Controversial Tropes vs. Women in Video Games Series Comes to an End

[Jamcie Kerbizz]

Kind of confused here. Why would you call her that? They both sought money on false premise anchored in computer gaming. Yes, one spun the scam via legal actions, the other via social media and crowdfunding but intent and targets were pretty much the same and not in any way hyperbolic. So what is your point again?

I am just curious, how is it a "false premise" to examine video games from a specific ideological position?

Further, as far as I can tell you have to go through some serious mental hurdles to equate "crowd funding to make youtube videos" with "suing major entertainment companies to stop them from making games".

Easy. It becomes false when you falsify examined subject to rig the outcome of your 'examination'.

On 2nd part I fully agree. Good I never drew such equation then. All 'serious mental hurdles' struggling to get through spared!

=D

 

[Trunkage]

So many gamers were so willing to throw every other male gamer under the bus that the voices of opposition were treated as the troublemakers when they weren't the ones who picked the damn fight in the first place and were indeed, on the defense.

Even in this thread, some posters feel the need to qualify their dislike of Anita by hating on other gamers. Keyboard warriors and childish neckbeards (gender specific) come to mind. Who knew gamers were so chivalrous, well I am sure Anita knew.

I found that hated her tried to prove her wrong so much that they were actually proving her right (I think I only saw the first one so this may be an exaggeration.) Both sides were too busy insulting each other rather than actually discussing anything. But then that epitomises the GG/anti-GG movements.

I wouldn't say they're qualifying their dislike of Anita, they just realise that keyboard warriors are just as bad as she is.

PS. if you think the first sentence is some sort of defence of Anita, its not. Its more a comment about her haters. Generally apathy is the best she can get from me. I don't care enough about her to hate her - you can only hate something if you actually care about it.

Her shit has been debunked over and over again, most if it is completely calm and rational too. Just go to YouTube and type in 'tropes vs women debunked' and pick a video or 5 to watch. Proved her right?? Holy shit that's funny. BTW, you too tend to judge actual gamers who stood up to her (you call them haters) harsher than you do her.

"
I wasn't talking about her videos. I'm talking about her opinions. She has opinions that go something like - gamers are entitled, belligerent, sexist a-holes." Most of the backlash against her proved her right (in her own head). She played us like a fiddle, she knew what we would react to and those reactions just reinforced her point. You know what that means. She politically more smarter than us. In her eyes, she won and got way more supporters than she would otherwise

Now you could say that her opinions of us don't matter, I'd point out Trump and Sanders as reasons why you shouldn't ignore people who have different ideals. You could be unexpectedly bitten by those you ignore

As to haters, sure that can be a pejorative term. Tell me what you'd like to call someone who hates someone else, I'll use that instead. If you've seen me on here, most of the time I advocate for, so let me know.

 

[Qizx]

I'm not sure why, but I feel like I want to say "Thanks Anita for getting trump elected," Not for nothing but I kind of feel like it's her fault.

Average Joe has probably never even heard of Anita or Gamergate, or any of that, so, no, you can't blame that on her.

Not saying I 100% agree with what the previous poster said but...
Trump got HUGE support from people who saw overzealous people like Anita screaming POLITICALLY INCORRECT MUH OPIONINS ARE HURT. It's to the point where even someone like myself rolls my eyes when I hear politically correct mumbojumbo. There most certainly is a line, and a lot of people by crossing it so much are pushing it back. When you say having a princess in a video game is victimizing women it makes these people who voted for trump ignore the REAL issues when women are being victimized.

Long story short, overreaction to perceived PC police cause people to flock to the super anti-PC guy.

 

[WeepingAngels]

So many gamers were so willing to throw every other male gamer under the bus that the voices of opposition were treated as the troublemakers when they weren't the ones who picked the damn fight in the first place and were indeed, on the defense.

Even in this thread, some posters feel the need to qualify their dislike of Anita by hating on other gamers. Keyboard warriors and childish neckbeards (gender specific) come to mind. Who knew gamers were so chivalrous, well I am sure Anita knew.

I found that hated her tried to prove her wrong so much that they were actually proving her right (I think I only saw the first one so this may be an exaggeration.) Both sides were too busy insulting each other rather than actually discussing anything. But then that epitomises the GG/anti-GG movements.

