Confused Briton seeks clarification from right -wing Americans

[Squarez]

As an Englishman, it can be sometimes hard to wrap my head around the psyche of many Americans particularly the type who spends their days arguing on the internets about freedom and patriotism, also known as conservatives.

Now, in recent days there has been much talk of Obama introducing state healthcare, in a similar vein to that of the NHS (Britain's health service), now I can understand why some conservative might disagree with that seeing as it's (in their words) "socialism", but I do not understand the attacks on Britain's health service, calling it "evil" and "Orwellian". I just don't understand why.

True, the NHS isn't the best health service in the world, but if you do not want it, the option exists to to pay shitloads of money for private care. Surely such a system could work just fine in America, the rich/conservative just won't use it and the poor/people who don't want to pay for a service that does it's job just fine.

To me it just seems like an attempt to criticize Obama even more, by calling him socialist, after all (as someone on this very forum said), it's easier to make the other guy look like Hitler, than to make yourself look like Jesus.

So my question to you conservatives out there is.

Why do you not want a free health service when the option for private care will still exist?

EDIT: Just a bit more food for debate. Over there in the US you have "free" education, which is payed for by taxes (which nobody protests against or claims the government is invading their freedom), which is the closest thing comparison to what you have in America to what the NHS is to us, it's a system that is taken for granted and often criticized, but the private option exists.

So my new question is.

Would there be exactly the same reaction to a "free" education system as is there right now for the plans for a "free" healthcare system?

 

[TaborMallory]

Because some people are too shallow-minded to see the truth. It happens with just about everybody... well, here at least.

 

[GodsOneMistake]

I honestly doubt these people actually believe the lies they are spewing... They are only saying these things to cause mass panic in the public, just for the purpose of making the democrats look bad.... They know deep down that our health care system is absolute shit being like the 37th in the whole word, it's just that they are too rich to care for the common people.....

 

[Faps]

They fear it because in all likelihood it will successful and become an untouchable part of American politics in the same way social security has become. The Republicans want small government and low taxes, a public healthcare system will mean an increase in both of these.

That's what it's really about, they are just using fear and lunatics to oppose it because if they had a rational debate about it, most people would be in favour of it.

 

[mikecoulter]

They fear change. But, that's what Americans have always been like. I for one, vote for change.

 

[dodo1331]

I'm honestly pretty tired of all the Republican hate. I'll say what I always say, both sides have good to them, and both have BAD to them.

 

[PedroSteckecilo]

Considering that the United States is one of the only first world countries that DOESN'T have public healthcare and how LOW they sit on the World Health Organization's Healthcare System Scale one would think there would be significant data to suggest that public healthcare is the best current path for healthcare...

However the opponents of Public Healthcare seem to be the type of people who plug their ears and pretend that The United States is the best at everything no matter what anyone else says. They also seem to care far more about lining their own pockets and spreading panic than they do about what is actually good for the people of their country.

 

[Danzaivar]

He's actually trying to get something similar to the rest of Europe, there's no plan for Government hospitals or anything like what we have with the NHS. The NHS is just the most outwardly Socialist healthcare system, and Americans are afraid of anything remotely socialist, so that's what the US right is trying to compare it to.

The fact that everyone thinks he's planning a NHS style system just means their no-campaign is working, heh.

Anyway the reason americans hate the UK system is because they're all about earning your keep, while we're more 'help one another'. Paying for someone else is giving that person a free-ride and is a distinctly un-american thing. It might seem like a bizarre concept if you don't really get American (Or non-european for that matter) culture. If they pay for something they want to be able to use it, so paying for a state healthcare system that they won't use is just abhorrent to most of 'em.

I personally find it funny how in America they use the NHS as the boogeyman, while in the UK they use the US-insurance system as the boogeyman when a discussion over the NHS' future arises.

 

[GodsOneMistake]

I'm honestly pretty tired of all the Republican hate. I'll say what I always say, both sides have good to them, and both have BAD to them.

