CNN overreacting and claiming Manga is child porn

[trlkly]

Here's a question for you.

Does the desire to want to have sex with a consenting age adult who does not consent to having sex with you mean you want/desire to rape her?

I'll be honest; I held off your question for last because it gave me the most pause. It is a rather good point, and certainly valid given my language thus far.

To answer, it would depend on if the desired's disinterest is what draws the interest on the pursuer, and in what way. I'll subdivide.

Firstly, to speak broadly, if the desired were to fail to cause arousal if they were willing, but is attractive since they aren't, that would be a red flag. However, at this stage, I wouldn't conclude that they desire to rape just yet. That would require answering the matter of motivation.

If the motivation is to dominate, to control and subdue the desire's will, regardless of their enjoyment or suffering, or worse, entirely due to the suffering, then yes, that would be a desire to rape.

I know that answer's very incomplete, but I'm short on time, so I'll jump to my concluded point, and will provide clarification of the above if you request.

Even if you are attracted to someone that doesn't want you, even if you want to have sex with them, it is possible to feel those things without wanting to rape them. You aren't attracted to the aspect of the rejection, you're drawn to whatever it is you were drawn to. With a pedophile, what attracts them is the child's, well, childishness, which, by definition, is an aspect that cannot be separated from rape.

By that same logic, then, a pedophile doesn't desire to rape children unless what they find attractive is the child's inability to give consent. That's the aspect that is rape, not the attraction itself.

Also, a pedophile is not necessarily attracted to childishness--at least, if you are using the usual definition of that word. Childishness usually refers to a behavior. A pedophile is actually attracted to the physical form of a child of their preferred sex. If childishness were enough, pedophiles would easily be able to find adults who will act like children. I don't even mean infantilization. Just the basic "whose you're daddy" roleplay involves one person acting like a child.

 

[Bashfluff]

We all have outlandish sexual predilections and fantasies. If we make the argument that these people cannot separate their fantasies from reality, then the same must necessarily apply to us, as sexual creatures and as gamers. This is an battle we've already been fighting, and it would be hypocritical for us to now take the other side because of our knee jerk reactions to the content in question; that's what we slam others for doing.

 

[persephone]

First things first... many 10 year olds do have boobs. I did. I bought my first bra at 8, as do many other girls these days. This is especially problematic on small frames because it is so noticeable. Some parents these days tend to freak out on it:
http://www.circleofmoms.com/moms-with-school-age-kids/help-my-10-year-old-is-growing-breasts-where-do-we-start-664170
This may be helpful:
http://kidshealth.org/teen/sexual_health/changing_body/start_developing.html

ALSO having more girls these days with breasts developing at 7-10 should make it even more important not to sexualize young girls or give sexualized characters child like features as is often popular in anime. Giving sexualized women " child like faces and appearance" should be condemned due to the impact this can have on young girls AND on how they are viewed by others.

Women are not "little dolls" and should not be portrayed as such.

Huh, it's up to many now? I figured a few here and there, maybe. Damn, that's changed. Now I feel old and out of it. Then again, not like I have a reason to be checking 10 year old chest sizes lol.

I got my first bra in third grade, and that was twenty years ago. Granted, I was one of few who needed a bra that early, but by fifth grade -- which is ten and eleven year olds -- just about everyone in my grade needed a bra. They didn't have anything resembling cleavage, mind -- these boobs would not really bounce or sag, nor could you really press them together. But if one of us wore a white t-shirt or anything similar, we'd need a bra for modesty's sake. (Which was awkward, cause our PE uniforms had white shirts, and a lot of us weren't used to bras, such that for the first few weeks of school, at least one girl in my PE class always confided in her peers that she'd forgotten to put on a bra that day and she was quite nervous it would be noticed.)

My dad was freaked out that my sister and I started developing that early, but honestly, it's just a matter of nutrition. When nutrition's good enough in a society, you hit puberty a lot earlier. Part of the weirdness with Japan (and I honestly forget where the articles are about this, sorry, no link) is that a few generations ago, nutrition was a lot poorer, with the result that 16 and 18 year old girls looked like 10 and 12 year old girls do now, due to puberty being much later then. So there are a lot of people who grew up thinking that "this is a sexy young woman," when she looks about twelve to us. And even though nutrition's improved and puberty comes sooner, that idea of sexiness remains, and ... well, it leads to kiddie porn. Not good. Especially cause it's kinda entrenched in the culture now.