I wouldn't say they're qualifying their dislike of Anita, they just realise that keyboard warriors are just as bad as she is.

PS. if you think the first sentence is some sort of defence of Anita, its not. Its more a comment about her haters. Generally apathy is the best she can get from me. I don't care enough about her to hate her - you can only hate something if you actually care about it.

Her shit has been debunked over and over again, most if it is completely calm and rational too. Just go to YouTube and type in 'tropes vs women debunked' and pick a video or 5 to watch. Proved her right?? Holy shit that's funny. BTW, you too tend to judge actual gamers who stood up to her (you call them haters) harsher than you do her.

"
I wasn't talking about her videos. I'm talking about her opinions. She has opinions that go something like - gamers are entitled, belligerent, sexist a-holes." Most of the backlash against her proved her right (in her own head). She played us like a fiddle, she knew what we would react to and those reactions just reinforced her point. You know what that means. She politically more smarter than us. In her eyes, she won and got way more supporters than she would otherwise

Now you could say that her opinions of us don't matter, I'd point out Trump and Sanders as reasons why you shouldn't ignore people who have different ideals. You could be unexpectedly bitten by those you ignore

As to haters, sure that can be a pejorative term. Tell me what you'd like to call someone who hates someone else, I'll use that instead. If you've seen me on here, most of the time I advocate for, so let me know.

I agree with most of this but why do the 'haters' become the voice of gamers instead of those who gave rational rebuttals?

 

[Trunkage]

So many gamers were so willing to throw every other male gamer under the bus that the voices of opposition were treated as the troublemakers when they weren't the ones who picked the damn fight in the first place and were indeed, on the defense.

Even in this thread, some posters feel the need to qualify their dislike of Anita by hating on other gamers. Keyboard warriors and childish neckbeards (gender specific) come to mind. Who knew gamers were so chivalrous, well I am sure Anita knew.

I found that hated her tried to prove her wrong so much that they were actually proving her right (I think I only saw the first one so this may be an exaggeration.) Both sides were too busy insulting each other rather than actually discussing anything. But then that epitomises the GG/anti-GG movements.

I wouldn't say they're qualifying their dislike of Anita, they just realise that keyboard warriors are just as bad as she is.

PS. if you think the first sentence is some sort of defence of Anita, its not. Its more a comment about her haters. Generally apathy is the best she can get from me. I don't care enough about her to hate her - you can only hate something if you actually care about it.

Her shit has been debunked over and over again, most if it is completely calm and rational too. Just go to YouTube and type in 'tropes vs women debunked' and pick a video or 5 to watch. Proved her right?? Holy shit that's funny. BTW, you too tend to judge actual gamers who stood up to her (you call them haters) harsher than you do her.

"
I wasn't talking about her videos. I'm talking about her opinions. She has opinions that go something like - gamers are entitled, belligerent, sexist a-holes." Most of the backlash against her proved her right (in her own head). She played us like a fiddle, she knew what we would react to and those reactions just reinforced her point. You know what that means. She politically more smarter than us. In her eyes, she won and got way more supporters than she would otherwise

Now you could say that her opinions of us don't matter, I'd point out Trump and Sanders as reasons why you shouldn't ignore people who have different ideals. You could be unexpectedly bitten by those you ignore

As to haters, sure that can be a pejorative term. Tell me what you'd like to call someone who hates someone else, I'll use that instead. If you've seen me on here, most of the time I advocate for, so let me know.

I agree with most of this but why do the 'haters' become the voice of gamers instead of those who gave rational rebuttals?

It's only because they shout louder - rationale people tend not to shout. It also means that people tend to ignore them.

If you could solve this problem, most others would probably be resolved too.

I personally found a lot of people on both sides to be rationale. But then look at the Epyc Wynn situation and how one person aggravated large parts of the community

 

[Ninjamurai]

Snip

Exactly. One can only hope that Anita Sarkeesian is not the median average feminist. Equality should not be an 'Us vs. Them' & the idea of "Everything is racist, everything is sexist, everything is homophobic and you have to point it all out" is very unhealthy. Truth be told there are *plenty* of people on the opposite side of Anita who have a mirrored version of the whole "Everything is etc. etc. etc.." which is just as unhealthy. But if everyone could stop being so anal about every little thing in life then I think everyone would get along somewhat better.

