Competitive multiplayer, skill and conduct

[Vegosiux]

In any kind of competition, it's natural that skill should be a major factor to the end result, the placement of an individual/team, of course.

What about conduct? Should that be counted in? What makes "a good player", skill alone, or the way they carry themselves, their attitude and their behavior? I for one, believe those qualities should be just as important. For example, now I know this might be a bit of a flame bait, but that's why Christiano Ronaldo will never be better than Lionel Messi - while I do not question CR's skills, his primadonna attitude really does reduce his value as a player in my eyes.

We have "unsportsmanlike conduct" penalties in sports, and I think they should have a place in competitive gaming as well. Being good at something should not give you free lease to demean, abuse and insult those that aren't as good.

Cheaters get banned all the time, for example, which is a good thing, but how about people who just poison the air around them when they step on the scene? Shouldn't, for example, in competitive ladders, abusive behavior result in loss of rating? Shouldn't people who are not capable and/or willing to be good sports be kicked out of a competition?

 

[Able Seacat]

I think maybe it's difficult in gaming to draw a line between unsportsmanlike conduct and trash talking. For instance in Halo, I despise tea-bagging but a lot of people find it to be part of the culture and just a laugh.

There is a reputation system on xbox live for behaviour and what not but it's useless.

 

[Kud]

I disagree. Unsporting conduct is super fun in video games, and I see nothing wrong with it.

Cheating is bad, but everyone enjoys a bit of unsporting conduct once in a while.

 

[TrevHead]

As the previous poster mentioned unsportsmanlike is the correct term, so many ppl online act like dicks or shit talk to one another, It's the main thing that puts me off online gaming.

Some games are worse than others, and some games like Eve and MMOs have really mature communities.

About actual conduct like a cheeky cheat or teabagging, I would say it depends on the game and who you are playing with.

 

[tippy2k2]

I'm kind of torn on this one...

Trash talking happens all the time on the field (real sports, not e-sports) and they don't get penalized for it. I don't believe I've EVER seen a player get penalized for talking; usually it's the aftermath when someone headbutts someone else for talking that gets the penalty.

Generally, unsportsmanlike conduct is only for actual taunting (scoring a touchdown and handing the ball to the defense-men; making taunting gestures at other players, etc). You could argue that's tea-bagging in video games but unlike football, you are leaving yourself at a tactical disadvantage when you taunt. I've killed many a bad guys because they stopped for that one second to tea-bag a dead friendly.

Now, I do think they need to keep an eye out on the personal attacks. The whole "Sexism in fighting game tournaments" [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/5436-Not-Okay] got to such a ridiculous level that it NEEDS to be purged. Like most issues, someone needs to draw the line and determining where that line goes is going to be a big issue. We see that on The Escapist all the time (I can't call User X the stupidest person in the world but I can say that people who have X opinion are the stupidest people in the world. It's clear that I'm talking about User X but I did not break any rules in my statement).

 

[Mirroga]

I disagree. Unsporting conduct is super fun in video games, and I see nothing wrong with it.

Cheating is bad, but everyone enjoys a bit of unsporting conduct once in a while.

A combination of unsporting conduct, trolls, screamers/flamers, and outright "Don't Have Fun" gamers combined under one multiplayer game is what makes me simply don't bother playing it and that's not even including the lag issues.

And most of them never know how to treat a new player right simply because the multiplayer in question has no problems or hates getting new players.

 

[TrevHead]

I disagree. Unsporting conduct is super fun in video games, and I see nothing wrong with it.

Cheating is bad, but everyone enjoys a bit of unsporting conduct once in a while.

A combination of unsporting conduct, trolls, screamers/flamers, and outright "Don't Have Fun" gamers combined under one multiplayer game is what makes me simply don't bother playing it and that's not even including the lag issues.

And most of them never know how to treat a new player right simply because the multiplayer in question has no problems or hates getting new players.

