Could someone explain Wonder Woman?

[Lightknight]

Ah, fair enough. In that case it'd take yet another really major reboot.

They've got to reboot these until they get it right.

Was thinking more of a Batman style superhero, that's why I mentioned Birds of Prey. Of the original main three of Oracle, Black Canary and the Huntress, only Black Canary had a super power.

Oh, interesting. I wouldn't be opposed to it but if it's to replace Wonder Woman we'd do well to have a magic based heroine. I don't think it's an accident that the big three are so different with one being brawn, one being the mind, and the third being...? Emotion/magic/something like that.

I think I could be excited about a Mary Marvel or Zatanna reboot that makes sense. Probably a better name for Mary though. But a green lantern option wouldn't be bad either.

Hmmm...do the Underworld movies count?

Or failing that, anything with Milla Jovovich in it, it would seem. Scraping the barrel a bit there, but they still get made.

Eh, supernatural based (werewolf, vampire, etc.) really aren't what I'm thinking. But you seem to notice that too. I'd be willing to consider the resident evil movies despite the Zombie elements but I don't know how successful/mediocre the performance of those movies are.

On average though, women superheros do really poorly. Now, that's either because of an overall social understanding that women are weaker than men a scientific fact where averages and extremes are concerned with something like 40-50% less upper body strength and 20-30% less lower body strength in addition to weaker bones, angled pelvis that hinders movement and weight distribution, and smaller organs such as the heart or lungs, all for the sake of successfully bearing children and keeping mankind alive for another generation. Or, it's simply because of the target demographics that is still male dominated.

If you are a company with large gobs of money, you invest it as wisely as possible. That means not taking bets that have proven to fail before until proven otherwise. We've really got to stop assuming that there is a widespread demand for soemthing just because we want more equality in the media we're discussing.

 

[Thaluikhain]

They've got to reboot these until they get it right.

That could take a while, and alienate a lot of their existing fans.

I think I could be excited about a Mary Marvel or Zatanna reboot that makes sense. Probably a better name for Mary though. But a green lantern option wouldn't be bad either.

Zatanna, yeah, I'd like to see that.

If you are a company with large gobs of money, you invest it as wisely as possible. That means not taking bets that have proven to fail before until proven otherwise. We've really got to stop assuming that there is a widespread demand for soemthing just because we want more equality in the media we're discussing.

Sure...however, it seems people in power tend to let their own views on how the world works get in the way of this. If a movie about a black hero or a female hero fails, for example, it's said to because it was about a black hero or a female hero, for example, not something which would have caused another white male hero movie to fail.

 

[Lightknight]

Sure...however, it seems people in power tend to let their own views on how the world works get in the way of this. If a movie about a black hero or a female hero fails, for example, it's said to because it was about a black hero or a female hero, for example, not something which would have caused another white male hero movie to fail.

Right, but this is generally producers and directors covering their own asses. It's the modern "anyone but me is to blame" way of doing business.

Here's a question, and forgive me if you aren't well versed enough in film to answer, but can you think of any female led superhero films that should have succeeded but didn't? Ones that were actually good but just didn't generate enough interest?

 

[Thaluikhain]

Here's a question, and forgive me if you aren't well versed enough in film to answer, but can you think of any female led superhero films that should have succeeded but didn't? Ones that were actually good but just didn't generate enough interest?

I can only think of three female superhero films off the top of my head (without broadening the definition a lot), Supergirl, Elektra and Catwoman, and only seen the latter.

 

[Little Woodsman]

I know her as far as the New 52 goes, so not much. But... (SPOILERS ALL THE WAY)

Spoiler

She's the very last Amazon, so she was bred for battle, she's brutal and lives for the heat of the fight. She's also fair and just (in a Greek Amazon way). It seems one day a US Jet crashed on their island (prior to her being the last Amazon) and she came to know "our" world. After a while she began upholding our values, defending us etc.

She joins the Justice League (New 52) the way every other major member did: by meeting by accident when Darkseid tried to invade Earth. She learned a lot from Trevor (the pilot) and also from Superman, their condition as semi-gods and the fact that they are "last of their kind" brought them together as a romantic duo (like in the Frank Miller comics of The Dark Knight Returns, one of the big fears is: how powerful would their kid be?)

Spoiler: This is in response to the last line in the quoted spoiler box.

