Citizen-Con 2015 (Star Citizen)

[Flammablezeus]

I'm not even going to comment on what I think of the game or development process so far, but I do want to comment on one thing; The people complaining about the game because of how little polished gameplay they've seen are certainly acting weird. I mean, on one hand you've got Star Citizen, a hugely ambitious game with an incredible budget that hasn't been in development for that long, at least compared to similarly (yet usually less) ambitious games that we don't see anything of until they're near completion.

On the other hand we have Fallout 4 (as a currently popular example.) It's big, ambitious, has probably been in development for much longer than Star Citizen and is getting released in less than three weeks. Yet we've seen so little of the game that we can't judge at all what kind of state it's in. Still, most people have nothing but positive things to say about it.

Yes, it's hard to get excited about a game that's so far from completion, but to lose all hope because its unfinished features are unfinished? I think that's just a tad silly.

 

[DefunctTheory]

On the other hand we have Fallout 4 (as a currently popular example.) It's big, ambitious, has probably been in development for much longer than Star Citizen and is getting released in less than three weeks. Yet we've seen so little of the game that we can't judge at all what kind of state it's in. Still, most people have nothing but positive things to say about it.

Well, its Bethesda. Which means the following:

1. They have a long track record of good games.
2. They did not take money from people prior to creating the game, except for pre-orders of the game itself.
3. They've built up a ton of good will over the years. Just a fuck ton of good will. They make good games, do fun stuff, give away games when fans do cool shit... they're just cool.
4. Everyone expects the game to be pretty fucked on release. Bethesda can't release a bug free game, and everyone knows it. But, we KNOW that. We don't need to argue about that being the case.

I mean, if you are nervous about Fallout 4, or think somethings wrong with it, I certainly wouldn't fault you for it. Details have been a bit light (Though, to be honest, I've loved everything I've seen).

Cloud Imperium is a new company, and its director might as well be new to the industry, for how long he's been absent.

The rest of your post I wont respond to, as it would simply be a rehash of what I'm sure you've read from me and others already. Just wanted to reply to the Fallout 4 bit.

 

[Corralis]

I was just thinking, maybe all the hate from Star Citizen is coming from all the console peasents that will never be able to play it?

 

[BigM]

"They talked about Star Citizen because the whole Serek Dmart thing made it over here too and the guys jumped at the chance to ask an actual insider about his opinion. The consultant was very polite (he wants to keep working in the industry after all) yet managed to state in very polite terms that what Chris Roberts has planned for Star Citizen is utterly impossible"

http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=22591.msg1389251#msg1389251

I really do wish CR would release the game soon so we can put this all to bed once and for all. Just who can we believe, the more I research this game the more I read about it just can't be done. This is sad and really hard to believe.

 

[Corralis]

"They talked about Star Citizen because the whole Serek Dmart thing made it over here too and the guys jumped at the chance to ask an actual insider about his opinion. The consultant was very polite (he wants to keep working in the industry after all) yet managed to state in very polite terms that what Chris Roberts has planned for Star Citizen is utterly impossible"

http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=22591.msg1389251#msg1389251

I really do wish CR would release the game soon so we can put this all to bed once and for all. Just who can we believe, the more I research this game the more I read about it just can't be done. This is sad and really hard to believe.

It seems to me that this game producer guy doesn't know what he's talking about. I mean look at what we have seen recently, We've got the persistant universe working, we've got the first-person combat working, we've had space combat working for a long time, we've got EVA working and we've got planetside environments working. Now that's not to say that they are currently buggy as hell but it's pre alpha so I can't take anyone seriously that complains about the bugs at this stage in development. So when an 'industry veteren' starts saying that they can't do one of these with the resources they have, well sorry but he's wrong because it's being done as we speak. Also as a supposed 'industry veteren' I'm amazed that he honestly believes that CIG only have $90 million, he should know more than anyone that at this point in time they will have a lot more money than that counting interest, tax-incentives etc...

 

[Corralis]

LOL I just read this from the early days. http://www.wired.com/2015/03/fans-dropped-77m-guys-buggy-half-built-game/

Seems nothing has really changed, still selling ships and the game is no where in site. Really have to laugh at this.

Roberts needs to bring people in from Origin to make him stop look listen and have others help him finish the game. After all that is what happened with WC and FL!

