Clothing/Armor in gaming.

[DarkSeraphim02]

For the last few days I've had a thought rolling around in my head about the clothing/armor used in various games. Before I get into it though I want to point out that it is not my intention to start a thread demonizing said outfits.

I'm sure most of us have seen in many games how with male characters their armor tends to get more bulky and ornate as the player gets better and better sets, yet female characters tend to get more and more revealing. By it's self I've no issue with that, titilation has it's place, especially if the game is built with that in mind, like Tera or Scarlet blade (neither of which I've played, but I've seen a few videos).
My issue is with the mechanics behind this approach. It makes sense for a large, bulky suit of armor to offer better protection, more so if said protection comes at a cost of mobility, but in the case of most female characters, who often end up with outfits that only, barely, cover the bare minimum to avoid being flat out naked, it makes no sense for such an outfit to protect the wearer as much as the males outfit does.

Does this mean we should do away with hyper revealing armor for female characters, or male ones for that matter? no, of course not. Like I said titilation has it's place and there's nothing inherantly wrong with it if you want to put such outfits in your game.
Personally though I think such hyper revealing outfits should have different mechanics behind them. Instead of offering the same protection as some full suit of armor, they offer greater mobility, so while you might only be able to take a hit or two before dying, your ability to move and dodge makes you hard as hell to hit in the first place.

Not keeping such outfits limited to one gender would make it better as well, for example you could be running about as a female character in a bulky, ornate set of heavy armor, with outstanding defense but very little dodging ability, and your friend could be running their male character who is running about in a male version of said revealing armor, with crap defense, but such high mobility that hitting him is no small task.

Now granted I know most guys aren't going to want to play as a male character in an outfit like Kuja from FF9 or something, but I don't think reworking the mechanics would hurt much.

What say you Escapist, would you like to see more games try this approach or one like it?

 

[Vern5]

There are quite a few games that include armor with trade-offs between Protection and Mobility. I have yet to see armor with trade-offs that graphically illustrates these trade-offs.

With that in mind, I would love to see more games that value this sort of design. I could play said game as a scantily clad man with incredible grace and a bare-midriff. And when other players ask me "Vern, why do you wear armor that makes you look like a male stripper?" I could proudly respond "Have you seen the Dodge values on this outfit? Have fun trying to hit me, n00bs".

 

[Lilani]

-snip-

The thing is, if you're going for realism, armor that's built for mobility isn't designed to show more skin, at least in the areas that would make the armor qualify as "revealing." It would simply be made of different materials and in different ways to be lighter and more flexible. Skyrim does a good job at this--you have the lighter armor sets which are made of leathers and skins with only metals in certain places (or inherently lighter materials, like the elven armor) and the heavy armor which is made of heavy metals. The only places armor built for mobility might have no skin is around the elbows. But in any case, having "revealing" armor is just ridiculous. Putting aside the lack of protection from attacks, it's just not practical for any sort of adventurer who is outside a lot. Not covering your skin exposes you to the elements as well as bugs and poisonous plants. There's a reason people wear boots and long pants in the woods, even in the sweltering rainforests. And even in deserts it's smart to keep your skin and head covered so that you don't get severely sunburned.

So, long story short, you'll get just as much flexibility out of a cloth and leather tunic/trouser set as you'd get out of a loincloth, and minus the bug/sun exposure and extreme fashion statement. Which means there's no sidestepping the fact that the only reason for revealing armor is titillation. Sorry man--if you're going to try and add the element of practicality into the equation, having revealing armor simply doesn't make sense anymore.

 

[hazabaza1]

I think Guild Wars 2 was very good with this, in that while it had the standard heavy/medium/light system they were very equivalent for classes and genders.
So, male and female warriors and guardians who use heavy armour are chunky fuckers, stack like various brick shithouses and not showing anything apart from maybe the face. Medium armour is generally some bomb-ass trenchcoats and steampunk-style stuff. While light armour is some of the most amazing, frutiest shit I've ever seen and seeing the male tiger dudes running around in this stuff is amazing.

