Classic RPGs - Diablo 2 vs Baldur's Gate 2

Recommended Videos

RyQ_TMC

New member
Apr 24, 2009
1,002
0
0
BG2 for the story, characters and depth of the in-game world. Also, while both games had their share of humour, the one in BG2 was like reading a good book, while the one in D2 was like being whacked on the head with a rubber mallet.

I don't despise D2, it is a happy maim-a-thon with many advantages, I just don't think it can measure up to one of the best cRPGs ever made.
 

Fallswhale

New member
Mar 19, 2009
39
0
0
D2 prepared me for what I ended up getting from blizz, addictive yet samey ACTION/rpgs where the draw is what are you doing every second of a fight. Diablo set the bar very high for any MMOaction game so that no one has done another effectively.

BG2 on the other hand is a RPG. It mattered how you got into the fight and what you were fighting. The proper succesion of attacks and having the buff stuff gear mattered, but you would replay the scenes so you would get the other plots not the choice drops.

So to answer the question if I had kids and gave them a game to play when they were 13 for the story I would give them BG1/2 as I feel it is a better game and to teach them about cooperative internet play I would give them D2.

Final thought: Anyone ever use the Diablo supplement for 2nd edition AD&D?(or later editions as I stopped collecting when I left school.)
 

TOGSolid

New member
Jul 15, 2008
1,509
0
0
Two TOTALLY different style of games here.

Christ, cut it out with the vs. threads already.
 

Comieodor

New member
May 13, 2008
7
0
0
Both games are special for many reasons. At the moment my No.1 reason is because I'm without a windows based PC and am able to play both on my Mac laptop (along with very few other games).

In my opinion Diablo 2 is the superior game.

HOWEVER!!!

I'll take BG2 any day and twice on Sundays.

Both have astounding production values that, in RPG's at least, I don't think have yet been matched. Diablo was a brilliant game and a treat to play with friends (even if not in multi), but BG2 to me is more than a game, its a grand story that I never get tired of hearing. I believe it will be one of the VERY few games, that will never be too old to pick up and play (only others I can think of being Tetris, Alley Cat and Doom).
 

Alex_P

All I really do is threadcrap
Mar 27, 2008
2,712
0
0
Anachronism said:
Alex_P said:
I loved BG2, but its absolutely horrible AD&D-derived game rules make replays unsatisfying. Save vs. death? Not in two-thousand-freakin'-nine.
Am I the only one who actually likes the AD&D rules? I know they're extremely complicated, and even counterintuitive in some ways, but I still think they work very well in the game. Sure, they take quite a while to get used to, but once I got them all figured out I barely noticed all the complicated stuff.
It's not that the rules are complicated. It's that they're, well, sucky.

Character creation is pointlessly random.

The mainstay of the game is rather-tedious hit-point attrition (and, especially in AD&D 2nd Edition, rules that turn the cleric into an hp-battery), but it's got all these other bits, like save-or-die magic, that completely short-circuit that entire mechanic and just give you a random chance to win a battle (or force you to quick-load, if you're on the receiving end).

Trying to use pen-and-paper rules in a video game really hamstrings it. D&D's course-grained actions (in "rounds") and spell-slot mechanics really take most of the nuance out of spellcasting. The inclusion of D&D's handful-of-encounters-then-rest style of resource management creates painful dissonance between the game mechanics and the narrative of play.

I love BG2. But, man, I wish someone would make a game that expansive without all the poorly-fitting D&D-isms.

-- Alex
 

egwidalin

New member
May 8, 2009
140
0
0
Skeleon said:
The thing is that Diablo 2 is not really an RPG...
It's an Action-RPG.
I like them for their addictive nature, but I don't consider them actual RPGs, they lack immersion, character development (no, I'm not talking stats and skills) and story.
Diablo 1 was much better in that respect, at least concerning immersion and story.
However, gameplay-wise Diablo 2 was superior to Diablo 1 in almost every way.
There was no real character development in either one of them.
uhm, what does character development, immersion, and story have to do with being an rpg? yes they are some factors that make a good game, but rpg stands for role playing game, not cinematic masterpiece..
 

Skeleon

New member
Nov 2, 2007
5,410
0
0
egwidalin said:
uhm, what does character development, immersion, and story have to do with being an rpg? yes they are some factors that make a good game, but rpg stands for role playing game, not cinematic masterpiece..
It's the heart of an RPG, simple as that.
Never played a P&P-RPG I presume?

Most Computer-RPGs are reduced to a dipshit running around killing monsters, collecting items and boosting stats.

But an actual "Role Playing Game" lets you play the role of a character within an immersive story. This means behaving according to your character's traits in conversations and problemsolving. Gathering items and gaining experience are the least important parts of real RPGs.
 