That said, her videos were pretty silly. Despite their overall monotonous tone & often pointless meandering, a lot of the actual content almost comes off as some sort of parody. Add on top of that stolen gameplay footage, straight up lies, extremely timely upload schedule despite fairly short length... There's just too many negatives about her series to take it seriously. What I just said does not mean "Don't take women seriously" or "Don't take making gaming less toxic seriously" or anything like that. I mean that her videos don't offer anything substantive, and probably caused more harm than good. Yes, a lot of that harm came from her detractors, but that doesn't mean that her videos are any less bad.

If I remember correctly, so many of her videos focus on male sexuality & how almost everything about it is bad, but I rarely if ever heard her bring up female sexuality. She critiqued Doom 3 because of the Spider Queen demon, pretty much the only female enemy, and how it had boobs so therefor is objectification or some such. But wouldn't it have been great if she thought about how some of the male demons were actually kind of hot too? I mean, those Hell Knights have abs for days... Like some other commenters have said, her view is extremely narrow & seems to me the opposite of progressive.

 

[WeepingAngels]

So many gamers were so willing to throw every other male gamer under the bus that the voices of opposition were treated as the troublemakers when they weren't the ones who picked the damn fight in the first place and were indeed, on the defense.

Even in this thread, some posters feel the need to qualify their dislike of Anita by hating on other gamers. Keyboard warriors and childish neckbeards (gender specific) come to mind. Who knew gamers were so chivalrous, well I am sure Anita knew.

I found that hated her tried to prove her wrong so much that they were actually proving her right (I think I only saw the first one so this may be an exaggeration.) Both sides were too busy insulting each other rather than actually discussing anything. But then that epitomises the GG/anti-GG movements.

I wouldn't say they're qualifying their dislike of Anita, they just realise that keyboard warriors are just as bad as she is.

PS. if you think the first sentence is some sort of defence of Anita, its not. Its more a comment about her haters. Generally apathy is the best she can get from me. I don't care enough about her to hate her - you can only hate something if you actually care about it.

Her shit has been debunked over and over again, most if it is completely calm and rational too. Just go to YouTube and type in 'tropes vs women debunked' and pick a video or 5 to watch. Proved her right?? Holy shit that's funny. BTW, you too tend to judge actual gamers who stood up to her (you call them haters) harsher than you do her.

"
I wasn't talking about her videos. I'm talking about her opinions. She has opinions that go something like - gamers are entitled, belligerent, sexist a-holes." Most of the backlash against her proved her right (in her own head). She played us like a fiddle, she knew what we would react to and those reactions just reinforced her point. You know what that means. She politically more smarter than us. In her eyes, she won and got way more supporters than she would otherwise

Now you could say that her opinions of us don't matter, I'd point out Trump and Sanders as reasons why you shouldn't ignore people who have different ideals. You could be unexpectedly bitten by those you ignore

As to haters, sure that can be a pejorative term. Tell me what you'd like to call someone who hates someone else, I'll use that instead. If you've seen me on here, most of the time I advocate for, so let me know.

I agree with most of this but why do the 'haters' become the voice of gamers instead of those who gave rational rebuttals?

It's only because they shout louder - rationale people tend not to shout. It also means that people tend to ignore them.

If you could solve this problem, most others would probably be resolved too.

I personally found a lot of people on both sides to be rationale. But then look at the Epyc Wynn situation and how one person aggravated large parts of the community

You could choose not to attach 'haters' to the gamers side, that's a start and everyone did that, it would also be a finish. In other words, continuing to concentrate on the extremists instead of the rational people makes you part of the problem.

 

[RaikuFA]

snip

You know, my mom told me she was a lot like this when she was in college. She was one of those bra burning all men are scum feminists in the 70's. She sees herself in college in people like Anita. You want to know what she told me when I asked why she doesn't act like that anymore? "I grew up" was her response. We just have to wait for people like Anita and her friends to do just that. Same goes for the other side. Otherwise they'll get left behind while actual progressive people live without unessesary stress.

So many gamers were so willing to throw every other male gamer under the bus that the voices of opposition were treated as the troublemakers when they weren't the ones who picked the damn fight in the first place and were indeed, on the defense.

