Sensationalistic hypocritical journalism, gets shot down, again. Also, tread necros in real life. lol
CNN RapeLay Controversy Sparks Angry Response
- Thread starter Austin MacKenzie
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I love how morality has been jumped over this entire thread. What makes America's morals any more valid than another country's? Surprise people...Morals aren't something that the human race has been born with since the dawn of time, they are forever changing and evolving. One hundred years from now we might consider something in our everyday lives today completely immoral. You needn't go far into the past to find things that were acceptable back then, yet are now considered immoral.
I in no way condone rape, I just think using morality is flimsy, at best, ground to attack from. As an example off the top of my head in the Yanomamo(can't seem to get the correct accents to appear) culture a husband would be morally obligated to beat his wife if she failed in a specific task.
I in no way condone rape, I just think using morality is flimsy, at best, ground to attack from. As an example off the top of my head in the Yanomamo(can't seem to get the correct accents to appear) culture a husband would be morally obligated to beat his wife if she failed in a specific task.
It IS a sick concept for a game, but fair play to Mr. Nogami.
Of course, just because their crime is lower, it doesn't mean that Japanese women aren't treated as well as women in other countries are, IE: more rights, freedom of speech, etc. So as low as the crime rate is, the country is still living in a bit darker age than other modern countries. *shrug*
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Of course, just because their crime is lower, it doesn't mean that Japanese women aren't treated as well as women in other countries are, IE: more rights, freedom of speech, etc. So as low as the crime rate is, the country is still living in a bit darker age than other modern countries. *shrug*
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The United States hasn't had a female president yet, man they must be living in a darker age than Costa Rica.Nemu said:
TY for assuming I'm American.
And the first female president elected in 2010 =/= great social consciousness.
Course this "debate" doesn't negate the fact that Japanese women are still treated as inferior compared to countries like those in North America and Europe, now does it? The game is still disgusting.
And the first female president elected in 2010 =/= great social consciousness.
Course this "debate" doesn't negate the fact that Japanese women are still treated as inferior compared to countries like those in North America and Europe, now does it? The game is still disgusting.
CNN just got a can of verbal whoop-ass from Nogami.
Chances are CNN won't respond though. They know they'll make themselves look like major dumbasses to the internet.
Chances are CNN won't respond though. They know they'll make themselves look like major dumbasses to the internet.
It wasn't meant to be a valid point or reflect the country within which YOU live. My statement was made to reflect the fallacy through which your logic works. Because something in Japan is not the way it within the society where you live, or within another "modern"(Countries can be modern for a number of different reasons) country, that automatically makes it inferior? No matter how enlightenend you believe you may be, values and beliefs are different everywhere. And different does not necessarily mean worse.Nemu said:
50 to 100 years frome now America, the UK and France(For example, I really don't care if you live there) may all believe that women are superior to men and act as such, by then suppose Japan views the sexes to be completely equal with none of the problems(you throw out without citations) you stated, it would still be considered to be in a "darker time" by you.
CNN drove straight into a minefield, and got what was coming. The game has been out for four years, if they ever were foolish enough to attempt this story, they should have done it sooner.
Egg in face, boot in mouth, humble pie for dinner, and one hell of a hole to dig yourself out off CNN, nicely done.
Egg in face, boot in mouth, humble pie for dinner, and one hell of a hole to dig yourself out off CNN, nicely done.
Here is my 2 cents.
First off, comparing rape rates is just plain retarded from nation to nation.
Japans legal age (LAst I checked, could have changed) is 16, which already eliminates many statutory rape cases.
Japans current law enforcement standards for handling rape cases is god awful. They half the time deny the rape victim medical treatment (Instead of immedietly getting a rape kit done to her) and instead interrogate the woman, bring her back to the scene of the crime and have her reenact the sexual poses, ask her "Why didnt you fight harder?" and "How many sexual partners have you had?" Yes, Japan IS making strides in gender equality, but they still have a long way to go (Not saying we are perfectly equal mind you).
It is a fact proven by many studies in Japan that most rapes go unreported, as, the way Japanese police handle rape cases, leave women to embaressed or ashamed to actually report their rape.