Along similar lines, I was fully grown at fourteen. Not everyone stops growing then, but I looked just about as adult then as I do now. Freaked out a friend of mine who knew me at fourteen, traveled the world, came back and met me again at eighteen. He looked like he'd seen a ghost; he'd expected me to keep growing, but I didn't!

 

[sageoftruth]

One question I want to bring to the table is, are animated characters really even in the same category as real people? Everyone's concerned about the idea of manga influencing pedophilia, but have you ever compared a Moe girl to a real one? It's like she's a completely different species. If someone's obsession with animated girls went too far, I'd expect the person to lose interest in real females altogether, rather than seek them out.

 

[Soushi]

CNN uses hyperbole, and in other news fish swim in the sea, bears crap in the woods and CNN producers need a few rousing rounds of electroshock therapy.

 

[Brownie80]

In case you didn't hear, someone from CNN did a story worthy of something that might appear in a magazine that tells about appearances of Elvis and aliens. It claims that manga is child porn.. seriously?.. ok they sought out one manga in particular, a series called Doll FAll 2.

i've never heard of it before but I did check out the first chapter of the horror manga series.. and there's virtually no nudity (except one scene that shows a 16 year old girl girl bathing, but you only see her bare back, nothing else),some blood and gore at the end of the chapter and one scene of a girl getting burned by cigarettes in a flash back.. but I didn't see no evidence of any child pornography anywhere..

[snip]

What does everyone think about this?

This is coming from the same news source that, during the Sandy Hook shooting, blamed several non-violent or non-gun-utilizing games as the cause of the shooter's behavior. They also acquired this "he's a gamer" information from the shooter's brother's facebook page... OH, and they originally thought said facebook page was that of the shooter and immediately blamed him at first for the shooting, believing all of the "information" they gathered from that facebook page to be accurate.

Yeah... CNN is as bad or worse than FoxNews at this point. I generally don't watch, believe, or listen to any of their news stories because I don't trust they actually did any real research to present that information. Anymore, it feels like they point a camera at a guy (or girl) and ask them to read something someone scribbled up that vaguely forms an opinion or idea in an effort to call it news. All the while failing to realize just how stupid and ignorant the lot of them have become over the past few years.

In case you didn't hear, someone from CNN did a story worthy of something that might appear in a magazine that tells about appearances of Elvis and aliens. It claims that manga is child porn.. seriously?.. ok they sought out one manga in particular, a series called Doll FAll 2.

i've never heard of it before but I did check out the first chapter of the horror manga series.. and there's virtually no nudity (except one scene that shows a 16 year old girl girl bathing, but you only see her bare back, nothing else),some blood and gore at the end of the chapter and one scene of a girl getting burned by cigarettes in a flash back.. but I didn't see no evidence of any child pornography anywhere..

[snip]

What does everyone think about this?

This is coming from the same news source that, during the Sandy Hook shooting, blamed several non-violent or non-gun-utilizing games as the cause of the shooter's behavior. They also acquired this "he's a gamer" information from the shooter's brother's facebook page... OH, and they originally thought said facebook page was that of the shooter and immediately blamed him at first for the shooting, believing all of the "information" they gathered from that facebook page to be accurate.

Yeah... CNN is as bad or worse than FoxNews at this point. I generally don't watch, believe, or listen to any of their news stories because I don't trust they actually did any real research to present that information. Anymore, it feels like they point a camera at a guy (or girl) and ask them to read something someone scribbled up that vaguely forms an opinion or idea in an effort to call it news. All the while failing to realize just how stupid and ignorant the lot of them have become over the past few years.

Wrong. Fox News if anything banged the video games cause violence drum at least 100x more than CNN. Fox News is without a doubt WAY worse than CNN

 

[NiPah]

One question I want to bring to the table is, are animated characters really even in the same category as real people? Everyone's concerned about the idea of manga influencing pedophilia, but have you ever compared a Moe girl to a real one? It's like she's a completely different species. If someone's obsession with animated girls went too far, I'd expect the person to lose interest in real females altogether, rather than seek them out.

Spoiler

On topic: Wow this topic is still going on eh? I'm pretty sure this topic has lasted longer then CNN's relevance.
It's a crap news article made to get views, CNN is no longer a news station but it just a clickbait ad station...

