Chivalry

[ham and red bull]

Those old traditions of holding a door for a lady, standing up when talking to a lady, taking off your hat when in an elevator with a lady... you catch my drift. I'm talking about chivalry.

First introduced as a sign of respect to the "weaker sex", which is why many people, men, feminists think these traditions are outdated and sexist. I have also witnessed many escapists complaining about chivalry in regards to equal rights, saying there should be a similar code of conduct for women, or none at all.

I would consider myself old fashioned enough to partake in these traditions, but how does the escapist community, you guys, feel about it? An extra question to the female population of the site, do you enjoy seeing men follow these rules of conduct, or do you think chivalry is outdated and unpractical in every day life?

 

[LaughingAtlas]

I stick by the "don't hit a lady" part, but then, I'm a pacifist. Other than that, indiscriminate niceness seems to work pretty well.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

I think it's nice.

A lot of girls enjoy little feelings of being spoiled and treated like a princess from time to time and if its a girl who is worth spoiling then why not.

 

[Aethren]

You call that chivalry?

Chivalry is learning how to joust while wearing a full suit of armor. Chivalry is owning a castle and having peasants live and work for you. Chivalry is participating in tournaments to win gold and prizes.

 

[Katherine Kerensky]

Eh, it is just called manners now. Hold the door for someone, take your hat off, stand while addressing someone, etc. All just manners, it doesn't matter about the sex or gender of the person in question that the actions are towards.
No need for chivalry, just manners. Show that we are civilised. Or at least kind to strangers >.>

 

[Torrasque]

I am polite to people, and "chivalrous" to people, and don't really care if its a fem or not.
Although, I am a sucker for female anatomy, and its mind bending ways...

Edit:

I stick by the "don't hit a lady" part, but then, I'm a pacifist. Other than that, indiscriminate niceness seems to work pretty well.

I try very very hard to stick to that as well, it just seems morally wrong to hit a lady.
But I've read enough books, seen enough movies, and seen enough females that don't classify as 'ladies' to be able to defend myself if faced with a female aggressor.

Consider this:
A person garbed in nondescript black clothing so you cannot tell their gender, attacks you.
Do you assume it is a guy? Assume it is a girl? Do not care?
Personally, I assume it is a guy, treat them like a guy, so my conscience doesn't get in the way.
Obviously, I am still going to defend myself against a girl, but my conscience would definitely get in the way and be all "ZOMG ITS A GIRL! DON'T HIT HER!" stupid conscience...

 

[Normeo]

surely it would just be better to be polite to everyone, man or woman. wow I've turned into a massive hippy in my old age. Plus aint chivilry just an old pissin up the wall game?

 

[Rascarin]

I think chivalry as an expectation of men, from a woman, is wrong. She shouldn't want equal treatment AND to be treated specially.

However, I don't see why a man can't think "this woman is my equal, but I'm going to be chivalrous anyway". Ffrom what little I know of heterosexual relations, women tend to see chivalry as terribly romantic - so a chivalrous dude scores points for that.

Then again, I don't see why we can't ALL act chivalrous (is that even a word? meh). Holding doors, etc, is basic politeness. I'm a woman, and I'll hold a door for anyone I see coming through it behind me, male or female.

If I'm on a date with a girl, I might do things like pull her chair out for her, but thats just so I seem thoughtful, not because she expects it of me.

... I might be rambling. Hopefully that makes sense.

 

[aldt]

It's dead. Equality has out dated this.

You can have either chivalry or equality. Having both is superiority.

We don't have equality. That is, unless equality is a sequence of egregious imbalances, with men and women alternately being at disadvantages.
Chivalry is, without a doubt, dead, though. A friend once told me a (somewhat brief) anecdote, where he held a heavy door open for a stranger, and was berated because he was apparently making a derogatory assumption about her capabilities. As John Cleese once pointed out, standing in a crowded room and announcing that "all women take things personally" will result in at least 4 immediate replies of "well, I don't!".
/blatant misogynism

 

[Madara XIII]

I think it's nice.

A lot of girls enjoy little feelings of being spoiled and treated like a princess from time to time and if its a girl who is worth spoiling then why not.

Quite. I still practice it despite it being claimed "dead". I can't help but feel the need to be that way. Probably how I was raised, but it doesn't stop me from being polite to everyone else as well. I just show my manners to males and females differently.

 

[JUMBO PALACE]

I think it's nice.

A lot of girls enjoy little feelings of being spoiled and treated like a princess from time to time and if its a girl who is worth spoiling then why not.

Yeah doing little things can go a long way with girls.