I agree, especially in the way ppl act to one another, I find the "don't have fun" ppl or even worse "don't make mistakes!" ppl to be VERY tiresome when first starting out in a game.

 

[General Twinkletoes]

I was playing starcraft, and had a pretty good game. I was winning for most of it, then my primarily ground to ground army stormed his base and started killing his shit. He was absolutely boned, but he managed to make one air to ground unit before lifting off his buildings and flying to the corner, where he proceeded to just camp there while I killed the rest of his stuff. He slowly, slowly started picking apart my army that couldn't hit him, but there was no way he could win.
He then had a disconnection "error", which I have a feeling was just him unplugging his router, cause it happened just as he saw I got air to air units out >.>

Then one other time I was playing, I destroyed a guys base, but his drones survived, and proceeded to just start making expansions one at a time in random corners of the map. He had no chance of winning or pulling back, but he prolonged the game by a good 10-15 minutes by just relocating his destroyed base somewhere else, to just make the game that much more bitter.

Stuff like that is just plain bullshit, and anyone who does it is an ass. If you prolong a game that you have 100% no chance of winning, then you're a dick. It's different if you're behind in say an fps, because then you are still generally on equal footing when you meet, but he's just closer. If you're very far behind in an RTS or MOBA and obviously can't win, why do you keep going? It's just prolonging the boring part of the game.

 

[Vegosiux]

If you're very far behind in an RTS or MOBA and obviously can't win, why do you keep going? It's just prolonging the boring part of the game.

Well, the "obviously can't win" isn't always so obvious, nor is it always correct. If you're a MOBA fan, you might find this game interesting. Warning, it's an hour long.


In short, Moscow 5 had CLG EU at a 25K gold disadvantage, could take four consecutive barons with impunity while CLG were pushed back into their base, before CLG rallied back for the most impressive comeback I've seen to date. But I'm pretty sure a 25K gold disadvantage would be something you'd consider "obviously can't win", especially if one of the best teams on the planet is in the winning position, no?

I've seen many more games turned around, on a slighly less impressive scale, of course, but being at a massive disadvantage does not equal defeat. Maybe you're just winning very expensively[footnote]Cookies for those who get the reference[/footnote].

Now, prolonging the game and then faking a disconnect? That's a dick move that just wastes everybody's time and should be abhored and punished.

But, not surrendering when you're at a disadvantage? Nobody owes you that. If you're not willing to play on until the natural conclusion of the match, then you are not willing to win.

Again, assuming there is genuine interest in putting up proper resistance and trying your damnest to turn the game around despite being in a hopeless position; or just making your last stand and going down in a blaze of glory. If you're just trolling, you're just wasting time.

 

[General Twinkletoes]

If you're very far behind in an RTS or MOBA and obviously can't win, why do you keep going? It's just prolonging the boring part of the game.

Well, the "obviously can't win" isn't always so obvious, nor is it always correct. If you're a MOBA fan, you might find this game interesting. Warning, it's an hour long.


In short, Moscow 5 had CLG EU at a 25K gold disadvantage, could take four consecutive barons with impunity while CLG were pushed back into their base, before CLG rallied back for the most impressive comeback I've seen to date. But I'm pretty sure a 25K gold disadvantage would be something you'd consider "obviously can't win", especially if one of the best teams on the planet is in the winning position, no?

I've seen many more games turned around, on a slighly less impressive scale, of course, but being at a massive disadvantage does not equal defeat. Maybe you're just winning very expensively[footnote]Cookies for those who get the reference[/footnote].

Now, prolonging the game and then faking a disconnect? That's a dick move that just wastes everybody's time and should be abhored and punished.

But, not surrendering when you're at a disadvantage? Nobody owes you that. If you're not willing to play on until the natural conclusion of the match, then you are not willing to win.

Again, assuming there is genuine interest in putting up proper resistance and trying your damnest to turn the game around despite being in a hopeless position; or just making your last stand and going down in a blaze of glory. If you're just trolling, you're just wasting time.