I don't get what you find funny about that article, you did read past the title didn't you? It wasn't exactly a bash on CIG.

Does Chris really need to bring more people in from Origin to help him finish the game? Seems to me that he has about 260 people helping him finish the game, some of which are from Origin and Digital Anvil by the way.

 

[BigM]

"They talked about Star Citizen because the whole Serek Dmart thing made it over here too and the guys jumped at the chance to ask an actual insider about his opinion. The consultant was very polite (he wants to keep working in the industry after all) yet managed to state in very polite terms that what Chris Roberts has planned for Star Citizen is utterly impossible"

http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=22591.msg1389251#msg1389251

I really do wish CR would release the game soon so we can put this all to bed once and for all. Just who can we believe, the more I research this game the more I read about it just can't be done. This is sad and really hard to believe.

It seems to me that this game producer guy doesn't know what he's talking about. I mean look at what we have seen recently, We've got the persistant universe working, we've got the first-person combat working, we've had space combat working for a long time, we've got EVA working and we've got planetside environments working. Now that's not to say that they are currently buggy as hell but it's pre alpha so I can't take anyone seriously that complains about the bugs at this stage in development. So when an 'industry veteren' starts saying that they can't do one of these with the resources they have, well sorry but he's wrong because it's being done as we speak. Also as a supposed 'industry veteren' I'm amazed that he honestly believes that CIG only have $90 million, he should know more than anyone that at this point in time they will have a lot more money than that counting interest, tax-incentives etc...

https://de.linkedin.com/in/teut986

You understand he is well known and respected right? I wouldn't say he has no idea what he is talking about!

 

[Corralis]

"They talked about Star Citizen because the whole Serek Dmart thing made it over here too and the guys jumped at the chance to ask an actual insider about his opinion. The consultant was very polite (he wants to keep working in the industry after all) yet managed to state in very polite terms that what Chris Roberts has planned for Star Citizen is utterly impossible"

http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=22591.msg1389251#msg1389251

I really do wish CR would release the game soon so we can put this all to bed once and for all. Just who can we believe, the more I research this game the more I read about it just can't be done. This is sad and really hard to believe.

It seems to me that this game producer guy doesn't know what he's talking about. I mean look at what we have seen recently, We've got the persistant universe working, we've got the first-person combat working, we've had space combat working for a long time, we've got EVA working and we've got planetside environments working. Now that's not to say that they are currently buggy as hell but it's pre alpha so I can't take anyone seriously that complains about the bugs at this stage in development. So when an 'industry veteren' starts saying that they can't do one of these with the resources they have, well sorry but he's wrong because it's being done as we speak. Also as a supposed 'industry veteren' I'm amazed that he honestly believes that CIG only have $90 million, he should know more than anyone that at this point in time they will have a lot more money than that counting interest, tax-incentives etc...

https://de.linkedin.com/in/teut986

You understand he is well known and respected right? I wouldn't say he has no idea what he is talking about!

Never heard of him, also he works for Ubisoft so can't really be that good. I can't respect anyone that believes Uplay was a good idea.

 

[BigM]

"They talked about Star Citizen because the whole Serek Dmart thing made it over here too and the guys jumped at the chance to ask an actual insider about his opinion. The consultant was very polite (he wants to keep working in the industry after all) yet managed to state in very polite terms that what Chris Roberts has planned for Star Citizen is utterly impossible"

http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=22591.msg1389251#msg1389251

I really do wish CR would release the game soon so we can put this all to bed once and for all. Just who can we believe, the more I research this game the more I read about it just can't be done. This is sad and really hard to believe.

It seems to me that this game producer guy doesn't know what he's talking about. I mean look at what we have seen recently, We've got the persistant universe working, we've got the first-person combat working, we've had space combat working for a long time, we've got EVA working and we've got planetside environments working. Now that's not to say that they are currently buggy as hell but it's pre alpha so I can't take anyone seriously that complains about the bugs at this stage in development. So when an 'industry veteren' starts saying that they can't do one of these with the resources they have, well sorry but he's wrong because it's being done as we speak. Also as a supposed 'industry veteren' I'm amazed that he honestly believes that CIG only have $90 million, he should know more than anyone that at this point in time they will have a lot more money than that counting interest, tax-incentives etc...

https://de.linkedin.com/in/teut986

You understand he is well known and respected right? I wouldn't say he has no idea what he is talking about!

