Could someone please explain to me what the hell is wrong with Nintendo?

[WeepingAngels]

A credit Nintendo rarely gets is their tendency to actually do new things. The Wii, the Wii U, and the Switch all have some gimmick to them rather than just being "upgraded" *debatably* versions of the last system. That is also why they tend to lack third party support, cause they either they make it exclusive to use the special features, or it is just a port, often a lesser one too. No one but Nintendo tends to be able to fully utilize Nintendo's console for the sake of the game.

Nintendo offers things no one else can or will, and for what flaws they have, I will continue to admire that aspect about them.

Thing is, I don't consider having a gimmick for the sake of having a gimmick to be an inherent plus. It depends on whether you consider these gimmicks added positively to the industry and, to be honest, I'd be hard pressed to say I think either motion controls or the second screen were really worth it. Interested to see how the whole handheld/console hybrid thing works out though.

The positive is Nintendo's willingness to try new things, to be creative. (Insert crack at Nintendo not being creative cause of repeating the same formulas) They may give us the same old constantly, but then they also give us new, sometimes completely new, sometimes old things in new ways. And their competition is not exactly being super creative and varied themselves.

I do think motion controls and the second screen were worth it. I hope with the Switch, they go further with it, since despite people focusing on the "handheld" aspect of it, it can do what the Wii and Wii U did still. The 3DS meets my handheld needs, and I dont think Nintendo really intends for the Switch to be as mobile as people keep touting.

Yep. Their creativity is great isn't it? I mean, the Wii U game pad was amazing and helped that system sell buckets, not to mention how AMAZING it was playing Starfox Zero on it amirite?

Lol, seriously though.

You make it easy to disregard your opinion on this.

Creativity doesn't really mean anything when it rarely, if ever, catches on. Motion controls failed, Wii U pad failed, Virtual boy failed and they've lost most of their third party trust. So it doesn't really benefit them, does it? Starfox Zero would've been great, but their creativity on how to play it made the game terrible and panned.

Motion controls failed? If only they showed up on the 3DS, Vita, Gamepad, Kinect, Move, PS4 Controller and the Switch has them too. No doubt I am leaving out many devices but I think I made my point. Motion controls have not failed.

Gamepad sadly failed to catch on and wish it had caught on. Since the DS, I have come to really enjoy the second screen. I can't speak about Virtual Boy, I know nothing about it at all.

The thing with the Kid Icarus game on the 3DS, the Starfox game on the Wii U and even Skyward Sword show the incompetent side of Nintendo that feels they need to force mediocre/bad controls on us to prove that their gimmick is great. It's only great when it is not when many people can't even play it properly.

Hardly any games are being made, if any, are being used with move, hardly anyone uses the kinect. The Switch I'm not sure about. They haven't replaced and nor will ever replace conventional controls.

Motion controls don't need to replace traditional controls to not have failed. Also, maybe very few games are being made that focus on motion controls but most devices have them available and that tells me that they haven't yet failed. In fact, motion controls are at their best being used in a support role like aiming in Zelda games.

Wii was a freak accident during a time right before mobile gaming took off and captured that market. You can clearly see that the Wii name meant nothing after the original Wii further proving that market was taken by mobile phones.

Wii Sports sold the Wii. Motion controls sold the Wii. It wasn't a freak accident, it was real people playing it at in store kiosks or at a friends house and enjoying it. Sadly, Wii Sports was about the best game for the casual crowd.

The Switch will end up becoming the Wii U version 2. It's hyped right now, but as time goes on third parties will abandon the system and the same thing that's happened for the past 4 generations will happen with Nintendo. Third place, like always. Their creativity doesn't do too much for them. They should just stick to their hand held devices and Pokemans.

The Switch is a handheld device. Everyone keeps telling me how the Switch is awesome primarily because they can play Zelda and Mario Kart on the go so in the minds of many Nintendo fans, the Switch only real value is that it's portable. Nevermind that most of those people will never take it out of their house, they could have done that with the Gamepad (and I do). Interestingly, it seems like many were unsatisfied with the last Pokemon games and I am not too confident in Game Freaks ability to make an HD Pokemon game.

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

The Switch is on it's hype train at the moment. The Wii U sold similarly in its first month as well. Third parties will drop the Switch and it will more than likely end up the same as the Wii U, or nearly the same more than likely. I doubt I'll be wrong.

Actually the Wii U's numbers were about half the Switch's current sales. Like I said elsewhere, it seems these kinds of threads pop up after A) Nintendo has a Direct (which they did recently) or B) has a hot release coming up (Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, which is coming out next week and is adding another GOTY 2017 candidate to Nintendo's roster). I am not sorry that Nintendo is the least drama-ridden, most competently run company in an industry going through its awkward puberty and that the Switch is the hot item at the moment.

