Colleges and Overexpensive Supplies

[Vausch]

Anybody that has attended college knows that there is a big problem with all of them that seems to be swept under the rug: Books and supply costs. We pay upwards to 700 dollars for textbooks each year, then are lucky to get maybe 40 dollars in selling them back, unless we resell on our own. I have to ask, why is it in a time of e-books, tablets, and PDFs do we have to pay that much for information that is likely outdated already and likely free somewhere else?

I run into the same issue when I take math classes. We're forced to buy TI-84/89 calculators for those and perform all this on technology that hasn't improved since the 90s. They still have black and white LCD screens, they still have obnoxious input methods, and they're still stupidly expensive. I could get an app on my phone that performs all the same functions as a TI-89 and more for 3 dollars, so why do I have to blow money on this piece of crap? They tell us it's to avoid cheating, but I don't believe that. We take our tests in a room laced with security cameras and have moderators walking around the rooms at all times. It's a broken argument.

 

[Queen Michael]

I know your pain. The things I went through in order to avoid paying for my college textbooks...

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

You know, you don't REALLY need a textbook for most college classes. I rarely bought textbooks for classes, not unless the class was either really short (like summer school), or I knew that the professor mostly wrote tests by the book rather than by what was taught in lecture. The rest of the time I didn't buy the book, I just went to every lecture and took really good notes.

Yes, the costs of textbooks are stupidly expensive, especially the e-books, which are pure profit since they don't cost any money to produce and stock. Thankfully these costs are at least partially avoidable though.

Depending on what your major is in fact, you can completely forgo reading the textbook and rely completely on the internet to get the same information, provided that you know exactly what information you'll be tested on.

 

[sextus the crazy]

It sucks paying full price for shit. Luckily, Amazon has pretty much everything for a fraction of the full price.

 

[Vausch]

It sucks paying full price for shit. Luckily, Amazon has pretty much everything for a fraction of the full price.

I know, I got most of my books from them. Problem was one got lost in the shipping and I wound up without it for 3 weeks. Had to drop the class.

 

[Vausch]

You know, you don't REALLY need a textbook for most college classes. I rarely bought textbooks for classes, not unless the class was either really short (like summer school), or I knew that the professor mostly wrote tests by the book rather than by what was taught in lecture. The rest of the time I didn't buy the book, I just went to every lecture and took really good notes.

Yes, the costs of textbooks are stupidly expensive, especially the e-books, which are pure profit since they don't cost any money to produce and stock. Thankfully these costs are at least partially avoidable though.

Depending on what your major is in fact, you can completely forgo reading the textbook and rely completely on the internet to get the same information, provided that you know exactly what information you'll be tested on.

Mechanical and Electronic engineering. I'm well aware I don't need the books because many of them state things that are long since outdated. Problem is my school is not very reputable and many classes will simply kick you out if you don't have the books.

Heck, one teacher did nothing but drone on for 3 hours while reading directly from the textbook. I asked why it is we even need the books and he said it was for the homework assignments because he'd only accept the answers as they were written in the books, even if I got the same answer with different wording from another source.

University education is really showing me how outdated it is and that it really needs a revamp to remain relevant in a world of universally accessible free information.

 

[Ed130 The Vanguard]

It depends on the material.

For items like textbooks its simply price gouging, for course readers and material set by the lecturers (at the uni I work for at least) you are simply paying for the printing as your fees are paying for the copyright.

The biggest issue is that quite a bit of the information is held under copyright laws driving prices up as well as having a captive audience.

 

[Darks63]

I know the feel op my old backpack was falling apart to the point where i had to replace it or start losing stuff so i headed down to the school store for one. one backpack they wanted 180 bucks for "luckily" i got one for 60 but when i went to walmart i saw one for like 20 i felt like such a chump.

I also feel the pain about the calculator i had to get a 100 dollar voyage 200 for basically 2 classes after that it pretty much assumed the role of a normal calculator.

 

[Happiness Assassin]

What is bullshit now is some textbooks being mandatory for even getting access to your homework. I am sure some people have seen these textbooks that have lesson plans drawn out ahead of time and lock our work behind another fucking system we have to buy unless we pay the full price of the new book. I had 3 classes last year that had each had their own programs for homework, making it hell to pay extra for with my crippled bank account and confusing as fuck to keep track of everything. I had a music prof who was so fed up with the bullshit that she told us to buy used as she drew up her own lesson plan.

 

[Lilani]

Anybody that has attended college knows that there is a big problem with all of them that seems to be swept under the rug: Books and supply costs. We pay upwards to 700 dollars for textbooks each year, then are lucky to get maybe 40 dollars in selling them back, unless we resell on our own. I have to ask, why is it in a time of e-books, tablets, and PDFs do we have to pay that much for information that is likely outdated already and likely free somewhere else?

I run into the same issue when I take math classes. We're forced to buy TI-84/89 calculators for those and perform all this on technology that hasn't improved since the 90s. They still have black and white LCD screens, they still have obnoxious input methods, and they're still stupidly expensive. I could get an app on my phone that performs all the same functions as a TI-89 and more for 3 dollars, so why do I have to blow money on this piece of crap? They tell us it's to avoid cheating, but I don't believe that. We take our tests in a room laced with security cameras and have moderators walking around the rooms at all times. It's a broken argument.

There are a few tricks you learn along the way. For example:

- Don't buy your books until you're ABSOLUTELY sure you need it. You'll never get hounded for not having the book on the first day, and after you get the syllabus you should be able to tell pretty quick if you need it.

