Could Racists become the new Nazis in video games?

[generals3]

I like fighting nazis. They had some of the most bad ass looking uniforms. Not every bad guy can say their uniforms were designed by Hugo Boss.

Actually just for that reason i wish we could play as them more often >< (yes i'm a sucker for bad ass looking uniforms)

Meanwhile what do "racists" have? White capes? Pfah.

 

[someonehairy-ish]

Generic brown hair male protagonist vs KKK?

I could go for that.

But if you showed me a Django Unchained kinda game I'd throw money at you. "It's like I'm murdering my sense of white guilt! Hooray!"

 

[Zeldias]

Not as long as white folks who fear confronting racial realities are in charge of making games. Racists in the current context would strictly be something like the KKK as opposed to the constant racism I face being stalked through department stores by suspicious white staff or having "friends" make black jokes at your expense or tons of white people constantly trying to act like "reverse" racism is a thing while having an absolute lack of understanding about systemic racism and the legacy of racism in the West.

 

[Mikeyfell]

Aren't Racists the main characters in most video games? *Obvious stab at Call of Duty and Uncharted is obvious*

Well on the subject of "Standard villain replacements" I was so excited to play the new Tomb Raider because Lara was going to kill a bunch of rapists, but then CD back pedaled and changed them to light hearted family friendly psychotic murderers... Seriously? Fuck.

But if you need something unambiguously evil to replace Nazzis: Racists, rapists, fans of Miracle of Sound, Cliff Bleszinski. They'll all do just fine.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

Aren't Racists the main characters in most video games? *Obvious stab at Call of Duty and Uncharted is obvious*

I just really don't understand the claim that Call of Duty and Uncharted are racist.

For fuck sake, the main villains in Call of Duty are the Russians, you know, the whitest people on the face of the planet. The villain controlling things behind the scenes? American!

What about Uncharted? The main villains from Uncharted 2 and 3 are Russian and British respectably. Not only that, but the games also have very positive characters who are none white. In Uncharted 2 you help to defend a Tibetan village from being destroyed. In Uncharted 3 a band of middle eastern rebels help you save your friend Sully.

These games are not racist just because some of the enemies happen to not be white.

 

[Wickatricka]

So are we just gonna have a bunch of white guys running around in games now? Here's a game think of a racist person in your mind. Okay got it? Now is that person white? I'm sure he is. Racism has been driven into peoples minds that only white people can be racist but I've met quite of few Mexicans who are racist and a lot of black people who are racist against white people. Is racism against white people taken seriously? No. I know we're probably the evilest motherfuckers who ever stepped foot on this planet if you look at history but its the twenty first century and if people want to be so goddamn politically correct all the time then we shouldn't have to take racism as some sort of payback for shit that happened 200 some odd years ago.

 

[Mikeyfell]

Aren't Racists the main characters in most video games? *Obvious stab at Call of Duty and Uncharted is obvious*

I just really don't understand the claim that Call of Duty and Uncharted are racist.

For fuck sake, the main villains in Call of Duty are the Russians, you know, the whitest people on the face of the planet. The villain controlling things behind the scenes? American!

Russians are still a race (Or a nationality, but that's all the same to a racist)
Yeah, Not to mention CoD is SO racist it can't even trust a minority to be the bad guy right. USA! USA!

What about Uncharted? The main villains from Uncharted 2 and 3 are Russian and British respectably. Not only that, but the games also have very positive characters who are none white.

Except that it always encourages Nate to kill them... (In the first one especially)
I haven't played an Uncharted game since they came out, but I remember them leaving a bad taste in my mouth... (Upon reflection it might have been more from Nathan Drake being a totally unlikeable douche instead of being a racist... But I don't remember)

 

[Lieju]

It's perfectly acceptable to hate both and represent both as cartoonishly evil. This is because the media, at least the really big ones like film and television, have always been about simplifying everything to appeal to the LCD.

There's also the fact that most people don't see themselves as racists, but are happy to call others racist if their racial views are challenged. For example, I remember some people calling those who voted for Obama racists, because they must have voted for him just because he is black. (Because there's no way a black man could have become a president otherwise)

Although that kind of attitude might be fair, especially if we're talking about a situation where the races are heavily segregated. I mean, if you treat someone with prejudice and hatred, it's pretty likely you'll get prejudice and hatred in return.

I never really liked the portrayal of every nazi being complete in line with Hitler and his beliefs. In fact, some of the soldiers fighting didn't care for Hitler, but rather saw it as their civic duty to defend enlist in their military.

Those people wouldn't have necessarily been Nazis either. Unless they were SS, or other part of the party.

I generally don't like games where I have to kill people, (if it's not cartoonish or presented with appropriate weight) especially if the enemies are soldiers and the game wants me to feel good about killing people who were victims of circumstance.

 

[veloper]

No, it's aliens and zombies.
Those baddies receive even less sympathy, so you can destroy them all without remorse and you can have alot of variety as a bonus.

