Chris Cornell died

[bartholen_v1legacy]

While I can't say this really shakes my world one way or the other, Audioslave's "Be Yourself" struck a very strong chord with me during my teenage years amidst a hurricane of insecurity and feeling shunned by others. I listened to that song so many times. Here's to that, one more time, with feeling:

 

[Darth Rosenberg]

I've never been a fan (nor a critic, btw. I liked some tracks well enough but it's not really my thang), but he had a distinctive voice and he/they certainly carved out success and a good following, so fair play. Michael Mann's [rather underrated] Collateral always comes to mind, as Shadow On The Sun was used very prominently in it, which is a pretty decent track.

Honestly, I'm rather surprised it was suicide. Didn't he just complete a show the same day? They just started a tour, too. The idea that he killed himself bothers me. I had assumed it was an overdose or something a bit more natural (even if he was a bit young for death by natural causes).

Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

Also a rather shitty thing to do to your family, as I believe he had three children.

 

[Neurotic Void Melody]

That's tragic. Another respected grunge voice gone to the darkest depths of the mind. Weird as have been experimenting with black hole sun last few days. Although Audioslave didn't get out as many standout songs as Soundgarden, he definitely got to fine-tune those vocals to a and soulful degree.

Spoiler: Might as well add personal faves that are still regularly practiced for their theraputic qualities...

Accoustic isn't always better, but maybe, just maybe for this one.


This one kinda is pleasant. Though took a while to appreciate for some reason.

Also a rather shitty thing to do to your family, as I believe he had three children.

That's not how it works with suicidal tendencies, when a person is at that point, they believe the world, including their loved ones, to be better off without them around. They believe themselves to be nothing but a burden alive, that it's a better long-term alternative. It's not something simple to judge like so without understanding.

 

[bjj hero]

I thought Chris had come out unscathed. Outwardly he seemed so together compared to his peers like Lane or Scott.

You can never tell what is happening behind closed doors though.

 

[Ravenbom]

I live in Silverlake which is the LA's Brooklyn and hipster central and yesterday morning after I stopped playing Fell on Black Days, I could hear other people in my little complex playing Soundgarden, Black Hole Sun specifically.
It was like a hipster funeral dirge.

 

[Darth Rosenberg]

That's not how it works with suicidal tendencies, when a person is at that point, they believe the world, including their loved ones, to be better off without them around. They believe themselves to be nothing but a burden alive, that it's a better long-term alternative. It's not something simple to judge like so without understanding.

Empathy has to roll both ways, however. He still effectively chose to traumatise his children. Particularly in this age when it's easier than ever to seek aid for mental health, my sympathies are with those he deprived of a father and husband.

 

[Neurotic Void Melody]

Empathy has to roll both ways, however. He still effectively chose to traumatise his children. Particularly in this age when it's easier than ever to seek aid for mental health, my sympathies are with those he deprived of a father and husband.

You're expecting logic from an illogical problem. Hence why it's usually referred to as a mental 'illness' ...why not just expect a person with a broken foot to do a mile sprint just because you currently are capable.

 

[Zen Bard]

Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

Also a rather shitty thing to do to your family, as I believe he had three children.

Empathy has to roll both ways, however. He still effectively chose to traumatise his children. Particularly in this age when it's easier than ever to seek aid for mental health, my sympathies are with those he deprived of a father and husband.

And like clockwork, the armchair psychoanalysis and empty platitudes arrive.

Soundgarden fan here. This is a sad day. RIP Chris.

Exactly. Especially since his wife and family are disputing the suicide theory stating there was nothing in his recent behavior to indicate he was depressed.

http://people.com/music/chris-cornells-family-response-suicide-ativan/

And I'd very much like to believe this since nothing in the thirty years I've been a Soundgarden fan has EVER gave me the impression Cornell was the suicidal type.

Cobain, sure. Staley and Wieland, absolutely. But Cornell always had that laid back swagger of "Gimme what you got, ************. Sure don't mind the change. Just stay off of my wave. I'll wallow in the dirt and mud with all the other pigs."

Cornell was way more the Voice of My Generation than Cobain ever was.

Thanks for the music, Chris. Give heaven hell.

