Comments on Buzzfeed's real women in comic book poses

[Robert B. Marks]

Hi all!

Not enough content here for a Garwulf's Corner, but I can't resist playing with this a bit. So, first, here's the article: http://www.buzzfeed.com/kristinchirico/superheroes?bftw&utm_term=.knPwnw5kX#.hkmBLB1Z0

Comments on the poses and pictures, by each pose and picture in order:

1. I think this is one case where they got this one wrong. Sure, the pose itself is ridiculous, but the main thing that came to mind was that whoever was taking the photo wasn't high enough relative to the model to match the type of overhead perspective of the original picture.

2. They really missed the point on this one. It seems pretty obvious that in the original picture Wonder Woman is in the process of falling on her hindquarters as she's being attacked, so it's not so much as a pose as an action shot of falling down. Kudos for nothing that Wonder Woman doesn't appear to have any digestive tract or internal organs in the picture, but why doesn't Buzzfeed mention Wonder Woman's freakishly long right leg?

3. They nailed it. And, I would add of the original picture, SPINES DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!

4. Another good illustration of "SPINES DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!" However, I have to admit that I'm really uncomfortable when the photo model is a clearly different body type than in the illustration, and then they make a big deal about photoshopping the pictures to change the body type. If the model was somebody with the same body type as the character in the original picture, I could see the point, but this just undermines what they're trying to say.

5. Not a lot of complaints, although I wish they had mentioned how in the original picture Storm has either a freakishly long torso or no internal organs to make that perspective look like that.

6. Another case of "SPINES DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!" It's also another case of body type mismatch, but not enough attention is drawn to it to really complain.

Personally, I was disappointed - there's a lot of comic potential here, and a chance to make a few really good points in the process, but I think Buzzfeed really dropped the ball on this one. However, in the process of reading about the Buzzfeed article, I found out about this Tumblr, which does the "women drawn in impossible and ridiculous poses" REALLY well: http://eschergirls.tumblr.com/

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

So what? I would also look ridiculous next to the Paco Rabanne guy. You don't see me whining about it.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I'm reminded of this old article, about Rob Liefeld and his inability to draw reasonably proportioned human beings.

http://www.progressiveboink.com/2012/4/21/2960508/worst-rob-liefeld-drawings

Might be a more entertaining subject for discussion, as it talks about the same general issues, and as it's not only about poorly drawn or fucked up female characters a certain loud and local minority demographic won't brown their drawers about it.

 

[Dazzle Novak]

That's simply some bad artwork. You can practically hear the artists screaming, "Capricious Lord Almighty! Why must you make mortal men choose by putting titties in the front and asses in back? Zounds to you spine! My eyes wish to behold both at once?"

 

[1981]

Don't have the moment to make a big post but I would like to remind everybody that the Hawkeye Initiative [http://thehawkeyeinitiative.com/] is a thing that exists and is humourous.

I'm pretty sure they were the first (damn hipsters). Since they nailed the comedic aspect, I'm cool with Buzzfeed featuring real women.

Spoiler: Sage vs. Hawkeye

On a more serious note: Fully Dressed Redesigns of Superheroines [http://thehawkeyeinitiative.com/post/47472735790/ze-tarts-done-doing-these-so-here-they-all-are].

 

[aba1]

XD classic buzzfeed I wouldn't expect anything less. There are tons of examples of insanely bad art from comics due to time restraints and release schedules. Of course they have to play up the feminist narrative like somehow a fictional character who isn't 100% realistic is hurting women. Can you imagine fiction not being totally realistic (gasp). Besides if you are basing your self worth off fictional characters then you have much bigger issues in your life that someones drawing.

 

[Silvanus]

So what? I would also look ridiculous next to the Paco Rabanne guy.

The Paco Rabanne guy actually exists, so that's missing the point; that being to illustrate how impossible the poses are regardless of somebody's body type.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I'm reminded of this old article, about Rob Liefeld and his inability to draw reasonably proportioned human beings.

http://www.progressiveboink.com/2012/4/21/2960508/worst-rob-liefeld-drawings

Might be a more entertaining subject for discussion, as it talks about the same general issues, and as it's not only about poorly drawn or fucked up female characters a certain loud and local minority demographic won't brown their drawers about it.

I think I just vomited all over my shirt next to browning my drawers. Jesus Christ, those drawings are hidious, bordering on nightmare fuel.

OT: I can't be too bothered by all this. Cartoons/comic strips tend to thrive on "exuberance", whether its the kid-friendly large eyes and big heads, or sexualized male and female forms. That Wonder Woman and Psylocke pose looks like crap though. But they did pick particularly large girls to act out some of those poses, just to hammer home the contrast. That's a bit cheap.

 

[Silvanus]

XD classic buzzfeed I wouldn't expect anything less. There are tons of examples of insanely bad art from comics due to time restraints and release schedules.

D'you actually think that's why they chose the poses they did?

Of course they have to play up the feminist narrative like somehow a fictional character who isn't 100% realistic is hurting women. Can you imagine fiction not being totally realistic (gasp).

Well, of course fiction must be unrealistic, but it's more than noteworthy when it's far more frequently unrealistic in certain ways, and those ways happen to be both needless and sketchy.

 

[Casual Shinji]

On a more serious note: Fully Dressed Redesigns of Superheroines [http://thehawkeyeinitiative.com/post/47472735790/ze-tarts-done-doing-these-so-here-they-all-are].

Some of those look overly baggy though. I can't imagine Wonder Woman being able to fight too well when carrying around as many layers of clothing as an Assassin's Creed character. (Something that always kind of bothered me about those games in general.)