 

[J Tyran]

I could play said game as a scantily clad man with incredible grace and a bare-midriff. And when other players ask me "Vern, why do you wear armor that makes you look like a male stripper?" I could proudly respond "Have you seen the Dodge values on this outfit? Have fun trying to hit me, n00bs".

Iirc EQ was patched with a feature that gave wizards loads of bonuses with less gear on, eventually every character was running around in pants until they patched it out again.

 

[Vern5]

I could play said game as a scantily clad man with incredible grace and a bare-midriff. And when other players ask me "Vern, why do you wear armor that makes you look like a male stripper?" I could proudly respond "Have you seen the Dodge values on this outfit? Have fun trying to hit me, n00bs".

Iirc EQ was patched with a feature that gave wizards loads of bonuses with less gear on, eventually every character was running around in pants until they patched it out again.

That sounds awesome. Too awesome to be balanced properly.

The obvious downside to my character running around like he just left his shift at Chip n Dales would have to be dangers that just cannot be dodged. Sadly, those tear-away pants and bits of tape aren't going to save my character from any attacks that track or explode. At least, they shouldn't.

 

[DarkSeraphim02]

-snip-

The thing is, if you're going for realism, armor that's built for mobility isn't designed to show more skin, at least in the areas that would make the armor qualify as "revealing." It would simply be made of different materials and in different ways to be lighter and more flexible. Skyrim does a good job at this--you have the lighter armor sets which are made of leathers and skins with only metals in certain places (or inherently lighter materials, like the elven armor) and the heavy armor which is made of heavy metals. The only places armor built for mobility might have no skin is around the elbows. But in any case, having "revealing" armor is just ridiculous. Putting aside the lack of protection from attacks, it's just not practical for any sort of adventurer who is outside a lot. Not covering your skin exposes you to the elements as well as bugs and poisonous plants. There's a reason people wear boots and long pants in the woods, even in the sweltering rainforests. And even in deserts it's smart to keep your skin and head covered so that you don't get severely sunburned.

So, long story short, you'll get just as much flexibility out of a cloth and leather tunic/trouser set as you'd get out of a loincloth, and minus the bug/sun exposure and extreme fashion statement. Which means there's no sidestepping the fact that the only reason for revealing armor is titillation. Sorry man--if you're going to try and add the element of practicality into the equation, having revealing armor simply doesn't make sense anymore.

I actually agree with you, if you're going for realism what I proposed would be pretty stupid, as armor made of leather or lightweight metals would be more practical. I was saying that, of the less realistic games that opt to use said titillating armor it'd make more sense, at least to me, for them to behave mechanicly the way light armor in skyrim would. In a game going for a more realistic depiction of armor, if I saw a character wearing something that showed a lot of skin, I'd assume they were either flaunting what they had in their every day clothing, or were some sort of succubus/incubus type character.

My issue is not with the appearance or practicality of the characters armor, but how it affects the characters statistics.

 

[Miss G.]

For the last few days I've had a thought rolling around in my head about the clothing/armor used in various games. Before I get into it though I want to point out that it is not my intention to start a thread demonizing said outfits.

I'm sure most of us have seen in many games how with male characters their armor tends to get more bulky and ornate as the player gets better and better sets, yet female characters tend to get more and more revealing. By it's self I've no issue with that, titilation has it's place, especially if the game is built with that in mind, like Tera or Scarlet blade (neither of which I've played, but I've seen a few videos).
My issue is with the mechanics behind this approach. It makes sense for a large, bulky suit of armor to offer better protection, more so if said protection comes at a cost of mobility, but in the case of most female characters, who often end up with outfits that only, barely, cover the bare minimum to avoid being flat out naked, it makes no sense for such an outfit to protect the wearer as much as the males outfit does.