Never heard of him, also he works for Ubisoft so can't really be that good. I can't respect anyone that believes Uplay was a good idea.

Amazing so the only guy in the industry that never finished a game by himself, who had to be told no just to have his game to get finished, is the only one that knows anything about making a game? Amazing so many other developers are wrong that what CR is doing can't be done!

 

[Corralis]

"They talked about Star Citizen because the whole Serek Dmart thing made it over here too and the guys jumped at the chance to ask an actual insider about his opinion. The consultant was very polite (he wants to keep working in the industry after all) yet managed to state in very polite terms that what Chris Roberts has planned for Star Citizen is utterly impossible"

http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=22591.msg1389251#msg1389251

I really do wish CR would release the game soon so we can put this all to bed once and for all. Just who can we believe, the more I research this game the more I read about it just can't be done. This is sad and really hard to believe.

It seems to me that this game producer guy doesn't know what he's talking about. I mean look at what we have seen recently, We've got the persistant universe working, we've got the first-person combat working, we've had space combat working for a long time, we've got EVA working and we've got planetside environments working. Now that's not to say that they are currently buggy as hell but it's pre alpha so I can't take anyone seriously that complains about the bugs at this stage in development. So when an 'industry veteren' starts saying that they can't do one of these with the resources they have, well sorry but he's wrong because it's being done as we speak. Also as a supposed 'industry veteren' I'm amazed that he honestly believes that CIG only have $90 million, he should know more than anyone that at this point in time they will have a lot more money than that counting interest, tax-incentives etc...

https://de.linkedin.com/in/teut986

You understand he is well known and respected right? I wouldn't say he has no idea what he is talking about!

Never heard of him, also he works for Ubisoft so can't really be that good. I can't respect anyone that believes Uplay was a good idea.

Amazing so the only guy in the industry that never finished a game by himself, who had to be told no just to have his game to get finished, is the only one that knows anything about making a game? Amazing so many other developers are wrong that what CR is doing can't be done!

Tell me something, how many people do you know (or have heard of) that has finsihed a AAA game by themselves?

Chris is one man with 260+ people behind him. And FYI he has finished a lot of games, only one I can think of that he didn't complete was Freelancer.

This developer your talking about works for Ubisoft. Ubisoft is a big publisher. Star Citizen is doing things that big publishers do not want to happen. Therefore it makes sense to me that people who work for Ubisoft (or EA or Activision) are going to bash it at any available opertunity.

 

[BigM]

"They talked about Star Citizen because the whole Serek Dmart thing made it over here too and the guys jumped at the chance to ask an actual insider about his opinion. The consultant was very polite (he wants to keep working in the industry after all) yet managed to state in very polite terms that what Chris Roberts has planned for Star Citizen is utterly impossible"

http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=22591.msg1389251#msg1389251

I really do wish CR would release the game soon so we can put this all to bed once and for all. Just who can we believe, the more I research this game the more I read about it just can't be done. This is sad and really hard to believe.

It seems to me that this game producer guy doesn't know what he's talking about. I mean look at what we have seen recently, We've got the persistant universe working, we've got the first-person combat working, we've had space combat working for a long time, we've got EVA working and we've got planetside environments working. Now that's not to say that they are currently buggy as hell but it's pre alpha so I can't take anyone seriously that complains about the bugs at this stage in development. So when an 'industry veteren' starts saying that they can't do one of these with the resources they have, well sorry but he's wrong because it's being done as we speak. Also as a supposed 'industry veteren' I'm amazed that he honestly believes that CIG only have $90 million, he should know more than anyone that at this point in time they will have a lot more money than that counting interest, tax-incentives etc...

https://de.linkedin.com/in/teut986

You understand he is well known and respected right? I wouldn't say he has no idea what he is talking about!

Never heard of him, also he works for Ubisoft so can't really be that good. I can't respect anyone that believes Uplay was a good idea.

Amazing so the only guy in the industry that never finished a game by himself, who had to be told no just to have his game to get finished, is the only one that knows anything about making a game? Amazing so many other developers are wrong that what CR is doing can't be done!

Tell me something, how many people do you know (or have heard of) that has finsihed a AAA game by themselves?

