Conflict between Palestine and Israel escalates

[Seanchaidh]

and of course your whole argument is predicated on the idea that the west is just going to bomb random country's infrastructure for no good reason.

I mean...

 

[Silvanus]

there was no such attempt. they approached and then withdrew as a part of ongoing negotiations (which Boris Johnson then disrupted). it's amusing that you can't even get the history right.

"Approached as part of ongoing negotiations"! You cannot be this credulous.

They began shelling the capital and attempted unsuccessfully to encircle it within 2 days, after denying they were going to cross the border. They were then forced to withdraw after counterattack. There was no serious negotiation at this time. This was a failed effort at regime change, expecting a quick collapse; even interviewed Russian soldiers attested that was the aim.

If you've swallowed the line that this was all according to plan, you'll believe anything. "Approached as part of ongoing negotiations".

 

[XsjadoBlayde]

More H3 Israel propaganda bullshiiii

SOURCES
https://docs.google.com/document/d/11...

 

[Seanchaidh]

"Approached as part of ongoing negotiations"! You cannot be this credulous.

yes, i'm sure no one will notice that you just dropped two words and changed the meaning of the sentence entirely.

 

[Ezekiel]

 

[Silvanus]

yes, i'm sure no one will notice that you just dropped two words and changed the meaning of the sentence entirely.

I genuinely didn't realise that you meant only that they withdrew as part of negotiations. Fine.

Nonetheless, the point is that you're trying to convince us that the (unsuccessful) encirclement, (unsuccessful) capture of Hostomel etc, were not aimed at taking the city, but just... to coerce concessions? This is what Putin claimed after the fact, though it contradicts statements from Russian soldiers at the time. But it is not credible to pretend the withdrawal had nothing to do with the fact these operations were thwarted and Russia suffered a defeat in the counterattack. It's very easy and convenient to claim everything went to plan, you always planned to withdraw, after you've suffered a defeat.

"Ukraine has no legitimate executive authority now, nobody to talk to" - Vladimir Putin, 2014.

"There is neither industry, nor a state there in Ukraine. In 2013, there was industry there, but there was no state even then". - Dmitry Medvedev, 2016.

"Ukraine has several million people who need to be partially eliminated and partially squeezed out". - Mikhail Khazin, 2016.

"There is no Ukraine, although there is Ukrainianism – a “specific mental disorder". - Vladislav Surkov (Aide to Putin), 2020.

"In the end, everyone should come to the realization that we have one country, and we are obliged to defend it. And there shouldn’t be another!" - Vyacheslav Volodin, 2022.

"The special military operation will continue until the Nazi Kyiv regime is completely destroyed" - Dmitry Medvedev, 2023.

"There can be no negotiations with the Zelensky regime. We will demand the use of weapons capable of stopping and destroying the Kiev terrorist regime" - Vyacheslav Volodin, 2023.

"The regime must fall, it must be destroyed, it must not remain in this world"-- Dmitry Medvedev, Feb 2024.

"The country will be destroyed, like Sodom and Gomorrah, and the demons will inevitably fall" - Dmitry Medvedev, 2024.

"A bullet or the most severe punishment awaits the entire leadership of the Nazi regime!" - Leonid Slutsky, March 2025.

"I have said many times that I consider the Russian and Ukrainian people to be one nation. In this sense, all of Ukraine is ours,” -Vladimir Putin, this week.

And of course, we have the fact that Russian state media prematurely published a declaration of victory stating that "Ukraine has returned to Russia" a few days after the initial attack.

Russian government and state media language has been grotesquely eliminationist for over a decade now, referring to Ukrainians not only as Nazis but as vermin, rats, "corpse-eaters", Satanists, demons etc; portraying invasion as a defence of traditional, Christian/Orthodox and Russian values against "multiculturalism", "atheism", and all manner of supposed Western ills. This is how it's sold to the Russian people by their own media and their own leaders. It is a project of extermination and expansion.

 

[Hades]

Russian government and state media language has been grotesquely eliminationist for over a decade now, referring to Ukrainians not only as Nazis but as vermin, rats, "corpse-eaters", Satanists, demons etc; portraying

funny thing is that all those descriptions fit the Russians themselves much better and always has. The lack of self awareness in the Kremlin can sometimes be funny.