Does this mean we should do away with hyper revealing armor for female characters, or male ones for that matter? no, of course not. Like I said titilation has it's place and there's nothing inherantly wrong with it if you want to put such outfits in your game.
Personally though I think such hyper revealing outfits should have different mechanics behind them. Instead of offering the same protection as some full suit of armor, they offer greater mobility, so while you might only be able to take a hit or two before dying, your ability to move and dodge makes you hard as hell to hit in the first place.

Not keeping such outfits limited to one gender would make it better as well, for example you could be running about as a female character in a bulky, ornate set of heavy armor, with outstanding defense but very little dodging ability, and your friend could be running their male character who is running about in a male version of said revealing armor, with crap defense, but such high mobility that hitting him is no small task.

Now granted I know most guys aren't going to want to play as a male character in an outfit like Kuja from FF9 or something, but I don't think reworking the mechanics would hurt much.

What say you Escapist, would you like to see more games try this approach or one like it?

I put my male characters in dresses/revealing things if a game allows it (also Kuja's so pretty). I would like more games that would give clothing options like you propose - I mean it's already sorta done with rogue and mage outfits being lighter with accuracy, speed and magic buffs as a trade off of having nowhere near the same defensive capability as warrior class armor.

 

[J Tyran]

I could play said game as a scantily clad man with incredible grace and a bare-midriff. And when other players ask me "Vern, why do you wear armor that makes you look like a male stripper?" I could proudly respond "Have you seen the Dodge values on this outfit? Have fun trying to hit me, n00bs".

Iirc EQ was patched with a feature that gave wizards loads of bonuses with less gear on, eventually every character was running around in pants until they patched it out again.

That sounds awesome. Too awesome to be balanced properly.

The obvious downside to my character running around like he just left his shift at Chip n Dales would have to be dangers that just cannot be dodged. Sadly, those tear-away pants and bits of tape aren't going to save my character from any attacks that track or explode. At least, they shouldn't.

Stripper trousers in MMOs would be too funny anyway, run into a tavern then jump on the bar and hit /tear pants /dance. Then watch everyone run out.

 

[wintercoat]

I could play said game as a scantily clad man with incredible grace and a bare-midriff. And when other players ask me "Vern, why do you wear armor that makes you look like a male stripper?" I could proudly respond "Have you seen the Dodge values on this outfit? Have fun trying to hit me, n00bs".

Iirc EQ was patched with a feature that gave wizards loads of bonuses with less gear on, eventually every character was running around in pants until they patched it out again.

That sounds awesome. Too awesome to be balanced properly.

The obvious downside to my character running around like he just left his shift at Chip n Dales would have to be dangers that just cannot be dodged. Sadly, those tear-away pants and bits of tape aren't going to save my character from any attacks that track or explode. At least, they shouldn't.

Stripper trousers in MMOs would be too funny anyway, run into a tavern then jump on the bar and hit /tear pants /dance. Then watch everyone run out.

What MMOs have you been playing where the players would run out of the bar if that happened? Shit would be like a trainwreck. Ya just can't seem to look away.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Not keeping such outfits limited to one gender would make it better as well, for example you could be running about as a female character in a bulky, ornate set of heavy armor, with outstanding defense but very little dodging ability, and your friend could be running their male character who is running about in a male version of said revealing armor, with crap defense, but such high mobility that hitting him is no small task.

This is the important part. If you have men dressed in mail shirts and women wearing chainmail bikinis, there is a problem there. If everyone is wearing mail shirts, fine. If everyone is wearing scraps of fur, also fine.

Otherwise, don't see how this would work. Armour is there to cover you. You could argue not wearing armour would help, in that it'd be cheaper, lighter, less risk of heat exhaustion, and you don't get eaten by Magnodons which use magnetic fields to pull you towards them.

But that's really armour vs normal clothes, not different types of armour.

 

[Caiphus]

I don't know. I mean, I like boobs.