 

[Silvanus]

You're pretty much wrong, friend.

A compelling argument-- I particularly enjoyed perusing the bibliography-- but I'm not quite convinced.

A product selling well is the direct result of people making the decision to buy that product. If those sales were not sustained over a long period, then you can make a case that that success was fleeting, or that the business model doesn't work over multiple generations for some reason. But it is, quite clearly, not an "accident", because Nintendo did not trip and accidentally design those motion controllers, and very few customers accidentally bought a Wii while they were meaning to only buy their groceries.

 

[WeepingAngels]

The Switch is on it's hype train at the moment. The Wii U sold similarly in its first month as well. Third parties will drop the Switch and it will more than likely end up the same as the Wii U, or nearly the same more than likely. I doubt I'll be wrong.

Actually the Wii U's numbers were about half the Switch's current sales. Like I said elsewhere, it seems these kinds of threads pop up after A) Nintendo has a Direct (which they did recently) or B) has a hot release coming up (Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, which is coming out next week and is adding another GOTY 2017 candidate to Nintendo's roster). I am not sorry that Nintendo is the least drama-ridden, most competently run company in an industry going through its awkward puberty and that the Switch is the hot item at the moment.

When Nintendo has a direct or has a big game coming people talk about Nintendo, no big shock there and some people may not be as positive as those on the juvenile hype train. We don't know if Switch will keep this momentum because the truth is that the lineup isn't all that great and it may be that those who bought one already are most of the people who ever will. How many new people will buy it for Mario or do those people already have one? Third party support has been teased so often on Nintendo consoles that we can't be sure until the games actually release. You know you'll get your promised first party games though, right? Even if they are pushed to the next console as well.

 

[WeepingAngels]

and very few customers accidentally bought a Wii while they were meaning to only buy their groceries.

I can see someone explaining that to their wife. 'Honey, I didn't realize I had this until I got home and was unloading the groceries. I even put it in the deep freeze at first until I realized what it was. Anyway, water under the bridge, want to play Wii Sports?'

 

[Wrex Brogan]

-watches the nintendo defense force rear up- Well, I'm just gonna... tip-toe around that particular shitstorm.

It's weird with Nintendo because it's just... on one hand, they always feel immensely arrogant with a lot of their business decisions, a kind of old-school arrogance born from being around since the fucking 1800s and being the company that pulled gaming back from the last crash; and yet, on the other hand, they feel like they're fucking terrified of taking risks, and have a weird tendency to play cards the rest of the industry already dealt five years ago as a result. With the former, you get shit like short-stocking their games/Amiibos, refusal to lower price on old games (Smash Bros for the Wii is still like, 100 bucks in Australia), charging high prices for 30-year old NES games and general 'go fuck yourself' attitude to handling their fans, but with the latter you get things like the slap-dash panic of shutting down the Wii U and rushing out of the Switch (I like the Switch but fuck me, was it rushed out), as well as introducing a shitty paid-for online subscription because 'everyone else is doing it'.

It gets frustrating because man, I love Nintendo consoles and games, been playing them for the last 25 years but fuck me does Nintendo not give a fuck about me.

 

[Wrex Brogan]

and very few customers accidentally bought a Wii while they were meaning to only buy their groceries.

I can see someone explaining that to their wife. 'Honey, I didn't realize I had this until I got home and was unloading the groceries. I even put it in the deep freeze at first until I realized what it was. Anyway, water under the bridge, want to play Wii Sports?'

You kid, but that's basically what happened in my house - there's 5 Wii consoles in the building but we only remember buying 2 of them. The others just kind of... accrued. Like we'd just come home from shopping and 'hey, is that another Wii? When? Where? Why? Ah well just put it in the kitchen I can play some Xenoblade while I'm making Spaghetti'.

 

[WeepingAngels]

-watches the nintendo defense force rear up- Well, I'm just gonna... tip-toe around that particular shitstorm.

It's weird with Nintendo because it's just... on one hand, they always feel immensely arrogant with a lot of their business decisions, a kind of old-school arrogance born from being around since the fucking 1800s and being the company that pulled gaming back from the last crash; and yet, on the other hand, they feel like they're fucking terrified of taking risks, and have a weird tendency to play cards the rest of the industry already dealt five years ago as a result. With the former, you get shit like short-stocking their games/Amiibos, refusal to lower price on old games (Smash Bros for the Wii is still like, 100 bucks in Australia), charging high prices for 30-year old NES games and general 'go fuck yourself' attitude to handling their fans, but with the latter you get things like the slap-dash panic of shutting down the Wii U and rushing out of the Switch (I like the Switch but fuck me, was it rushed out), as well as introducing a shitty paid-for online subscription because 'everyone else is doing it'.