 

[XsjadoBlayde]

Seems America attacked Iran according to officials tweeting, claiming already done cos they're "the peaceful ones"


time is a flat circle and western colonialist brains are a flat line

also can the media stop pretending israel wasnt the one who started this for fucks sake

 

[crimson5pheonix]

Seems America attacked Iran according to officials tweeting, claiming already done cos they're "the peaceful ones"
View attachment 13444

time is a flat circle and western colonialist brains are a flat line

also can the media stop pretending israel wasnt the one who started this for fucks sake

Presented with no comment.

 

[Gergar12]

Seems America attacked Iran according to officials tweeting, claiming already done cos they're "the peaceful ones"
View attachment 13444

time is a flat circle and western colonialist brains are a flat line

also can the media stop pretending israel wasnt the one who started this for fucks sake

Not Colonialism, just geopolitics.

That said, at least he will be a lame duck president, and MAGA will be defeated in the long run.

 

[tippy2k2]

lol we're all gonna die because every single politician is bought and paid for by AIPAC to allow Israel to command our country to do whatever they want

The only thing The Democrats are going to do is throw a fit that they didn't give Trump permission to start a war with Iran (and as soon as they go for that vote, they'll all madly scramble over each other to hit YAH first).

 

[XsjadoBlayde]

It's the other way around, Israel is Americas outpost for middle east growing control, Iran has always been their last obstacle in the region and why this was inevitable and why democrats aren't even complaining about it cos it's the same old colonial machine that refuses to stop, because the west, America in particular cannot stay on top of their own economic structure without all this underhanded violence and coups, plz look into the history of the CIA and American intervention it's the same old horror playing over again but instead in front of very eyes as we being told it's actually good for us totes honest. There's a podcast called Blowback that's really useful for a start, but Israel isn't the top they're just another malformed baby of American (and British) empire. It's why the genocide was so desperately ignored for so long and why this is being laundered so much in lockstep throughout western media. Don't let America trick you into failing for the antisemetic crap they been more than happy to ferment and nurture. Israel relies on US/UK weapon shipments and money they are quite useless without it, the tap could've been turned off at any time in modern and distant history. zionism is also a western bastardisation of Jewish beliefs, reconstructed to serve the empire (and a super fucked up Christian evangelical apocalyptic prophecy of the second coming of jesus where all Jewish people have to be in Israel and any who don't convert to Christianity in front of him for the rapture will be sent to hell, aka killed while goodie twoshoes whities get their shortcut to the pearly gates) instead of criticise it

Patrick Lawrence: “Israel does ‘the wet work.’”

Zionism and the neoconservatives.

scheerpost.com

was written inbetweeen last election results and trump taking office 2nd time;

Closer to our time, Yasuhiro Nakasone, Japan’s nationalist premier during the Reagan years, famously pledged to make his country America’s “unsinkable aircraft carrier in the Pacific.” This was in 1983, just as President Reagan was intently re-escalating tensions with the Soviet Union after a period of détente. Reagan and his national-security people—neoconservatives very prominent among them—were especially fond of aircraft carriers made of land. While serving as Reagan’s secretary of state,

Alexander Haig called Israel “the largest American aircraft carrier in the world that cannot be sunk.”

There is a useful lesson in this history. Haig, a four-star general who had also served as chief of staff in the Nixon White House, understood: The Zionist state exercises extraordinary influence in Washington by way of what we call the Israel lobby: There can be no underestimating this. But Israel is at bottom an instrument of American power, just as Japan has been since its 1945 defeat: It is peripheral, not metropolitan—the machine, not the operator.

-

Neoconservatives, it is well to remind ourselves, are not in the habit of letting America’s clients dictate to them. They are in the habit of imposing American dominance on others irrespective of all legalities or norms or notions of common decency. And their givenness to letting proxies on the ground do the wet work, as the phrase goes in intelligence circles, is well documented. One need look no further than the Biden regime’s shameful encouragement of the Israelis’ terror campaign in Gaza, and now in Lebanon, for a case in point.

-

The world has wondered for years whether the Israelis will attack Iran, which the Zionist regime has long considered its archenemy in the region. It took Israel 25 days to retaliate after the Islamic Republic’s 1 October missile attack on Israel in response to Hassan Nasrallah’s assassination. It was, once again, a carefully calibrated operation. The I.D.F., we must note, did exactly what the Biden White House asked when it, the I.D.F., avoided hitting Iran’s nuclear facilities and its extensive oil-production infrastructure.

-

But if Tel Aviv and Tehran remain in tit-for-tat territory, the prospect of a decisive Israeli attack on the Islamic Republic is still closer to a “when” than an “if.” And I would say the odds are likely to worsen as Trump reoccupies the White House. Any such aggression against Iran, especially if Trump blesses it, would bear implications so extensive as instantly to transform the regional war Israel is obviously intent on waging into a global conflict.

