Cop Tasers Fleeing Handcuffed Girl, Head injuries put her in vegetative state

[Thaluikhain]

As mentioned, tasers are less-lethal weapons to be used instead of a firearm[footnote]I notice that two posters before me have mentioned that it was better he tasered her rather than shot her, which, while technically correct, is a bit worrying[/foonote].

You aren't supposed to use them except as a safer alternative to a bullet.

Yes, police will repeatedly tase people to stop them doing whatever it is they are doing, regardless of whether a bullet would be justified in that situation, but they are not supposed to. Even if you are calling them "non-lethal weapons", they are still weapons and should be treated accordingly.

 

[UsefulPlayer 1]

I really, really think the cop could have easily caught her if he wasn't rigger happy and reached for his weapon against an unarmed girl.

He was clearly able to catch her despite his fatass. Now he just ended her life.

 

[DoPo]

/snip

Oh come on, your argument was the he needed to tase her because she might have been faster at turning than he was (especially in the context of corridors).

They were outside when he tased her.

Not only that, you are doing the exact same thing you chastised others for. This makes you a hypocrite.

*facepalm*

Seriously people, what are you reading? I didn't say he needed to. I explicitly pointed out

I'm not defending the guy, whether tasing was needed or not I cannot say but saying "he could have totally caught her" or implying that he meant to put her in hospital is just wrong.

What I was saying, which is also clarified in that last paragraph is that it's wrong to make the assumption that he could have reached her or that he intended to harm her.

I probably had to stress a lot more on it but I was giving a counter possibility which people saying "he could have totally grabbed and restrained her" apparently didn't think about. No, I'm not saying what actually happened by using my awesome scrying-by-video powers, I was suggesting that other's scrying-by-video powers might be weak because they didn't see a pretty obvious other possibility and limited themselves to one.

And what the hell was that part?

she might have been faster at turning than he was

No, no, no - when you are about to turn a corner, you slow down (generally). And then when you make the turn, you speed up. I didn't say that she turned corners faster than him. Assuming they were in a building and assuming she just made a turn (reasonable assumptions, since they were in a building), since she is in front of him, she will speed up faster than the cop. Speaking from experience, when chasing somebody, you can get really close to them while they are turning but if you don't catch them, they will outrun you, while you're building up speed again.

But we can drop the corner example, because it was just an example, and still, it is perfectly reasonable that the cop might have not caught and grabbed the girl. Saying he totally could is simply not true.

 

[GoaThief]

But we can drop the corner example

I do love your vain attempts to wriggle yourself free, but yes we can. Addressing the previously posed firearm question would be nice, as that is the heart of the matter.

Is a police officer authorised to use lethal force in this specific situation?

 

[DoPo]

But we can drop the corner example

I do love your vain attempts to wriggle yourself free, but yes we can.

I do love how you basically made up words I said and don't mentioned it. I also agree to drop it.

Addressing the previously posed firearm question would be nice, as that is the heart of the matter.

Is a police officer authorised to use lethal force in this specific situation?

Now this I do not really know. I even tried to look for relevant procedures about (Florida) police and tasers and I only found this [www.law.stanford.edu/program/centers/scjc/library/tasers.pdf] (it's a PDF). It doesn't really apply to that particular cop. However, it does seriously implies that tasers are not "mostly harmless". Now, assuming proper procedures are followed, the taser is not that dangerous. On the other hand, as the document says, using of tasers is not regulated and this itself makes them far more deadly. In fact, the first of the recommendations is "The Use of Tasers by Police Officers should be limited to circumstances under which the use of lethal force would also be permitted." which sounds like a really, really good idea.

In fact, judging from that document there, the cop shouldn't have done it. Some posters say that the girl was on drugs (I couldn't find a confirmation) and if true, then that further meant that the cop shouldn't have tased her.

Strictly speaking about the law, maybe he was, authorised, or rather he wasn't prohibited to (there is a subtle difference). However, obviously, shooting electricity through somebody's body, thus causing pain and paralysis, is not "minimum force". It may be non-lethal but it's far from desirable and certainly it should not be common.

The girl is at fault too, but it's not totally her fault.

 

[deathninja]

So, LEO goes for less-lethal option, gets pilloried for it?

Even if you take a riot cop in his/her prime, a one on one subjugation doesn't end in hugs and puppies. Tasers have risks, but far less than a 9mm hole in your skull, I'd call it a reasonable call on a fleeing suspect.

Not that I would have liked her to faceplannt and all, but that's always a risk.

 

[ShindoL Shill]

It takes a special kind of stupid to run from the police AFTER you're already handcuffed.

What about the guy that drove the car away, crashed it into a pond and turned himself in two days later while handcuffed? (and considering that, maybe better ways of detaining criminals should be considered.)
not to mention she was arrested for hit-and-run's. obviously she is a fan of 'or flight', in the 'fight or flight' situations.

also,

defense attorney Kevin Haylsett, who put FHP on notice for a lawsuit said Cole violated FHP?s taser policy which states:

?Fleeing cannot be the sole reason for the deployment.?

?When you shoot someone in the back, and they?re running away, all that force ? as you saw when Danielle?s head hit the concrete ? that?s why they don?t allow you to do that, because you can have horrible tragedies like this,?