Even in this thread, some posters feel the need to qualify their dislike of Anita by hating on other gamers. Keyboard warriors and childish neckbeards (gender specific) come to mind. Who knew gamers were so chivalrous, well I am sure Anita knew.

We just need to step back and enjoy the games. We like.

 

[WeepingAngels]

snip

You know, my mom told me she was a lot like this when she was in college. She was one of those bra burning all men are scum feminists in the 70's. She sees herself in college in people like Anita. You want to know what she told me when I asked why she doesn't act like that anymore? "I grew up" was her response. We just have to wait for people like Anita and her friends to do just that. Same goes for the other side. Otherwise they'll get left behind while actual progressive people live without unessesary stress.

So many gamers were so willing to throw every other male gamer under the bus that the voices of opposition were treated as the troublemakers when they weren't the ones who picked the damn fight in the first place and were indeed, on the defense.

Even in this thread, some posters feel the need to qualify their dislike of Anita by hating on other gamers. Keyboard warriors and childish neckbeards (gender specific) come to mind. Who knew gamers were so chivalrous, well I am sure Anita knew.

We just need to step back and enjoy the games. We like.

People object to being called misogynists. Didn't Anita go talk to the UN and didn't she spend a little time working as a consultant for a game company? She wasn't just another ineffectual talking head. Ignoring her wouldn't have helped much since the gaming journalists were promoting her anyway while condemning gamers.

 

[Ninjamurai]

You could choose not to attach 'haters' to the gamers side...

I know that a lot of the people who are against Anita's videos are against them because they are bad videos that don't offer anything helpful to anyone (Yet somehow obtained large amounts of support from people who wouldn't even admit to the objectively bad things about them)... But when people try to make sides (Gamers vs. SJW's, non-SJW-gamers vs. SJW-Gamers, whatever), it just hurts everyone.

Please, and this applies to absolutely everyone, don't make 'sides' or groups like this. Don't lump in large amounts of people who are all extremely different into some arbitrary categories. It just makes everyone look childish & doesn't actually ever accomplish anything positive.

If you want to point out the flaws in something like a Fem. Frequency video, then please don't start saying "On behalf of all gamers I'm saying Anita is a meany head!" And the same applies to everything. It doesn't help anyone, and it only makes the people who actually are against you to be even more bigoted towards you or anyone slightly similar to you. While it seems easier to just lump in everyone you think you like into a group, and everyone you don't like into a group, all this will do is cause harm in the long run.

Overall, be yourself. Not a label, or as a sole spokesperson for an imaginary group, but you yourself. If you think that Anita's videos are the bees knees, then say why you like them from your own perspective, not because you are a Progressive?, Feminist?, Culture Geek?. If you think Anita's videos suck, then say why they suck from your own perspective, not because you are a Rationalist?, Skeptic?, Gamer? or whatever. And this obviously applies to much more in life than pointless internet videos & games arguments.

 

[WeepingAngels]

You could choose not to attach 'haters' to the gamers side...

I know that a lot of the people who are against Anita's videos are against them because they are bad videos that don't offer anything helpful to anyone (Yet somehow obtained large amounts of support from people who wouldn't even admit to the objectively bad things about them)... But when people try to make sides (Gamers vs. SJW's, non-SJW-gamers vs. SJW-Gamers, whatever), it just hurts everyone.

Please, and this applies to absolutely everyone, don't make 'sides' or groups like this. Don't lump in large amounts of people who are all extremely different into some arbitrary categories. It just makes everyone look childish & doesn't actually ever accomplish anything positive.

If you want to point out the flaws in something like a Fem. Frequency video, then please don't start saying "On behalf of all gamers I'm saying Anita is a meany head!" And the same applies to everything. It doesn't help anyone, and it only makes the people who actually are against you to be even more bigoted towards you or anyone slightly similar to you. While it seems easier to just lump in everyone you think you like into a group, and everyone you don't like into a group, all this will do is cause harm in the long run.

Overall, be yourself. Not a label, or as a sole spokesperson for an imaginary group, but you yourself. If you think that Anita's videos are the bees knees, then say why you like them from your own perspective, not because you are a Progressive?, Feminist?, Culture Geek?. If you think Anita's videos suck, then say why they suck from your own perspective, not because you are a Rationalist?, Skeptic?, Gamer? or whatever. And this obviously applies to much more in life than pointless internet videos & games arguments.