Again to be noted: As Israel contemplated its reply to Iran’s retaliation of 1 October, Biden’s national-security people made their approval implicitly but very clear, notably by sending the I.D.F. an advanced missile-defense system and the technicians needed to operate it. This, to lend specificity to the above-noted point, is the kind of thing Biden’s neocons will leave to Trump’s.


-


Official Washington, the media that serve it, and the research institutes that do a great deal of its thinking will continue to show us the perspiration that breaks out on their brows as the Israelis proceed with their savage war against its neighbors. The reality is very different and not at all difficult to explain: It may look as if Israel acts in defiance of Washington’s wishes—just as it is supposed to look—but this is calculated appearance. There is no such defiance, in my interpretation. The Zionist regime is simply doing the wet work in behalf of U.S. policy across West Asia. Israel’s indifference to international law and humanity’s accepted norms is a local reflection of America’s.

Context and some history are necessary to an understanding of this reality. We find both as we consider the role of neoconservatives in the formation and execution of U.S. foreign policy in West Asia. This influence has been especially pronounced during the post–Cold War decades and, certainly, since the events of 11 September 2001.

Neoconservatism has its roots in the 1940s, when figures such as Irving Kristol were students at City College, where, amid a celebrated interim of intellectual ferment, neoconservative thinking can be said to have congealed into a sort of informal movement. As a matter of cultural history, City College, located in Upper Manhattan, was where a large number of New York Jews received their higher educations during and subsequent to Kristol’s time. I note this detail not as a matter of anti–Semitic thematization but as a matter of fact, one that is significant for its bearing on the present crisis: As neoconservatives began, in later years, to assume positions of power and influence, Zionists or Zionist fellow travelers with unreserved sympathies for Israel were prominent among them. The Israel lobby, to put a complex matter simply, was never far.

A singular moment in the evolution of the neoconservative movement came in 1997, with the formation of the Project for a New American Century. Dick Cheney, the future vice-president, William Kristol, Irving’s son and an influential voice in Washington media, and Robert Kagan, another neocon commentator and an advocate of a vigorously interventionist foreign policy, were among its founders. P.N.A.C.’s power grew quickly to astonishing proportions. Nearly a dozen P.N.A.C. members held senior foreign policy positions in the administration of George W. Bush.

The events of 11 September proved a considerable boost for P.N.A.C. and the broader neoconservative movement. Both advocated, strenuously and with obvious success, invading Iraq and deposing Saddam Hussein. The ambition here was exceptionally large: The neocons, who had by this time put a lasting stamp on U.S. policy, saw Operation Iraqi Freedom as America’s move to implant democracy in the region and, as the phrase still has it, “remake the Middle East.”

The notion of remaking West Asia in the American image has over the years acquired various critics, some in organizations that once favored such aspirations. This is due to the policy framework’s many failures and messes. Foreign Policy, the quarterly journal, published “The U.S. Needs a New Purpose in the Middle East” last June. The Council on Foreign Relations put out a paper titled “It’s Time to Renew America’s Purpose in the Middle East” on the same day—celebrating the thinking of the same scholar, Steven Cook. The post–Cold War decades were “marked by costly and unrealistic efforts,” Cook argues. “It’s time to ditch romantic ideals of remaking the region.” The project is to settle on “a set of achievable goals” determined according to a stricter conception of American interests.

You get this kind of thing routinely out of Washington: sweeping rhetoric urging profound change but amounting to calls for adjustments in the grand plan to preserve American hegemony in whatever region may be at issue. Let us nonetheless find use in the critiques of these organizations and their publications by making of them a mirror: In it we see the full, unfortunate extent to which the neoconservative project continues to define America’s ambitions in the region and so the fundamentals of American policy.

The Biden regime has not once condemned Israel’s invasion of Lebanon, or its attacks on the U.N. presence there, or the Israelis’ flouting again and again of international law. It was less than a month ago that the Biden White House authorized the Pentagon to send Israel the advanced missile-defense system mentioned earlier, known as Terminal High–Altitude Area Defense, or THAAD, along with 100 troops trained to operate it. This cannot be read as other than tacit approval of the Israelis’ apparent plans to attack Iran—and a signal that the U.S. will support such a reckless campaign.