 

[DefunctTheory]

Wrong. Fox News if anything banged the video games cause violence drum at least 100x more than CNN. Fox News is without a doubt WAY worse than CNN

CNN is more insidious then Fox.

They have, for over a year, been sneaking in video game cause violence 'studies' at the end of pretty much article on every shooting committed by someone who probably played a video game at least once in his life. They don't push it, they don't shout it from the roof tops in the obviously bullshit way that Fox does. They just keep mentioning it, over and over and over, until all someone remembers is hearing about the violence=video games from multiple sources they can't remember off hand.

It's completely disgusting, and I'm not talking about blaming videos games - its the underhanded way to convince the masses. The devil doesn't deceive you by telling bold face lies, but by whispering in your ear.

 

[Brownie80]

Wrong. Fox News if anything banged the video games cause violence drum at least 100x more than CNN. Fox News is without a doubt WAY worse than CNN

CNN is more insidious then Fox.

They have, for over a year, been sneaking in video game cause violence 'studies' at the end of pretty much article on every shooting committed by someone who probably played a video game at least once in his life. They don't push it, they don't shout it from the roof tops in the obviously bullshit way that Fox does. They just keep mentioning it, over and over and over, until all someone remembers is hearing about the violence=video games from multiple sources they can't remember off hand.

It's completely disgusting, and I'm not talking about blaming videos games - its the underhanded way to convince the masses. The devil doesn't deceive you by telling bold face lies, but by whispering in your ear.

It must have been hard to make up a story with no evidence and no factual basis. However this isn't a conversation about conspiracy theories, this is about facts. And the FACT is this: Fox News is worse than CNN. If you think CNN hates video games more, than I just don't know what to say to you.

 

[DefunctTheory]

Wrong. Fox News if anything banged the video games cause violence drum at least 100x more than CNN. Fox News is without a doubt WAY worse than CNN

CNN is more insidious then Fox.

They have, for over a year, been sneaking in video game cause violence 'studies' at the end of pretty much article on every shooting committed by someone who probably played a video game at least once in his life. They don't push it, they don't shout it from the roof tops in the obviously bullshit way that Fox does. They just keep mentioning it, over and over and over, until all someone remembers is hearing about the violence=video games from multiple sources they can't remember off hand.

It's completely disgusting, and I'm not talking about blaming videos games - its the underhanded way to convince the masses. The devil doesn't deceive you by telling bold face lies, but by whispering in your ear.

It must have been hard to make up a story with no evidence and no factual basis. However this isn't a conversation about conspiracy theories, this is about facts. And the FACT is this: Fox News is worse than CNN. If you think CNN hates video games more, than I just don't know what to say to you.

It's not a conspiracy theory - its what they did.

And I didn't say they were worse, per say - Only that if Fox is evil (It isn't), then so is CNN.

EDIT: And i realize you didn't say Fox was evil, but you get what I mean.

 

[Brownie80]

Wrong. Fox News if anything banged the video games cause violence drum at least 100x more than CNN. Fox News is without a doubt WAY worse than CNN

CNN is more insidious then Fox.

They have, for over a year, been sneaking in video game cause violence 'studies' at the end of pretty much article on every shooting committed by someone who probably played a video game at least once in his life. They don't push it, they don't shout it from the roof tops in the obviously bullshit way that Fox does. They just keep mentioning it, over and over and over, until all someone remembers is hearing about the violence=video games from multiple sources they can't remember off hand.

It's completely disgusting, and I'm not talking about blaming videos games - its the underhanded way to convince the masses. The devil doesn't deceive you by telling bold face lies, but by whispering in your ear.

It must have been hard to make up a story with no evidence and no factual basis. However this isn't a conversation about conspiracy theories, this is about facts. And the FACT is this: Fox News is worse than CNN. If you think CNN hates video games more, than I just don't know what to say to you.

It's not a conspiracy theory - its what they did.

And I didn't say they were worse, per say - Only that if Fox is evil (It isn't), then so is CNN.

EDIT: And i realize you didn't say Fox was evil, but you get what I mean.

Alright, then tell me which news network gave Jack Thompson the microphone to spew out gross misinformation about GTA or Bully or Mortal Kombat or Counter Strike, etc. It was Fox. Which network said Mass Effect was basically showing pornography in a game "marketed for kids." That's right, Fox. Which network rallied against the development of Six Days in Fallujah with an obvious bias? Fox News. And you are right, Fox isn't evil. They are just wrong.

