Could someone explain Wonder Woman?

[BrotherRool]

Hi, I really don't understand what Wonder Women is about. It's easy to understand Batman, he's about determination, dedicating everything you have to achieve above and beyond whats possible. Taking a stand against darkness, being the Dark Knight etc. There are lots of different interpretations and they're all really strong and give you an instant understanding of him.

And Superman is the same. Hope. Truth, Justice and the American Way. Being the perfect human and the one who has the physical and mental strength to be stay nice no matter how hard it gets.

But I can't think of anything for Wonder Women. I've watched the Justice League animated series and I couldn't get a strong idea of what she was about there (the times when she had the strongest personality was when she was flirting with Batman, which is I guess terrible when you think about it). I watched Linkara and Bob's detailed backstory and I still didn't take much away. I knew the facts but there still wasn't a theme. Linkara suggested 'truth' but I don't know how that works in a person and their activities in the same way 'hope' or 'determination' does. Truth seems to suggest almost a lawful stupid Paladin type deal? Or just generally doing good? Maybe a detective and a thinker?

So I'm lost. But I was wondering if you guys could help? What I want to know, is fundamentally whats Wonder Woman's core personality and what is she about?

 

[Little Woodsman]

Okay, being one of our ancient comic book geeks I'll take a stab at this.
Like most characters, she can be interpreted in different ways, what I have to say about her may not agree with everyone's take on the character.

She is a warrior who fights for peace. (Wrap your head around that.) She comes from a culture that admires and embraces certain aspects of the way of the Warrior (strength & fighting prowess) but eschews the use of violence in favor of more peaceful solutions. In her culture, every individual trains to be the best warrior they can, and trains to fight as a member of their military, but condemns the use of violence when there are more productive alternatives. Her official mission in "man's world" is to try to convince the world that the way of the Amazons is better, to help the leaders of the world (who are primarily men) understand that they should remain strong while actively pursuing peace. Some people see this as an aspect of feminism/femininity. (Note that I say 'some people', I believe that this is a fine philosophy, but not a particularly feminist/feminine one.)

She is a member of royalty, and has certain attitudes that are drawn from that. (Note in JL/JLU her insistence that the other cast members give Aquaman the respect he is due as a king.) She could be said to embody the Noblesse Oblige aspect of super-heroes.

She is also a representative of the mystical side of the DC universe. Though she does not directly use magic or spells her origins, weapons and armor are all magical. Once the decision was made by DC comics to say that all of these characters lived in the same world it created the mind-boggling paradigm of a world where science and mysticism *had* to live hand-in-hand, where mankind's fate was watched over by both great mystical beings like the Olympians and the old wizard Shazam and mighty ancient aliens like the guardians of Oa. With the other two members of the 'big three' in DC comics firmly rooted in the scientific side, she is a reminder that the mystical forces are still there and still active.

I hope this helps answer your question a little.
In all honesty I didn't think that JL/JLU did the best job with her, but I do love the subtle retcon of her origin that they worked in.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Well, she's been going for decades. Most of the time it seems, she's like Superman, only not a man. She hangs out with Batman and Superman and is important to other heroes.

This problem is cited as one of the reasons she doesn't have a movie, though they don't really make superheroine movies.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I'm afraid the way I've always seen her portrayed makes her essentially a gender swap of Superman with some Batman street-wisdom thrown for good measure. She was... well, I think she's just there as The Chick. Love her character and demeanor but as towards her GENESIS she was probably coined out of a necessity to cover the female demographic.

 

[Scarim Coral]

Moviebob had made a video about her-

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/2628-All-The-World-Is-Waiting

Other than that I'm not too sure to make her out what she suppose to be. I supposed she is like the mythological warrior side of the group.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I'm afraid the way I've always seen her portrayed makes her essentially a gender swap of Superman with some Batman street-wisdom thrown for good measure. She was... well, I think she's just there as The Chick. Love her character and demeanor but as towards her GENESIS she was probably coined out of a necessity to cover the female demographic.