As for me, I just try to be nice to everyone. I hold the door for the person behind me and other things like that.

 

[DEAD34345]

I hold the door for people in general, male or female, though I've never heard about any rules about hats in lifts... It's difficult to know whether or not to be chivalrous to women in most cases, since you never know whether they will just think it's a nice thing to do, or will be offended by it.

 

[Woodsey]

MORE FUCKING CHIVALRY THREADS?!

Most of us are 15-20 year-old guys, this obsession with "chivalry" is not fucking natural. Either be polite to everyone, or don't actively be a dick to everyone.

I'm sure it makes you all feel better when you inevitably turn around and cry about women all hating nice guys (and I have no doubt the cross over between the chivalry and "they hate nice guys!" crowd is huge), but it's just getting weird now.

I long for the day when we can all act our age, and rate celebrities based on their body parts.

*SIGH*

/rant

 

[Torrasque]

Wikipedia:

Chivalry is a term related to the medieval (middle ages) institution of knighthood which has an aristocratic military origin of individual training and service to others. It is usually associated with ideals of knightly virtues, honor and courtly love: "the source of the chivalrous idea," remarked Johan Huizinga, who devoted several chapters of The Waning of the Middle Ages to chivalry and its effects on the medieval character, "is pride aspiring to beauty, and formalized pride gives rise to a conception of honour, which is the pole of noble life."

Dictionary.com:

1. the sum of the ideal qualifications of a knight, including courtesy, generosity, valor, and dexterity in arms.
2. the rules and customs of medieval knighthood.
3. the medieval system or institution of knighthood.
4. a group of knights.
5. gallant warriors or gentlemen: fair ladies and noble chivalry.
6. Archaic . a chivalrous act; gallant deed.

So Chivalry is sexist, no matter how you analyze it.
Ok, so for me at least, and most of western society, chivalry is in fact dead.

It's dead. Equality has out dated this.

You can have either chivalry or equality. Having both is superiority.

We don't have equality. That is, unless equality is a sequence of egregious imbalances, with men and women alternately being at disadvantages.
Chivalry is, without a doubt, dead, though. A friend once told me a (somewhat brief) anecdote, where he held a heavy door open for a stranger, and was berated because he was apparently making a derogatory assumption about her capabilities. As John Cleese once pointed out, standing in a crowded room and announcing that "all women take things personally" will result in at least 4 immediate replies of "well, I don't!".
/blatant misogynism

Very well said.
I love doing the social experiment of holding a door open for an empty hallway, and waiting to see if someone will run up to the door to hold it for... no one?
At my University, the longest I've had to hold the door is 6 seconds.
Obviously, don't hold it for an actually empty hallway, or you'll be holding it for a while...

 

[Torrasque]

MORE FUCKING CHIVALRY THREADS?!

Most of us are 15-20 year-old guys, this obsession with "chivalry" is not fucking natural. Either be polite to everyone, or don't actively be a dick to everyone.

I'm sure it makes you all feel better when you inevitably turn around and cry about women all hating nice guys (and I have no doubt the cross over between the chivalry and "they hate nice guys!" crowd is huge), but it's just getting weird now.

I long for the day when we can all act our age, and rate celebrities based on their body parts.

*SIGH*

/rant

I didn't really think anything he has said is obsessing about how chivalrous guys are superior to any other guy.
Just an honest question about whether it is actually around or not.
Did you even read what he said?
Furthermore:

 

[Brian Hansen]

Equality doesn't matter when the chance to feel special is on the line. Since the 90's (and maybe earlier) the most important thing that teachers and sports programs are supposed to provide is self-esteem (in most of the US). There are those that may pretend to resent chivalric actions on the basis of equality, but in reality all of humanity is just waiting for someone to make them feel good and special. As for chivalry inspiring superiority among men, I find that funny. "Let me debase myself to show how superior I am." That doesn't make sense, if that were true then let all the world's slaves rejoice that they are superior to those who make their lives terrible.

I grant that the rhetoric existed, but the reason why it worked is because of its Christian base. In general, Christians should feel good about following chivalry because it follows one of the tenets of Christianity: service. It makes men feel good to do things for women and women responded. Women still respond to it. At least those women I know all say that a man possessing chivalry is a good thing.

As for equality, equality is a pipe dream. Unless you can force everyone, everywhere to possess the same talents, interests, and physical characteristics, then real equality can't exist. What there can be is respect for others, which chivalry provides. Since it was based loosely on medieval chivalry (which was just for men and included things like loyalty and brotherhood), the chivalry that we have now is really a system of respect (it focuses on women because of the Victorian belief that women were the centers of virtue and needed protection).