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

Really, all these pictures and the photo shopping proves is that comic book artists can't anatomy. I really think it odd when they use women for the proof of unrealistic standards and poses in the drawings, they do just as bad with the guys, no body complains. It's just... I can't even.

 

[Queen Michael]

But they did pick particularly large girls to act out some of those poses, just to hammer home the contrast. That's a bit cheap.

Agreed.

But why does so much of the fantasy revolve around half-naked women contorted to show off their boobs and butts? It feels like a way to take away their power.

No, it's not. Look, you are allowed to dislike the way women are portrayed in comics. But the reason male readers like seeing sexy women isn't to "take away their power." It's because the readers like hot women. Really. That's it.

Also: It irritates me that people keep complaining about unrealistic art and claiming it's sexist. I assure you, it's not.

If you have an issue with the way they sexualize women, then okay. Feel free to discuss that problem. But many comics are supposed to have exaggerated poses and bodies--that's part of the fun. And be honest--would you be fine with a comic book that constantly sexualizes realistically drawn women and treats them like sex objects?
Unrealistic proportions is one thing.
Constant sexualization is another.

 

[I can't enter my old name]

Don't have the moment to make a big post but I would like to remind everybody that the Hawkeye Initiative [http://thehawkeyeinitiative.com/] is a thing that exists and is humourous.

While the Hawkeye Initiative is a good laugh and is a good way to show how women are sexualized in comics, I think it doesn't really say much. A lot of it is just placing a male in a feminine pose.

Artists draw women in feminine and sexualized poses because it is well, art. They don't necessarily want realism, they want aesthetically pleasing art. A lot of art is anatomically incorrect because it accentuates gesture, femininity, and other form primitives that are attractive to the male and the female viewer to an extent. I did not see the Buzzfeed article because the link doesn't work, but my point is artists distort reality to make extremely beautiful drawings.

 

[DementedSheep]

As much as I hate the sexualized posse in comics (how make your character go from hero the whore in 2 seconds) I feel like these things make it out to be worse than it is (when trying to make a point rather than being silly). Any crouching pose with the spider-man family of heroes is just how they always do them and I think it's suppose to look a bit unnatural. Poses meant to show momentum are usually exaggerated, it's intentional. Rob Leifeld and Greg Land are a given for terrible art and the point has been hammered enough.

Although Esher girls actually has decent anatomy guides if anyone is looking for some.

 

[1981]

On a more serious note: Fully Dressed Redesigns of Superheroines [http://thehawkeyeinitiative.com/post/47472735790/ze-tarts-done-doing-these-so-here-they-all-are].

Some of those look overly baggy though. I can't imagine Wonder Woman being able to fight too well when carrying around as many layers of clothing as an Assassin's Creed character. (Something that always kind of bothered me about those games in general.)

Good point. Though the assassinos fight smart, so if anything, the excess layers would get in the way of the parkour.

 

[EternallyBored]

On a more serious note: Fully Dressed Redesigns of Superheroines [http://thehawkeyeinitiative.com/post/47472735790/ze-tarts-done-doing-these-so-here-they-all-are].

Some of those look overly baggy though. I can't imagine Wonder Woman being able to fight too well when carrying around as many layers of clothing as an Assassin's Creed character. (Something that always kind of bothered me about those games in general.)

Eh, the only one I really question are Zatanna's pants legs as they look too long, like they hang past her shoes. Wonder woman's clothes only look baggy next to the standard superhero spandex, there always seems to be this misconception that clothes like that are hard to move in, they really aren't, a buddy of mine, who's a hell of a lot more athletic than me, does stylized Renaissance costumes that look like that and assassin's creed style outfits, they are surprisingly easy to move in, like I've seen him do backflips and cartwheels, if you've got the strength for it, you can do cartwheels in full plate armor too.

From what he's told me, one of the biggest inhibitors to moving around are things like long capes, that have enough cloth that the momentum can wrap them around your legs or torso while jumping around. In that way, if we are talking about "realistic" superhero costumes, we should probably follow The Incedibles advice about no capes.

OT: this is going to turn into a shitstorm of a topic, but I want to know how a writer for this site is only just now discovering the Escher girls site, it always seems to come up in topics like this at some point, I don't know if that means mr. Marks needs to do some research that isn't buzzfeed, or if I just have spent way too much time in topics like this. For note, since they will likely be brought up, the Hawkeye Initiave, and Bikini armor battle damage tumblr also cover similar topics, regarding female armor and posing in fiction, some of their examples are iffy, and certainly there are valid debates about context for some of the things they pick on, but they're funny sites if you are looking for pictures of awkward human anatomy and questionable costume design.

 

[Robert B. Marks]

OT: this is going to turn into a shitstorm of a topic, but I want to know how a writer for this site is only just now discovering the Escher girls site, it always seems to come up in topics like this at some point, I don't know if that means mr. Marks needs to do some research that isn't buzzfeed, or if I just have spent way too much time in topics like this. For note, since they will likely be brought up, the Hawkeye Initiave, and Bikini armor battle damage tumblr also cover similar topics, regarding female armor and posing in fiction, some of their examples are iffy, and certainly there are valid debates about context for some of the things they pick on, but they're funny sites if you are looking for pictures of awkward human anatomy and questionable costume design.

Actually, I'm just not a big comic book fan, so this stuff doesn't cross my desk very often.

That said, I remember years ago howling with laughter at the stuff on Superdickery.com...

 

[Scarim Coral]

The point?

Poses made in comicbooks are suppose to be more dramatic since I read a little bit when my bro bought this how to draw characters by Marvel. No way it was said it was suppose to be realistic!