Comprehensive PS3 vs Xbox360 - I have no idea of the pros/cons and lots of questions

[Superbeast]

I have searched around the forum for these threads - and the closest one I could find came up as a "404 error". I know this community frowns on "VS" threads but please bear with me, it's not one in the usual style.

I come from a background of moderate console use. I only played on friends' N64s and Dreamcasts (strangely I really, really liked the DC), but owned a PS1 (the block one), PS2 (large clunky one) and Xbox (An Eastern-Block one called Disco). All of these were "factory standard" and the cheapest available. I dislike gaming on PC (bar strategy games) so have never really looked into much modification etc (I got a pretty good gaming set-up when I bought the PC a couple of years ago, that's it).

There are a lot of threads that ask which platform is best, and it's full of jargon I don't understand (or referencing aspects of games I have never played), and rapidly descend into flame-wars. I'm hoping for something a little more...all-encompassing and less fanboy-ish with this thread.

So, can I ask the community for a comprehensive run-down on the differences between the PS3 and 360?

I'm not adding a poll, firstly to prevent fanboy "vote-and-run" issues, and also because I have a comprehensive list of issues/questions that cannot be answered with a single vote, as naturally some aspects one console will do better than the other.

I've checked out these threads, but they have only left me with more questions:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/326.81646?page=1
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/op-ed/794-Console-Wars-Failure-Rates-and-E3
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/88145-PS3-Is-Dying-On-The-Shelves


Ok, here goes, this is a big wall o'text, so consider yourselves warned:

- I've heard the PS3 can't play PS2 games but the 360 plays Xbox games. Are both these statements true (I own more PS2 games but play the Xbox more...so this may help decide)?

- What is with the various modifications available for consoles? There are various types of 360 that I can barely discern between (I'm thinking of an Elite, as it's the top-of-the-line so should have enough hard-drive space to last me forever) but if the PS3 is anything like the PS2 then it's got expansion ports, so what can be done with it?

- I do not view myself as a "console fanboy" - I have pangs of loyalty on occasion, for the PS1 was my first console and I love the Final Fantasy games and Gran Turismo. But the Halo series really got me into playing regularly and has been much better multi-player than anything on the PS2 so far.

- Are there actually many "console exclusive" games? I've already mentioned I don't like playing non-Strategy games on the PC (I've heard before that PS3 and PC is the smartest combination, so that's a no-go for me) and I wonder if I'll be limiting myself by choosing either console. I enjoy FPS games, which is why my Xbox holds me, but at the same time Final Fantasy probably has the most play-hours of all my consoles (including Halo multi-player). How do the consoles perform in terms of FPS/RPG/Adventure exclusivity?

- I've heard the 360 has some serious hardware issues, moreso than the PS3 does. Are these problems still so extreme with the newer models (like the Elite)? This is the biggest thing that's putting me off a "next-gen" console right now, that it may break all too soon for the amount of money shelled out for it (which console has the best/longest warranty?). My PS2 went down a flight of stairs and (aside from one disk getting stuck inside, later fished out) still functions, and my Xbox has been stood on and rattled around in numerous cars, buses and bikes (I'm not careless with the consoles, they've just been used and moved a lot over the years). Here's what definitely concerns me: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/93943-Xbox-360s-Death-Rate-is-54-2

- How do the online services rate? This is something I'm hoping to do when I get to uni, as I'll have free internet. I read the PS3 article and it states that PSN is free - is this still true? How does it compare (reliability/player-base/douche-baggery) to XboxLive?

- The PS3 review says the games/online weren't so hot but the future looked promising. The time of writing was Dec2008, have things improved since then (ie "public-opinion good titles") and what is there to come in the future? How does this compare with things up the pipeline for the 360?

- Is BlueRay all it's cracked up to be? I've never seen a Blueray DVD (not owning anything that can play it), but the graphics on Halo3 seemed pretty damn good without blueray.

- How good are the controllers? I like the wireless-ness of the 360 and that option for "plug-and-play" battery recharging seems excellent. What's on offer for the PS3, is that wireless too?

- What's more fun to play with groups of people? I've had good times with split-screen Halo, and likewise with some ActuaTennis or something-or-other on a mates 360. Is the same level of multiplayer fun possible on the PS3, or is it still stuck to 2 controllers?

