Communism vs. Capitalism, which is really better?

[Guitarmasterx7]

Capitalism even in theory i think, is better. Perfect working communism would result in one of those creepy sci fi Utopian societies where everyone is happy but live bland, meaningless lives. Personally I like seeing my hard work get rewarded and i would rather not live a boring monotonous existence where the daily grind is all i know.

Realistically communism doesn't even work anyways, and it never will unless everybody gets lobotomized at birth.

 

[Warlordnipple]

Capitalism vs Communism is not actually a very good debate because Capitalism is not a system of government it is an economic idea. Socialism vs Capitalism is more what you mean. they are not really mutually exclusive at all either. There are a lot of incredibly socialist ideas that improve our society just like capitalistic ones do. Public schools, social security, food stamps, are all very socialist but most people would say that at the very least public schools improve our society even though it is socialist.

 

[Blind Sight]

Argh, I really hate it when people talk about political or economic systems being 'better'. By who's definition? The only concrete answer you can give is your own. By what attributes, concepts, logic, social order, government structure, etc? It's all about what you favour, not about which one is objectively 'better'.

I get this all the time in my political science classes. There's usually two kinds of people: the idealists, who believe that their system is absolutely correct and everyone else is wrong (be it socialism, communism, capitalism, tribalism, etc.) and the skeptics, the bastards who have realized that ALL systems are broken from the start thanks to human shortcomings. It's all well and good to talk about 'in theory' but in the end reality corrupts every system.

I myself am a capitalist, because I prefer to work for my own goals and profit, not everyone else's, and I don't want other people to work for my goals or profit either (unless of course they're chosen to do so). I'm pretty much just an individualist, looking out for Number #1.

Yeah, and look how that turned out.

Yes, we should all take our assessments of political and economic philosophies from video games. This just in, Communists can build giant tesla towers of doom because I saw it in Red Alert!

 

[TK421]

A market economy is the best kind of economy. The standard of living is higher on average, as well as the happiness of the citizens of said market economy(s).

 

[Fuselage]

Communism is better but will never work like Capitalism.
Why?
Humans are Greedy, Backstabbing, Cheating Assholes.

 

[The_Ghost_Ninja]

Snip

Yeah, and look how that turned out.

I rather enjoyed that series, and it's on it's 3rd title, that's prosperity if I ever heard of it.
Also if the cycle is continued it expands. ("Bad" ending of Bioshock 1)
LOL I suppose making machines who will preserve our Media and art, then proceed to eradicate us would be for the best in the grand scheme of things.
Serious note: If we were in a Communist society would we be on this site asking this question? The answer is no, and by no I mean yes.

 

[Ghored]

An idea may be the most perfect thought ever, and could solve all your economic and political problems in a flash.


Now, actually applying that idea is impossible.


So we should probably stick Capitalism for now.

 

[Thaluikhain]

What type of communism? What type of capitalism? For whom? For what definition of better?

The devil, as always, is in the details. We've only seen certain specific forms of each, and that has included some rather large disasters for both.

 

[SwagLordYoloson]

Capitalism, because you have to work for something, in communism there is no sense of achievement, yes everyone else has what you got, but you didn't have to work any harder than them or suck up to your boss any more.

Sure there's a sense of achievement! Who's to say you couldn't move up or down in your career? Who's to say that you couldn't make more money than other people? Do you think that everyone in China makes the exact same amount of money? Don't make me laugh!

Just because businesses are run by the government doesn't mean that those businesses totally suck! There is a reason Chinese businesses are growing at the rate they are. I mean yes, China kinda sucks from a human rights and environmental standpoint, but economically, they are doing very well.

Your image of cookie cutter Communism is naieve, my good man.

I was merely comparing the ideologies that i have been taught in my senior schoolings. If i do recall, communism on paper is a society where everyone does their part, and everyone is treated equally because of that? Wouldn't that mean everyone is paid the same? and that they receive the same technology? If not im thinking i might pay my modern history teacher a visit :S

 

[FaithorFire]

Well "Capitalism" is better, depending on what you mean by that. True free market based societies (i.e.: MARKET entrepreneurships) are overwhelmingly the happiest, most successful, liberated places that have ever existed. That is the system truly based on survival-of-the-fittest. That is how the US was founded and how Americans lived until FDR.
However, what is practiced in the UK, China, and increasingly in the US is more like political entrepreneurship. What most anti-Capitalists are talking about when they attack "capitalism" is actually political entrepreneurship. That is when large companies gain market power (legitimately or illegitimately) and then use political and regulatory influence to hold onto that market power. Libertarians (like Glenn Beck of Penn Jillette) believe in the value of MARKET ENTREPRENEURSHIP and despise political entrepreneurship exhibited from companies like BP, Haliburton, etc... that anti-capitalists call "capitalism".

Also, there are ZERO immigrants or elderly people who have regular nightmares and psychological damage from their memories of massacres and murder committed by dedicated, card-carrying, capitalists. Communism only even works in theory when you totally ignore 10,000 years of evidence pointing to the inherent darkness of human nature. The impracticality and downright danger posed by communism is the most clear lesson the past 70 years have taught us and, frankly, I don't think much of anyone who is already ignoring that lesson.