Not quite. Her origins are a bit weirder than that.

Her creator (the guy who invented the polygraph test, as it happened), was a psychologist who wanted to create a female superheroine as an example to young girls, partly at the urging of both of his lovers.

He also thought it was a good thing for women to get tied up a lot, which is why that happened to her all the time, usually with her legs apart and something large and phallic flying at her.

 

[Vrex360]

Not much of a comic reader but from what I can gather, Wonder Woman is the essential female super hero, a badass warrior queen almost the equal to Superman and a deadly addition to the team but who also has a tender side and a compassionate side, as much an ambassador for peace as she was a bringer of death. She was also kind of a progressive women's rights sort of a character, who switches between extreme radfem to kind of just social progressive, her attitudes towards men tend to soften from 'outright hate' but she doesn't just become a giggly doormat either like many other female characters in her position might.

It is true that Wonder Woman's origin is not too widely known outside of the hardcore comic fandom, but to be fair the same could be said for Iron Man once upon a time and now everyone knows who he is. Wonder Woman done right could be fine, hell if you want my opinion the Wonder Woman animated feature made in 2008 is the perfect guideline to how to make a basic, easy to follow but action packed and engaging Wonder Woman movie.
It tells the origin of Wonder Woman, it sets up Ares as the villain, we meet Steve Trevor who is the love interest and in the end Wonder Woman abandons the world of the Amazons to serve as a superhero. You could set it in World War 2 or have be in modern times and it would be equally effective. You just need the hero, the villain and the dynamic between hero and boyfriend. Seriously just use that as a framework and make it into a ninety minute - two hour movie and bam! done.

I refuse to buy for even one second that Wonder Woman is a difficult property to get done, if Marvel is convinced it can make a marketable movie with a space raccoon with a laser gun then I think Warner Brothers could handle a *gasp* woman superhero. If they can just avoid what the other female super hero movies did which is throw out the script (Supergirl) or ignore all the previous character history and just make up a terrible new story (Catwoman) or just ignore plot and character entirely and just think sticking a starlet in a skimpy outfit would be good enough (Almost all of them).

All those other movies didn't fail because of a female lead, they failed BECAUSE NO ONE TRIED. And I can't speak for everyone but I'm really getting sick of 'I don't think it will work so I am literally going to put NO effort into this whatsoever. Oh look the thing I put NO effort into whatsoever failed, guess this proves it can't work. MAKE MOAR BATMANZ!!' being a viable excuse.
I am really annoyed that it has been seventy years and just as Warner Brothers is putting all the 'key players' together they decided the Flash should get billing over Wonder Woman (nothing against Flash by the way but I don't think he is as vital as she is). In my opinion it is an insult to the character, an insult to the female audience, insulting to the comics themselves and really insulting to the idea of actually trying to be creative and trying new things by being too terrified to actually break your comfort zone.

You aren't going to know something is doomed to fail if you never give it a chance and the shitty half assed 'stick Halle Berry in a leather bikini and that will get us money' model that female superheroes seem unable to get away from is not proof of anything.

... Sorry it's kind of easy to go on a tangent here.

 

[Thaluikhain]

if Marvel is convinced it can make a marketable movie with a space raccoon with a laser gun then I think Warner Brothers could handle a *gasp* woman superhero.

Heh, seen that argument a lot recently, nobody seems to have a decent counter.

I like how the people who made The Green Lantern are being paid to make an Aquaman movie. And yet no superheroine movies in sight.

 

[Lightknight]

Sure, Wonder Woman was originally the author's bondage hero. She is essentially a dominatrix by origin. That lasso of truth used to be the lasso of obedience, she'd reguarly get bound by men and things like that which is something she was specifically never supposed to have done. I think her first appearance has her breaking out of one of those leather masks with the zipper over the mouth. She's the empowered feminist archtype in a constant struggle against the evils of men. It's difficult to draw that fine line between equal rights feminist and "women are better and should rule the world and men everywhere should grovel at their feet" type but the authors' haven't always tried to walk that fine line so she's gone either way over her history (with superman teaching her the errors of her ways).