- I would finally like to add that cost isn't so much an issue when looking at a single platform. I wish to treat myself before I go to university (taking the console, insured to the gills, with me) as I've been scrimping and saving for a while, and am tired of the sluggish, noisy (but ultimately loyal) last-generation consoles I have. I would be looking at the 360 Elite, which seems to cost similar to a PS3, since I want a console that (should) last me as long as my older ones have.

Sorry for the massive wall of text, and the sheer number of questions (doubtless I will have more as time goes on as well). But I have come from some pretty old consoles and I'm looking to upgrade (and the PS3 has been out what, 3 years now? So I'm not exactly fast). I was fortunate enough to be able to coerce my parents into getting me both a PS2 and an Xbox, but those were (relatively) cheap consoles - my Xbox was a refurbished model that came with a controller and Halo2 for about £80 for example. Since I'm purchasing my own consoles (being significantly older) and off to university buying both simply isn't an option.

Serious props and cookies for anyone that made it through this post, hopefully there are people out there that can answer some (or all) my questions without a simple "use search" (since I couldn't find anything totally relevant or this comprehensive). Many thanks for all thoughts shared.

PS: And why isn't there a sticky for this kind of thread? Surely this is a dilemma that comes up regularly?

 

[Pimppeter2]

Get with the console your friends are playing.

 

[grimsprice]

Hahahahahahahahahaha. You even said all you found of versus threads was a blocked one. Hahahahahaha. And you still wrote a versus thread? High-larious.

OT: get a ps3 for the sole reason that if you buy a 200 dollar video card for your pc then you can play most if not all the 360 games, and then you'll have a ps3. And pc games are 10 bucks cheaper then console games.

PC/ps3 is the best combo. unless you really can't wait for gears 2 for pc.... or halo...

And the only difference between a non-strategy game on the pc and the 360 is the mouse keyboard/ controller setup. You can get a controller for a pc and its the same as a 360.

And the ps3 has ratchet and clank. nough said.

 

[tsolless]

All 360s can play some xbox games. Xbox games need to have a patch made so that they can be played on the 360 so not all of them work but they are being added. There's a site somewhere with the list...
The newer versions of the PS3 can't play any PS2 games. Older version can play some I believe.

Not sure on the PS3 versions.

Both systems have exclusives, yes. Depends on what kind of games you like really. FFXIII is going to be on both systems though.

Yes, the 360 has much higher failure rates than the 360. This forces you to provide the warranty and send it off to Microsoft for a while. Pain. There's a surview that claimed failure rates of 52% for the 360 but that seems high to me. It is still quite high though. Keeping the 360 from overheating is the main thing.

PSN is free, 360 is not. I have heard that PSN is not as great of an online experience as the 360 one (due to Microsoft money to make from keeping it running well) and can be faster. This is hearsay though so take it with salt.

I prefer the 360 games but mileage will vary. There has been a lot more games coming out since 2008 for the PS3 though. Here's a link for games to be release. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_in_video_gaming

BlueRay is amazing for movies but doesn't show up that well on all of the PS3 games. A fair amount of PS3 games only support up to 720p which won't show as well as 1080p on the 360. 1080p on the PS3 is better than 10870p on 360 though.

Not sure on controllers. Some people complain about how the 360 controllers are too large and can be uncomfortable. I don't have a problem with it though but it is a legitimate complaint.

Local Play has been almost completely axed on the 360. Most games are online only, not all. Not sure on the PS3.

---

It really really does come down to what kind of games you would like.

edit:

In the interest of full disclosure, I own a 360 exclusively. However I am not what some would consider a fanboy and plan to get a PS3 slim.

 

[Supreme Unleaded]

I say get a PS3, It has the Gran Turismo series and you said you liked that.

Also (quoting Yahtzee, its a good description) th PS3 is a reliable black monster, it wony let you down like the 360.

The wirless controller is better on the PS3 in my opinion, it has an internal lithion ion batter, it doesn't seem to have as long of a life but all you have to do is plug it into the PS3 for about an hour and its recharged, and you can do this while playing. Plus (growing up with the PS2) I think the configuration [for the controller] is better than the 360's.