That's true for a lot of the time, but in these cases they had no chance of survival. I had my units all over the map in the first game, so he couldn't safetly land anywhere. He new that, and just prolonged the game.

In the second game, he didn't have a base at all. Ever. As soon as I killed one, he'd put down another one, but I could always reach it in time before it finished, and I had scouting all around the map with air to air units, so I could see whenever he put a base down. He just forced me run back and forth. He couldn't make units and he never finished his base in time before I killed it to even make more workers. He wasn't even being sneaky with it, he put his bases in plain sight.

I don't expect people to surrend when they're behind, because you can pull back from that fine. I expect them to surrend when they have no base, no army and 2 workers.

That's the difference I talked about between deathmatch style games and RTS's. In a deathmatch, if you have 9 kills to go and he has 1, you're still equal when you fight head on. Your previous losses don't make a difference, and you can pull ahead by just having a 9 kill streak. In an RTS, every single fight takes it's toll and snowballs until even if a world champion took over, they couldn't hold back. No one can against a force at least 5 times as strong.

 

[Mirroga]

snip

Let's just say the chances of comeback is almost close to nil in pub games especially if no one got DC'd or outright left. Thank god LAN gaming still exists in some internet cafes to simply agree into just starting a new game once the curbstomping is just outright cruel or unfun.

 

[Rumpsteak]

No, unsporting conduct is not a problem legislation will solve. It is up to the community to regulate itself. If everyone stopped playing with those that pollute the game atmosphere the issue would disappear overnight. What we have now is people wanting an outside authority to take away any and all sense of responsibility so that they don't have to stand up for what they want.

 

[krazykidd]

Well , i don't think it's that big a problem . Taunting/teabagging , and trash talking is a valid tactic to gain the upperhand in battle . Why? Because it can unsettle your opponent in future rounds . People usually learn to ignore it completly , but if they don't and get flustered , their ability to play suffers . It's basically a mind game .

That being said , there are lines that shouldn't be crossed such as racial slurs, and sexist remarks . Thats where everyone should logically draw the line . Any additional rules should be stated before hand .

I just read what i wrote , and i didn't make it clear , i was talking about in a tournament settings. When it comes to online , human decency is lone gone .

 

[Vegosiux]

Well , i don't think it's that big a problem . Taunting/teabagging , and trash talking is a valid tactic to gain the upperhand in battle . Why? Because it can unsettle your opponent in future rounds .

To be honest, I'm kind of tempted to call post hoc rationalization on that one. Yes, it's true that taunting and mistreating your opponent is more likely to make future matches easier for you, but I highly doubt that's the main reason people do it.

Also, it seems like the virtual equivalent of spiking your opponent's drink before the match when deliberately done with that goal. Which, I'm actually inclined to concede that it "can" be part of the metagame, and the other guy should simply learn to not let himself get spiked...but at the same time, it just makes it look like you're not confident enough in your own skills.

Dick Dastardly Stops to Cheat [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DickDastardlyStopsToCheat] notwithstanding.

 

[burningdragoon]

Yes, unsportsmanlike conduct penalties should exist in the gaming world. During official, sponsored, professional, etc. events. If you, say, start a pick up game of basketball do you hold the other people to the same standards as you would a professional team playing an in-league game? I don't think so.

 

[dimensional]

Well you get skillful players who I would also say are bad players as well in that they play the game well but they are generally not fun to play with because of the amount of crap you have to put up with i.e smack talk, threats and disconnects if they are losing.

I would say a good player is someone who plays the game fairly and handles themselves graciously whether they win or lose they will give every game there best shot and play because they like playing not to win although of course thats the point of the game but its just not a driving force. A good player is not necessarily a skillful player though if they are both I would say they are great players personally but starting to split hairs now.