I actually find it hilarious that she's their big-name heroine. Marvel does a lot better with their female characters (Storm, Jean Grey/Pheonix, Rogue, Sue Storm, etc.). Shame DC hasn't hammered their own out yet. I can think of a few promising ones in their universe. But wonder woman is one of my least favorite characters. At least she graduated from JLA receptionist (which she was).

I think they could write a movie about her. But they'd need to shy away from the anti-man bit. It's practically like having a hero that's racist. But as a liason between the world of man and the amazonians it'd take some real rewriting.

I wonder who else would be better. Perhaps Jade, Zatanna, IoLande (or another female green lantern), Holly Granger, Nightstar, StarWoman, Hawkgirl or Power Woman (or any of the other Kryptonian females)? There's even Mary Marvel since they've shied away from Captain Marvel for some reason. Whoever pushed Wonderwoman as their head female character made a bad choice in my opinion. Too much baggage and pretty lame as a hero. Bracelets that block bullets (on a character who appears to be bullet proof anyways), an invisible plane (that apparently has something to do with mythology?), a lasso and boomerang tiara? Stupid stupid stupid. So many better choices.

I think she got popular because of the subject material she started in. People easily fetishized her as the dominatrix or immensely powerful woman that seems to always come under subjugation by males she fights. Her being the main heroine for that reason is actually surprisingly anti-feminist despite what people like to think of her as some kind of progressive character. Just sexualized and fetishized.

 

[Lightknight]

if Marvel is convinced it can make a marketable movie with a space raccoon with a laser gun then I think Warner Brothers could handle a *gasp* woman superhero.

Heh, seen that argument a lot recently, nobody seems to have a decent counter.

I like how the people who made The Green Lantern are being paid to make an Aquaman movie. And yet no superheroine movies in sight.

The target audience may not be there. I think they're unsure. A space raccoon with a laser gun is at least kid friendly and ripe with plushie opportunities. I say that without knowing what this space raccoon is though.

I think they'd do better with a different heroine. But in general, I don't know if men (the primary target market) would pay to see a heroine-based movie. Heroine-led superhero comics generally fail. So I think it's fair to see their hesitations as warranted. There is something in the general human pysche that laughs off the idea of a super-strong heroine. Right or not, that can translate into evena decent movie making a fraction of what a male-led movie would make. And they're in the business to make that money.

Right now, honestly, their best bet of a huge money maker would be Batgirl/woman.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I wonder who else would be better. Perhaps Jade, Zatanna, IoLande (or another female green lantern), Holly Granger, Nightstar, StarWoman, Hawkgirl or Power Woman (or any of the other Kryptonian females)? There's even Mary Marvel since they've shied away from Captain Marvel for some reason. Whoever pushed Wonderwoman as their head female character made a bad choice in my opinion. Too much baggage and pretty lame as a hero. Bracelets that block bullets (on a character who appears to be bullet proof anyways), an invisible plane (that apparently has something to do with mythology?), a lasso and boomerang tiara? Stupid stupid stupid. So many better choices.

I'd go for "Birds of Prey"...very close to Batman as well.

I think they'd do better with a different heroine. But in general, I don't know if men (the primary target market) would pay to see a heroine-based movie. Heroine-led superhero comics generally fail. So I think it's fair to see their hesitations as warranted. There is something in the general human pysche that laughs off the idea of a super-strong heroine. Right or not, that can translate into evena decent movie making a fraction of what a male-led movie would make. And they're in the business to make that money.

That's not really true, though. Birds of Prey, Batgirl etc have been very popular. There have been a number of female led action movies, Kill Bill, Aliens etc

OTOH, even if it's not true, apparently them with the power are convinced that it is, they are rather stuck in their ways despite everything.

 

[Little Woodsman]

In all honesty I didn't think that JL/JLU did the best job with her, but I do love the subtle retcon of her origin that they worked in.