Chris is one man with 260+ people behind him. And FYI he has finished a lot of games, only one I can think of that he didn't complete was Freelancer.

This developer your talking about works for Ubisoft. Ubisoft is a big publisher. Star Citizen is doing things that big publishers do not want to happen. Therefore it makes sense to me that people who work for Ubisoft (or EA or Activision) are going to bash it at any available opertunity.

With WC it would never have been done if people weren't behind him at origin to make him stop and finish the game he originally started. CR has a problem with staying focused, right now he has no one behind him to say stop, no more.

You still ignored the part where all other developers are wrong and CR is always right. That is the worse part about debating with people like you. Whether it is DS or some other Developer they have no clue about making a game. No need to respond with anything about DS we get it we know what you have said a million times before.

 

[Corralis]

"They talked about Star Citizen because the whole Serek Dmart thing made it over here too and the guys jumped at the chance to ask an actual insider about his opinion. The consultant was very polite (he wants to keep working in the industry after all) yet managed to state in very polite terms that what Chris Roberts has planned for Star Citizen is utterly impossible"

http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=22591.msg1389251#msg1389251

I really do wish CR would release the game soon so we can put this all to bed once and for all. Just who can we believe, the more I research this game the more I read about it just can't be done. This is sad and really hard to believe.

It seems to me that this game producer guy doesn't know what he's talking about. I mean look at what we have seen recently, We've got the persistant universe working, we've got the first-person combat working, we've had space combat working for a long time, we've got EVA working and we've got planetside environments working. Now that's not to say that they are currently buggy as hell but it's pre alpha so I can't take anyone seriously that complains about the bugs at this stage in development. So when an 'industry veteren' starts saying that they can't do one of these with the resources they have, well sorry but he's wrong because it's being done as we speak. Also as a supposed 'industry veteren' I'm amazed that he honestly believes that CIG only have $90 million, he should know more than anyone that at this point in time they will have a lot more money than that counting interest, tax-incentives etc...

https://de.linkedin.com/in/teut986

You understand he is well known and respected right? I wouldn't say he has no idea what he is talking about!

Never heard of him, also he works for Ubisoft so can't really be that good. I can't respect anyone that believes Uplay was a good idea.

Amazing so the only guy in the industry that never finished a game by himself, who had to be told no just to have his game to get finished, is the only one that knows anything about making a game? Amazing so many other developers are wrong that what CR is doing can't be done!

Tell me something, how many people do you know (or have heard of) that has finsihed a AAA game by themselves?

Chris is one man with 260+ people behind him. And FYI he has finished a lot of games, only one I can think of that he didn't complete was Freelancer.

This developer your talking about works for Ubisoft. Ubisoft is a big publisher. Star Citizen is doing things that big publishers do not want to happen. Therefore it makes sense to me that people who work for Ubisoft (or EA or Activision) are going to bash it at any available opertunity.

With WC it would never have been done if people weren't behind him at origin to make him stop and finish the game he originally started. CR has a problem with staying focused, right now he has no one behind him to say stop, no more.

You still ignored the part where all other developers are wrong and CR is always right. That is the worse part about debating with people like you. Whether it is DS or some other Developer they have no clue about making a game. No need to respond with anything about DS we get it we know what you have said a million times before.

I never said Chris Roberts was always right, all I said was that there will be a lot of game developers out there that will do anything they can to bash CIG, especially the ones that work for the big name publishers and therefore I am as skeptical about them as you are about Star Citizen.

 

[Corralis]

"They talked about Star Citizen because the whole Serek Dmart thing made it over here too and the guys jumped at the chance to ask an actual insider about his opinion. The consultant was very polite (he wants to keep working in the industry after all) yet managed to state in very polite terms that what Chris Roberts has planned for Star Citizen is utterly impossible"

http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=22591.msg1389251#msg1389251

I really do wish CR would release the game soon so we can put this all to bed once and for all. Just who can we believe, the more I research this game the more I read about it just can't be done. This is sad and really hard to believe.