 

[Wolfenbarg]

Communism can't work with humans as we are, and since we've essentially defeated natural selection making us drastically different than we are now, it will never work. If you wanted a more thorough discussion, you should have mentioned Capitalism vs. Socialism, since that's a hot debate topic. The communism debate kind of fell apart after millions of people were murdered and the wall came down.

Capitalism and Socialism both have a goal. They are both self motivated on the micro scale, but on the macro scale Capitalism has the goal of everyone fighting for their own just rewards creating an invisible regulator while Socialism seeks to equalize people through increased government intervention and regulation. I'm pretty sure everyone in the west prefers the higher ratio of capitalism we all enjoy (nobody wants the government running the markets, at least no one that knows what that leads to), but we also enjoy having government safety nets. I tend to be fiscally conservative, but even I know that government safety nets prevented this recession from being a full on depression. But uh... wait, what was the ultimate point of this paragraph?

Anyway, I prefer a higher ratio of capitalism like we have in America, it just has a lot of flaws due to certain areas being locked down by the government in the worst possible ways while others are currently too wide open to allow sustainability.

 

[Trolldor]

Snip

Yeah, and look how that turned out.

I rather enjoyed that series, and it's on it's 3rd title, that's prosperity if I ever heard of it.
Also if the cycle is continued it expands. ("Bad" ending of Bioshock 1)
LOL I suppose making machines who will preserve our Media and art, then proceed to eradicate us would be for the best in the grand scheme of things.
Serious note: If we were in a Communist society would we be on this site asking this question? The answer is no, and by no I mean yes.

By No you mean whatever the party tells you it means.

 

[Velvo]

Capitalism, because you have to work for something, in communism there is no sense of achievement, yes everyone else has what you got, but you didn't have to work any harder than them or suck up to your boss any more.

Sure there's a sense of achievement! Who's to say you couldn't move up or down in your career? Who's to say that you couldn't make more money than other people? Do you think that everyone in China makes the exact same amount of money? Don't make me laugh!

Just because businesses are run by the government doesn't mean that those businesses totally suck! There is a reason Chinese businesses are growing at the rate they are. I mean yes, China kinda sucks from a human rights and environmental standpoint, but economically, they are doing very well.

Your image of cookie cutter Communism is naieve, my good man.

I was merely comparing the ideologies that i have been taught in my senior schoolings. If i do recall, communism on paper is a society where everyone does their part, and everyone is treated equally because of that? Wouldn't that mean everyone is paid the same? and that they receive the same technology? If not im thinking i might pay my modern history teacher a visit :S

You're not really wrong, fella. It's just that communism in major nations (namely China) has changed to suit the times. Just the same as capitalism in major nations changed to meet the times a hundred years ago. Now there are corporations, it's just that they are predominately owned by the state. Since the state is owned by the people, the people own the corporations. Still communism, just flavored with capitalism. Much like capitalism today is flavored with plenty of socialist policies. The best of both worlds is the key to economic prosperity for major powers these days.

 

[Ironic_Rak]

Pure Communism ( Socialist/Marxist ) assumes humanity is at its heart "good", each wiling to do their part for the greater good and thus fails

Pure Capitalism assumes humanity is at its hear "evil", drivne only by their own personal greed and thus equally fails

I'd rather walk the line the western world currently is ( though many seem to think our economy is pure capitalism which in Australia anyway is simply not true ) as we can hopefully avoid the problems a completely free market would cause ( such as the GFC ) and have enough control over the economy to encourage green industries and enforce employee friendly businesses policies while avoiding the stagnation and ruin purely Communist economic policies bring ( such as early Soviet Russia ).

I'm generalizing obviously but frankly the world isn't black and white and neither is the economy

 

[genamp]

This is a little skewed. Communism isn't an economic policy, and Capitalism isn't an ideology. One's a "religion"/philosophy that promotes equality and a united free state. Capitalism revolves itself around Zaibatsu-esque conglomerations and corporations and the ability to creates funds/capita from the lowest amount of resources and then redistribute; wealth moves through incentive. Rinse and repeat. In all honesty, we can only prove that capitalism works better, due to the fact that there has never been a true Communist state. Russia, or the Soviet Union, was a totality centered around a dictator. China is Communism's antithesis; if anything, China is a quasi-Fascist regime that replaces a centralized religion or state church with Capitalist ideals and markets. And both of those only worked to support the upper echelons of society (read: bourgeoisie)

Capitalism really does give more an incentive. It allows for one to prosper above all the others and thus completely outshine in both monetary and material possessions. As such, Capitalism can fully "persuade" people to work. However, there will still be those in the bottom that cannot reach higher, and there will be those who have wealth and secure it for themselves. But it is in this that Capitalism is allowed to create such a dichotomy between classes. Due to the ability for free market and monopolized trade, one can segregate themselves.

It is really quite sad that Humans are the real reason that Communism could never fully bloom into its intended self. And as a side note, Socialism (what a few are describing) is different that Communism, by fathoms. It's more akin to an economic plan, rather than an uprising ideal of the underdog, as it is so fashionably thought of.

