CliffyB: Microtransaction is Not a Dirty Word, EA is Not The Bad Guy

[Rachmaninov]

All the people raising the "TF2 is F2P" argument seem to forget that it wasn't originally Free.

Neither did it originally have the Mann Co store. But I've said this plenty of times over already, and I'm guessing you'll have read me saying it at least once.

But CliffyB even bringing TF2 into this is complete nonsense, because the microtransactions shitstorm is aimed at Dead Space 3 and EA. Both of which have a lot more going wrong than just this.

EA embrace every money-grubbing tactic they can see, and microtransactions are only the latest of these.

And Dead Space 3 is a perverse twisting of a successful niche game, in an attempt to make it appeal to broader audiences, by the way of more action, explosions and a more generic plot. It has microtransactions shoehorned in, to go along with Day One, on the disk DLC and likely full price paid DLC down the line. Not to mention a budget so bloated there it has absolutely no hope of even breaking even, since EA publicly dangled the guillotine over the franchise, telling us it needed five million units sold, to be viable. (I'd like to mention here, that I do own the game, and have played it to the end, and enjoyed it for what it is)

Microtransactions are just one little gripe which is getting a lot of attention. CliffyB wants to pretend this is all about microtransactions, but it isn't, at all.

I paid for it, and I'm pissed that those fuckers at Valve are allowing people to just straight up buy better stuff.

The microtransactions options offered by Valve are similar to those in Dead Space 3, in that they offer convenience.

Those people buying better stuff aren't getting something you can't get, they're just getting it sooner. In the same way that if you pay for resources on Dead Space 3, you can be more powerful there.

That's one of the reasons I stopped playing the game. People also complain about DLC being $15 for an extra two-three hours of content. Have you seen the price of weapons in the Mann Co store? I re-installed the game to fuck around with some friends, and for fun I looked at the price. Some of those weapons are running close to $10... I mean, really? How is THAT not Knickel and Diming the players? People expect that these extra things people are making for games (DLC) should be free. That's essentially the equivalent of buying a car and expecting the gas to come with it.

The DLC made for TF2 was all free. The DLC made for Portal 2 was all free. I believe Valve gave some DLC for free to L4D, too, in apology for making L4D2 too soon.

Free DLC isn't such an unrealistic expectation.

But in response to your comment about the DLC price, I actually think it's more like $20-25 rather than $15, for full priced DLC these days.

And in response to the weapons being as much as $10, that is not so unreasonable by comparison to other microtransaction systems. Dead Space 3, for instance, sells you a pack of in-game resources at $3 a time, and does not carry over those resources into any other mode besides "New Game Plus" meaning that any resources you buy are really only useful to one for one playthrough, if that, which is 17 hours (or was for me, taking it slow).

I know I could put in more than 17 hours into TF2, making use of a $10 gun. If you wanted to buy it, chances are it's the gun you'd use for a hundred hours, let alone seventeen.

 

[Keymik]

Whew! That was one long rant reading

I don't really have anything to add that haven't been mentioned.
Now excuse me while I go enjoy myself on Steam ^^

 

[trouble_gum]

CliffyB: Is Wrong In Article On The Internet.

Now sports.

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

I never said that "Free Players" get no drops. I said that the drops for Free Players happen an extreeeeeeemly lower frequency of those who have bought items or bought the game previous to the F2P Update. Free players get next to no drops until they pay.

1. You're going to need to back that up with evidence, because I can't find anything to suggest that other than the usual people who have had trouble with the drop system (F2P and Premium).


2. You're extending the goal post if you think it's a problem that they only get free stuff instead of "more free stuff."

You could play for hours as a free player and only get one drop in a day of playing TF2, while the "Premium" player has received 3-4 crates and a weapon. And getting weapons is a much more rare occurence even for "Premium" players. So the chances of getting a weapon are extremely low for free players. This I think we all know from playing the game ourselves and just seeing people talking about drops or the lack there of in the chat section.

And this is just untrue. F2P players actually have a higher chance of getting weapons because their drops do not include rarer items such as hats. Simply put, the system is randomized except for the variable on what items they can receive.

And you're going to have to give me proof of that. With every friend of mine that I introduced to TF2 when it went free, they all took an extensively long time to get drops compared to me, one who bought the game. Fact is, free players get less drops. After they bought a key, the amount of drops they received was more frequent. Hell, you could just go on the game's chat and ask around. They also can't trade at all. And trading is a pretty big portion of what you do in TF2.

 

[ViciousTide]

Star wars went F2P, now it's free up to level 10, then they bombbard you with "subcriber access only" until you wish to quit because you can't stand the restrictions anymore.

 

[Rachmaninov]

Star wars went F2P, now it's free up to level 10, then they bombbard you with "subcriber access only" until you wish to quit because you can't stand the restrictions anymore.

So basically, they want it to be a demo, instead of actual F2P?