Sorry fella, sides do exist. Groups exist and people are cast into groups without their permission. For example right now it's popular to hate on white males, especially the heterosexual ones. If you are a person who fits into this group then you know that no one asked your permission before they proceeded to shit on the group and by extension, you. Now you can go to the highest mountain and proclaim that you don't want to be in this group or any other group but that will change nothing and in the minds of some, your skin color, gender and possibly your sexual preference will affect how others treat you through no fault of your own but through the talk of others whom you have no control over. Ignore them you say, how original.

 

[Ninjamurai]

Sorry fella, sides do exist...

Believe me dude, I know. Not all of what I said was even really directed at you, I agree with some of your opinions, and there's no need to get defensive with me.

As I said near the end of my long-winded rant, you can see that I don't exactly advocate for just ignoring everything. I said that you should go up against bull-crap, but do so as yourself & not as a member of some nebulous groups. This is obviously my opinion, and there can be occasions where grouping people would actually prove beneficial. But it's just my extremely inconsequential, unlikely opinion that if everyone didn't worry about groups like this that maybe things would be better. At least, better in some ways.

There are people on the left & right who are just complete arseholes, I know. In my opinion, the best way to deal with them is to be strong yourself, and to not have to rely on groups. Relying on groups opens you up to the negatives that might be in that group, and as such you would only be dragged down. It's not perfect in the slightest, but if people didn't rely so heavily on groups then maybe we wouldn't have as much of an issue like this in the first place.

 

[WeepingAngels]

Sorry fella, sides do exist...

Believe me dude, I know. Not all of what I said was even really directed at you, I agree with some of your opinions, and there's no need to get defensive with me.

As I said near the end of my long-winded rant, you can see that I don't exactly advocate for just ignoring everything. I said that you should go up against bull-crap, but do so as yourself & not as a member of some nebulous groups. This is obviously my opinion, and there can be occasions where grouping people would actually prove beneficial. But it's just my extremely inconsequential, unlikely opinion that if everyone didn't worry about groups like this that maybe things would be better. At least, better in some ways.

There are people on the left & right who are just complete arseholes, I know. In my opinion, the best way to deal with them is to be strong yourself, and to not have to rely on groups. Relying on groups opens you up to the negatives that might be in that group, and as such you would only be dragged down. It's not perfect in the slightest, but if people didn't rely so heavily on groups then maybe we wouldn't have as much of an issue like this in the first place.

Yes, I can agree with all of this.

Speaking as just myself. Wonder why no one mentions how men are portrayed in video games, as bullet sponges and generally disposable. The bad guy is almost always just that, the bad GUY. Would I rather be portrayed as a mass murderer or a Dude in Distress(TM)? Would I rather be portrayed as a fat, ungroomed potty mouth or a sex object? Would I rather be the one dimensional bullet sponge or the one protected by all the one dimensional bullet sponges? No brainers right?

 

[Necrozius]

While Sarkeesian may be done with the project, the production team Feminist Frequency has a new series planned that will use its "signature feminist media analysis" to "examine the connection between representations in pop culture and the racism, sexism, and transphobia of our current political climate."

Can people stop pretending she isn't courting controversy now?

Like if this last sentence doesn't convince you that she's just hitchhiking the controversial issue du jour to stir shit up every time it seems like the attention she gets has died down, what will?

I doubt she'll ever have success with any other project like she's had with her video games shtick, and thank Jimothy Sterling for that. The last thing America needs right now is more social turmoil.

It's opinions like this that make me not ever want to identify as a "gamer". What petulant bitterness.

 

[WeepingAngels]

While Sarkeesian may be done with the project, the production team Feminist Frequency has a new series planned that will use its "signature feminist media analysis" to "examine the connection between representations in pop culture and the racism, sexism, and transphobia of our current political climate."

Can people stop pretending she isn't courting controversy now?

Like if this last sentence doesn't convince you that she's just hitchhiking the controversial issue du jour to stir shit up every time it seems like the attention she gets has died down, what will?

I doubt she'll ever have success with any other project like she's had with her video games shtick, and thank Jimothy Sterling for that. The last thing America needs right now is more social turmoil.