It's not so much Republican hate, its more idiot republican hate..... Nobody is blaming all republicans, just the idiots who are unwilling to see the world as it is...

 

[Johnnyallstar]

Because some people are too shallow-minded to see the truth. It happens with just about everybody... well, here at least.

Its a power grab, and Orwellian is just a descriptive of how they are presenting itself. Doing a little research you will easily find that the president is back and forth on exactly what is in the bill (of which there are several different versions, not just one) and honestly if you take a historical, or definitive standpoint it is socialism.

Problem is, "socialism" has been so overused in the last 20 years, both correctly and incorrectly, that it has now become empty rhetoric. Nazi, likewise, but the terms are in essence the same, because Nazi stands for National Socialist. Just look at what socialist governments did in 1915-30 Russia and 1930-36 Germany and make the comparison of what the president is saying.

Also, "free" is not as free as you would expect. I don't want my neighbor paying for my health care because I don't want to pay for his. A tax increase is mandatory to be able to pay for it, so it's not "free." There is also going to be rationing within the bill, as it stands in each version, which is due to the fact that they cannot simply afford it for everyone, and the poor will lose out there still.

Also, I want MY CHOICES not the government choosing what health care I will be able to get. Within each version of the bill there are stipulations saying that all major decisions will be made by a government bureaucrat, which takes time that could, and will cause unnecessary mortality and morbidity, due to the lack of immediate on site decision making. I would rather have a doctor, not a politician, make recommendations and keep myself in charge, rather than have a corrupt power hungry politician in charge of my health.

Maybe I'm too much on the "self responsibility" thing because I'm not some mentally deficient, pathetic simpleton who requires the government to hold my hand for every little thing in the world.

 

[dodo1331]

I'm honestly pretty tired of all the Republican hate. I'll say what I always say, both sides have good to them, and both have BAD to them.

It's not so much Republican hate, its more idiot republican hate..... Nobody is blaming all republicans, just the idiots who are unwilling to see the world as it is...

You'd be surprised how many quotes I get for saying anything having to do with my Republican viewpoint. Most of them are incredibly hateful.

 

[Insanum]

I didnt care, Then they pulled the NHS into the arguement.

How dare they! Stupid conservative nut-jobs, On WE are allowed to slag off our health service!

Get your own, THEN slag it off!

Because some people are too shallow-minded to see the truth. It happens with just about everybody... well, here at least.

Its a power grab, and Orwellian is just a descriptive of how they are presenting itself. Doing a little research you will easily find that the president is back and forth on exactly what is in the bill (of which there are several different versions, not just one) and honestly if you take a historical, or definitive standpoint it is socialism.

Problem is, "socialism" has been so overused in the last 20 years, both correctly and incorrectly, that it has now become empty rhetoric. Nazi, likewise, but the terms are in essence the same, because Nazi stands for National Socialist. Just look at what socialist governments did in 1915-30 Russia and 1930-36 Germany and make the comparison of what the president is saying.

Also, "free" is not as free as you would expect. I don't want my neighbor paying for my health care because I don't want to pay for his. A tax increase is mandatory to be able to pay for it, so it's not "free." There is also going to be rationing within the bill, as it stands in each version, which is due to the fact that they cannot simply afford it for everyone, and the poor will lose out there still.

Also, I want MY CHOICES not the government choosing what health care I will be able to get. Within each version of the bill there are stipulations saying that all major decisions will be made by a government bureaucrat, which takes time that could, and will cause unnecessary mortality and morbidity, due to the lack of immediate on site decision making. I would rather have a doctor, not a politician, make recommendations and keep myself in charge, rather than have a corrupt power hungry politician in charge of my health.

Maybe I'm too much on the "self responsibility" thing because I'm not some mentally deficient, pathetic simpleton who requires the government to hold my hand for every little thing in the world.

Fair point, Fairly rational at least. Y'see the thing is, i know an increase in tax is on the cards, But think of the number of lives it could save? With taxpayer money going into healthcare shouldn't that also bring up the standard of healthcare on the bottom line?