EA: "Here, Player X, play our game for free!"
Player X: "Thanks. Wow, this is fun! I'm enjoying this!"
EA: "Good. Now that you're level ten, give us money!"
Player X: "But you said this game was free!"

Oh, EA.

Just writing out that scenario made me want to shake my head in disappointment that I, too, thought it was actually free. They've conned people into thinking it's free, when in truth, you pay, either by harassment or with money.

 

[Rachmaninov]

And you're going to have to give me proof of that. With every friend of mine that I introduced to TF2 when it went free, they all took an extensively long time to get drops compared to me, one who bought the game. Fact is, free players get less drops. After they bought a key, the amount of drops they received was more frequent. Hell, you could just go on the game's chat and ask around. They also can't trade at all. And trading is a pretty big portion of what you do in TF2.

There is no mention of such a restriction here [http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Item_drop_system], although they do give a vague mention of:

"free players receive only limited item drops (with no rare or cosmetic items) until they upgrade to Premium status, upon which they gain access to the full item drop system."

But if you look at the FAQ that quote uses for a source here [http://www.teamfortress.com/freetoplay/faq.php] you will yet again find no mention of an altered drop rate. They merely mention that free players do not get rare or cosmetic drops.

The first link even has graphs depicting the drop rate, and someone in the community has spent an extensive amount of time compiling data to make them. For them to then go on to make no mention about any change of the drop rate for free players is a little far-fetched.

 

[Rattja]

I wanna know, what happened to "the costumer is always right"?

Also.. EA.. Electronic Arts.. Hmm.. Exactly what kind of art is this?

At least they got the "challenge everything" slogan right.

 

[Jopoho]

I feel like the difference can be seen with the help of the very outdated 360 version of TF2. It's not as complete and there are not as many things, but everything that is still there is still fun as a standalone game, which I don't feel is true of most micro-transaction systems, EA related or otherwise.

Except maybe spying, which is very difficult when dropped ammo doesn't refill the cloak meter, but you didn't need to pay for that feature on the PC version anyway.

 

[Rachmaninov]

I feel like the difference can be seen with the help of the very outdated 360 version of TF2. It's not as complete and there are not as many things, but everything that is still there is still fun as a standalone game, which I don't feel is true of most micro-transaction systems, EA related or otherwise.

Except maybe spying, which is very difficult when dropped ammo doesn't refill the cloak meter, but you didn't need to pay for that feature on the PC version anyway.

I've never actually spoken to anyone who owns the 360 version before!

Is it hard to get matches? Do you wish you bought the PC version?

 

[Rachmaninov]

I wanna know, what happened to "the costumer is always right"?

Also.. EA.. Electronic Arts.. Hmm.. Exactly what kind of art is this?

At least they got the "challenge everything" slogan right.

It's the kind of art you make with massive piles of money when you're a sociopath. That kind of art.

EA's "challenge everything" slogan actually means "challenge consumer tolerance for money-grubbing" and also "challenge consumer patience".

In fact, there are a lot of things I find challenging about EA... so I guess they're pretty successful at that.

 

[Lovely Mixture]

And you're going to have to give me proof of that. With every friend of mine that I introduced to TF2 when it went free, they all took an extensively long time to get drops compared to me, one who bought the game. Fact is, free players get less drops. After they bought a key, the amount of drops they received was more frequent.

There's no proof for or against your claim (or mine), but it's not fact.

You even have people from just last year and even a few months ago claiming that F2P players have higher drop rates than premium players.

Way I figure, it's random and chance.

Hell, you could just go on the game's chat and ask around.

I did so. No one had definite evidence other than one guy trying an F2P account, and he said it got normal drops.

So differing experiences all around.

They also can't trade at all. And trading is a pretty big portion of what you do in TF2.

Highly debatable. That really depends on how much time you're investing in the game.

I feel like the difference can be seen with the help of the very outdated 360 version of TF2. It's not as complete and there are not as many things, but everything that is still there is still fun as a standalone game, which I don't feel is true of most micro-transaction systems, EA related or otherwise.

Except maybe spying, which is very difficult when dropped ammo doesn't refill the cloak meter, but you didn't need to pay for that feature on the PC version anyway.

I've never actually spoken to anyone who owns the 360 version before!

Is it hard to get matches? Do you wish you bought the PC version?

The problem is that it hasn't been patched since 2009, it has many glitches that griefers can exploit.

 

[Genocidicles]

And you're going to have to give me proof of that. With every friend of mine that I introduced to TF2 when it went free, they all took an extensively long time to get drops compared to me, one who bought the game. Fact is, free players get less drops. After they bought a key, the amount of drops they received was more frequent.

There's no proof for or against your claim (or mine), but it's not fact.

You even have people from just last year and even a few months ago claiming that F2P players have higher drop rates than premium players.

