Communism vs. Capitalism, which is really better?

[hexFrank202]

I go strongly for capitalism, and for so many reasons.

1: What's the worst thing about capitalism? Monopolies. If one person has absolute control of something, they WILL become corrupt. Maybe immediately, maybe in a hundred years, but it will happen.

1.1: You agree with me on this, right?

1.2: Well guess what? Derp! I've gotcha now! When you get right down to it, the whole idea of communism is basically one, big monopoly. The whole idea is to not let some big company take over the world, just have it taken over right from the get-go! Great idea, huh?

1.3: So the whole point is to carefully moderate capitalism, and cutting down monopolies.

Next point...

2: And most important: YES, it absolutely is survival of the fittest, smartest and luckiest. But as everyone else has said, the more people have a motivation to work, the more work that will get done. Competition breeds creativity. Creativity makes for a better world.

2.1: About healthcare specifically: is it absolutely horrible to be denied medical care that could save your life? Of course, but does that mean we should sacrifice the competition and capitalism in healthcare to be more fair to everybody? Well, not really. Think about this...

2.2: What if we implemented social healthcare 200 years ago or so? We'd sacrifice innovation, sure, but at least we'll be giving care to everybody. The only problem is that we'd be, you know, still using 19th century medical science to treat everybody! America's first president died from a goddamn cold because the doctors thought they needed to suck out all his blood to make him better. The medical abilities we have today would blow the minds of people from back then.

2.3: So what I'm getting at is that if we stay firm with unfair medical treatment, who knows? In another 200 years, we could have aids pills. Take a pill, and your aids is gone. Whoop-de-doo!

2.4: Oh and by the way, I don't know if it varies from country to country, but in America, if you are, like, having a heart-attack, a hospital WILL treat you with everything they have. They won't ask for any money until later. It might ruin your financial stability for the rest of your life, but you'll still HAVE a life. So the whole "capitalistic healthcare is unfair" is mostly bullcrap anyway. So there.

Continuing...

3: Not only does socialism and capitalism bring out the worst in the government, it brings out the worst in people, too. It doesn't matter what the government does; people will ALWAYS be greedy. Let me explain...

3.1: Just in the little amount of socialism that America has right now, several members of my extended family are leeching off of it. One of my older family members had major surgery several years ago and still walks with a cane. He has lots of education in high-paying industries; he could easily make plenty of money without ever doing physical labor. But in order to get his disability money, he can't have a full-time job. So he actually just doesn't work. Just so he can take money from the government.

3.2: On my dad's side of the family, claiming disability is practically part of their retirement plan. They all live in old, crappy houses. They're slobs, in horrible health, they're pretty depressing people. They're nice (to me at least), but they don't look happy.

3.3: What I'm getting at HERE is that, for the most part, socialism and communism pays you based on what you need. If you are less-fortunate, they give you more money or aid. Under those rules; it's just human nature to make yourself sick and miserable. You convince yourself that you're sick. Which is a self-curse: you actually become sick in some way when you live like that. I know people who live like this first hand. So if there's ANYTHING that I'm absolutely SURE of about communism and socialism, it's this.

Final: There are other reasons in my head, but I think three is enough for now.

 

[Mikeyfell]

Since I never grew up in the Cold War, I've never really got why our (USA) country is so paranoid about Communism. I mean, if you look at it, Communism is, theoretically, better. It's built around true equality for all humans. Every man, woman, and child is given what they need and some of what they want and any contrubution they make is for the "greater good". There's no need for money, since all needs are met. Granted, the whole idea of Communism falls down when put into practice, but the entirety of the blame seems to fall on the shoulders of the leaders, not the government itself.

Capitalism, on the other hand, is better in practice, but flawed theoretically. It is based essentially around greed. Money is the central pillar, the Bible, and God all wrapped into one package. If people need or want something, they get money (somehow) and buy it. In order to get money, they get jobs. To get the better jobs, They need education. To get that education, they need money. So, to get that money, they need to compete with other people for the lower level jobs. From what I can tell, Capitalism is essentially "survival of the smartest, fittest, most appealing, and most well connected."

So, which do you think is better, and why? Please put down your reason for saying so, and feel free to tear apart this OP for your counter arguements if you wish. I'm mainly just curious as to what other people think.

Communism is better but it doesn't work because of human nature

Communism = Equality
Capitalism = Slavery (to money)

in Communism if you do your job you get what you need, but if you do your job well you still get the same as the guy who half asses it, so what's to stop you from half ass'n it?
that's when the government steps in and says "if you don't do a good job you go to prison"
then it just spirals into distopia

in Capitalism the harder you work the more money you get. seems fair right? but then Greed takes over and the rich get richer and the poor stay poor.
it starts a distopia but nobody does anything about it because only the rich people have the power to fix it and their all rich and greedy.
and since the rich people control the government they dump all the taxes on the middle class so the poor don't just stay poor but they get poorer, but now I'm just taking about America

Communist needs democracy to work
and Capitalism needs autocracy to work

but human nature won't let either of those things happen

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

Neither, hybrids are where it's at. A pure capitalist society will eventually burn out, while a communist society is hard to get going. Why not take the best of both worlds?