The question is not, "How powerful would their child be?" but rather "Why do two black-haired individuals have a red-haired child?"
(Cookie for the reference)

Eats the cookie before you take it away: why red hair (cookie pieces jumping out of my mouth)? Didn't she have blue hair or something? lol I actually didn't like that Frank Miller continuation to Dark Knight Returns

Overall I didn't really care for that Frank Miller continuation either (though it had a few good bits here and there), but the red-haired child reference is actually about an old anime movie.

Spoiler: spoilers for Project A-Ko

Throughout the whole movie you wonder why in the heck this girl has amazing super-powers, and then at the very end her father comes out from behind his newspaper for a moment and you can see he's supposed to be Clark Kent, at which point it becomes obvious from the glimpses you've seen of her throughout the movie that A-Ko's mother is Diana Prince.

 

[jamail77]

snip

[snip] I suppose if anything it's that the 'out of combat' contributions she makes to the team are much harder to spot, leaving the impression that she's not as active or 'out front' for the league as Supes, Bats, MM or even GL.
I also did have a hard time with her being

Spoiler: spoilers for JL Invasion

The one who would never forgive Hawkgirl. In a bitter bit of irony, like Hawkgirl WW also has an agenda of her own that she pursues (albeit more openly) and relays information about the JL & it's members/activities back to her homeland. While I can see her cultural background of intense loyalty to those who fight beside her being key to this attitude, she's also the one who's supposed to be trying to lead 'men's world' out of it's quagmire of endless recrimination and blame games.
OTOH, she's the one who pushes J'onn to go on his journey of self-discovery. Which was a great thing for him.

Spoiler: response to spoiler is also a spoiler

In the show, that wasn't her agenda though. In the very first episode Wonder Woman was drawn to the Imperium invasion partly because of the tragedy going on across the world and partly because J'onn J'onzz, or Martian Manhunter if you prefer, was sending subconscious telepathic messages for help to people like her. She stole her armor and ran away. Themyscira in the show was very isolationist; they didn't really want to help man's world and if they did and it wasn't explained well or shown then they didn't put much initiative, care, or forethought into it. That is why it was hidden from the rest of the world. I suppose they could have been waiting for the right time??? I don't know which of the various although fairly similar origins is canon in the comics, so I'm not sure if you're mixing up the show with the comics.

Even if that was part of the show's introduction of her she would still have done it openly rather than go behind their backs as you said. That's understandable from their point of view. Besides it was mostly to help Themyscira, at least in the show, than help man's world from what I could tell. They did want to talk to them and learn of them and from them, yet the one time we see Wonder Woman ambassadoring she talks about how global warming negatively affects Themyscira and how concerned Themyscira is and how her mother might consider military options.

Anyway, so that was never a reason to identify. I liked that someone never forgave Hawkgirl soon after; everyone was just sort of fine with it or at least openly fine with it (Except maybe The Vigilante as he never really described his frustration well during that mission with her and Vixen. That was hard to judge though and he joined the League when they expanded vs. being part of the founding members and after Hawkgirl had left and before she had joined again so that is more complicated). I couldn't tell if Wonder Woman forgave her or just learned to respect her more and move on after Felix Faust's return but I like to think she fully did after that even if really she just sort of did (I'll stick to my fantasy regardless haha). I would forgive her quickly too but it was nice to see someone who didn't in the type of show, in which it was likely everyone would.

I don't know about the "out of combat" stuff. When I think about it, it certainly seems she contributed less in that department, even if in reality she didn't and it was just harder to spot, than the other founding members except HawkGirl who really had the least contributions in that department. Does her part in that self discovery make up for her possible lack of non-combat contribution? I don't know.

Out of curiousity does anyone know if I formatted this correctly. I technically left out a reply from someone else in the quoted post but it was irrelevant to my response. I'm just curious if I followed "snip" etiquette here on The Escapist.

 

[Little Woodsman]

snip

[snip] I suppose if anything it's that the 'out of combat' contributions she makes to the team are much harder to spot, leaving the impression that she's not as active or 'out front' for the league as Supes, Bats, MM or even GL.
I also did have a hard time with her being

Spoiler: spoilers for JL Invasion

The one who would never forgive Hawkgirl. In a bitter bit of irony, like Hawkgirl WW also has an agenda of her own that she pursues (albeit more openly) and relays information about the JL & it's members/activities back to her homeland. While I can see her cultural background of intense loyalty to those who fight beside her being key to this attitude, she's also the one who's supposed to be trying to lead 'men's world' out of it's quagmire of endless recrimination and blame games.
OTOH, she's the one who pushes J'onn to go on his journey of self-discovery. Which was a great thing for him.

