CliffyB: Microtransaction is Not a Dirty Word, EA is Not The Bad Guy

[Rachmaninov]

That's a funny thing to say because that's what the ENTIRETY of your argument hinges on. Subjective Value. Not retail value, you know, the retail value of 60 dollars that a player has to pay in order to play either TF2 or DS3.

You'd know this wasn't the truth if you'd been paying attention.

Yes, I argue that TF2's subjective value is as great as DS3's on its own. And that is my opinion, and you are free to disagree with.

I also argue that The Orange Box's objective value is greater than that of DS3, because The Orange Box is five games (albeit that two are episodic, one is what you call a "tech demo" and one is MP-only; the other is still a full game) and Dead Space 3 is only one game.

The fact that a person MAY or MAY NOT play the other games, and MAY or MAY NOT already own them doesn't change the fact they paid 60 dollars.

And whether or not they play the other games, they could still resell them, or gift them, or trade them. That means you are still getting more for your money.

You've been arguing subjectively that the value of old games is the same as the value of new games...

Yes.

...and then you argue that the value of old games is not the same as new games (when I bring up the C&C Bundle)

No.

I pointed out your hypocrisy in saying that "old games don't count" before showing me a deal made up of comparatively ancient games.

then you argue that subjective X game is better because Y review says so, then you argue subjectively that X game is better because it has some free DLC 5 years after it's release date that's been paid for by Mann Co store

You were talking about subjective value, and I was showing you that the critics as a whole subjectively valued TF2 higher. And you have no answer to it, except to tell me that I was doing it? Good job.

And that bit about the Mann Co store proves you don't know anything about TF2. They made more than six major updates between release and the introduction of the Mann Co store, and added plenty of content in total with those, and other smaller updates and inclusions. All free, and all before the Mann Co store was introduced.

Please, research the subject before you make claims like that.

then you argue subjectively that DS3 deliberately cut content from the game to sell as DLC

The evidence: Eleven pieces of Day One, on the disk DLC, which were technically part of the game, but had to be unlocked.

TF2 did not do that.

Subjective, double-standard talk that ignores the base value of guess what, 60 dollars to play a game.

I'm not ignoring the price. You're ignoring the fact that only one of those comes with four free games.

If I see two movies for the same price, and one has a short in front of it, and one does not, I'm still paying the same cost to see the movie.

Because getting Half Life 2/Episode One/Episode Two/Portal while paying for TF2 is really comparable to paying for a movie, and getting a short...

Seriously, are you even reading what you're typing?

Because this is obviously pointless.

Since you are completely incapable of letting EA take any of the blame for anything, I think you might actually be right, on this one.

So instead you fall on the "oh 5 games so they're 12.50 each"

No, you paid 60 dollars to play Team Fortress 2

And then you fall on "Oh but TF2 has free content"

But no, you paid 60 dollars to play a game, and it has MT.

But TF2 DOES have free content. There is no "But no" about that. And it only had MT three years after it came out and one year before it went F2P.

Tell me how the retail PRICE differs. I don't give a shit about what's in the box. Assume a person is only playing TF2, because, you know that's the only game that's relevant to this discussion.

The retail price doesn't differ, except that with one game you get four others free. You can resell/gift/trade if you don't want them, and then deduct the resell/gift/trade value from the original price, which would make it LOWER THAN $60.

So tell me again, how Valve is different from EA? Why is it that in all these discussions, not one of you preachers of the church of Valve has even thought to mention that.

I've told you how Valve is different from EA, but I'll tell you again, since you evidently covered your eyes the first time:

Did Valve buy up and crush beloved development studios? No? EA did.
Did Valve make fifty-eight games about football? No? EA did.
Does Valve cram anti-consumer DRM, Day One DLC, microtransactions AND paid DLC into EVERY PRODUCT? No? EA does.
Did Valve's big-wigs have a discussion about charging players for individual bullets? No? EA's did.

Do EA support indie games? No? Valve does.
Do EA offer free DLC for some of their games? No? Valve does.
Do EA offer massive sales on hundreds of products simultaneously? No? Valve does.
Do EA support the modding community? No? Valve does.