I really do.

Serious talk:

Weight systems do well. That doesn't necessarily mean that light armour = sexy and heavy armour = large slab of concrete that covers your character. But there's definitely a way to go about it. The weight system in Dragon's Dogma worked pretty well. I hear that Dark Souls is a very good example, although I've yet to play the game.

And, to be fair to women, chainmail bikinis are probably a pain. I know they're put in games almost exclusively for people in my demographic, so, you know.

So, in fantasy games, make armour smart/practical or whatever word you want to use, but keep it obviously female or male, if you know what I mean. Even if that still sounds lecherous. Probably the best middle ground.

 

[Smeatza]

Now granted I know most guys aren't going to want to play as a male character in an outfit like Kuja from FF9 or something, but I don't think reworking the mechanics would hurt much.

I fucking love Kuja, I'd play the effeminate, extravagant, camp male character in most games if I could, if only to pay tribute to Kuja.

OT: I do not find games fun when they get all bogged down in realism. Especially when it comes to things like fantasy settings where realism is only really a handicap.

 

[Hagi]

I don't think it'd make much sense for revealing armor to behave differently mechanically.

The effect it has on your mobility is probably even worse than the effect it has on protection. I mean have you ever tried to move in skin-tight thigh-high leather boots? And a small metal plate over your lady parts, the edges right at the spot where your legs will constantly chafe against it when moving? And the amount of 'support' those outfits provide for your well-endowed character?

If you're going to make them different mechanically then not only should they have little to no armor value they should also provide 50% reduced movement speed, 100% reduced evasion as well as dealing 1% of your maximum health in chafing damage per second ( oils would provide high chafing resistance for several minutes, but gradually decrease in effect ).

So, if you don't mind, I'd much prefer my plate bikini supermodels to have their regular armor and mobility. Much more fun that way.

 

[J Tyran]

I could play said game as a scantily clad man with incredible grace and a bare-midriff. And when other players ask me "Vern, why do you wear armor that makes you look like a male stripper?" I could proudly respond "Have you seen the Dodge values on this outfit? Have fun trying to hit me, n00bs".

Iirc EQ was patched with a feature that gave wizards loads of bonuses with less gear on, eventually every character was running around in pants until they patched it out again.

That sounds awesome. Too awesome to be balanced properly.

The obvious downside to my character running around like he just left his shift at Chip n Dales would have to be dangers that just cannot be dodged. Sadly, those tear-away pants and bits of tape aren't going to save my character from any attacks that track or explode. At least, they shouldn't.

Stripper trousers in MMOs would be too funny anyway, run into a tavern then jump on the bar and hit /tear pants /dance. Then watch everyone run out.

What MMOs have you been playing where the players would run out of the bar if that happened? Shit would be like a trainwreck. Ya just can't seem to look away.

Depends on the server really, I can think of more than a few communities where male players would think they could "catch the gayness" or some other foolishness.

 

[Keymik]

I have always liked the thought of making revealing clothes have the ability to make people miss you with their attacks.
Because they would be distracted by your near nakedness, which would be no matter what gender you are.

Then you would actually have a reason for making revealing outfits.
Because making female clothing(no matter if it's heavy armor or not) look like you're a stripper is generally just getting annoying.. I want my female characters to look cool, not slutty.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I don't know. I mean, I like boobs.

I really do.

Play a game where everyone is naked then. Also, everyone is a hermaphrodite, so everyone has boobs.

...

I think there are some furry games like that.

 

[A Weakgeek]

When the standard fantasy armors have enough ornate carvings to decorate the wall of china, while being colored in all the colors of the rainbow, (sometimes all the same time) with ridiculous spikes and huge shoulderpads, I think revealing outfits are least of our problems. (This is coming from a male armor enthousiast) In my opinion adding a healthy truckload of realism in most games armor design would be good. That would also include unisex armor ofcourse.