The online is free for the Ps3 and is slighly worse than the 360, it doesn't have a party system and the invites are a little weird, but other than that it's relativly the same. And since the Ps3 doesn't come with a mic, the people that have them are usually adults so there are less annoying twats for you to listen to.

The PS3's lineup looks very prommising for the near future, with M.A.G. (Massive Action Game) and Modnation Racers (the ones that i thought off the top of my head, there are more) your sure to have a good time. I think Gran Turismo 5 (the full version) is coming out it 2010.

The Blu Ray isn't all that important, it might look slighly better if you put it under a microscope but I don't notice much of a difference, of course your TV has a big influence. (I have a 1080p 22 inch HDTV).

And i think it's best to get a PS3 because most 360 games can be played on your existing PC so you get the best of both worlds.

and the PS3 is now $299 which is $100 less than it previosly was.

P.S. I have owned both the 360 and PS3, so I am unbiased.

 

[DizzleMcSizzle]

I have owned both.
As soon as i bought my Playstation 3 the xbox got very dusty. I dont really know what it is and i was considered a "xbox fanboy" by my friends.

The PS3 is in the long run alot cheaper in that theres no charges for online play (in my experience PSN is just as good as XBL) the web browser on the PS3 is better... as the 360 doesnt have one.

PS3 controllers come with the cable etc to recharge them and you have to pay out for the Xbox equivilent. same goes for the wireless capabilities, built in on PS3 and an added extra on xbox.

BluRay films look awesome but if you dont have a High End HDTV i wouldnt bother too much, i believe the PS will upscale normal dvds anyway although i may be wrong there.

In terms of the hard drives you have to go out and buy Microsofts own 120gb for a ridiculous amount of money, PS3 theres a slot at the bottom that comes out and its a laptop hardrive so you could essential get yourself on amazon and buy a 500gb harddrive, put it in your ps3 and it will b a 500gb PS3

In terms of the failure rates i went through 3 xboxs in about 2 and a half years. have had my playstation for almost a year now and not a blip.


go for the ps3.

 

[SomeUnregPunk]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360

[http://img31.imageshack.us/i/56220555.png/]

Scroll down until you see that colorful chart. It tells you the difference between the models. Get the systems that has the most games you want to play. PS3 though seems to have a longer service life.
In regard to the post above, SONY actually gives for free the application you need to format a hard-drive for the ps3 if you want to swap the PS3's hard-drive. but since your not into modification, you probably don't care.

 

[Furbush]

Fan-boys will quote you specs and game line ups all day but it doesn't matter. The biggest difference I've seen is X-Box LIVE (Halo 3 in particular) is a more competitive, serious, and younger community while PSN is more of a relaxed and older community. In reality, you won't fill your X-Box hard drive (Demos and X-Box Originals are like 3-6gb and arcade games are like 1-5gb)or see a significant difference in Blu Ray quality. With the new price drop, there isn't a big gap in price to look at. Both consoles have a variety of good games and you will be happy with either.

The defining factor in your choice should be how many of your friends have a PS3 or an X-Box 360. You're going to have the console your friends have so you can play together or barrow games from one another.

 

[Superbeast]

Thanks for the replies so far. The rundowns are really helpful (as are the lists of games - I'm going through making lists of what games are for what console right now).

As for what consoles my friends own, one owns a 360, one owns a Wii, and the other owns all 3 (never uses any of them). None of them have online play either, so it's totally irrelevant (or a whitewash either way).

I am also going to be getting a new PC monitor at the same time (a nice, big HD one) - mainly as I won't have room for a TV as well, and watch TV online as it is, so might as well just "pimp my monitor". Slightly better speakers (surround!) and as a guitar player I have a selection of amps kicking around too. So the non-console "hardware" should be taken care of pretty well.

SomeUnregPunk, you say you can add a bigger hard-drive, how does the "out the box" PS3 compare memory-wise to the 360 Elite? What other modifications can be made to the PS3 (since I may get into mod-ing to extend the life/use of the console if I opt for a PS3)?

Oh, another question:

I'm looking at some games like Mirror's Edge, Eat Lead, Fallout 3, Assassins Creed, Saint's Row* etc. that are multi-platform; and some games that are exclusive (MGS4 - ability to download MGS1 as well - for PS3 and Halo/ODST for 360). What I am pretty interested in is getting some slick-looking games, since I'm used to relative mediocrity from the Xbox and shite from the PS2.