And there have been many points in which a rape case was found in favor of the accused, simply because they believed the Police testimony over actual evidence.
In Japan, you also have to have a certain extent of injuries for rape to be accepted, unlike in the US where as long as the woman says no, and you stick/keep your dick in her, it is immedietly a rape case.
So, while I love seeing CNN (Would have been better if it was FOX) get owned, I still have to say, Mr Nagomi is in NO position to talk down.
As for the game... Rape Fantasy is a common fantasy, even many woman have it (Infact, one of my best friends who WAS raped, still gets aroused from rape fantasies. sick, but, what human psychologically isn't?) And no video game is going to make you go out and rape. Wanna know what made me almost take a shotgun to school and do some pest control? Inept teachers blaming ME for bullies picking on me, siding with the bullies, and not doing enough to stop the bastards. NOT Violent video games, infact, those actually helped me release stress and curve the wish to do so.
Wanna know why rapists rape? Not because of hornyness, no. They do it for the feel of control (And mommy issues)
Honestly, CNN needs to stop scapegoating and sensationalizing (Like that will happen) and Mr Nagomi needs to learn to fix his own sinking ship before pointing out the holes in ours (Like that will happen)
First off, comparing rape rates is just plain retarded from nation to nation.
Japans legal age (LAst I checked, could have changed) is 16, which already eliminates many statutory rape cases.
Japans current law enforcement standards for handling rape cases is god awful. They half the time deny the rape victim medical treatment (Instead of immedietly getting a rape kit done to her) and instead interrogate the woman, bring her back to the scene of the crime and have her reenact the sexual poses, ask her "Why didnt you fight harder?" and "How many sexual partners have you had?" Yes, Japan IS making strides in gender equality, but they still have a long way to go (Not saying we are perfectly equal mind you).
It is a fact proven by many studies in Japan that most rapes go unreported, as, the way Japanese police handle rape cases, leave women to embaressed or ashamed to actually report their rape.
And there have been many points in which a rape case was found in favor of the accused, simply because they believed the Police testimony over actual evidence.
In Japan, you also have to have a certain extent of injuries for rape to be accepted, unlike in the US where as long as the woman says no, and you stick/keep your dick in her, it is immedietly a rape case.
So, while I love seeing CNN (Would have been better if it was FOX) get owned, I still have to say, Mr Nagomi is in NO position to talk down.
As for the game... Rape Fantasy is a common fantasy, even many woman have it (Infact, one of my best friends who WAS raped, still gets aroused from rape fantasies. sick, but, what human psychologically isn't?) And no video game is going to make you go out and rape. Wanna know what made me almost take a shotgun to school and do some pest control? Inept teachers blaming ME for bullies picking on me, siding with the bullies, and not doing enough to stop the bastards. NOT Violent video games, infact, those actually helped me release stress and curve the wish to do so.
Wanna know why rapists rape? Not because of hornyness, no. They do it for the feel of control (And mommy issues)
Honestly, CNN needs to stop scapegoating and sensationalizing (Like that will happen) and Mr Nagomi needs to learn to fix his own sinking ship before pointing out the holes in ours (Like that will happen)
That is quite the argument, and exactly an argument that puts raping in games before raping in reality. I wouldn't drive around in New York in a stolen car, killing hookers and blowing shit up, tho the idea of action is intriguing for human beings in general, else why would we have movies, books, shooting ranges and war-reenactments? I'd rather have a rapist sitting at home beating off to this stuff than loose in a subway station at night.WhiteTiger225 said:
And really, for one, as Andy Chalk [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/the-needles/7388-Lets-Not-Ban-RapeLay] and many others have said a million times, these games aren't for children, they are for mature adults who just so seem to get aroused by this material. It's not like it's gonna make every person playing it a rapist, just like not everyone who's played counter-strike is running around shooting people. There are these cases, but generalizing is going in the wrong direction. Sick people play this game =|= all people who play this are sick (i'd wager to say).
yay for dead-
Alright...Well for starters the first point is blown away because the legal age is 20 since 1948. Only recently however there have been debates about lowering it to 18.WhiteTiger225 said:
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coming_of_age#Japan (for lack of a better and handy internet source)
and: http://japaneselaw.blogspot.com/2009/07/age-of-majority-in-japan.html
Rape victims are not always treated perfectly either in the US. Also just about as many rapes go unreported in the US.