 

[SilverUchiha]

In case you didn't hear, someone from CNN did a story worthy of something that might appear in a magazine that tells about appearances of Elvis and aliens. It claims that manga is child porn.. seriously?.. ok they sought out one manga in particular, a series called Doll FAll 2.

i've never heard of it before but I did check out the first chapter of the horror manga series.. and there's virtually no nudity (except one scene that shows a 16 year old girl girl bathing, but you only see her bare back, nothing else),some blood and gore at the end of the chapter and one scene of a girl getting burned by cigarettes in a flash back.. but I didn't see no evidence of any child pornography anywhere..

[snip]

What does everyone think about this?

This is coming from the same news source that, during the Sandy Hook shooting, blamed several non-violent or non-gun-utilizing games as the cause of the shooter's behavior. They also acquired this "he's a gamer" information from the shooter's brother's facebook page... OH, and they originally thought said facebook page was that of the shooter and immediately blamed him at first for the shooting, believing all of the "information" they gathered from that facebook page to be accurate.

Yeah... CNN is as bad or worse than FoxNews at this point. I generally don't watch, believe, or listen to any of their news stories because I don't trust they actually did any real research to present that information. Anymore, it feels like they point a camera at a guy (or girl) and ask them to read something someone scribbled up that vaguely forms an opinion or idea in an effort to call it news. All the while failing to realize just how stupid and ignorant the lot of them have become over the past few years.

Wrong. Fox News if anything banged the video games cause violence drum at least 100x more than CNN. Fox News is without a doubt WAY worse than CNN

You read my post right? I wasn't saying which was worse based on the merit of who railed against games the most. I was saying who was worse on just getting the basic facts of the news story accurate. CNN couldn't even pin down who the shooter was for the Sandy Hook incident without getting it embarrassingly wrong first and dragging and innocent person's name through the mud in the process. Yes, I'm sure Fox has had their fair share of blunders in this regard, but none in recent memory to my knowledge that are THIS egregious.

 

[sageoftruth]

One question I want to bring to the table is, are animated characters really even in the same category as real people? Everyone's concerned about the idea of manga influencing pedophilia, but have you ever compared a Moe girl to a real one? It's like she's a completely different species. If someone's obsession with animated girls went too far, I'd expect the person to lose interest in real females altogether, rather than seek them out.

Spoiler

On topic: Wow this topic is still going on eh? I'm pretty sure this topic has lasted longer then CNN's relevance.
It's a crap news article made to get views, CNN is no longer a news station but it just a clickbait ad station...

Yikes! Scary. Anyway, it looks like CNN succeeded in stirring up a hornets nest. It's a pretty hot button issue and even if CNN did a crap job at researching it, people with more knowledge stepped in to offer their opinions. At this point, I don't think anyone even cares about the CNN report.

 

[trlkly]

Yikes! Scary. Anyway, it looks like CNN succeeded in stirring up a hornets nest. It's a pretty hot button issue and even if CNN did a crap job at researching it, people with more knowledge stepped in to offer their opinions. At this point, I don't think anyone even cares about the CNN report.

Well, I care enough to mention it when people talk about how crappy CNN is. I did it on my home forum and on TGWTG just today.

 

[sageoftruth]

Yikes! Scary. Anyway, it looks like CNN succeeded in stirring up a hornets nest. It's a pretty hot button issue and even if CNN did a crap job at researching it, people with more knowledge stepped in to offer their opinions. At this point, I don't think anyone even cares about the CNN report.

Well, I care enough to mention it when people talk about how crappy CNN is. I did it on my home forum and on TGWTG just today.

Yeah. CNN, MSNBC, Fox and a bunch of others. Pretty much why I never get my news on TV.

 

[Deadcyde]

Are you sure you're quoting the right person? None of that is applicable to what I said.

Yes you're right, i misclicked the quote button, i'll fix that.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

I actually see where Lil Devils was coming from. In the news recently we see more and more cases of men sexualising REAL young girls, not in a pedophilic way, but in a way that leads to totally inappropriate actions.

For example the girl sent home from her prom because she "distracted" the 40 year old parents present.

The young girl told off by her principle for showing shoulders which made him hot and bothered.

In both cases the perpetrators were (Rightly) called out on their immense bullshit. But it happens. And if we normalize sexualising young girls i see it becoming more acceptable.