Mirror's Edge looked absolutely stunning on the PS3, but Halo 3 looked pretty darn good on the 360 (but this was on a massive TV which might have altered perceptions somewhat).

Which console handles the high-graphics games best? I've heard the PS3 is supposedly better due to it's cores and stuff and being blu-ray, but it's actually slower than normal DVD games and most games don't cater for the high-end spectrum of the PS3. Are there going to be some high-quality games for the PS3 in the future, or is the decline in console exclusivity going to mean the extra cash for the potential of the PS3 never actually gets used?

*hopefully this shows I have a decent spectrum of games under consideration?

++EDIT++

Hahahahahahahahahaha. You even said all you found of versus threads was a blocked one. Hahahahahaha. And you still wrote a versus thread? High-larious.

Well, given that this isn't a "I fink my console is the bested. Discuss." topic I may be allowed some leniency in entitling it a "PS3 vs 360" thread. It's because I know sod all (or very, very little) about either console and I was after some input from the wider community - heck, I don't even know the differences between the PS3 and the 360 (all the techno-babble and fanboyism in the PS3 Review thread thoroughly confused me) apart from one's blu-ray and made by Sony and the other...isn't, and that both are obscenely powerful and fun.

 

[Iskenator67]

I'm not even going to get into this.
360-Good online, good games, system fails, good price
PS3-bad online, bad price, good games, no system fails
That's the watered down version of it. I was never one for details.

 

[Superbeast]

I'm not even going to get into this.
360-Good online, good games, system fails, good price
PS3-bad online, bad price, good games, no system fails
That's the watered down version of it. I was never one for details.

I'm not even going to get into this.
360-Good online, good games, system fails, good price
PS3-bad online, bad price, good games, no system fails
That's the watered down version of it. I was never one for details.

Bad online?
Clearly you havnt played much of PSN have you?
OP, seriously you just had to make this fucking thread that has been done, TO FUCKING DEATH.

That's just flame-bait, and is not what I'm after.

I've already explained that I'm not doing a "competative" vs thread - the searches just found flame-filled topics that didn't explain the differences between the systems in anything other than "lolz, urs sucks".

I'm heading into this "next gen" of consoles when the latest game I bought was Gun. Back then consoles were simple things and not all that different, and the sony/microsoft babble confuses me.

 

[Iskenator67]

I'm not even going to get into this.
360-Good online, good games, system fails, good price
PS3-bad online, bad price, good games, no system fails
That's the watered down version of it. I was never one for details.

Bad online?
Clearly you havnt played much of PSN have you?
OP, seriously you just had to make this fucking thread that has been done, TO FUCKING DEATH.

Let's see Valve does not even support there PS3 titles. Witch is why there is no updates for them. Microsoft has sold 28 million, Sony has sold 22 million as of November 2008. Most PS2 exclusives have jumped ship. But both Microsoft and Sony are fucking up by trying to milk the motion sensor cow. Leave that half dead beast to Nintendo and get back to work on the good games.

 

[saintchristopher]

I'm actually impressed by the level-headedness displayed in this thread. I suppose when you work at a Gamestop and never hear any opinion that doesn't contain the words "suck" and/or "rule", you tend to get cynical.

As a Playstation 3 owner only (i don't have much money to my name, and by gum I wanted MGS4) I can tell you I have yet to regret the purchase. if you've got the TV for it, spring for an HDMI cable. Buy Blu-Rays on the cheap from Amazon. In fact, make all your game purchases on the cheap at Amazon or other such sites. Avoid retail altogether if you can. Trust me. I work at a Gamestop.

The issue about the online service seems a tad overblown. With Live, you're paying for it, so i'd expect it to have some nifty features. and it does. It's a more ubiquitous, centralized experience. But for a free service, Playstation Network is nothing to sneeze at. It doesn't really have a centralized point of entry like Live (discounting Home, which is a sad story for another day), so most communities are specific to each game. The Killzone and LittleBigPlanet communities I've found are far and away the most accessible and welcoming, and with games like ModNation Racers on the way, which like LBP are super-focused on user-generated content, the communities for such games are probably the friendliest.