 

[Fulax]

The NHS is NOT FREE. It is free at the point of use, but you still pay shit loads in taxes to keep those dirty, understaffed hospitals running. And if you take out private healthcare you still have to pay for the public healthcare you will never use.

Let's be honest people, we all know the NHS is crap. If people didn't think it was free it would be a national disgrace. Instead its apparently something to be proud of.

 

[TaborMallory]

Because some people are too shallow-minded to see the truth. It happens with just about everybody... well, here at least.

Its a power grab, and Orwellian is just a descriptive of how they are presenting itself. Doing a little research you will easily find that the president is back and forth on exactly what is in the bill (of which there are several different versions, not just one) and honestly if you take a historical, or definitive standpoint it is socialism.

Problem is, "socialism" has been so overused in the last 20 years, both correctly and incorrectly, that it has now become empty rhetoric. Nazi, likewise, but the terms are in essence the same, because Nazi stands for National Socialist. Just look at what socialist governments did in 1915-30 Russia and 1930-36 Germany and make the comparison of what the president is saying.

Also, "free" is not as free as you would expect. I don't want my neighbor paying for my health care because I don't want to pay for his. A tax increase is mandatory to be able to pay for it, so it's not "free." There is also going to be rationing within the bill, as it stands in each version, which is due to the fact that they cannot simply afford it for everyone, and the poor will lose out there still.

Also, I want MY CHOICES not the government choosing what health care I will be able to get. Within each version of the bill there are stipulations saying that all major decisions will be made by a government bureaucrat, which takes time that could, and will cause unnecessary mortality and morbidity, due to the lack of immediate on site decision making. I would rather have a doctor, not a politician, make recommendations and keep myself in charge, rather than have a corrupt power hungry politician in charge of my health.

Maybe I'm too much on the "self responsibility" thing because I'm not some mentally deficient, pathetic simpleton who requires the government to hold my hand for every little thing in the world.

Slow down, Stephen King. I wasn't talking about the ones in charge, I was talking about the protesters. You know, the ones without any impact on political decisions.

 

[GodsOneMistake]

I'm honestly pretty tired of all the Republican hate. I'll say what I always say, both sides have good to them, and both have BAD to them.

It's not so much Republican hate, its more idiot republican hate..... Nobody is blaming all republicans, just the idiots who are unwilling to see the world as it is...

You'd be surprised how many quotes I get for saying anything having to do with my Republican viewpoint. Most of them are incredibly hateful.

I'm sure they are, It just happens to be a bad time to be a republican... People blame all republicans for the likes of Fox News, and Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck.... But people who are truly intelligent realize that there are idiots on both sides and don't blame all republicans on the actions of a few

I mean I'm a democrat, and get pissed off by how some republican politicians are just spreading mindless fear, but it also pisses me off how the democrats just sit there and take it and have to fucking backbone.... It's aggravating knowing 90% of your government is run by greedy mindless weak idiots

 

[DND Judgement]

i've stopped trying to understand americans these days... i like to think of myself as intelligent not a genious but still intelligent and i cannot for the life of my wrap my head around the motives for some of the things americans come out with...

 

[Zildjin81]

The problem is even if you don't use it you're paying for it with you're taxes. Its kind of like forcing people to by insurance.

Also, if you have no income then what? Do you get taxed for healthcare anyway? If you don't someone else is paying for you. Not to be Captain America but America is a Democratic Republic not a Socialist state and thats what I believe in. No one gets a free ride.

 

[Skutch]

This pretty much explains everything about conservatives:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_dissonance

 

[TheRightToArmBears]

As far as I can see, it's not very patriotic. It's "Fuck you guys, I'm not going to help other people in my country because I'm a stingy bastard". I don't have the best understanding of the situation so could someone give me some clarification?

 

[Booze Zombie]

The problem is even if you don't use you're paying for it with you're taxes. Its kind of like forcing people to by insurance.

So what? You're paying taxes, anyway.

Might as well use them to do something good like bankrupt corrupt medical corps.