It's opinions like this that make me not ever want to identify as a "gamer". What petulant bitterness.

She's an opportunist is an opinion that offends you to the core?

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

People object to being called misogynists. Didn't Anita go talk to the UN and didn't she spend a little time working as a consultant for a game company? She wasn't just another ineffectual talking head. Ignoring her wouldn't have helped much since the gaming journalists were promoting her anyway while condemning gamers.

She was invited to talk at the UN because of the harrassment she was receiving, not about video games. And she gave a talk at DICE years ago that stupid people turned into "working on Mirrors Edge 2". If folks had ignored her, she would've been "just another ineffectual talking head", her kickstarter would've succeeded at far less than $160k, and "gamers" wouldn't have a couple bomb threats marring their already questionable reputations.

Speaking as just myself. Wonder why no one mentions how men are portrayed in video games, as bullet sponges and generally disposable. The bad guy is almost always just that, the bad GUY. Would I rather be portrayed as a mass murderer or a Dude in Distress(TM)? Would I rather be portrayed as a fat, ungroomed potty mouth or a sex object? Would I rather be the one dimensional bullet sponge or the one protected by all the one dimensional bullet sponges? No brainers right?

Sounds like something that could be interesting to analyze. Maybe launch a different "Tropes vs Men" kickstarter.

I'd fund something like that as long as it wasn't going to be a series of videos whining about feminism.

 

[Basement Cat]

So we have legit Nazis, Alt Righters, people like Sargon, JonTron, and a whole slew of other hateful racists but everyone is going to make it a point to attack a woman who pointed out sexism exists?

This is why the video game community is a fucking pathetic joke.

Superb. Simply superb.

Welcome to The Escapist, by the way.

 

[WeepingAngels]

Speaking as just myself. Wonder why no one mentions how men are portrayed in video games, as bullet sponges and generally disposable. The bad guy is almost always just that, the bad GUY. Would I rather be portrayed as a mass murderer or a Dude in Distress(TM)? Would I rather be portrayed as a fat, ungroomed potty mouth or a sex object? Would I rather be the one dimensional bullet sponge or the one protected by all the one dimensional bullet sponges? No brainers right?

Sounds like something that could be interesting to analyze. Maybe launch a different "Tropes vs Men" kickstarter.

I'd fund something like that as long as it wasn't going to be a series of videos whining about feminism.

...or you could just give an opinion about it here.

 

[Saltyk]

Finally done? Only took her like 4 years longer than she originally suggested.

Anyway, I only ever watched two and a half of her videos. I honestly thought she had a couple of good points here and there. It was just too bad she didn't know what those points were and went off on unrelated tangents. I actually stopped in the third video when she was complaining about Double Dragon and it's "story". You know a game that is smaller than apps on your cell phone didn't have a nuanced story. Who woulda thought?

Otherwise, I've only heard things that made me quite happy that I didn't watch any further.

And the worst part is that I have since seen a series of videos that did what Anita claimed she was doing so much better. Another feminist who was actively involved in gaming media made her own videos specifically because she found Anita's videos so lacking. While I won't say that I agreed with her 100%, I at least enjoyed her videos. I'll be damned if I can remember who it was though. I watched those videos months ago on Youtube and I have no idea where they would be in my history. Nor did I like the videos (I very rarely like videos on Youtube) to find them on that much shorter list. It's really unfortunate as I would actually recommend those videos to anyone who had any interest in what Anita claimed to be providing.

 

[Ninjamurai]

Sounds like something that could be interesting to analyze. Maybe launch a different "Tropes vs Men" kickstarter. I'd fund something like that as long as it wasn't going to be a series of videos whining about feminism.

...or you could just give an opinion about it here.

They just did. "Sounds interesting..." and "I'd fund..." mean that they are positive & open about the idea that men don't have it quite as nice as a Feminist Frequency video might make you think.

I would tend to agree with this line of thinking, so long as it doesn't just become a pointless whine-fest like altnameJag said. Overall though I feel it's somewhat pointless, but only because of how I felt about Anita's video series to begin with; They're just video games, pixels on the screen made by other people. If we treat a handful of video-games like they are somehow single-handedly causing all sex/race/violence/etc. issues in the world... well, that would be dumb.