The Blu-Ray-or-not issue is simply one of developer experience. As more developers work with the PS3 and tap into what it can do, we will see more games that will start to pull away from 360 in terms of graphics and overall scale (unless you're Valve, in which case you'll just complain that it's 'too hard' to develop for and abandon it). Multiplatform games will never show you much of a difference, as it's just easier to port the game over between platforms and be done with it. but if you take a look at the exclusives, like Killzone 2, and like Infamous, and even like Uncharted, which was practically a launch title, there does seem to be that something extra.

Don't get me wrong. i'm not bashing the Xbox. I just don't have one, so it's hard for me to speak about it. I did enjoy Mass Effect when I got to play that, and I've been wanting to try Fable 2 since I loved the original, but there are few 360 exclusives that are tempting me away.

Of course, there is the issue of popularity, and the 360 did get the jump on the market, as well as have the cheaper console for going on 3 years now. So it's no surprise that a lot of your friends probably have the 360, and honestly? That's a perfectly valid reason to go with the 360.

I've said all I feel qualified to say, I think. I leave the rest up to you. Happy Hunting.

 

[Superbeast]

I'm actually impressed by the level-headedness displayed in this thread. I suppose when you work at a Gamestop and never hear any opinion that doesn't contain the words "suck" and/or "rule", you tend to get cynical.

As a Playstation 3 owner only (i don't have much money to my name, and by gum I wanted MGS4) I can tell you I have yet to regret the purchase. if you've got the TV for it, spring for an HDMI cable. Buy Blu-Rays on the cheap from Amazon. In fact, make all your game purchases on the cheap at Amazon or other such sites. Avoid retail altogether if you can. Trust me. I work at a Gamestop.

The issue about the online service seems a tad overblown. With Live, you're paying for it, so i'd expect it to have some nifty features. and it does. It's a more ubiquitous, centralized experience. But for a free service, Playstation Network is nothing to sneeze at. It doesn't really have a centralized point of entry like Live (discounting Home, which is a sad story for another day), so most communities are specific to each game. The Killzone and LittleBigPlanet communities I've found are far and away the most accessible and welcoming, and with games like ModNation Racers on the way, which like LBP are super-focused on user-generated content, the communities for such games are probably the friendliest.

The Blu-Ray-or-not issue is simply one of developer experience. As more developers work with the PS3 and tap into what it can do, we will see more games that will start to pull away from 360 in terms of graphics and overall scale (unless you're Valve, in which case you'll just complain that it's 'too hard' to develop for and abandon it). Multiplatform games will never show you much of a difference, as it's just easier to port the game over between platforms and be done with it. but if you take a look at the exclusives, like Killzone 2, and like Infamous, and even like Uncharted, which was practically a launch title, there does seem to be that something extra.

Don't get me wrong. i'm not bashing the Xbox. I just don't have one, so it's hard for me to speak about it. I did enjoy Mass Effect when I got to play that, and I've been wanting to try Fable 2 since I loved the original, but there are few 360 exclusives that are tempting me away.

Of course, there is the issue of popularity, and the 360 did get the jump on the market, as well as have the cheaper console for going on 3 years now. So it's no surprise that a lot of your friends probably have the 360, and honestly? That's a perfectly valid reason to go with the 360.

I've said all I feel qualified to say, I think. I leave the rest up to you. Happy Hunting.

Thank you, that's a nice run-down on the online aspects of each console (and godofgames and delta4062 is the kind of thing I'm after, not the brief summaries that are open to flaming).

It sounds like the online features for both consoles are perfectly passable. Since you, sintchristopher, have a PS3 - what's the multiplayer like? Are there any "split screen" games (like the ones I'm used to, and are more suited for Uni entertainment) that were mentioned to be disappearing from the Xbox line-ups, or is all multiplayer done online?

 

[Aardvark]

I go with the "Get the ones your friends have" option. If online play is your primary reason for getting it, the best way to guarantee the lowest douchebag count is to play with friends.

If single player's your bag, just go through the back catalogs of both systems and concentrate on the exclusives. Whichever one has more exclusives that you want to play, get that.

Blu-ray's pointless unless you have an awesome TV. Even then, it's pretty pointless, as there's only a few movies that are really worth watching on it.

Networking and the various networks. A Live Gold account can set you back a bit, Vs the PS3's $0 cost, but it's so much easier to organise a game and communicate on the 360 than the PS3. Making the headsets cheap, simple dealies that just stick into the controller was the best thing they ever did. The Xbox requires a separate module for wireless connectivity, so if you need that, factor that into the pricing.