The police force is specifically told "don't just reach for the taser so you don't mentally disable people." (that's also why, when people do videos to demonstrate tasers, they have two massive guys pinning them upright).
No matter how you look at it, he was in the wrong. Don't say "but the police said he was right because of x, y and z." because of course they'd say that, otherwise they're making a pretty shitty defence for court.

 

[Lev The Red]

i agree that the taser was excessive. he should have just run after her and grabbed her arm. take his gun away and put the pudgy bastard behind a desk where be belongs.

that said, i don't feel bad for her. she was resisting arrest. i guarantee you that she'll never do it again. ZING! dark humor!

 

[BathorysGraveland]

Eh, I feel sorry for the girls' family and friends, but definitely not for her, not by a long shot. Why? It is impossible for me to respect and sympathise with someone so amazingly moronic as her. She brought it on herself as well, so it is difficult to feel sorry for her based on that alone.

On the side of the officer, a taser may have been a bit much. He may have been able to tackle her down or something, but ultimately, it isn't my place to say - he knows his job a lot better than I do.

 

[Jadak]

As tempting and as appropriate as it may be to bad mouth the cop for being fat stupid and lazy, can't say I feel particularly bad for the victim either. Running is a pretty good indication you did something wrong, particularly if you're already cuffed.

So if it came down to picking sides, stupid cop vs stupid criminal? I'll back the cop.

 

[Chevalier noir]

So, LEO goes for less-lethal option, gets pilloried for it?

Even if you take a riot cop in his/her prime, a one on one subjugation doesn't end in hugs and puppies. Tasers have risks, but far less than a 9mm hole in your skull, I'd call it a reasonable call on a fleeing suspect.

Not that I would have liked her to faceplannt and all, but that's always a risk.

"The taser was fine because the cop didn't shoot her."

This is full stop the dumbest thing getting repeated in this thread. Not only does it imply that what was done here was justified according to police code of conduct, the law or common sense but also that it was fine because its a step up from the worst possible response to this?

Again, the cop tasered a suspect and this is ok because he didn't kill her instead. Just...wow...are some of you aware that suspects are innocent until proven guilty? Or does this fantasy martial police state some of you occupy not work that way? Judge Dread would be proud of due process like that.

Police are trained to respond to situations with as little violence as possible. Pulling a taser on a cuffed fleeing suspect is a very big breach of his code of conduct. It was flat out the wrong thing to do. The first thing hammered into your head when taught about sidearms is when it is never ok to use them.

The proper response should have been to physically subdue the suspect. That is how they are trained, those are the rules. He broke them, end of story.

 

[Piorn]

I can't really see it properly in the video, but the policeman looks rather massive. Aren't policemen supposed to be physically fit, and able to catch and disarm a fleeing criminal? Shouldn't that be 90% of the reason they even exist? Just saying.

Also, accident's like this can happen, but both the girl and the policeman were kinda asking for trouble; she, by trying to run away with handcuffs, and the policeman, by using a weapon.

 

[freakymojo]

if they are actually instructed to not use tasers on cuffed or running targets theres not much to say, its not justified if not illegal.

 

[Chevalier noir]

if they are actually instructed to not use tasers on cuffed or running targets theres not much to say, its not justified if not illegal.

I just read the article too, this took place in Florida so I'm not surprised the cop cop cleared of wrongdoing in a state where its ok to shoot intruders.

I want to point out that the girl in question was allegedly involved in two hit and run cases. Until she is tried in a court of law, she is guilty of nothing. As far as the law is concerned, the cop tasered a 20 year old 100 pound girl who allegedly may have been involved in 2 hit and runs.

 

[RoBi3.0]

According to the link article. This woman was 20 years old. She should of been smart enough at 20 years of age not to run from the cops. End of story. I find it hard to summon up compassion for a person who runs after being arrested for suspected involvement in 2 hit and runs.

 

[7moreDead_v1legacy]

If she performed two hit'n'runs then this lass clearly has no regards for anyones state of health so why should we concern ourselves with her?

Imo she had it coming.

 

[WanderingFool]

Im sorry, but if the girl was running after being handcuffed, what happened afterwards is her own damn fault.

If you get arrested by the cops, you fucked up already, dont try to make it worse.

 

[RoBi3.0]

if they are actually instructed to not use tasers on cuffed or running targets theres not much to say, its not justified if not illegal.

I just read the article too, this took place in Florida so I'm not surprised the cop cop cleared of wrongdoing in a state where its ok to shoot intruders.

I want to point out that the girl in question was allegedly involved in two hit and run cases. Until she is tried in a court of law, she is guilty of nothing. As far as the law is concerned, the cop tasered a 20 year old 100 pound girl who allegedly may have been involved in 2 hit and runs.

They tasered a 20 year old girl who may have been involved in 2 hit and runs, but was DEFINITELY involved in an attempt to flee from arrest. Which by all account is stupid.

 

[joshuaayt]

I'm sure if he had given chase, and had been forced to tackle her to the ground, he'd be facing just as much fire for the injuries *that* would have caused.

"The attorney also pointed out that Maudsley only weighs about 100 pounds.

In the report, Cole said he chose to use the taser because he "felt she was more susceptible to being injured if he attempted to tackle her." Cole weighs approximately 267 pounds"

I can't really go purely on the words of the man himself, but that seems like pretty legitimate logic.

In other news:
"Girl"? She's 20. You don't refer to 20 year old males as "Boys". Well, at least not in news articles.