Its important to remember, pedophilia isnt the only risk (maybe not even any risk) when we make sexualising young girls acceptable. Real girls now have to live in a world where its ok for older men to be sexually attracted to them. Sure the chances of something untoward happening sexually are very low. But the behavior toward them will change, as evidenced by creepy parents/principles punishing young girls for being "provocative". We create a hostile and scary culture for young girls, one where the way people behave toward them will be influenced by a sexual desire they dont properly comprehend yet. Their lives can be touched by this issue without it spilling over into full blown physical abuse. Culture is important.

 

[Relish in Chaos]

I actually see where Lil Devils was coming from. In the news recently we see more and more cases of men sexualising REAL young girls, not in a pedophilic way, but in a way that leads to totally inappropriate actions.

For example the girl sent home from her prom because she "distracted" the 40 year old parents present.

The young girl told off by her principle for showing shoulders which made him hot and bothered.

In both cases the perpetrators were (Rightly) called out on their immense bullshit. But it happens. And if we normalize sexualising young girls i see it becoming more acceptable.

I require proof of these stories, as well as proof that this is some kind of trend and that adults never found teenage girls attractive before now.

Not to mention, I don't see how a principal telling off a young girl for showing shoulders (and, in this context, it's more the personal problem of the principal than "oh no, little girls are being sexualised more") is that much different than school dress codes forbidding short skirts, clothing which isn't even inherently sexual (you see just as much flesh from girls walking round in town during the summer). No more than bare shoulders, anyway.

Its important to remember, pedophilia isnt the only risk (maybe not even any risk) when we make sexualising young girls acceptable. Real girls now have to live in a world where its ok for older men to be sexually attracted to them. Sure the chances of something untoward happening sexually are very low. But the behavior toward them will change, as evidenced by creepy parents/principles punishing young girls for being "provocative". We create a hostile and scary culture for young girls, one where the way people behave toward them will be influenced by a sexual desire they dont properly comprehend yet. Their lives can be touched by this issue without it spilling over into full blown physical abuse. Culture is important.

Women, whether they be 12 or 22, have always had to live in a shitty culture where they're pressured to look good, or men they don't want to be attracted to them are. Part of it's puberty, part of it's us shoving the images of Disney princesses and Barbie dolls down their throats since the 60s.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

I require proof of these stories, as well as proof that this is some kind of trend and that adults never found teenage girls attractive before now.

Happy to oblige for the first claim. Never made the second. I pointed out its more commonly seen in the media. The prevalence is something i cant comment on.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/va-teen-booted-prom-chaperones-ogled-article-1.1791459

http://gawker.com/teen-girl-ejected-from-prom-because-horny-dads-cant-sto-1575694507

This was really high profile.

Second case was slightly less high profile but i follow a blogger who sourced it well, it wasnt merely a case of dress code violation, there was blatently (As in everyone admitted immediately) something a little strange going on here, i'm certain the principle was fired or suspended but i cant track it down at the moment, ill keep an eye out and source it as soon as i can.

Women, whether they be 12 or 22, have always had to live in a shitty culture where they're pressured to look good, or men they don't want to be attracted to them are. Part of it's puberty, part of it's us shoving the images of Disney princesses and Barbie dolls down their throats since the 60s.

Right, and im saying that normalising a fetish for very young girls will not make their lives easier. I mean cmon we have, as i sourced, a group of fathers who all had issues dealing with their sexual attraction to an underage girl and decided the best way to deal with it was to punish her by making her leave.

I trust most people not to physically abuse young girls if we normalise this sort of attraction and accept that evidence is needed to link the two. I dont trust them not to behave like this. I dont want to make this behaviour MORE acceptable by saying "The attraction part was A ok, you dads are perfectly allowed to become horny at a school prom gawping at a 17 year old and we should all accept that, what you cant do is make her leave!" because frankly i dont trust them not to act out in that way. People will behave differently. I think as a society we should discourage the oversexualisation of women. Actively accepting the sexualisation of young girls doesnt seem to help this at all.

 

[Relish in Chaos]

I require proof of these stories, as well as proof that this is some kind of trend and that adults never found teenage girls attractive before now.

Happy to oblige for the first claim. Never made the second. I pointed out its more commonly seen in the media. The prevalence is something i cant comment on.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/va-teen-booted-prom-chaperones-ogled-article-1.1791459

http://gawker.com/teen-girl-ejected-from-prom-because-horny-dads-cant-sto-1575694507

This was really high profile.