It seems to me that this game producer guy doesn't know what he's talking about. I mean look at what we have seen recently, We've got the persistant universe working, we've got the first-person combat working, we've had space combat working for a long time, we've got EVA working and we've got planetside environments working. Now that's not to say that they are currently buggy as hell but it's pre alpha so I can't take anyone seriously that complains about the bugs at this stage in development. So when an 'industry veteren' starts saying that they can't do one of these with the resources they have, well sorry but he's wrong because it's being done as we speak. Also as a supposed 'industry veteren' I'm amazed that he honestly believes that CIG only have $90 million, he should know more than anyone that at this point in time they will have a lot more money than that counting interest, tax-incentives etc...

https://de.linkedin.com/in/teut986

You understand he is well known and respected right? I wouldn't say he has no idea what he is talking about!

Never heard of him, also he works for Ubisoft so can't really be that good. I can't respect anyone that believes Uplay was a good idea.

Amazing so the only guy in the industry that never finished a game by himself, who had to be told no just to have his game to get finished, is the only one that knows anything about making a game? Amazing so many other developers are wrong that what CR is doing can't be done!

Tell me something, how many people do you know (or have heard of) that has finsihed a AAA game by themselves?

Chris is one man with 260+ people behind him. And FYI he has finished a lot of games, only one I can think of that he didn't complete was Freelancer.

This developer your talking about works for Ubisoft. Ubisoft is a big publisher. Star Citizen is doing things that big publishers do not want to happen. Therefore it makes sense to me that people who work for Ubisoft (or EA or Activision) are going to bash it at any available opertunity.

With WC it would never have been done if people weren't behind him at origin to make him stop and finish the game he originally started. CR has a problem with staying focused, right now he has no one behind him to say stop, no more.

You still ignored the part where all other developers are wrong and CR is always right. That is the worse part about debating with people like you. Whether it is DS or some other Developer they have no clue about making a game. No need to respond with anything about DS we get it we know what you have said a million times before.

Oh and yes Chris does have someone telling him to stop adding things, 665,926 backers (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tMAP0fg-AKScI3S3VjrDW3OaLO4zgBA1RSYoQOQoNSI/edit#gid=1694467207) told him to stop at the 65 million mark and work on everything that was promised up to that point.

 

[Flammablezeus]

On the other hand we have Fallout 4 (as a currently popular example.) It's big, ambitious, has probably been in development for much longer than Star Citizen and is getting released in less than three weeks. Yet we've seen so little of the game that we can't judge at all what kind of state it's in. Still, most people have nothing but positive things to say about it.

Well, its Bethesda. Which means the following:

1. They have a long track record of good games.
2. They did not take money from people prior to creating the game, except for pre-orders of the game itself.
3. They've built up a ton of good will over the years. Just a fuck ton of good will. They make good games, do fun stuff, give away games when fans do cool shit... they're just cool.
4. Everyone expects the game to be pretty fucked on release. Bethesda can't release a bug free game, and everyone knows it. But, we KNOW that. We don't need to argue about that being the case.

I mean, if you are nervous about Fallout 4, or think somethings wrong with it, I certainly wouldn't fault you for it. Details have been a bit light (Though, to be honest, I've loved everything I've seen).

Cloud Imperium is a new company, and its director might as well be new to the industry, for how long he's been absent.

The rest of your post I wont respond to, as it would simply be a rehash of what I'm sure you've read from me and others already. Just wanted to reply to the Fallout 4 bit.

They are some fairly reasonable points and you're right that we have good reason to expect that the game will be playable and most likely good. I have it preordered myself. However, I am definitely a little worried, especially after Skyrim. I'd say that Bethesda has done more to hurt its image than help it with how that went. I feel like their games have been progressively stripped of interesting things post-Morrowind in lieu of making the games accessible to people who are newer to games. Plus there was the fact that Todd Howard promised a level of depth for Skyrim which never made it in.

I also understand that there's a difference between preorders and crowd-funding, but in the end it is functionally the same thing, as long as a product is released. While I've preordered Fallout 4, I have no reason to believe that it will be fine on release, much like if I had backed Star Citizen. Of course, I give more leeway to crowd-funded games because of the whole nature of the concept. This is how I've treated every crowd-funded game that I've backed, and I barely been disappointed yet (I'd say much less disappointed than I have been with AAA games in recent years.)

Thanks for the response though. I'm not trying to invalidate your points, just adding my perspective to them. Either way I'm sure we'll both have fun with Fallout 4, and I'll save my judgement of Star Citizen for a later date.

 

[Corralis]

I'm just gonna leave this here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TwjXC628cs