Anachronism

New member
Apr 9, 2009
1,842
0
0
Alex_P said:
Character creation is pointlessly random.

The mainstay of the game is rather-tedious hit-point attrition (and, especially in AD&D 2nd Edition, rules that turn the cleric into an hp-battery), but it's got all these other bits, like save-or-die magic, that completely short-circuit that entire mechanic and just give you a random chance to win a battle (or force you to quick-load, if you're on the receiving end).

Trying to use pen-and-paper rules in a video game really hamstrings it. D&D's course-grained actions (in "rounds") and spell-slot mechanics really take most of the nuance out of spellcasting. The inclusion of D&D's handful-of-encounters-then-rest style of resource management creates painful dissonance between the game mechanics and the narrative of play.
Character creation is random if you use the most basic rule for it, in which you roll 3d6 for each attribute, yes. With that option, you have no choice over which attributes get which scores, and as such there is no way of choosing your class; you have to let the rules choose it for you. Baldur's Gate, however, essentially uses the rule where you role 18d6, add up the scores, and divide them among your attributes as you wish. This way, it's much easier to choose which class you want to play. There is still an element of randomness to it, I admit, but it's hardly pointless.

I do agree on the hit-point attrition, though. It is obviously dependent on other factors like magical protection, but it does basically come down to attrition, I admit. Despite that, the fact that the cleric is a hit-point battery, while supporting the attrition argument, does a great deal to prevent winning or losing the battle from being a random chance. In many cases, it all comes down to how you use your magic: healing spells, protective spells, etc. The death spells are a bit of a short-circuit, I suppose, but there are only two of them (I think), both are high-level spells, and few people use them frequently as a result. In my opinion, the fact that they're high-level magic works well, because, to me at least, it makes sense that powerful mages would be able to, essentially, kill with a word.

While the gameplay is divided into rounds, in the BG games at least, it effectively plays out in real time, or at least appears to. The fact that it is, at heart, turn-based has very little impact on what the player actually does; and besides, it's not like there's any shortage of turn-based RPGs. In a tabletop game, the fact that it's turn-based is no problem at all, as there would, really, be no other way of handling combat. The spell slot system does seem a little odd, but Final Fantasy does much the same thing: you don't have a mana pool; you have a set number of each spell.

It may seem like I'm trying to argue the AD&D rules are flawless, but honestly, I'm not. I suppose in a way I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here, trying to show that the rules don't necessarily deserve the bad reputation they have. They're not perfect, but no RPG ruleset is, and I like them for what they are.
 

klakkat

New member
May 24, 2008
825
0
0
They're in completely different sectors of the RPG sector. Baldur's Gate 2 is heavily character and story driven, with the combat feeling more like an add on.

Diablo 2 is a heavily combat driven game, with any character development and story being accidental.

Apparently, the latter one is more popular. I've played both games for about the same amount of time (read: way too much) and they both have their appeal. Baldur's Gate 2 is fantastic for the depth of story and the way you can flesh out the character, while Diablo 2 is mindlessly addictive (I guess it requires a fair bit of thought to maximize builds, but still).
 

Cuniculus

New member
May 29, 2009
778
0
0
I liked them both, but didn't like BG as much. Diablo is a much easier game for the average masses to get into. You pick a character, hack at some monsters, find a weapon that it slightly better than yours, switch it... etc. Don't get me wrong though, it was fun and I enjoyed all the time I spent on it.

BG was just annoying at times. You would just be walking through a dungeon and hit a trap that shoots your main character with a dart that turns him into stone (irreversibly)... game over. What the hell is that all about?
 

UsefulPlayer 1

New member
Feb 22, 2008
1,776
0
0
Diablo 2, though I never played Baldur's Gate.

It's just that I remember playing Diablo 2 multiplayer in elementary school on DIAL-UP. Gosh the memories.
 

high_castle

New member
Apr 15, 2009
1,162
0
0
Despite both being RPGs, they're both very different games. And I think which one you prefer says a lot about your personality. I happen to be BG fan (and a BioWare RPG fan in general). The whole BG series was pure gold to me; I love these games. They have interesting characters, an engaging storyline, logical level progression, and skilled writing. The Diablo games were good for multiplayer and had good cinematics for the day, but I found them light on character development. I had no emotional connection to the game the way I had with Baldur's Gate.
 

Kalia

New member
Jan 19, 2006
1
0
0
Diablo 2 is an action RPG with no real story or character development.

Baldur's Gate, however, is a true story-oriented RPG.

Two totally different games that can't be compared any more than one can compare apples to oranges.
 

