Consenting to Sex

[Wutaiflea]

I've just seen this article on Yahoo (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20101117/tuk-rape-awareness-survey-how-far-is-too-45dbed5.html), and it's pretty frightening stuff.

I find it hard to believe that such a high proportion of men might consider it acceptable to continue having sex with someone who is drunk/otherwise incapacitated or perhaps with someone who says changes their mind.

My experience of men both socially and sexually would say to me that this isn't the case, but I was wondering what the opinions of Escapists would be, considering the anonymity of the internet and that I ask out of professional curiosity (as a rape counsellor).

Please discuss and give your honest opinions on what you believe to constitute rape and what you believe to be a cut-off point where advances should stop.

I'm also interested in how lady Escapists would behave in identical circumstances- is it okay to keep going with a guy who's too drunk to know what's going on?

 

[SixWingedAsura]

I refuse to have relations of any kind with someone who is drunk or incapcitated. I have morals and consider myself to be a gentleman. That kind of behavior is reprehensible and disgusting, not to mention gives guys like me a bad name. I don't even care if someone is trying to so much as a simple kiss, if they're drunk, they're goin' to bed/home/whatever.

 

[Katherine Kerensky]

Eh, one of the things about a guy who is too drunk... it is more than likely he will be unable to... maintain the...
Yeah. One of the things about being drunk. It doesn't affect us girls, though. Which is why, I suppose, some men aim to get us drunk...
But I suppose the number of men who do that with a set goal in mind is very low, especially if the girl has given no consent.
Anyway, no, I wouldn't do anything with a guy that is too drunk to know what is going on, or even a bit tipsy.
And I do not allow myself to become drunk. So nothing bad can happen to me.

 

[Monkfish Acc.]

My opinions on it basically boil down to "if they are conscious enough to consent (and they have), it is not rape".
Still morally wrong if one party is drunk, though.

 

[Vrach]

Incapacitating = big no. But sorry, if a girl jumps a drunk guy, it's fine, if a guy jumps a drunk girl it's rape? That's just hypocrisy.

If you're worried you'll do something you don't like, don't fucking drink. Don't get me wrong, I'm not the type to get a girl drunk for sex, but for fuck's sake, take some responsibility on yourself, no one's shoving a bottle down your throat.

I drink relatively often and I'm perfectly capable of stopping way before I'd be willing to do something I'd otherwise be unwilling if I wasn't drunk. If you're worried you'll get that drunk, bring a friend along and ask her to keep you from doing something you wouldn't.

Mind you that I don't mean getting her drunk until she's sleeping, that's incapacitation. But if a person is drunk and someone asks them if they wanna have sex and they consent, that's not rape. Blaming alcohol? Don't get that drunk next time.

 

[Estocavio]

Personally, i think they should give around consent forms, in which both parties have to mutually consent with video evidence to show the absence of duress, with a third party who is not affiliated with either to back that up.

And lets not be gender biased here shall we

 

[AnnaIME]

Lady Escapist here: No, it is not OK to have sex with anyone, male or female, who is too drunk or in any other way not competent to make decisions. It's not OK to steal from them either, or to take advantage of them in some other way.

That said, it is still stupid to get drunk. There are horrible, unethical people out there. Some of them are people you thought you knew. Don't get drunk. Just don't. It's not OK to use someone just because they made themselves drunk, but that's a cold comfort after the fact.

Rape is a complex concept. Coercion is a complex concept. In my country men can still go free of rape charges if they make it credible that they did not understand that the victim was too afraid to resist. "What, she made me coffee afterwards, would she have done that if I hade raped her?" I say yes, she might well have, in an attempt to normalise the situation and try to prevent it from happening again.

 

[Padwolf]

I would never do anything with a guy who is drunk or tipsy. I rarely drink myself, and when I do drink, I only ever really get tipsy and I am always in control of myself and always am aware of what I am doing.

 

[Arawn.Chernobog]

Why would you want to have sex with someone that's clearly about to fall over due to alcohol consumption? Is anyone that desperate for a quick-one?

I mean, it's far more likely that the drunk will puke all over and let other bodily fluids flow (not the ones you want) during the act, it would be messy and frankly unpleasant.

Now I won 't jump in and say it's because "Oh no, taking advantage of a drunk is so cruel, poor drunkie", it's usually their damn fault if they drank too much and I feel no pity if someone drinks him/herself stupid and then promptly smashes his/her car into a brick-wall, and if they are being taken advantage of it's also partially their fault, like I stated above you'd have to be a really desperate bastard to do someone clearly drunk or incapacitated (and it's basically borderline rape) but it's also the drunk's fault for being a bloody idiot and getting themselves pissed in the first place.

There's nothing amusing or charming about being drunk or raping someone who is drunk, get that through your brainless heads you filthy mainstream teenagers.

Incapacitating = big no. But sorry, if a girl jumps a drunk guy, it's fine, if a guy jumps a drunk girl it's rape? That's just hypocrisy.

If you're worried you'll do something you don't like, don't fucking drink. Don't get me wrong, I'm not the type to get a girl drunk for sex, but for fuck's sake, take some responsibility on yourself, no one's shoving a bottle down your throat.