See: http://www.3news.co.nz/Most-rapes-in-the-US-go-unreported-or-unsolved/tabid/417/articleID/129051/Default.aspx
And: http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=b8dc0e0fd422040b8eb1691cde592676
And: http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/ovc/ncvrw/2005/pg5o.html
One article was posted earlier about a woman being raped in Japan and suddenly all the worst things are a proven fact...I have just posted multiple articles stating the same types of things about the US. Similar types of figures can more than likely be found for other first world nations. There is no high ground on this issue no matter how hard you try.
Both countries have had cases where the alleged rapist has won in court, some may have been guilty and some may have been innocent.
Lastly according to Interpol all it takes in Japan to constitute rape is forcing a person through violence or intimidation into sexual intercourse. So unless I'm mistaken that "has to cause damage" is debunked as well.
See: http://www.interpol.int/public/Children/SexualAbuse/NationalLaws/csaJapan.asp
*Edit, fixed a sentence to be less ambiguous.
I don't care about culture, feelings, or anything else. May we not forget that this is a game that allows the player to participate in a sick fantasy. Rape is a horrible, horrible thing and to have a game that promotes it is shameful. I don't care if the game was Japanese, Canadian, or bloody American. It promotes something that should never be promoted.
I agree CNN just crossed the line, completely, implicitly blaming Japan as a nation for the content of the videogame, and could very well sparkle a diplomatic incident.
But Mr. Nagomi defense is not free of flaws. He is a genius as someone said indeed. And so he smartly gathers rape and other violent crimes numbers in the same bag saying japan numbers are far lower then US. But what we should remember as it as what concerns for the other violent crimes these numbers are somewhat reliable but not in what concerns to rape. In fact is estimated that even in the US just 16% of the rapes and sexual assault episodes are reported and therefore included in the official number.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_percap-crime-rapes-per-capita
look at these numbers, does anybody believe that some of the countries that rank less then 50th on rape rates really have those rates?! Or would it be because women in those countries dont have any sexual choice and therefore being forced to have sex is normal. Mind you the husband/partner/boyfriend can and actually are most commonly the rapist. Since we know so little about Japanese unofficial figures taken by humanitarian associations we cant really know if Mr Nagomi is telling the truth or not.
Side note: I am portuguese and dont believe on the oficial figures for Portugal neither. Apparently there were less rapes in the all country in 2002 then what a national humanitarian association reported as complaints in just one of the 20 districts. These numbers are related to 2002. Since then in Portugal the official figures had increased till 2006 around 15 to 20%, probably not because the crime increased but because the scandals related to some mediatic cases encouraged the victims to report. Last couple of years the official rates have reduced again.
EDIT: Reading back some more posters just to correct, problem is not in each country law system to fail or not to acuse a rapist, problem is with victim having the courage to even report it.
I dont want to take any part on CNN vs Nagomi as both seem to go far beyond the limits. Rather just leave this settle and carry on with our lives, nothing to see there anymore (well ultimately blame CNN for necroing this issue and not shut up and ponder before coming up with such strong acusations).
But Mr. Nagomi defense is not free of flaws. He is a genius as someone said indeed. And so he smartly gathers rape and other violent crimes numbers in the same bag saying japan numbers are far lower then US. But what we should remember as it as what concerns for the other violent crimes these numbers are somewhat reliable but not in what concerns to rape. In fact is estimated that even in the US just 16% of the rapes and sexual assault episodes are reported and therefore included in the official number.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_percap-crime-rapes-per-capita
look at these numbers, does anybody believe that some of the countries that rank less then 50th on rape rates really have those rates?! Or would it be because women in those countries dont have any sexual choice and therefore being forced to have sex is normal. Mind you the husband/partner/boyfriend can and actually are most commonly the rapist. Since we know so little about Japanese unofficial figures taken by humanitarian associations we cant really know if Mr Nagomi is telling the truth or not.