Fucking hell, I am SOOOOOOO done with all of you and your Valve fanboy arguments.

You call us fanboys, except you are the only one here who is completely incapable of level-headed thought. You haven't proportioned a single bit of blame towards EA throughout this whole discussion, and you have tried to pour it all on Valve.

I've told you what I like about EA and what I don't like about Valve.

And what've you offered in return? Absolutely nothing.

Evidently, you are the fanboy here, not us.

 

[Rachmaninov]

-snip-

No, you paid 60 dollars for a collection of five games. Not for one specific game.

This isn't that hard to understand. You're only choosing not to understand it because you're irrationally hating on Valve, to the point where you perceive everyone who disagrees with you as a "Valve fanboy". Which I'm really not.

What about PORTAL 2 boy? FULL PRICED GAME? Micro transactions?

Explain that shit to me.

When's PORTAL 2 gonna be free to play?!?!

You're the one evading.

You've found that a Valve game is full retail price and launched with MTs?

QUICK, DROP EVERYTHING ELSE AND POST OVER AND OVER ABOUT THAT! Never mind answering all the other shit. Let's pretend that shit doesn't exist, because you think you've got a ***** in the armor here.

You don't.

Yes, Valve launched a full price retail game with MTs. Yes, that would be like EA launching a full price retail game with MTs.

But like I've been saying from the very start, MTs are Dead Space 3's most minor transgression.

Let me offer you a side by side comparison.

Portal 2
MTs at launch---Yes
Day One DLC-----No
Paid DLC--------No
Free DLC--------Yes

Dead Space 3
MTs at launch---Yes
Day One DLC-----Yes
Paid DLC--------Yes
Free DLC--------No


So go on, evade you way out of that. Go and dig through Valve's whole damn library, I can wait while you try to find another nugget to desperately cling to.

 

[Rachmaninov]

You call us fanboys, except you are the only one here who is completely incapable of level-headed thought. You haven't proportioned a single bit of blame towards EA throughout this whole discussion, and you have tried to pour it all on Valve.

I've told you what I like about EA and what I don't like about Valve.

And what've you offered in return? Absolutely nothing.

Evidently, you are the fanboy here, not us.

Dude you wrote that whole long post and not ONE mention of Portal 2? NOT ONE MENTION.

WOW. You didn't even fucking quote it.

Did it register in your mind? Or did you erase it?

Do you know how IRRATIONAL it is, to argue for 5 pages about the differences between TF2 and DS3 regarding microtransactions and completely not even mention the fact that Portal 2 is just as bad as Dead Space 3? Like, does that register? Do you comprehend how absurd that is?

WOW. JUST WOW. This place is like crazy town.

You're back on the ignore list.

Oh, look who didn't have the patience to wait for me to post again, so he'd see I actually addressed, and in fact totally unwound his argument regarding Portal 2.

Guess if I'm on the ignore list, you'll never know how wrong you are?

And it's funny how you cherry picked that one missing piece, and didn't respond to any of my other arguments, because the fact was; you didn't have an answer.

I'm not crazy yet, but I think I might've gone crazy if I spent much longer trying to unwind the tangled spaghetti logic you had to resort to, to turn literally every spot of blame away from your beloved EA.

 

[Rachmaninov]

You know what's also irrational?

Trying to argue there's a difference between day 1 DLC and day 1 MTs like the portal 2 store, which is essentially cosmetic DLC at MT prices.

Off-topic; You know what's also irrational? Pretending you put someone on your ignore list, and then proving you didn't.

On-topic; I see the similarities, as it happens. So I agree, DS3's Day One DLC and Portal 2's MTs are very similar.

Portal 2 still has free DLC, though. Which still puts it ahead.

Ahem,

Boner boner boner, boner boner. Boner boner $60, boner boner boner $20. Boner boner cost vs value, boner. Boner boner boner boner boner. Boner 5 games boner boner boner one game boner 4 free games boner. Unwanted boner. Boner boner boner. Boner. Boner boner boner boner boner. Microtransactions boner. Boner EA, boner Valve.