A little bit off-topic and I apologize for that... but what subtle retcon of her origin was in JL/JLU? I don't know her comics version that well so...

Hee hee, I was hoping someone would ask about this....
Oh, and for those who don't know--Diana=Wonder Woman, Hippolyta=WW's mother, queen of the amazons.
Now Wonder Woman's original origin is that in an all female society, she is the daughter of the Queen. How does that work? Well in the original it stated that Hippolyta wanted a daughter, and sculpted an image of her ideal daughter in clay, and the gods of Olympus were pleased with her so they breathed life in to the statue she created, so Diana came to be.
In the JL/JLU of DCAU however, some things were let slip...

Spoiler: spoilers for JL/JLU

Okay so in JL it's revealed that at some point Hippolyta had an affair with Hades, god of the underworld. In one episode, Hades is trying to force his way out of the underworld. When it becomes apparent that he will not be able to, he shifts his focus to trying to drag Hippolyta down with him. In the battle, Diana shouts out "Mother!" to Hippolyta. Surprised, Hades asks Hippolyta "You had a daughter?" and his focus shifts on to trying to drag *both* Hippolyta & Diana back to the underworld with him...Hmmmmm....
Note that Hippolyta is blonde, Diana has pitch-black hair and Hades has pitch-black hair....
And Diana is much, *much* stronger than any other amazon....
In a later episode, Diana actually travels to the underworld and meets Hades, at which point Hades tell her "Your mother and I sculpted you together." Hmmmm......
Me, I'm betting that they did most of that "sculpting" in a horizontal position.
It's hinted that "I sculpted you out of clay." is kind of Hippolyta's version of "The stork brought you.", what's even funnier is that it's hinted that Diana actually never catches on, and still believes that her mother sculpted her out of clay! (In most other respects she's a very smart lady....)

 

[Little Woodsman]

All those other movies didn't fail because of a female lead, they failed BECAUSE NO ONE TRIED. And I can't speak for everyone but I'm really getting sick of 'I don't think it will work so I am literally going to put NO effort into this whatsoever. Oh look the thing I put NO effort into whatsoever failed, guess this proves it can't work. MAKE MOAR BATMANZ!!' being a viable excuse.

I am *SO* with you on this one. It's like how for years we were told that we could never get more Sailor Moon commercially in America because in it's initial broadcast run it was a commercial failure. Well duh, of course it was a failure in it's initial broadcast run, the best time slot it had anywhere was 6:30 AM! In many places it had 5 AM time slots, and in some places it was even on at 4 AM! When Cartoon Network put it on at a decent time, lo and behold it was very popular!
It really does seem like people in charge want properties that showcase superheroines to fail, and intentionally set them up for failure.

 

[Lightknight]

I wonder who else would be better. Perhaps Jade, Zatanna, IoLande (or another female green lantern), Holly Granger, Nightstar, StarWoman, Hawkgirl or Power Woman (or any of the other Kryptonian females)? There's even Mary Marvel since they've shied away from Captain Marvel for some reason. Whoever pushed Wonderwoman as their head female character made a bad choice in my opinion. Too much baggage and pretty lame as a hero. Bracelets that block bullets (on a character who appears to be bullet proof anyways), an invisible plane (that apparently has something to do with mythology?), a lasso and boomerang tiara? Stupid stupid stupid. So many better choices.

I'd go for "Birds of Prey"...very close to Batman as well.

I was more talking about a character to replace Wonderwoman as one of the triumverate (Superman, Batman, Wonderwoman) or perhaps to add to it as a more legitimate heroine than miss-dominatrix-all-men-are-evil-and-deserve-to-be-castrated. The team "Birds of Prey" does have some interesting heroines in it but I was trying to stay away from the sillier options. I mean, unless Big Barda and her Mega-Rod sounds like A-lister material to you. Black Canary's sonic abilities (screaming really loudly) may seem really nice, but it's her "expert motorcycle" ability that really sold me on her (joking, the only sonic hero I've ever taken seriously was the Black Bolt, but he's Marvel so...). I do think PowerGirl is an excellent option. She is kryptonian but has generally distanced herself from just being a female superman clone. However, the current trio has significantly different backgrounds and another kryptonian may damage that. Though people are clearly making Wonderwoman into a Superman clone more recently so that may not be a con.