Way I figure, it's random and chance.

Hell, you could just go on the game's chat and ask around.

I did so. No one had definite evidence other than one guy trying an F2P account, and he said it got normal drops.

So differing experiences all around.

You get six weapon drops a week, regardless of whether or not you're F2P or premium. One might get drops more often than the other, but if you play it fairly regularly you'll exhaust all of your drops before the week is out, premium player or not.

If you're premium you're also eligible for hat and accessory drops, but getting one doesn't take away from one of your six weapon drops.

That's my understanding of the drop system anyway.

 

[QtheMuse]

I love how he says that games cost an upwards of 100 million dollars to budget yet most games on kick starter seem to be progressing just fine with a 3 million dollar donation.
Game industry does not even come close to the movie industry when it comes to money. And anyone saying that they couldn;t make a Mass Effect clone game with 3 million dollars is lying or horrible at managing money.

 

[Negatempest]

So, no one has noticed how much of a rip-off AAA micro-transactions are? I'm actually quite surprised that people think that what EA is doing is acceptable. Also, HUGE difference between an AAA micro-transaction and DLC. They maybe be similar in some terms, but they are far from equal.

 

[MopBox]

Cliffy B Demonstrating his familiarity with the concept of false equivalence.

 

[Jopoho]

I've never actually spoken to anyone who owns the 360 version before!

Is it hard to get matches? Do you wish you bought the PC version?

Oh, I got the PC version later, before it went free to play but long after release. It's certainly a step-up.

That being said, finding matches was difficult, but not as hard as you might think, and I do miss the ability to store partial ubercharges, but that's neither here nor there.

 

[Masterdebator]

He lost me at the "I'm mad at Reddit/ memes". Grow up?

CliffyB: Microtransaction is Not a Dirty Word, EA is Not The Bad Guy

"Those talented artists, programmers, designers, and producers that spent their time building the game you love? They need to eat and feed their families. (Something that the hipster/boomerang kid generation seems to forget all too often.)"

It also seems petty game producers with seven-figure incomes forget that their "hipster" customers aren't endless fountains of disposable income, some unfortunately being smart enough to call out a major publisher for not handling DLC correctly (EA has proven to be a clueless, repeat offender in this regard).

 

[mitrovarr]

The problem with microtransactions is that they usually don't make games better. Let's go through the individual types of microtransactions and what is wrong with each one:

Microtransactions make single-player games easier: These are the microtransactions that let you skip stages, give you overpowered items, or whatnot. The problem is obvious; if you did the difficulty right, I shouldn't want to make the game easier. If I do, I should have a difficulty setting that doesn't cost anything to adjust. If I don't or it doesn't get the difficulty right, that's the developers screwing up the difficulty - bad game design. Another problem is that buying advantages using out-of-game money is well, cheating - I usually don't want to cheat in a single-player game and if I do, I better be able to do it for free. 90% of the time I cheat in single-player I'm using a console command to fix the consequences of a bug.

Microtransactions that add items or characters: The problem with these is that they never integrate into the game properly. Typically you are just given them, even if they're totally inappropriate for your stage in the game. They're usually overpowered, so it boils down to paying to cheat again. Finally, often, they're there to fill gaping omissions in the original game - a game might give you two rings slots for each of five characters, and then only put 3 decent rings in the entire game with the rest as DLC. That's deliberately broken game design, and everyone hates that.

Microtransactions that add visual only items: Who cares? First, if the game allow character appearance customization, I shouldn't have to pay for it, Second, it's pointless money wasting. See Oblivion horse armor. I guess it worked for TF2, but you know what? The game looked better without the stupid hats.

Microtransactions for small DLC: Not terrible in concept, but never seems to work right. First of all, sticking more levels in the middle of a game overpowers the character for the rest of it and wrecks the difficulty curve. Secondly, they're just so often garbage. Third, there's always the issue of them never really fitting into the game. Honestly I think the games are usually better off without them, even if you have them. It's like throwing more chapters into the middle of a book, that were written by a second, worse author on a deadline.

Microtransactions to cut down on the grind: Similar to reducing the difficulty, if I want to cut down the grind in a game, the developer either made too much grind or made the grind not fun. Either way, it's bad game design. Character development is supposed to be an element that makes games better, but so often, this makes the developer corrupt the process, making it deliberately tedious in order sell ways around it.

And so forth.

I don't object to the concept of microtransactions and DLC, but the concept has literally never improved a game that I know of, except for indy games in which it took the form of large expansion packs (which were cheap because the games themselves were cheap). The thing is, for microtransactions to be a good thing, the game has to be truly complete and fun without them, and they have to integrate well into the game to improve it. This never happens. The game is always released stripped of key elements, or padded out with tons of grind to make the player buy grind-away, or the game is good but the microtransation stuff is poorly-integrated trash. Developers have to do better if they want them to be accepted.