In conclusion: boner.

Yeah, or you could contribute. That'd be cool, too.

 

[Rachmaninov]

You're on my ignore list buddy. So is Rogue09. So is CritterKitten. So is someone from way back called Saintwaldo. You want a screenshot?

But there's a little option that say "click to show post". Notice how I didn't quote you?

So nice try. But, failed again. And calling me a liar to boot.

Oh, my bad. I've never felt the need to put anyone on my ignore list, so I had no idea it worked like that.

Regardless. This conversation has hi-lighted what an utter and complete waste of time it is to debate with people on these forums when you've got one side of the debate ignoring such completely damning evidence to their case.

No one ignored it, I responded and it wasn't damning. But you're just going to keep posting posts full of hostility, despite the fact that I actually part-way agreed with you in my last post, eh? Going to keep accusing me of ignoring evidence when I answered everything, yeah? And when I've got loads of arguments you never responded to, even on this one page alone?

Be like that, then.

And for the last time, I don't give a shit about EA. I have five of their games, the newest being Dead Space 1 (not counting BF3 which I played for 3 hours and traded in) and the only one I'd play again being Mirror's Edge. If I'm a fan of anyone, again it's Ninja Theory, Eidos Montreal and Bethesda.

Whether or not you play EA games, you just spent pages and pages of typing trying to deflect absolutely 100% of the blame away from EA in every situation, so it's pretty evident you do in fact "give a shit about EA", and that you in fact, give a lot of a shit.

 

[Joby Baumann]

You're on my ignore list buddy. So is Rogue09. So is CritterKitten. So is someone from way back called Saintwaldo. You want a screenshot?

But there's a little option that say "click to show post". Notice how I didn't quote you?

So nice try. But, failed again. And calling me a liar to boot.

Regardless. This conversation has hi-lighted what an utter and complete waste of time it is to debate with people on these forums when you've got one side of the debate ignoring such completely damning evidence to their case. So I'll restrict my comments to FB threads only.

And for the last time, I don't give a shit about EA. I have five of their games, the newest being Dead Space 1 (not counting BF3 which I played for 3 hours and traded in) and the only one I'd play again being Mirror's Edge. If I'm a fan of anyone, again it's Ninja Theory, Eidos Montreal and Bethesda.

Dude, let me put this in perspective.

You are trying to argue that Dead Space 3's microtransactions in a single player focused, action horror game, which include weapons and story content are the same thing as Team Fortress 2's and Portal 2's purely cosmetic DLC and microtransactions. Players who don't get the valve stuff only miss out on some stupid hats, while people who don't get EA's stuff miss out on weapons, missions, and content that actually has an impact on gameplay.

Honestly, I am 99% certain that you are either trolling, or possess a severe mental deficiency, as next to your ramblings cost vs value boner seems entirely rational.

 

[bl4ckh4wk64]

The amount of butthurt in this thread is hilarious.

OT: He raises a good point, even if EA deserves the hatred. This generation of gamers is the most spoiled generation yet. We expect so much from new games, yet we aren't willing to pay for quality, we just want the cheapest games. If that means torrenting it, so be it. If it means buying used, why not? All the people raising the "TF2 is F2P" argument seem to forget that it wasn't originally Free. I paid for it, and I'm pissed that those fuckers at Valve are allowing people to just straight up buy better stuff. That's one of the reasons I stopped playing the game. People also complain about DLC being $15 for an extra two-three hours of content. Have you seen the price of weapons in the Mann Co store? I re-installed the game to fuck around with some friends, and for fun I looked at the price. Some of those weapons are running close to $10... I mean, really? How is THAT not Knickel and Diming the players? People expect that these extra things people are making for games (DLC) should be free. That's essentially the equivalent of buying a car and expecting the gas to come with it.

 

[ultramarine486]

People expect that these extra things people are making for games (DLC) should be free. That's essentially the equivalent of buying a car and expecting the gas to come with it.

Umm I'm not sure where you buy your cars but mine came with gas... kinda hard to drive off the lot without it you know.