I also think Barbara Gordon's Batgirl/Oracle needs some more attention but am in no way convinced that she can hold her own in a movie unless it's an Oracle orgin story that starts with Batgirl and ends with Oracle. She certainly can't be one of the paragons without altering her in a way that would make her cease to be Oracle as we know her.

That's not really true, though. Birds of Prey, Batgirl etc have been very popular. There have been a number of female led action movies, Kill Bill, Aliens etc

Actions movies =/= superheroes. A girl slicing through foes with a sword or one shooting aliens with guns is not the same as a girl punching a hole through a 275lb man's chest.

Listing a few successful heroine comics does not a trend make. Batgirl has its controversy and special interest backing up its sales and Birds of Prey is a team of women. While that may not sound like much, it is very difficult to pair female heroines with male heroes and make them look as impressive. I'm not saying that they're not, just that this is society's perception. Even in non-super power action films with movies, there is a disconnect when a 135 lb woman punches a 275 lb man through a wall.

The female led comics fail pretty badly on average. Do you know of recent popular superpower movies where the protagonist was female? Because I can name several superpower movies that did have that setup but failed at the boxoffice.

 

[James Joseph Emerald]

Admittedly I don't know much about Wonder Woman, but if I was rebooting her for The Justice League movie, I think I would make her quirky, eccentric and irreverent, a bit like Captain Jack Sparrow or Tony Stark. I think that would be an interesting take on the character, and would make a great foil for rebooted Batman and Superman's constant brooding.

If you think about it, all her signature stuff is pretty weird and quirky: invisible planes, lassos of truth, bullet-deflecting bracelets... even being an Amazon princess is kind of odd in the gritty world DC is trying to create. I don't think playing any of that straight is really an option at this point. So I would embrace her campiness and have her be the breakout comic relief character who gets all the memorable funny lines. The Tony Stark of the Justice League. Surely that'd be better than just being "The Chick", in any case.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

So I'm lost. But I was wondering if you guys could help? What I want to know, is fundamentally whats Wonder Woman's core personality and what is she about?

I had an answer, but Little Woodsman blew me out of the water. Read his post. Here's the link (even though it's the second post, so you almost certainly already read it).

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/18.828452.20160652

Seriously, he did an amazing job of answering your question. After that, I'd be ready to say /thread (but I didn't start it, so that's your call).

Also, the movie Bob video (linked previously in thread) has some interesting history on the character.

 

[Something Amyss]

WW has been written so many different ways it's hard to know where to begin. But then again, Batman was once written like the Adam West version, and people just latched on to one version, so why not here?

Sadly, she is frequently just written in to be "the chick."

Her creator (the guy who invented the polygraph test, as it happened), was a psychologist who wanted to create a female superheroine as an example to young girls, partly at the urging of both of his lovers.

He also thought it was a good thing for women to get tied up a lot, which is why that happened to her all the time, usually with her legs apart and something large and phallic flying at her.

His ideas were firmly entrenched his his concepts of gender roles, and I kept reading "loving submission" in his work and studies of his work, so it's no surprise.

But yes, weird.

 

[Lieju]

I'm afraid the way I've always seen her portrayed makes her essentially a gender swap of Superman with some Batman street-wisdom thrown for good measure.

I think she isn't just the Superman with boobs. (Keep in mind the interpretations of these characters differ.)

The difference between them is that Superman is American, or at least from the human world. He might have been born in outer space, but he grew up in Kansas, and he got his morals and culture from humans.

Wonder Woman is a more recent immigrant, she is an ambadassor, and comes from a culture that had no men and was magical science-based.