Neither is there any alternative way to read Israel’s role as the executor, for now and for who knows how long, of American policy. All that it is doing—even if Washington would like it to act with less brutality—is in keeping with America’s established objectives. Israel proposes to make itself a sort of regional hegemon: This is just as the U.S. wants it to be, just as the neoconservative cliques envision the future. The Zionist regime’s indifference to international law and humanity’s accepted norms is a local reflection of America’s.

We witness, to make this point another way, a West Asian version of “the international rules-based order” the U.S. will continue to impose upon the world until it is forced, one or another way, to stop. Zionist extremism is useful in this cause, just as the neoconservatives once found al–Qaeda useful and the Islamic State after it.

Bibi Netanyahu is effectively a surfer, riding the wave neoconservatives and their allies set in motion decades ago. Remember when he addressed a joint session of Congress, last July, for the fourth time? He got 72 ovations, 60–odd of them standing: I know, I counted. Let us understand that moment as it was. Congress was not applauding a leader. It was applauding a loyal servant. As the Biden regime departs and Trump’s arrives, it is important to be perfectly clear on this point.

Is it fair to say neoconservatism is what America got instead of the promise of the Kennedy years? This seems to me a sad but valid judgment if we consider the movement’s genesis and history. It follows, however horrible the thought, that Donald Trump is what America gets in 2024 instead of a never-arrived political descendant of the Kenndys, Jack and Bobby, and all they came to stand for before they met their ends.

 

[FakeSympathy]

I am not saying we're entering WW3....BBBUUUTTTT this might be one of those moments we get close to doing so, and people forget about it in like 6 months

 

[meiam]

I am not saying we're entering WW3....BBBUUUTTTT this might be one of those moments we get close to doing so, and people forget about it in like 6 months

Ultimately Iran is pretty weak and can't really put up a fight by itself, Russia would be the only one who would actually really stand up for them, except their bogged down, so they won't bother. China doesn't particularly care, actually they're probably pretty happy with this.

Maybe China might think this is the perfect time to grab Taiwan now that the US decided to get itself caught up in another middle east war, but I doubt it.

But this will entrench the current Iranian regime that was starting to look very woobly. And it saved Bibi from his corruption trial, so there's that, totally worth the hundreds of billions Trump just burn and hundreds if not thousands of human life.

Anyway, democracy was a mistake, it turn out the greatest threat wasn't elite taking control, it was just the dumbest people banding together so that they could feel proud to be dumb.

 

[thebobmaster]

 

[Trunkage]

lol we're all gonna die because every single politician is bought and paid for by AIPAC to allow Israel to command our country to do whatever they want

The only thing The Democrats are going to do is throw a fit that they didn't give Trump permission to start a war with Iran (and as soon as they go for that vote, they'll all madly scramble over each other to hit YAH first).

Point us to how you have done any different to the Dems. They've just been copying what you've been doing for a decade

 

[tippy2k2]

Point us to how you have done any different to the Dems. They've just been copying what you've been doing for a decade

This might come as a shock to some of you but I am not actually a member of Congress nor am I The President of The United States

EDIT: Or is this just another one of your asinine attempts to make me feel guilty for not voting for your warhawk of choice and believe that Kamala "Iran is the greatest adversary to America" Harris wouldn't be doing the exact same thing right now?

 

[Gergar12]

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www.rawstory.com

No, it's not right now, maybe in the future, but no one did anything to George Bush, and he was worse with two land invasions that went on for too long. Presidents have almost full command of foreign policy as long as it's funded, I guarantee you that after some time, the Trump family will have their reputation salvaged by some nutcase talk show host or podcast millionaire who pretends to be liberal to appease the the morons who watch that sort of slop, and almost no one will care.

I would bet my life that Trump will not be impeached removed from office for anything he does to Iran; he could launch 200 nukes in Iran, and no one important would care.

 

[hanselthecaretaker2]

lol we're all gonna die because every single politician is bought and paid for by AIPAC to allow Israel to command our country to do whatever they want

The only thing The Democrats are going to do is throw a fit that they didn't give Trump permission to start a war with Iran (and as soon as they go for that vote, they'll all madly scramble over each other to hit YAH first).

Wouldn’t it be crazy if we all wound up owing Mel an apology?

 

[Seanchaidh]

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www.timesofisrael.com

So glad that Biden prepared the United States to do this.

Nonetheless, the point is that you're trying to convince us that the (unsuccessful) encirclement, (unsuccessful) capture of Hostomel etc, were not aimed at taking the city, but just... to coerce concessions?

A threat (nor a preparation) is not an attempt. You could just not be grossly misleading every time you say something about a US/UK ruling class target. It won't actually kill you.