 

[A Weakgeek]

But if you need something unambiguously evil to replace Nazzis: rapists

Now this guy has an idea. Seeing as rape is the oldest newest worst thing, someone should definately capitalize on that.

Perhaps a hitman style game the protagonist is a woman who goes around assasinating rapists, because the local law enforcement isn't strict enough. It would let everyone play out their revenge fantasies against rapists.

 

[Ranorak]

Does anyone here know of any other games that have you fighting racists? do you think it might, or at least should, become a more common thing?

Spoiler: Tales of symphonia, Not sure if they are spoilers. It's been a while but just in case

I believe the (half elf) Desians in Tales of Symphonia were racist against the humans. They even rounded them up in camps and did nasty stuff to them.

 

[Madman123456]

Not really. If the enemies are humans you are going to run into problems; unless they are brainwashed zombies which nazis basically where.
Our modern racists don't have decades of a barrier between them and "being human", one would have to draw an arbitrary line somewhere in between "just runs with those people because he's easily influenced" and "blood crazed idiot who actually isn't racist but just wants to see someone dead".
Drawing that line to segregate people into two groups, one of which can be murdered mercilessly until the game ends could be kinda problematic.
Some of the racists may have a backstory that would make killing them a bit iffy. There are some people who are basically bullied by People with different melanin levels in their skin, maybe for reasons unrelated to race and there's this racist group which might have some disagreeable goals but no one is an island and some disagreements are to be expected.

Some People might be wrong for thinking that but some people might not deserve bullets for that.

So just stick with old timey nazis. Not all of them where evil but they where basically brainwashed zombies.


And that might still be morally iffy in some cases. After a few years of brainwashing with a new medium brought to you by the technological wonders of your Führer (he may be a bit angry at times but he just got you a free radio and a neat book) you would be just as brainwashed.
You might not believe in everything goebbels spouted but you might come to the conclusion that while the nazi party might not be the best choice for the country you can't get a revolution going when the allied forces shoot everything to hell.
The economy being fucked over after WW1 was one of the reasons the nazi party got elected in the first place and if the allied forces shot everything to hell the nazi party's grip on what's left of the country might get even stronger.

So that would be a reason to don the uniform of the wehrmacht.
Another might be to not keep the allied forces from interfering with any revolution that might be coming but to start that revolution yourself.
Like one General Claus Philipp Maria Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg, who fought in ww1 and 2 and tried to kill Hitler with a bomb.

So not everyone who had that uniform deserved to die; so even nazi killing might get morally shady.

Maybe we should just kill some more zombies...

 

[Phrozenflame500]

Nah.

The thing about racism is that it brings up bad memories about slavery, which some places in America are still a bit defensive about. WWII propaganda did all the dehumanization needed to make the Nazis into faceless mooks, it will take a lot to make generic slave-Racist into them too.

 

[bartholen_v1legacy]

Not really. Nazis had a unifying ideology, symbology, an organization, a leader etc. Racists have none of those. You could make new bad guys for games by creating organizations whose ideology is fundamentally racist, but then it'd just be nazis with a different coat of paint.

 

[ASnogarD]

Bah, that word has become nothing more than a distraction card for some groups...

'Oh shit I am in a pickle, aaargh you are racist... ' ... and everyone focuses on racism instead of the issue that got the dude in a pickle.
Like how politicians love to use external issues to distract attention from their own issues.

It wouldnt work in games or any media as a Racist can be anyone, its not defined by colour or race but by individual opinion about another race or colour.
It is typically portrayed as white people beating down on the black man, but black people are equally racists... hell they judge each other based on how light the skin tone (lighter is better in that case), the Northern African races displaced and basically left the South African tribes out of the best spots, displacing the Hottentot and San (Bushmen) out of the better places and into the deserts.
In India they still have a caste system and woe betide you should you be born in the lower castes...

... basically I am saying you cant just slap some white folk beating down on black people into a game and tell players to remove the racist scum, that would be racist in itself if you think about it.
Its like saying all white people are racist, discriminating against white people.
Bioshock was targeting a racist era of North American history, not racists per se.

 

[Nieroshai]

It's perfectly acceptable to hate both and represent both as cartoonishly evil. This is because the media, at least the really big ones like film and television, have always been about simplifying everything to appeal to the LCD.

There's also the fact that most people don't see themselves as racists, but are happy to call others racist if their racial views are challenged. For example, I remember some people calling those who voted for Obama racists, because they must have voted for him just because he is black. (Because there's no way a black man could have become a president otherwise)

Although that kind of attitude might be fair, especially if we're talking about a situation where the races are heavily segregated. I mean, if you treat someone with prejudice and hatred, it's pretty likely you'll get prejudice and hatred in return.