Spoiler: response to spoiler is also a spoiler

In the show, that wasn't her agenda though. In the very first episode Wonder Woman was drawn to the Imperium invasion partly because of the tragedy going on across the world and partly because J'onn J'onzz, or Martian Manhunter if you prefer, was sending subconscious telepathic messages for help to people like her. She stole her armor and ran away. Themyscira in the show was very isolationist; they didn't really want to help man's world and if they did and it wasn't explained well or shown then they didn't put much initiative, care, or forethought into it. That is why it was hidden from the rest of the world. I suppose they could have been waiting for the right time??? I don't know which of the various although fairly similar origins is canon in the comics, so I'm not sure if you're mixing up the show with the comics.

Even if that was part of the show's introduction of her she would still have done it openly rather than go behind their backs as you said. That's understandable from their point of view. Besides it was mostly to help Themyscira, at least in the show, than help man's world from what I could tell. They did want to talk to them and learn of them and from them, yet the one time we see Wonder Woman ambassadoring she talks about how global warming negatively affects Themyscira and how concerned Themyscira is and how her mother might consider military options.

Anyway, so that was never a reason to identify. I liked that someone never forgave Hawkgirl soon after; everyone was just sort of fine with it or at least openly fine with it (Except maybe The Vigilante as he never really described his frustration well during that mission with her and Vixen. That was hard to judge though and he joined the League when they expanded vs. being part of the founding members and after Hawkgirl had left and before she had joined again so that is more complicated). I couldn't tell if Wonder Woman forgave her or just learned to respect her more and move on after Felix Faust's return but I like to think she fully did after that even if really she just sort of did (I'll stick to my fantasy regardless haha). I would forgive her quickly too but it was nice to see someone who didn't in the type of show, in which it was likely everyone would.

I don't know about the "out of combat" stuff. When I think about it, it certainly seems she contributed less in that department, even if in reality she didn't and it was just harder to spot, than the other founding members except HawkGirl who really had the least contributions in that department. Does her part in that self discovery make up for her possible lack of non-combat contribution? I don't know.

Out of curiousity does anyone know if I formatted this correctly. I technically left out a reply from someone else in the quoted post but it was irrelevant to my response. I'm just curious if I followed "snip" etiquette here on The Escapist.

Oh, good catch. You are correct, I was mixing continuities in my head....(this is probably due at least in part to the fact that I saw the whole rest of the series(including JLU but excepting Invasion) before I saw Secret Origins, so in my mind I just kind of rolled with the idea that she had her old/standard origin.
I agree that it's appropriate to have a character in the group who forgives less easily, it just seemed 'off' to me that Wonder Woman was that individual. Though once again now that I think about it analytically rather than just going with what my impression was, there is no character in the group who would be better in that role. I guess that will happen when the whole group is comprised of heroes. (As for Vigilante and his outlook on the situation...when I referred to the group earlier I meant the original 7 members. I can fully imagine/appreciate that in the expanded roster of JLU there were several who harbored ill will towards Hawkgirl.)
(Okay, I'm incredibly out of whack due to a combination of benadryl to mitigate an allergic reaction and caffeine to keep the benadryl from knocking me unconscious...I just spent almost two minutes typing and retyping the word 'analytically' before I could get it right. So it's time for the Little Woodsman to say "Good night".)
Good Night!

 

[Milanezi]

Overall I didn't really care for that Frank Miller continuation either (though it had a few good bits here and there), but the red-haired child reference is actually about an old anime movie.

Spoiler: spoilers for Project A-Ko

Throughout the whole movie you wonder why in the heck this girl has amazing super-powers, and then at the very end her father comes out from behind his newspaper for a moment and you can see he's supposed to be Clark Kent, at which point it becomes obvious from the glimpses you've seen of her throughout the movie that A-Ko's mother is Diana Prince.

Thanks for the info, I had never heard of such an anime, I'll keep an eye out for it!

 

[Relish in Chaos]

I?ve always figured that Wonder Woman was both a female feminist power fantasy and a male dominatrix sexual fantasy; the obligatory, yet somewhat superfluous, ?token female? of the DC ?Big Three?. Granted, I don?t know much about her outside of MovieBob?s videos and some stuff I skimmed over on Wikipedia, but she doesn?t seem to be all that original character. Maybe in the 1940s, where there were hardly any powerful female protagonists in comic books, but not now. Especially when compared to numerous female characters that have followed her.