Side note: I am portuguese and dont believe on the oficial figures for Portugal neither. Apparently there were less rapes in the all country in 2002 then what a national humanitarian association reported as complaints in just one of the 20 districts. These numbers are related to 2002. Since then in Portugal the official figures had increased till 2006 around 15 to 20%, probably not because the crime increased but because the scandals related to some mediatic cases encouraged the victims to report. Last couple of years the official rates have reduced again.
EDIT: Reading back some more posters just to correct, problem is not in each country law system to fail or not to acuse a rapist, problem is with victim having the courage to even report it.
I dont want to take any part on CNN vs Nagomi as both seem to go far beyond the limits. Rather just leave this settle and carry on with our lives, nothing to see there anymore (well ultimately blame CNN for necroing this issue and not shut up and ponder before coming up with such strong acusations).
May I direct you to post 76 on this page: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.186139-CNN-RapeLay-Controversy-Sparks-Angry-Response?page=3Abriael said:
Also, you say anti-Japanese American media. Maybe I haven't noticed it or something, but I haven't seen any of this. Also, Japan isn't above all criticism. They're highly racist and sexist. So they're not as nice as a lot of Americans. Even jerks in this country are usually for equality of race and gender.
Wait, are you saying I don't agree that censorship isn't the best thing? Because I've said several times that I'm not a huge fan of censorship.incal11 said:
Okay, why is everyone assuming that I'm of the opinion of things I haven't said or in fact stated I disagreed with?The_root_of_all_evil said:
I never said it was to that degree. I just said there is definitly an effect. Never pretended to know exactly what the effect was.
And what we watch as children does have an effect not only on an individual but on the culture as well.
I'm just going to say it now.
We have to stop comparing cultures NOW!
You just can't do it....if everything we learn as children stays with us, then a child will learn the social norms of his/her culture and stick with it. However, just like everything else in psychology, there are exceptions to this rule and those exceptions are what drive a culture forward.
This cultural comparison has to stop, sure we can say its wrong and immoral but the the system works for them. LET THEM FIX IT.
And if I do recall correctly, Rapelay became one the first game in Japan's history to actually be banned. I remember reading a lot of articles about the hysteria that Hentai game developers were going through since a good portion of Japan's game industry comes from these games. I was just over for a two week trip through Japan Last summer with people to people. I'll tell you, if they were faking their niceness...I could care less, I want to live there...I'm tired of the States...I really am and its because of crap like this. Not only is CNN off the ball but they are a FEW YEARS off...
And just as a side note, lets not bring up the violence connection stuff. No study can fully account for the effect violence has a on people as they grow up. That's why psychology isn't well liked, because you can't control all the variables, there is that human element and element of interaction. So we cannot prove or disprove this idea....all I can say is blame the parents.....there is your answer.
>>>>>>>>>BLAME THE PARENTS!!!!!!<<<<<<<<<<
We have to stop comparing cultures NOW!
You just can't do it....if everything we learn as children stays with us, then a child will learn the social norms of his/her culture and stick with it. However, just like everything else in psychology, there are exceptions to this rule and those exceptions are what drive a culture forward.
This cultural comparison has to stop, sure we can say its wrong and immoral but the the system works for them. LET THEM FIX IT.
And if I do recall correctly, Rapelay became one the first game in Japan's history to actually be banned. I remember reading a lot of articles about the hysteria that Hentai game developers were going through since a good portion of Japan's game industry comes from these games. I was just over for a two week trip through Japan Last summer with people to people. I'll tell you, if they were faking their niceness...I could care less, I want to live there...I'm tired of the States...I really am and its because of crap like this. Not only is CNN off the ball but they are a FEW YEARS off...
And just as a side note, lets not bring up the violence connection stuff. No study can fully account for the effect violence has a on people as they grow up. That's why psychology isn't well liked, because you can't control all the variables, there is that human element and element of interaction. So we cannot prove or disprove this idea....all I can say is blame the parents.....there is your answer.
>>>>>>>>>BLAME THE PARENTS!!!!!!<<<<<<<<<<