Ha, I bet I sound like quite the lil' Engels.

 

[SwagLordYoloson]

Capitalism, because you have to work for something, in communism there is no sense of achievement, yes everyone else has what you got, but you didn't have to work any harder than them or suck up to your boss any more.

Sure there's a sense of achievement! Who's to say you couldn't move up or down in your career? Who's to say that you couldn't make more money than other people? Do you think that everyone in China makes the exact same amount of money? Don't make me laugh!

Just because businesses are run by the government doesn't mean that those businesses totally suck! There is a reason Chinese businesses are growing at the rate they are. I mean yes, China kinda sucks from a human rights and environmental standpoint, but economically, they are doing very well.

Your image of cookie cutter Communism is naieve, my good man.

I was merely comparing the ideologies that i have been taught in my senior schoolings. If i do recall, communism on paper is a society where everyone does their part, and everyone is treated equally because of that? Wouldn't that mean everyone is paid the same? and that they receive the same technology? If not im thinking i might pay my modern history teacher a visit :S

You're not really wrong, fella. It's just that communism in major nations (namely China) has changed to suit the times. Just the same as capitalism in major nations changed to meet the times a hundred years ago. Now there are corporations, it's just that they are predominately owned by the state. Since the state is owned by the people, the people own the corporations. Still communism, just flavored with capitalism. Much like capitalism today is flavored with plenty of socialist policies. The best of both worlds is the key to economic prosperity for major powers these days.

I couldn't agree more when talking in practical terms, I think a utopian world should have a mix of the two. Glad to see this didn't erupt into a flame of misunderstanding like so many of my other posts

 

[Velvo]

Capitalism, because you have to work for something, in communism there is no sense of achievement, yes everyone else has what you got, but you didn't have to work any harder than them or suck up to your boss any more.

Sure there's a sense of achievement! Who's to say you couldn't move up or down in your career? Who's to say that you couldn't make more money than other people? Do you think that everyone in China makes the exact same amount of money? Don't make me laugh!

Just because businesses are run by the government doesn't mean that those businesses totally suck! There is a reason Chinese businesses are growing at the rate they are. I mean yes, China kinda sucks from a human rights and environmental standpoint, but economically, they are doing very well.

Your image of cookie cutter Communism is naieve, my good man.

Since you seem to be "in the know" about Chinese communism, how exactly does it work there? Because I thought

Who's to say you couldn't move up or down in your career? Who's to say that you couldn't make more money than other people?

was exactly what communism meant.

Look, pure communism and pure capitalism don't exist. To think they do or ever could is somewhat misguided. Whatever economic policy you start with, you're going to have to tweak. Yes, China has been tweaked towards capitalist policy to a great degree. Nations with capitalist philosophies have tweaked their own economies with socialist policy to a great degree.

In that manner, capitalist and communist (it's really better to say socialist) economies can be similar in all but name and a few key points left over from their points of origin. Modern communism is different than theoretical communism, just like modern capitalism is different from theoretical capitalism.

China is still communist, because the state owns corporations and the people in turn own the state. Western capitalist states are still capitalist because they don't own corporations, they just regulate them as though they do.

 

[lettucethesallad]

Capitalism in itself isn't based around god - american capitalism is. Now capitalism in its true form, i.e. everything's a trade, there is no free lunch, you can't get something for nothing; that's the way I'd like to build our world. I work my everyday life around everything being a trade; where I give, I get something of equal value back, or it's a waste of my time, or the other person's. I'm not talking money here either necessarily, but say you have a friend you hang out with. This person shows you appreciation, and is generally fun company. This is a way of payment for me being a cool person back. We have a trade-off. Now if this friend started dicking about being an asshole, I'd invest more than I were getting back if I were to keep hanging out with him/her. Thus, unfair trade and no deal.

Communism takes the people with capacity and potential and makes them work for the people who don't. With everything being government, things are heavily taxed. Say you're a surgeon - you've gone to school for god knows how many years, you're intelligent and you work hard. In my book you deserve the money you make for yourself - you've earned it. But with communism, this money isn't yours in full, it's everyone's. The result of your hard work, the hours you've toiled away, is given to people you've never even heard of, who for all you know may just be kicking back and enjoying the ride.

I don't believe communism is as nice a system as everyone keeps saying it is 'in theory'. And yes, before you feel the urge to tell me - I know I'm a greedy, coldhearted bastard, I've been told before. And no, I'm not ashamed.

 

[BrownGaijin]

I mean, if you look at it, Communism is, theoretically, better. It's built around true equality for all humans.

Short answer:
Two Words
[HEADING=1]SNOWBALL![/HEADING]

Long Answer:
If there's one thing I've learned it's that when the distribution of wealth is on either side of the extreme, you're going to end up with civil unrest and a lack of justice. Personally I really prefer the mixed economic system called "You can make as much money as you'd like but you can't screw with other people's right to do the same". True it's prone to apathy, but it can do wonders when it's put to good practice and well protected.

Edit: Am I seriously the only one who's quoted Orwell?