Agayek

Ravenous Gormandizer
Oct 23, 2008
5,178
0
0
2 things:

1) The games are nothing alike. Diablo 2 is action heavy hack-n-slash, and it barely qualifies as an RPG. BG2 is a story-driven/obssessed game, and typically considered the RPG.

2) Baldur's Gate 2 is far and away the greatest game ever made, therefore it wins this comparison handily.
 

Artemis923

New member
Dec 25, 2008
1,496
0
0
Anachronism said:
Alex_P said:
Character creation is pointlessly random.

The mainstay of the game is rather-tedious hit-point attrition (and, especially in AD&D 2nd Edition, rules that turn the cleric into an hp-battery), but it's got all these other bits, like save-or-die magic, that completely short-circuit that entire mechanic and just give you a random chance to win a battle (or force you to quick-load, if you're on the receiving end).

Trying to use pen-and-paper rules in a video game really hamstrings it. D&D's course-grained actions (in "rounds") and spell-slot mechanics really take most of the nuance out of spellcasting. The inclusion of D&D's handful-of-encounters-then-rest style of resource management creates painful dissonance between the game mechanics and the narrative of play.
Character creation is random if you use the most basic rule for it, in which you roll 3d6 for each attribute, yes. With that option, you have no choice over which attributes get which scores, and as such there is no way of choosing your class; you have to let the rules choose it for you. Baldur's Gate, however, essentially uses the rule where you role 18d6, add up the scores, and divide them among your attributes as you wish. This way, it's much easier to choose which class you want to play. There is still an element of randomness to it, I admit, but it's hardly pointless.

I do agree on the hit-point attrition, though. It is obviously dependent on other factors like magical protection, but it does basically come down to attrition, I admit. Despite that, the fact that the cleric is a hit-point battery, while supporting the attrition argument, does a great deal to prevent winning or losing the battle from being a random chance. In many cases, it all comes down to how you use your magic: healing spells, protective spells, etc. The death spells are a bit of a short-circuit, I suppose, but there are only two of them (I think), both are high-level spells, and few people use them frequently as a result. In my opinion, the fact that they're high-level magic works well, because, to me at least, it makes sense that powerful mages would be able to, essentially, kill with a word.

While the gameplay is divided into rounds, in the BG games at least, it effectively plays out in real time, or at least appears to. The fact that it is, at heart, turn-based has very little impact on what the player actually does; and besides, it's not like there's any shortage of turn-based RPGs. In a tabletop game, the fact that it's turn-based is no problem at all, as there would, really, be no other way of handling combat. The spell slot system does seem a little odd, but Final Fantasy does much the same thing: you don't have a mana pool; you have a set number of each spell.

It may seem like I'm trying to argue the AD&D rules are flawless, but honestly, I'm not. I suppose in a way I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here, trying to show that the rules don't necessarily deserve the bad reputation they have. They're not perfect, but no RPG ruleset is, and I like them for what they are.
I'll take 2nd AD&D over the cesspool that is 4th Ed. any day.
 

Aqua Trenoble

New member
Mar 25, 2009
146
0
0
Like most people said, they are really different, but I overall prefer BG2.

While some of the graphics, boss names and moves in Diablo 2 were excellent, they took way too much patience and time to get to. Meteors are very fun and such, but they don't really feel as satisfying as gibbing someone with a vampire in BG2. Maybe if Diablo 2 had decent cheats/modding/aftergame rewards I would like it better but Diablo just requires way too much patience, a virtue I'm somewhat lacking in.

Also, there's WAY WAY WAAAAY more gameplay available in BG2 than in Diablo, even if you are patient enough to get to the levels where enemies outright kick your ass. Mostly this is due to aforementioned modding and vampires. Sure there are a lot of things that could be called gimmicks in BG2, such as the conversations and slight differences in weapon effects, but these are well-done enough that you could spent years trying to complete everything in BG2 (not including GTA-esque rampages).
 

Aqua Trenoble

New member
Mar 25, 2009
146
0
0
Like most people said, they are really different, but I overall prefer BG2.

While some of the graphics, boss names and moves in Diablo 2 were excellent, they took way too much patience and time to get to. Meteors are very fun and such, but they don't really feel as satisfying as gibbing someone with a vampire in BG2. Maybe if Diablo 2 had decent cheats/modding/aftergame rewards I would like it better but Diablo just requires way too much patience, a virtue I'm somewhat lacking in.

Also, there's WAY WAY WAAAAY more gameplay available in BG2 than in Diablo, even if you are patient enough to get to the levels where enemies outright kick your ass. Mostly this is due to aforementioned modding and vampires. Sure there are a lot of things that could be called gimmicks in BG2, such as the conversations and slight differences in weapon effects, but these are well-done enough that you could spent years trying to complete everything in BG2 (not including GTA-esque rampages) if you were really THAT obsessive.