- Plan ahead and find the best pricing for books. A lot of places have alternative book stores that aren't directly affiliated with the university, and online and digital are always options. Digital isn't usually cheaper if you're buying the entire book, but if you know what chapters you need then it might be cheaper to buy those individual chapters.

- Talk to your friends and figure out if you can borrow books they don't need anymore, or share with someone you know in class.

As for the calculator, I think your teacher has a legitimate point. It takes a lot more ingenuity to cheat with a TI-84 than with a smartphone. Your teacher isn't being a stick in the mud, they're just not being naive enough to think letting students use their phones during tests isn't going to lead to exploitation. Again, I recommend ordering a used one online, or finding someone to borrow from.

 

[HannesPascal]

Try buying a TI-nspire instead of a TI-84 since they have much better UI, (you can go back to any calculation and use the result of it in another calculation). Try buying used textbooks from older students or somewhere else and then sell your books to younger students.

Spoiler: Smugness spoiler

And it's not a real math class if you're using calculators.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

Spoiler: Smugness spoiler

And it's not a real math class if you're using calculators.

Yeah, everyone knows REAL math classes don't even have numbers!

God I hate high level math.

 

[gezodiac]

I don't really have any qualms with the text book prices.

I spend about 500 a term, depending. Of course I have much lower tuition costs than other countries.

 

[Flatfrog]

Speaking as the author of a textbook (although not one used in any curriculum) I'd like to speak up in favour of the price. Even if it's a mandatory book for some course, that still amounts to a very low circulation. And my book took me over a year to write, with a lot of fact-checking and care required. (It's still not very good) So the high price pays for the author's time, and the publisher's risk.

 

[Pinkamena]

The answer to why they require such stupidly expensive things is because of the profit margins. They're making bank by charging ridiculous money for obsolete and inexpensive equipment. The system benefits them, not you.

College/uni should also be about learning to think for yourself. You've already passed the bullshit detector test, all you have to do now is find a way to get around it. Buy used books online from outside your country.

No one seems to have noticed when it happened, but university as it is now is not what a university was from the 12th to 19th century. Now it's all about putting butts in seats, and keeping them there as long as possible. Why should they remain exclusive and only accept a small number of students, when they could just let everybody in and take everyone's money? They'll take any high school dropout and teach them how to calculate the slope of a line to the tune of $150 per class, because that kid's dollar is equal to the dollar of a student learning differential equations. There's no shortage of students who didn't learn geometry the first time in high school, they can just teach them the same thing again in college.

And guess what? They get a degree for that. Now that everyone has a degree, the degree is worthless. Well, almost worthless: they only thing that makes a college degree different from a high school diploma is every job now requires a college degree. But having a degree doesn't guarantee the job, it barely qualifies you for an interview. If you really want this job, you should have been working here two years ago.

Read up on how professors are being employed nowadays [http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/08/education/gap-in-university-faculty-pay-continues-to-grow-report-finds.html?_r=0]: More classes are being taught by part-time adjuncts or graduate students, and when a professor gets close to obtaining tenure, the university hires someone from somewhere else for part time. Now the previously mentioned professor needs to find employment elsewhere... usually as a part-time or adjunct at another university.

We live in the age of for-profit education, and betterment of the person is dead. They uphold the image of "improving a person's character" by requiring them to take ballroom dancing for a semester. You took on thousands of dollars of debt so that they could continue to pay the college president's salary. They absolutely have to pay him several million dollars, or else they'll lose top talent to other schools. Talent in this case being the ability to raise money. Better raise tuition too, Stafford loans will pay for that, right?

The first thing you do after graduation is get a calendar and mark that day. Then, when you get your first solicitation asking for donations to your alma mater, mark it on the calendar. Count the days in between, and you'll know the very much you mean to your school.

I think the "for-profit" problem could be amended somewhat by making higher education free. In norway we have this kind of system.

 

[Ken Sapp]

Textbooks are a huge racket. Many textbooks, at least in my experience, aren't even offered in ebook format. And the ones that are aren't much lower in price versus buying a new or used physical copy. And last I checked educational publishers get special exemptions when it comes to using copyright material in textbooks. As long as everything is properly attributed I don't think they have to pay as much, if anything, as any other type of publisher would.

 

[Esotera]

Is this more of a problem in the US? I don't think I've ever needed to buy a textbook for a class and certainly haven't been given homework from one, I've just been encouraged to buy them where necessary and sometimes have had to because it's pretty much a core text. Even then you can buy an earlier edition off Amazon and it'll be about £5-10.

 

[SilkySkyKitten]

snippy-snip

I think the "for-profit" problem could be amended somewhat by making higher education free. In norway we have this kind of system.

As awesome as that would be, sadly here in the US anyone associated with running a university would respond like this:
... and then they would proceed to slap you in the face and throw you out the door.

 

[Rosiv]

Is this more of a problem in the US? I don't think I've ever needed to buy a textbook for a class and certainly haven't been given homework from one, I've just been encouraged to buy them where necessary and sometimes have had to because it's pretty much a core text. Even then you can buy an earlier edition off Amazon and it'll be about £5-10.

Dont mean to disrupt, but i heard that piracy for education was legal in europe from one of your posts way back when(long time lurker), and i was wondering if there was any truth to that, cause it would certainly solve any cost issue for books, not that i advocate piracy, CAUSE DATS BAD .