things harder to kill individually made things harder to kill in groups as well.

So, no, I don't think that should be a permanent solution to making games scarier, or the reason the games are scary, though, admittedly, I was the first one to bring it up as an option on this thread.

 

[Miggiwoo]

That's less fear, and more stress. And yes, modern horror games are stressful (dead space, RE5, etc). But not really scary.

Yes, I was alert and on guard the whole game, but not scared. Because I knew that whatever came at me, I could handle with no trouble. All that mattered was that I stay alert, and not get caught by surprise, and I would have no trouble. So yes, it was stressful. But not scary.


...I played the Demo for Amnesia for about 15 minutes, got to the first enemy, snuck around a bit and had to CLOSE THE GAME because I just couldn't take it. I didn't know where it was. I knew if I ran into it I was !@#$ed. I expected death around every corner, and every time I didn't see it, I got even more scared because I had no idea where it was. Hell, I was even nervous when watching a friend play it. I was so close to shouting at him "What the hell are you doing?! There are monsters around! Don't run out with your lantern on! THEY'LL SEE YOU!!!"

Forgive the paraphrasing, but there are a few issues here. First of all, I have never been genuinely frightened in a game. Fear is a personal response to a perceived threat to ones safety (safety being multidimensional, not just physical safety). 'Stress' as you put is a reaction to a circumstance where there is a high chance of a negative outcome. Both are anxiety type emotions, and they have remarkably similar physical symptoms (look it up, it's true).

I'm a fan of Yahtzee, but when it comes to Survival Horror, I almost totally disagree with him. Fear or stress is a response to a stimulus, we cannot be afraid of something that we have no reason to expect is there. We cannot scare ourselves unless we are shown that there is something to be afraid of.

One issue to be considered is the difference in ages. When I was a child, I was scared of Michael Jackson's 'Thriller'. Now I laugh at horror movies. I was about 14 when I played RE:1, and I was not once genuinely scared of it, but I did feel the constant pressure put on by the game, and I remember the save room music being like a fresh breeze in a dark tunnel.

I think the big issue appears to be that protagonists in modern games are 'too badass'. I have always wondered about people who say this sort of thing. It's similar to people who complain about games being short. Difficulty levels are there to increase the risk of failure for more experienced players. Most people in this thread have been playing survival horror games for years, and I for one can honestly say that on max difficulty in Dead Space I never once felt as though I could kill anything.

I think survival horror is just becoming horror. There's nothing wrong with that. Look at film: you can combine horror with virtually any other genre out there, and it not only works, but probably exists to some extent already. Film has shown us that horror is a very diverse genre, so I don't really see much of a problem with where horror games are heading. Have they lost the "survival" element? Sure. But action horror is as much horror as survival horror.

I agree that the survival part is probably diminished on lower difficulties, and as a result much of the intensity would drain away. Anyone who suggests the horror in the previous 2 generations is better than in the current gen is really looking through nostalgia glasses, there are some truly hideous and horrific moments in modern games that are almost totally a result of HD graphics. Hunters on PS:1 were just lumps of green, barely identifiable, necromorphs in Dead Space are just hideous.

 

[The Dreamer]

Well... yes and no. I'm not sold on that being a good argument for Dead Space, because the difficulty level, like with so many games now, just changes the enemies' health and your ammunition amount. It doesn't change the environment to make it scarier, it changes the numbers around. And while this works for awhile, because it doesn't change the game, eventually you're faced with a point in the game where it's impossible because there isn't an easier way to do it.

Let me use part of the DS2 campaign as an example.

About a fourth/fifth of the way into the game, you make your way into some church, and you have to fight, like, thirty little kiddie zombies that will tear your head off if they get to you. Up until this point, I could say that the game's harder difficulty made the game scarier. But the sequence isn't designed to be part of a horror game, it's designed to be part of a shooter. It isn't scary, it's just difficult. In the 'normal' level difficulty (whatever level that may be to you individually), you kill them, removing the 'shooter' atmosphere. But on the harder difficulties, you'll die again, and again, and again, because the harder difficulty that made things harder to kill individually made things harder to kill in groups as well.

So, no, I don't think that should be a permanent solution to making games scarier, or the reason the games are scary, though, admittedly, I was the first one to bring it up as an option on this thread.

So the game gets incredibly difficult, but it's never unsurvivable, just make sure to try new tactics when things get annoying and you can usually find a way to get by. Worst case scenario, lower the difficulty and have a brief bit of fun instakilling people with punches while you restore ammo and health, then switch back. Besides, aren't difficulty spikes an issue with any survival horror game, non-shooter ones included?

 

[mstickle]

Visually Dead Space is a fantastic set up for a horror game, where it falls flat for me is knowing for a fact that there will be a monster in the next room. Nothing is going to stalk me quietly for god knows how long because it's all "bang, crash, boo" and their appearance is so predictable.

The only part Dead space 2 did well was:

Spoiler

When you enter the Ishimura and it's ages before you see an enemy, you know it's coming, but for a while it doesn't so when it actually does it's a bit of a shock.

That's how it should always be - unexpected.

 

[xPrometheusx]

So the game gets incredibly difficult, but it's never unsurvivable, just make sure to try new tactics when things get annoying and you can usually find a way to get by. Worst case scenario, lower the difficulty and have a brief bit of fun instakilling people with punches while you restore ammo and health, then switch back. Besides, aren't difficulty spikes an issue with any survival horror game, non-shooter ones included?

Yes and no. A good horror game should be scary regardless of difficulty, but difficulty spikes should be expected. My issue is, the difficulty spikes shouldn't be HARDER because you want to make the rest of the game SCARIER.

And once again, I post the Captcha window. There's more than two words there, stupid... grr.

 

[Miggiwoo]

Captcha is so bad. They should at least be real words or letters you don't need a degree in ASCII to write.

Yes and no. A good horror game should be scary regardless of difficulty, but difficulty spikes should be expected. My issue is, the difficulty spikes shouldn't be HARDER because you want to make the rest of the game SCARIER.

So how do you make a full length AAA title with a meaningful(ish) story scary? No need for examples, just describe the narrative features/mechanics if you want.

I'm really interested in ideas, not just criticisms (not having a stab at people here, but I'd like some ideas beyond 'be more like Amnesia' etc).