 

[Scarytown_v1legacy]

Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

Also a rather shitty thing to do to your family, as I believe he had three children.

Empathy has to roll both ways, however. He still effectively chose to traumatise his children. Particularly in this age when it's easier than ever to seek aid for mental health, my sympathies are with those he deprived of a father and husband.

And like clockwork, the armchair psychoanalysis and empty platitudes arrive.

Soundgarden fan here. This is a sad day. RIP Chris.

Exactly. Especially since his wife and family are disputing the suicide theory stating there was nothing in his recent behavior to indicate he was depressed.

http://people.com/music/chris-cornells-family-response-suicide-ativan/

And I'd very much like to believe this since nothing in the thirty years I've been a Soundgarden fan has EVER gave me the impression Cornell was the suicidal type.

Cobain, sure. Staley and Wieland, absolutely. But Cornell always had that laid back swagger of "Gimme what you got, ************. Sure don't mind the change. Just stay off of my wave. I'll wallow in the dirt and mud with all the other pigs."

Cornell was way more the Voice of My Generation than Cobain ever was.

Thanks for the music, Chris. Give heaven hell.

Truthfully I've been a bit worried when the news came out that he hung himself, especially after his family have been trying to refute the suicide report and the fact that he didn't seem to give any indication that he was suicidal. If anyone is familiar with INXS will notice similarities between his death and Michael Hutchence. If that is indeed how he died, then it would put the family in a hard spot between trying to disprove the idea of him being unhappy and on the edge to him dying accidentally in an embarrassing way. Of course this is all a big theory on my part, so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Darth Rosenberg]

You're expecting logic from an illogical problem. Hence why it's usually referred to as a mental 'illness' ...why not just expect a person with a broken foot to do a mile sprint just because you currently are capable.

And like clockwork, the armchair psychoanalysis and empty platitudes arrive.

None of which remotely disproves anything I said, if he did indeed kill himself.

Discussing the ethics of suicide in a thread of the recently deceased is tasteless, granted... But I'm not apologetic in the slightest about placing the lion's share of my sympathy with those left behind.

Exactly. Especially since his wife and family are disputing the suicide theory stating there was nothing in his recent behavior to indicate he was depressed.

http://people.com/music/chris-cornells-family-response-suicide-ativan/

And I'd very much like to believe this since nothing in the thirty years I've been a Soundgarden fan has EVER gave me the impression Cornell was the suicidal type.

Is there a reliable way to tell who the 'type' is, though? Often with various mental health issues there are no types at all, that's the point.

 

[Saltyk]

Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

Also a rather shitty thing to do to your family, as I believe he had three children.

Empathy has to roll both ways, however. He still effectively chose to traumatise his children. Particularly in this age when it's easier than ever to seek aid for mental health, my sympathies are with those he deprived of a father and husband.

And like clockwork, the armchair psychoanalysis and empty platitudes arrive.

Soundgarden fan here. This is a sad day. RIP Chris.

Exactly. Especially since his wife and family are disputing the suicide theory stating there was nothing in his recent behavior to indicate he was depressed.

http://people.com/music/chris-cornells-family-response-suicide-ativan/

And I'd very much like to believe this since nothing in the thirty years I've been a Soundgarden fan has EVER gave me the impression Cornell was the suicidal type.

Cobain, sure. Staley and Wieland, absolutely. But Cornell always had that laid back swagger of "Gimme what you got, ************. Sure don't mind the change. Just stay off of my wave. I'll wallow in the dirt and mud with all the other pigs."

Cornell was way more the Voice of My Generation than Cobain ever was.

Thanks for the music, Chris. Give heaven hell.

There are several problems with that line of reasoning. First, I don't think a person necessarily has to be depressed to commit suicide. Second, his family likely has incentive to argue against it being a suicide. And not just financial, they likely don't want to believe that he could kill himself. Third, there's no reason to think that you would know his feelings even if you are a huge fan.

As I said in my original post, I am bothered by the idea that he killed himself. I just don't see a logical reason that he would do so. But no one ever said that people are being logical when they kill themselves.

 

[Neurotic Void Melody]

]None of which remotely disproves anything I said, if he did indeed kill himself.