Both of them can play media from other devices on your network, but the PS3 can also act as a media hub. Most formats are supported, but that all depends what media server software you go with. I've found the PS3 much easier to use in this regards, though the 360 does come with that handy remote for extra laziness.

Really though, the only two things that should factor in are what exclusive games you want to play and who with. Put a figure in both columns, then pick the one with the highest score.

 

[Aardvark]

The other thing you might want to consider is the market place. I'm pretty sure a downloadable demo is a requirement for all 360 games, so you have the option to try before you buy for everything. PS3 doesn't have that requirement, so you sometimes get dodgy things happening, like the requirement to pre-order a game to play the demo of it. 360's is easier to use and seems to have more stuff I want, but the PS3 does allow up to 5 systems to play anything that one person has paid for. So if you've got a friend who's a bit of a nut on the PS3 marketplace, get the PS3, get his details, set his account up on your system and go into a downloading frenzy.

 

[saintchristopher]

I'm actually impressed by the level-headedness displayed in this thread. I suppose when you work at a Gamestop and never hear any opinion that doesn't contain the words "suck" and/or "rule", you tend to get cynical.

As a Playstation 3 owner only (i don't have much money to my name, and by gum I wanted MGS4) I can tell you I have yet to regret the purchase. if you've got the TV for it, spring for an HDMI cable. Buy Blu-Rays on the cheap from Amazon. In fact, make all your game purchases on the cheap at Amazon or other such sites. Avoid retail altogether if you can. Trust me. I work at a Gamestop.

The issue about the online service seems a tad overblown. With Live, you're paying for it, so i'd expect it to have some nifty features. and it does. It's a more ubiquitous, centralized experience. But for a free service, Playstation Network is nothing to sneeze at. It doesn't really have a centralized point of entry like Live (discounting Home, which is a sad story for another day), so most communities are specific to each game. The Killzone and LittleBigPlanet communities I've found are far and away the most accessible and welcoming, and with games like ModNation Racers on the way, which like LBP are super-focused on user-generated content, the communities for such games are probably the friendliest.

The Blu-Ray-or-not issue is simply one of developer experience. As more developers work with the PS3 and tap into what it can do, we will see more games that will start to pull away from 360 in terms of graphics and overall scale (unless you're Valve, in which case you'll just complain that it's 'too hard' to develop for and abandon it). Multiplatform games will never show you much of a difference, as it's just easier to port the game over between platforms and be done with it. but if you take a look at the exclusives, like Killzone 2, and like Infamous, and even like Uncharted, which was practically a launch title, there does seem to be that something extra.

Don't get me wrong. i'm not bashing the Xbox. I just don't have one, so it's hard for me to speak about it. I did enjoy Mass Effect when I got to play that, and I've been wanting to try Fable 2 since I loved the original, but there are few 360 exclusives that are tempting me away.

Of course, there is the issue of popularity, and the 360 did get the jump on the market, as well as have the cheaper console for going on 3 years now. So it's no surprise that a lot of your friends probably have the 360, and honestly? That's a perfectly valid reason to go with the 360.

I've said all I feel qualified to say, I think. I leave the rest up to you. Happy Hunting.

Thank you, that's a nice run-down on the online aspects of each console (and godofgames and delta4062 is the kind of thing I'm after, not the brief summaries that are open to flaming).

It sounds like the online features for both consoles are perfectly passable. Since you, saintchristopher, have a PS3 - what's the multiplayer like? Are there any "split screen" games (like the ones I'm used to, and are more suited for Uni entertainment) that were mentioned to be disappearing from the Xbox line-ups, or is all multiplayer done online?

Unfortunately, it seems like the past couple of years, developers have forgotten that somegamers have actual friends that go to each other's houses for some actual human interaction. Most of the shooters from this year forgot about local multiplayer, though many of the sports and racing games included it. The first Motorstorm didn't have it, but the sequel included it, so developers are taking notice and slowly returning local multiplayer to their games. I expect in 2010 we'll see a lot more games include local multiplayer, as the uproar from the game community at large was loud enough for them to notice. I'm sure that goes for the 360 as well as the PS3.