2.2: What if we implemented social healthcare 200 years ago or so? We'd sacrifice innovation, sure, but at least we'll be giving care to everybody. The only problem is that we'd be, you know, still using 19th century medical science to treat everybody! America's first president died from a goddamn cold because the doctors thought they needed to suck out all his blood to make him better. The medical abilities we have today would blow the minds of people from back then.

Ok, that's just insanity. I think you'll find that most countries besides America have national healthcare schemes and seem to do just fine. I can see what you mean by the 200 years ago thing, but in this day and age where healthcare is pretty damn good, giving reasonable healthcare to all your citizens is not going to cause many problems.

 

[Boommin]

Since I never grew up in the Cold War, I've never really got why our (USA) country is so paranoid about Communism. I mean, if you look at it, Communism is, theoretically, better. It's built around true equality for all humans. Every man, woman, and child is given what they need and some of what they want and any contrubution they make is for the "greater good". There's no need for money, since all needs are met. Granted, the whole idea of Communism falls down when put into practice, but the entirety of the blame seems to fall on the shoulders of the leaders, not the government itself.

Capitalism, on the other hand, is better in practice, but flawed theoretically. It is based essentially around greed. Money is the central pillar, the Bible, and God all wrapped into one package. If people need or want something, they get money (somehow) and buy it. In order to get money, they get jobs. To get the better jobs, They need education. To get that education, they need money. So, to get that money, they need to compete with other people for the lower level jobs. From what I can tell, Capitalism is essentially "survival of the smartest, fittest, most appealing, and most well connected."

So, which do you think is better, and why? Please put down your reason for saying so, and feel free to tear apart this OP for your counter arguements if you wish. I'm mainly just curious as to what other people think.

Capitalism is perfect. I don't understand why you claim the Bible and God are wrapped up into it. Sounds like Conservative propaganda. The Bible encourages altruism which is much more similar to communism.

I also don't understand why you think capitalism worships greed while communism doesn't. Milton Friedman can help you out with that. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWsx1X8PV_A

Its strange that people think communism sounds good "on paper". It doesn't! People are not equal. I cannot play basket ball the same as an NBA player can. Sorry some people are born better then others. This whole new age belief that everyone is the same is really scary. Individualism is the heart of everything without it we would be an army of mindless robots.

Btw the US was scared for good reason. What great war or genocide wasn't caused because a collective banded together? None. Although I don't understand why we think we are the world police.

PS. I am scatterbrained forgive me

 

[Kurokami]

Since I never grew up in the Cold War, I've never really got why our (USA) country is so paranoid about Communism. I mean, if you look at it, Communism is, theoretically, better. It's built around true equality for all humans. Every man, woman, and child is given what they need and some of what they want and any contrubution they make is for the "greater good". There's no need for money, since all needs are met. Granted, the whole idea of Communism falls down when put into practice, but the entirety of the blame seems to fall on the shoulders of the leaders, not the government itself.

Capitalism, on the other hand, is better in practice, but flawed theoretically. It is based essentially around greed. Money is the central pillar, the Bible, and God all wrapped into one package. If people need or want something, they get money (somehow) and buy it. In order to get money, they get jobs. To get the better jobs, They need education. To get that education, they need money. So, to get that money, they need to compete with other people for the lower level jobs. From what I can tell, Capitalism is essentially "survival of the smartest, fittest, most appealing, and most well connected."

So, which do you think is better, and why? Please put down your reason for saying so, and feel free to tear apart this OP for your counter arguements if you wish. I'm mainly just curious as to what other people think.

Communism restricts your freedom to allow better living standards for the whole, love being a teacher? Too bad, you're a janitor, cause we need one. But on the bright side, you get paid as much as the next guy. It's flawed because people are flawed and aren't all the same. Capitalism on the other hand basically says that money is good and you should do what you can to get it, it's great. Personally I think that those who preach about equality as some sort of god-given truth don't realize what they're actually talking about. (An equal starting line would be nice, but that's not what they argue)

Anyway I've just been ranting off, point is that communism doesn't account for the individual in many cases and with lives nowadays being so work-oriented, it's fair to want the freedom to chose what you strive for, even if it is being a deadbeat artist that pulls your fancy.

 

[Austin Howe]

As someone who has taken a college level economics course (in High School), it's Capitalism. Mostly from the standpoint that planned economies run far too much in the long run to react to anything in the necessary time.

However, you woefully uninformed on this topic if you are only using "Capitalism" and "Communism".