I drink relatively often and I'm perfectly capable of stopping way before I'd be willing to do something I'd otherwise be unwilling if I wasn't drunk. If you're worried you'll get that drunk, bring a friend along and ask her to keep you from doing something you wouldn't.

Mind you that I don't mean getting her drunk until she's sleeping, that's incapacitation. But if a person is drunk and someone asks them if they wanna have sex and they consent, that's not rape. Blaming alcohol? Don't get that drunk next time.

Pretty much.

 

[theevilsanta]

If I was wasted and she was wasted, I could happen. Heck, it has happened. While it can be pretty hot during, it feels terrible afterwards, especially since I always regret it. Thankfully I'm happily engaged now and don't put myself into that position anymore. Would I have sex with someone if she was wasted and I was sober? Generally no, but I have with my fiance and even that feels wrong.

Never with a passed out person, they aren't attractive to begin with. And of course never with a non-consenting individual.

I think Sky News kind is kind of misrepresenting this study though. For example, one quote is:

"46% of men aged 18 to 25 also do not consider it rape if the woman changes her mind during sex"

If I start having sex with someone consensually and halfway through she wants to stop, of course I'll stop immediately. But I wouldn't call that rape. The article is unclear.

And I don't know what "too drunk to know what's going on" means. In my experience you can be completely shit-faced, but you're still going to know that you're having sex - there's a difference between totally bombed and the soon-to-come passing out. Maybe it's referring to other drugs that leave you conscious but unable to comprehend that you are having sex. I don't get it.

 

[DazZ.]

I've drunkenly slept with people I otherwise wouldn't want to, it's not rape if you're stupid enough to get that drunk and make that decision. Granted they were likely equally as drunk, but even if they were sober it's not their fault.

You can't blame other people for you being an eejit.

 

[Hellz_Barz]

My rule is If they're drunk I won't try unless or until I'm equally drunk. Therefore if shes drunk to the point she past out chances are I'm passed out. In the chance we drinking so heavy shes passed out and I'm not, I probably wouldn't even touch her. Mostly because i have a massive fear I have for being falsely accused. I'd just drag her near her friends or something.

 

[SimuLord]

If they're drunk, they're generally far too unattractive in my eyes for me to even want to make the attempt. I prefer my women sober, clear of mind...and whispering the sorts of talk that you'd NEVER expect from the demure, cute, innocent-looking women I tend to date! True about the quiet ones.

But drunk chicks? Fuck and no. Sober up first.

 

[Brandon237]

Don't get drunk.
And taking advantage of someone who is is just wrong.

If a drunk girl, make that any girl other than my girlfriend (who would never get drunk)starts getting friendly, they get off. NAOW! There are very few people I want getting too close to me, and they aren't coming near if they are stoned either.

 

[Valksy]

I
I think Sky News kind is kind of misrepresenting this study though. For example, one quote is:

"46% of men aged 18 to 25 also do not consider it rape if the woman changes her mind during sex"

If I start having sex with someone consensually and halfway through she wants to stop, of course I'll stop immediately. But I wouldn't call that rape. The article is unclear.
.

The law in the UK is quite clear - consent can be withdrawn at any time, including during - and if that happens it is rape. 46% of the surveyed men are wrong and need to figure that out in a hurry.

Thee law requires a "reasonable" belief of consent. If the guy is sober but the girl is loaded then there is an argument that he does not have a reasonable belief. If both are drunk that argument becomes a little more difficult. In both cases it is down to what the jury would consider a reasonable belief.

In terms of a man being drunk and the woman raping him. Well, sadly, in the UK this does not lawfully constitute rape. Something that I don't agree with. The reasonable belief doctrine still applies.

 

[Wutaiflea]

Eh, one of the things about a guy who is too drunk... it is more than likely he will be unable to... maintain the...

And I do not allow myself to become drunk. So nothing bad can happen to me.

You see, this is particularly interesting to me.

I'm wondering why you're assuming that a guy would need to have an erection to be raped or sexually abused?
In a number of countries, any form of unsolicited penetration is considered rape. In the UK, oral rape is also considered a crime in its own right. Both of these offences wouldn't require an erection.

It's also interesting that you say "nothing bad can happen to me" if you're not drunk. Do you think maybe a woman who does get drunk is inviting trouble?

 

[Infernostrider]

i dont mind if a girl is a little drunk, but it depends...if she's my girlfriend, sure i'll still sleep with her
but assuming a new girl? no matter the circumstances, i'm a gentleman. i dont mind waiting, always got mrs hand to entertain me ^^

 

[Spygon]

As long as both party are happy at the time to have sex then i cant see its rape its not a person fault if your drunk and you jump on someone what do you expect the person to say no if there attractive to them.I have had girlfriends wander in from a night out after drinking slighty too many drinks and as soon as we are alone the first thing she wants to do is rip my clothes off.But the way i see it is if someone is so drunk they dont know what is going on around them or where they are so you have to push sex on them.Then yes this is taking advanatage and easily rape.

Also another simple rule if a girl says no it does not matter how far in you stop and back off there is no excuses for breaking that one.