I never really liked the portrayal of every nazi being complete in line with Hitler and his beliefs. In fact, some of the soldiers fighting didn't care for Hitler, but rather saw it as their civic duty to defend enlist in their military.

Those people wouldn't have necessarily been Nazis either. Unless they were SS, or other part of the party.

I generally don't like games where I have to kill people, (if it's not cartoonish or presented with appropriate weight) especially if the enemies are soldiers and the game wants me to feel good about killing people who were victims of circumstance.

Just for the sake of biting the worm, many prominent black Republicans voted for Obama and later went on the record saying they were ashamed for voting just to make history electing a black President. This could, of course, have blown up further in the minds of some and become a telephone game of rumor, but there is at least a grain of truth in that some African-Americans did vote due to color, mostly because they view themselves as oppressed.

To stay on topic, killing someone because of ideology is something a villain does, even if the ideology is "evil" itself. Killing to prevent even greater killing or else the deaths of those you care for is the path of a "hero." So no, I do not support a game where you kill racists. Doubly so when said racists are also made to be a cartoonishly villainous caricature of my own ideology. I do, however, support villains with nefarious schemes who ALSO have a prejudice as flavor. I have a similar gripe with Killzone. The ISA, who you played as, were the oppressors, the murderers. The Helghast were booted from their own rightfully owned planet, and when they gained the strength to take it back, the ISA invades Helghan too. But they must be the villains, they act like Nazis and look like skinheads and aren't quite "human."

 

[CloudAtlas]

But then, Bioshock Infinite got released and had to do something that I think is quite a rare thing you could do in games, instead of Nazis, the game has you fighting racists.

But either way, I felt genuine satisfaction with fighting racists in video games, yet aside from Bioshock Infinite, along Mass Effect 3 (with fighting Cerberus), and to certain extent the Dragon Age games, I don't think I've seen many games where you do battle with racists.

I think you've rather misunderstood Bioshock Infinite. You weren't fighting racists because they were racist, or anything like that. You aren't fighting the Columbians for any kind of justice, and even when you fight them to help the Vox, you're really only helping the Vox to further your own ends.

Halfway through the game you fight the Vox and you see them commit just as many atrocities as the Columbians did. The Vox kill unarmed civilians, scalp city officials, and generally just pillage and destroy and revel in their new-found power.

The funny thing is, most of the Colombians are just normal people. Sure, they're racist, but it's not like most of them are cartoonishly evil (though some of them are). When you walk around and just listen to people's conversations they aren't so much racist because they think that other races are inherently inferior, the people of Columbia are just afraid, and want their city to be peaceful and safe, whatever the cost, even if it means horribly subjugating everyone but themselves. They're racist out of fear, not hatred. So it's kind of messed up that the OP gets so much pleasure from killing them.

Now that I have finally finished Bioshock Infinite and can form an opinion of my own about it, I totally agree with your statement.
The notion that it's totally cool to mow down people who happen to represent a racist society and may or may not be racists themselves is a bit worrisome. Yea, embarking on a revenge fest is satisfying, but at some point should you realize that those folks you just shot were humans too.
Of course, the same is true for Nazis. Fighting Germany was the right thing to do, no question, but one of the hundreds of German soldiers you just shot could have been my grandfather.

 

[Playful Pony]

I would actually like to see a story-driven WW2 game from the eyes of a German for once to be honest. Should be a lot of interesting stuff to explore if you were just a regular Wermarcht soldier caught up in the ideologies of the Third Reich. The campaign would take you trough a series of uplifting victories in the early stages of the war, only to turn later on and end up as a series of defeats ending in a last desperate effort just outside Berlin. A lot of games, movies (even documentaries at times) and books tend to forget that the German soldiers are people too, and that for many of them it was the defense of the fatherland and forced duty, rather than Nazi ideology, that drove them.

The meat of the story and the moral choices involved would be for talented writers to work out, but I can imagine something like this really working rather well and be very interesting, perhaps in kind of a Spec Ops: The Line kind of way? I'm not tired of WW2 in games, I'm just a bit sick of seing the same battles from the same point of view every time.

I really don't think anything should become a common theme because then they become boring as shit, if you take theme X solely to fit into a market slot then you should not be designing anything, rather consider a career in accounting.

I agree with this. It worked reasonably well in Bioshock Infinite, but I don't imagine it would have been very interesting if every other game before it had the same kind of badguy.

 

[Lieju]

Just for the sake of biting the worm, many prominent black Republicans voted for Obama and later went on the record saying they were ashamed for voting just to make history electing a black President. This could, of course, have blown up further in the minds of some and become a telephone game of rumor, but there is at least a grain of truth in that some African-Americans did vote due to color, mostly because they view themselves as oppressed.

Certainly. Just like there were people who didn't vote for him just because he was black. But my point was that people usually like to present themselves as victims, and people who hold racist views like to blame others for being racist against them. Which might be the case. Especially if we're looking at some racial conflict where there are atrocities committed on both sides.