For example, What you are calling "Communism" is really not Communism. Each country that has attempted Communism has either A) gotten "stuck" (by choice of dicatators) in between the Capitalist and Communist eras, in that little place called the "Dictatorship of the Proletariat", (USSR) whereas in real communism, the state is eventually supposed to break down into something more along the lines of anarcho-mutualism or libertarian socialism. or B) eventually slid back into Capitalism whilst retaining the dickheads on top (China).

There are other models to consider, like Keynesian models, or the further left-leaning mixed market economies, which often incorporate Keynesian ideas, Monetarist ideas, and a sprinkling of social justice programs, as well as automatic stabilizer such as unemployment insurance.

Or, you can consider even anarcho-capitalist models, wherein the functions of the state (In the libertarian sense: policing, diplomacy, and military) are carried out by private coorporations, and wherein money is also privately printed and such.

I'm a mixed-market man, in that while I believe the basic form of Capitalism is superior to that of a state-planned economy, or anarchic mutualistic models, I believe that the sheer wealth, innovation, and technological achievement generated by these systems must be reallocated or used for assistance of those most in need to a degree, as often capitalism operates on a sort of lottery where one's future is most often determined by their birthright, not necessarilly their effort.

In a sense, I'm a Capitalist inspired by the fury and sense of justice of Socialism. I often describe myself as a "Roosevelt Democrat" or "Truman Democrat" as opposed to a "New (Clinton) Democrat", since I believe those two shared what is probably the furthest left vision of capitalism in America so far (including their unfulfilled visions, such as Roosevelt's "Economic Bill of Rights" and pursual of Universal Health Care), and the one that sits just about right in my mind, before the state uses it's power to redistribute wealth to unjustifiable degrees.

Economics is not black and white, in fact, it's best quality is as an evolving science, one where new models are constantly formulated based on new information, each new model usually better than the last (Feudal>Pure Capitalist>Keynesian>Mixed-Market), and each new model sits in a serious shade of grey between the rightist and leftist extremes you described. (Though usually a bit to the left of centre.

 

[Austin Howe]

ITT: 33 Identical posts.
Since this is A video game forum:

"Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow?"

"No!" Says the man in Washington, "It Belongs to the poor."
"No!" Says the man in The Vatican, "It belongs to God."
"No!" Says the man in Moscow, "It belongs to everyone!"

"I rejected those answers.

Instead, I chose something different. I chose the impossible. I chose...Rapture!

A city where the artist would not fear the censor, where the scientist would not be limited by petty morality, where the great would not be constrained by the small!

And with the sweat of your brow, Rapture can become your city as well..." - Andrew Ryan

Ayn Rand is disgusting.

 

[Boommin]

In a sense, I'm a Capitalist inspired by the fury and sense of justice of Socialism. I often describe myself as a "Roosevelt Democrat"

You consider yourself a Roosevelt democrat? Why on earth would you want to label yourself a new dealist. They extended the great depression with their horrible ideas.

 

[Cryo84R]

Consider that communist regimes(To name two; Stalin and Mao) are responsible for the massacre of over 100 million people in the 20th century and I believe you will have your answer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_genocide

 

[spartan231490]

Since I never grew up in the Cold War, I've never really got why our (USA) country is so paranoid about Communism. I mean, if you look at it, Communism is, theoretically, better. It's built around true equality for all humans. Every man, woman, and child is given what they need and some of what they want and any contrubution they make is for the "greater good". There's no need for money, since all needs are met. Granted, the whole idea of Communism falls down when put into practice, but the entirety of the blame seems to fall on the shoulders of the leaders, not the government itself.

Capitalism, on the other hand, is better in practice, but flawed theoretically. It is based essentially around greed. Money is the central pillar, the Bible, and God all wrapped into one package. If people need or want something, they get money (somehow) and buy it. In order to get money, they get jobs. To get the better jobs, They need education. To get that education, they need money. So, to get that money, they need to compete with other people for the lower level jobs. From what I can tell, Capitalism is essentially "survival of the smartest, fittest, most appealing, and most well connected."

So, which do you think is better, and why? Please put down your reason for saying so, and feel free to tear apart this OP for your counter arguements if you wish. I'm mainly just curious as to what other people think.

I disagree. In communism, the only value is existence. because you draw breath, you deserve the same as every other human who draws breath. You don't have to do anything, not even participate in life. Capitalism, however, embraces achievement by rewarding success(in theory) and therefore celebrates the struggle of life, not simply the monotony of existence.
I was going to quote some choice lines from "Faith of The Fallen" which is a book which examines communism, and the true ideals behind it(among other ideologies) in great detail. But I don't feel like searching for the quote I was looking for. Just read the "Sword of Truth" series by Terry Goodkind. It's amazing and has a great many very important ideas that I guarantee will challenge the way you look at the world, which is always a good thing. However, I will quote one thing, the most important line in the entire book: "Your life is yours alone, rise up and live it." Ultimately, communism is the decision to relegate responsibility and importance to the community, not the individuals who comprise it. I can never agree with that, a society can have no meaning beyond the individuals it is built upon. Every person should be responsible for their own life. they should not be handed success, without even having the possibility of facing the consequences of their decisions. Only when a person is allowed to suffer the consequences of his mistakes, can he fully enjoy the benefits of his successes. That's my opinion anyway.