Discussing the ethics of suicide in a thread of the recently deceased is tasteless, granted... But I'm not apologetic in the slightest about placing the lion's share of my sympathy with those left behind.

Ok...what do you think you were trying to prove here? No one cares how more ethical your words may have been, this isn't some mathematical proof of how good you are a person for your views, for fuck's sake. No one wants an apology for your ignorance. The damage is done, there is no high ground. What experience do you even have with this?

 

[Tsun Tzu]

He and a few others made up...a lot of my formative years in terms of acquiring musical taste.

I'm honestly not all that surprised by this outcome either. Tortured folks make for tortured performers.

I do hope he's somewhere better, at least. Spent a good bit of yesterday jamming to Audioslave and Soundgarden. But eh, another reminder of mortality, I suppose.

 

[bjj hero]

None of which remotely disproves anything I said, if he did indeed kill himself.

Discussing the ethics of suicide in a thread of the recently deceased is tasteless, granted... But I'm not apologetic in the slightest about placing the lion's share of my sympathy with those left behind.

The veracity of your claim is not in question. Your judgment is. You said yourself that what you did was tasteless. But you did it anyway.

Have you ever had suicidal thoughts? Ever attempted it? Ever had a friend or relative attempt or succeed at it? Ever had to talk someone down who is suicidal? Slogans like, "Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem," may give people the warm and fuzzies and make them feel smart. But slogans have no substance and will never be a replacement for proper education.

You want to show real empathy and sympathy? Don't make a thread about someone else's death about you.

Thank you, I was about to post this, I do not think I would have worded it so calmly. I'd argue putting it all on Chris makes him feel better about himself, death brings up odd feelings in all of us. If it was the fault of Chris, something he can avoid, then it can never happen to him and he can go back to cheetos and Xbox.

 

[Darth Rosenberg]

Ok...what do you think you were trying to prove here?

I'm posting in a forum? Replying to comments by other people? That's kinda what people do on forums. If I have any broad point at all, skip to the paragraphs following the slogans quote below.

The veracity of your claim is not in question. Your judgment is. You said yourself that what you did was tasteless. But you did it anyway.

See above. Shouldn't these issues be discussed at all? People taking their lives has consequences, and those need to be addressed as well.

Have you ever had suicidal thoughts? Ever attempted it? Ever had a friend or relative attempt or succeed at it? Ever had to talk someone down who is suicidal?

Interesting questions (which I'd reply with a mix of yes and no's) given you then say---

You want to show real empathy and sympathy? Don't make a thread about someone else's death about you.

---where you're making it about me.

Slogans like, "Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem," may give people the warm and fuzzies and make them feel smart. But slogans have no substance and will never be a replacement for proper education.

Those weren't my words, but I'm fairly sure their author didn't ever suggest one-liners were a "replacement" for any form of education. However, phrases that can reductively represent profound thoughts and truths do have value in communication as basic shorthand for complex issues. If there's a natural place for them, it's surely a quite short-form forum thread.

If his wife is correct that certain medicines contributed to his final choice, then fair enough, it's a more complicated matter and a more, er, conventional tragedy (for want of a better term). But there is a pervasive culture of quite disturbing romanticism surrounding suicide (particularly of artists/creators), and of focusing too much on the individual as opposed to those they abandoned and traumatised. It's that which I object to, and which Saltyk's remark brought to mind.

I don't see any romanticism of it here, true, but shouldn't the onus of sympathy be with those left alive? Is it so wrong to ask that question?

I'd argue putting it all on Chris makes him feel better about himself, death brings up odd feelings in all of us. If it was the fault of Chris, something he can avoid, then it can never happen to him and he can go back to cheetos and Xbox.

Ah, some counter-psychoanalysis mixed in with what appears to be inane PC master race-itis? Nicely random of you...

 

[bjj hero]

I'd argue putting it all on Chris makes him feel better about himself, death brings up odd feelings in all of us. If it was the fault of Chris, something he can avoid, then it can never happen to him and he can go back to cheetos and Xbox.

Ah, some counter-psychoanalysis mixed in with what appears to be inane PC master race-itis? Nicely random of you...

Why is it always the xbox that offends people rather than the cheetos?

You said yourself, your post was in poor taste, you chose to do so anyway.