OK, first off, the girl was 17 years old. That might be a child in legal terms, but not sexual development terms. She has the body of an adult woman and, therefore, it's unsurprising that you'd get men attracted to her. We're talking about children below the age of 16, not borderline adults with much more knowledge about puberty and sex than them.

Secondly, the fact that she was kicked out for such an irrational reason (not to mention being the only one, despite the fact that other girls at said prom were wearing the same length of dress) is evidence of sexism, not child sexualisation. Here's her quote:

"I'm not responsible for some perverted 45 year old dad lusting after me because I have a sparkly dress on and a big a-- for a teenager," she wrote in the blog post. "And if you think I am, then maybe you're part of the problem."

Thirdly, Virginia's a Southern town, and Southern towns are known for traditionally being socially conservative. Her boyfriend being black could be a factor in why she was getting so many looks and the dance organiser said something about other people complaining about her giving guys "impure thoughts" (whether or not the organiser was telling the truth, or just not wanting to say outright, "They don't like the fact that your date's black" is unknown).

Second case was slightly less high profile but i follow a blogger who sourced it well, it wasnt merely a case of dress code violation, there was blatently (As in everyone admitted immediately) something a little strange going on here, i'm certain the principle was fired or suspended but i cant track it down at the moment, ill keep an eye out and source it as soon as i can.

Women, whether they be 12 or 22, have always had to live in a shitty culture where they're pressured to look good, or men they don't want to be attracted to them are. Part of it's puberty, part of it's us shoving the images of Disney princesses and Barbie dolls down their throats since the 60s.

Right, and im saying that normalising a fetish for very young girls will not make their lives easier. I mean cmon we have, as i sourced, a group of fathers who all had issues dealing with their sexual attraction to an underage girl and decided the best way to deal with it was to punish her by making her leave.

I trust most people not to physically abuse young girls if we normalise this sort of attraction and accept that evidence is needed to link the two. I dont trust them not to behave like this. I dont want to make this behaviour MORE acceptable by saying "The attraction part was A ok, you dads are perfectly allowed to become horny at a school prom gawping at a 17 year old and we should all accept that, what you cant do is make her leave!" because frankly i dont trust them not to act out in that way. People will behave differently. I think as a society we should discourage the oversexualisation of women. Actively accepting the sexualisation of young girls doesnt seem to help this at all.

Well...I'm sorry, but I just don't see the extreme that you and Lil_Devils are claiming. Maybe it's because I don't live in the US (I live in the UK), but the way I see it, there is a problem when it comes to the way the media sexualise children, but it's by no means normalised or accepted. People know it's bad to give Barbies to little girls as toys while you give Action Men to boys, or the fact that Miley Cyrus is seen as a role model for many teenage girls. But it's not much different than how it was in the past, and I've given two examples.

Just because you see something in a sexual manner for a long time doesn't mean you'll suddenly start to find it sexy. Otherwise, we'd have a lot less gay men in the world, but for some reason, they're apparently immune to the image bombardment of pretty, thin, white girls we're automatically meant to find stunning. I honestly can't think of any real-life child models or child actresses that are legitimately sexualised like adult women, purely because people are so much more antsy about paedophilia that most wouldn't dare do so, and when it does happen, they're immediately called for it. Are there some dads that do find Elle Fanning hot? Yes, but they're not representative of the majority.

I don't know what more I can say to help you see my perspective. But there's literally no difference between your argument and the "violent video games cause violent people" argument, just because the former includes sexual arousal as a factor. It's still all entertainment. Silly, unrealistic entertainment. I went to my Year 13 prom two days ago, and there were 17- and 18-year-old girls there wearing prom dresses a good deal shorter than what that Virginia girl was wearing, and with more cleavage too. No male teachers said anything about it. Even my male best friend, who I'd invited along because he'd left 2 years ago, only ever mentioned once how girls to whom he never paid much attention had "suddenly gotten attractive". To which I replied, "Well, they matured. Puberty's a funny thing."

I mean, what, should someone feel ashamed for finding a sexually mature female...sexually attractive? No-one's really fucking parading around an anatomically correct nine-year-old on billboards and magazines saying, "Oh, look at how sassy and sexy she is! Look at her dress, look at her legs, look at those barely-formed lumps on her chest!" You're just making a problem bigger than it actually is.