 

[GrizzlerBorno]

Capitalism is better for one simple reason: It has a goal.
In Communism everyone goes around being equal, and as a result they don't work towards anything.
In Capitalism the goal is to own the universe.

EDIT: ok, that was dicky of me, in retrospect.
My opinion (which still stands):
In Capitalism the goal is for the ONE richest individual to own the universe and enslave everyone beneath him.

There.

 

[Boommin]

Capitalism is better for one simple reason: It has a goal.
In Communism everyone goes around being equal, and as a result they don't work towards anything.
In Capitalism the goal is for the ONE richest individual to own the universe and enslave everyone beneath him.

There, corrected

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWsx1X8PV_A

 

[Danpascooch]

Communism. It may be unsustainable, but with a very much-improved education system, I could see a version working.
Capitalism, on the other hand has proven unsustainable in a global economy (as proven by the recent recession). Greed driving profits isn't exactly a good idea when one must be conscious of seven billion other people. At a minimum, some form of socialism (also stigmatized, I'd like to point out that the only difference separating the moderately effective Capitalist US state from a terrible socialist one is free healthcare, which is a good idea to begin with) one needs to be adopted if the government controls more while the people control more of the government (and that education boost happens, too), we might be able to progress a little better.

Communism is much better theoretically. The problem is that this is the real world, and communism has never come even close to working.

 

[Danpascooch]

Capitalism is better for one simple reason: It has a goal.
In Communism everyone goes around being equal, and as a result they don't work towards anything.
In Capitalism the goal is for the ONE richest individual to own the universe and enslave everyone beneath him.

There, corrected

I hope that was a joke, because editing someones post to say something stupid is a really asshole and immature thing to do.

He's right too.

 

[Mikeyfell]

I go strongly for capitalism, and for so many reasons.

1: What's the worst thing about capitalism? Monopolies. If one person has absolute control of something, they WILL become corrupt. Maybe immediately, maybe in a hundred years, but it will happen.

1.1: You agree with me on this, right?

1.2: Well guess what? Derp! I've gotcha now! When you get right down to it, the whole idea of communism is basically one, big monopoly. The whole idea is to not let some big company take over the world, just have it taken over right from the get-go! Great idea, huh?

1.3: So the whole point is to carefully moderate capitalism, and cutting down monopolies.

[HEADING=1]wrong[/HEADING]
the worst thing about Capitalism is inequality
the fact that the top 1% can have more than the bottom 50% combined

so you have homeless people fighting tooth and nail over a dollar to go buy a McDonalds cheese burger so they don't starve. While there's some rich guy who just bought a cow so his personal butcher can slaughter it so his personal chef can cook him up some filet mignon, just to decide at the last minute he wants chicken.

the top 1% could give every homeless person in the country 1 million dollars and not even feel the difference in their wallets. but they don't because of human nature.

if some giant global Communist monopoly came and redistributed all the money so everyone had the exact same amount that would only be a good thing

but I agree with all the points you made
both systems are shit but I prefer Communism
because if you aren't in the top 1% the point I just made outweighs all 3 points you made

 

[Blatherscythe]

Communism is for a people much more capable and less greedy than humanity at it's current mindset. It falls flat on it's face because of the three things it tried to remove. Greed, corruption and stupidity. The governments that rise in Communist societies have had an abundance of stupid choices and corrupt officials, all stemming from human greed. That's why at some point in the communist society there would be no need for government it would be a "dictatorship of the workers" as Marx would say.

Capitalism exploits human greed, it creates a drive for people to work and achieve more. Again it works in theory. In reality, capitalism is what drove Marx and Engels (I hope I spelt it right) to make the communist manifisto in the first place. The era that they lived in explains it. During this time workers unions didn't exist, owners decided your pay (low with deductions) and no benifits were included. Jobs were usually hard and risky with all of the industrial machinery. Marx and Engels saw factory owners as exploititive assholes who did fuck all but got the most money. They saw this as unfair to the working man/woman/child and tried to create a social economic structure that put the power and control into those they deemed most deserving of it. The people. Marx himself even predicted the economic crisis we face now, as well as the growing gap between rich and poor.

Both theories are good on paper, but the results are usually less than steller. The reason America and Soviet Russia hated each other so much is because their idealogies were polar opposites.