I am not sure of the rules at actual competitive game tournaments but I suspect their are penalties already for unsportsmanlike conduct but if not there should be, there is a difference between light hearted smack talk and spitting hateful and venomous remarks at people. I suspect if you actually attacked someone you would get instantly banned and possibly arrested.

For just online casual games as in not tournament events its a bit harder to do you just have to treat others the way you would like to be treated despite it being extremely hard to bit your tongue sometimes or not do something completely dickish when they are doing it to you.

 

[The Wykydtron]

Well I blame UMVC3's less than civil online community on the inclusion of a taunt button... Why? Why? Why the fuck would they even add a taunt button into the game? This is why I like the Skullgirls way of having your character take up a win pose at the end. This should be mandatory for any fighting game.

Post match taunting, especially when the guy has Swagneto/Dante combos so he feels he has to taunt after just as an added "fuck you" is something I despise. There is no fucking call for it.

Unless they taunted you during the match and you just made a hilarious comeback of course. Then mash that taunt button you sexy beast!

I feel League of Legends needs to be mentioned. After going onto a new lvl 1 account (because my actual one get suspended for a few days because lagging out a few times = ragequit in whatever retarded bot the system uses :/) the community is actually worse before level 30... I have no fucking idea how this happened.

At least you have a reason to rage in LoL, it's a fact that your team doing badly will lose you the match. Not enough people are happy enough in their own performance I think. Even if we lose if I know I did well i'm fine with it.

I have to mention my last game where I was 2/20/4 with Annie and literally nobody was raging, nobody. Mind blown.

I blame LeBlanc for her bullshit burst as soon as she hits 6... Really I was feeding nobody but LB and she falls off hard mid to late game so no harm done. Besides once you die about 5 times in a row and get no kills you are worth basically nothing to the enemy team. People need to remember that

I also blame my new account for it's lack of champions. All I wanted to do was play Support Leona but no, fucking suspended for AFK when I was actually not AFK. Not my fault the auto-reconnect system is broken as fuck sometimes.

Well, as for suggestions about LoL conduct. Take it away Siv

 

[Simonoly]

In my opinion the best gamers you could ever hope to play against in a multiplayer are those that are actively concerned with how fun the whole experience is for everyone involved. Those people get automatic friend requests on Steam, XBL, PSN whatever.

 

[Vigormortis]

snip

What you described right there is exactly why I got out of amateur and professional gaming leagues.

I will admit, during my time playing competitive games like Quake 3, Counter-Strike, Left 4 Dead, Unreal Tournament, Starcraft, etc, I met a few very nice people. They were very laid back, easy going, and friendly. And, they were also very very good at the games they played.

Yet, they virtually never displayed any unsportsman-like attitudes. They usually preferred fair play over acting like a dick towards the other players.

The problem is, those kinds of pro-level players comprise maybe a tenth of a percent of the entire competitive gaming community. (and that's being generous)

I guess what I'm saying is, I agree with your assertions. I think sportsmanship and a players behavior should definitely play a role in determining their "skill".

snip

The guy in the vid you posted is the exact kind of person/gamer I was talking about above. Someone who plays to win but ALSO plays to have fun and understands that the other people you're playing with are actual humans. I.E. there's no call for being a dick in online gaming.

 

[Vigormortis]

In my opinion the best gamers you could ever hope to play against in a multiplayer are those that are actively concerned with how fun the whole experience is for everyone involved. Those people get automatic friend requests on Steam, XBL, PSN whatever.

I do the same thing. If only as a show of respect as I feel that sort of behavior, being as rare as it is, should be rewarded or, in the very least, thanked.

'Course, on the opposite end you get those people that will send angry, hateful, bile-filled messages to someone who's trying to keep a game fun or fair. As if them attempting to make sure everyone has fun is somehow "the worst dick-move ever".

I've lost count the number of times I've gotten message like that on Xbox Live and after matches of Left 4 Dead (PC).