It gets frustrating because man, I love Nintendo consoles and games, been playing them for the last 25 years but fuck me does Nintendo not give a fuck about me.

Good post. It's true that for all the fans who defend Nintendo, Nintendo doesn't give a fuck about it's fans. I accepted that Nintendo didn't expect the Wii to take off and that why there were supply issues but they have done that over and over again since the Wii and now I think they do it because they don't want to take a risk and manufacture too many. I remember the Wii U being sold out everywhere right after launch too. I have a bad taste in my mouth about how they dropped the Wii U and how they don't want to give current Mario Kart 8 owners a discount on the Switch port and also how they won't patch the battle mode for Wii U version. Nintendo used to be known for quality hardware (Nintendium) but I guess that's all changed now too.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

2) the Mini NES was never intended to be continously produced, duh

actually i was just chatting to mate this afternoon about the whole NES mini stock levels and my mate actually made a whole lot more sense to me about why the limited run stock levels of the NES Mini were so low.

My mate works in IT and according to him the biggest reason why the NES Mini had such low amounts of stock produced is actually because most of the components Nintendo uses to build NES Minis are old Nintendo Wii parts that have just been sitting in a warehouse in Japan somewhere and this is basically Nintendos way of getting rid of all those old Wii parts they still have in their Warehouse.

the NES Mini use's parts like the exact same controller connecters and ports that the Wii Motes and Wii Classic Controllers use. and because the Wii isn't in production anymore and hasn't been for quite awhile now, Nintendo would much rather use those parts to make a novelty product like NES Mini, that way they can sell and get rid of those old parts. there are taxes whenever you get rid of electrical parts as it's illegal to simply dump them and Nintendo would much rather use those parts to make a profit off of something rather than lose money on them through them.


so basically TL;DR Nintendo not only wanted to celebrate the NES anniversary but also to get rid of their old electrical parts that are still sitting in their warehouse rather than lose money on getting rid of the parts.

Heh. I guess if a strategy can work when they started out it can still work now eh?

 

[sageoftruth]

Breath of the Wild's critical and commercial success invalidates every argument against the Switch's existence.

What did the PS4 have at launch again? KNACK!!!! THE GREATEST GAM EVAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!


(The PS4s awesome now, I'm just saying that launch lineups mean basically nothing)

Yeah, I think I agree there. As someone who never buys anything at launch, I really couldn't care less what a console has at launch. Of course, the longer it continues to have nothing interesting the longer I'll wait to buy it. Anyway we all should really put that subject behind us in this thread. It seems to be a problems all consoles are dealing with, as you pointed out.

 

[Guffe]

I'll try and give my 2 cents here that no one cares about because it's page 3 or 4 at this time and I ain't gona quote nobody (so many gramatical errors right there!!)

1) The Switch is underpowered compared to home consoles yes, as a handheld though? real powerhouse!
I think this is were they did wrong, but they sort of had to market it as a homeconsole you can carry with you due to the 3DS.
But you should really see it as a handheld, which you can play on your TV with an adapter.
Worst line-up... well this is a matter of taste? Zelda the only AAA game in the lineup yes, so in that sense it is kind of weak, but they have given reasons like "releasing throughout the year" and the WiiU had liike 36 launchtitles or something and that console died out in 2 years or so and didn't want that to happen again. For me, Zelda and a few indie titles was enough to buy it, for some it wasn't. Doesn't really matter what the reasons are, some like it, some don't and some just don't care I guess.

2) For this one there are loads of rumours going around and I hava no idea what the truth is. From it always planned to be a limited console, they use the NES mini factories to produce more Switches to the fact that they use old parts from the Wii to make them and they have now used everything they had. All sound plausible to me.

3) Yeah this one is a bit weird innit?
The game should've been 10euros as it is an old game and has been at that price on other consoles for some while.

4) Deliberately understock the Switch?
This sounds just weird to me, I think they just didn't guess it would sell so much? I mean pretty quickly after all the pre-orderes and such could be made they had to start thinking about doubling production. Why would they even do that? They'd lose money on such a move wouldn't they? I just think they thought that it wouldn't sell as much as it did at launch, and thought that when more games had come out and it was time for Xmas that would be the main sellingtime for the Switch... I can not find one good reason why to deliberately produce too little of a product.

To end this up.
Am I a Nintendo fanboy? Yes...
but
There are problems with the Switch. I just think everyone is blowing it out of proportions. And I think that when the next PS and Xbox are released, people are going to whine about those consoles as much as they do Nintendo. Because people are never happy and everyones favorite thing always has to be best one on the market. But the fact that there are different companies competing is a good thing, that pushes everyone forward and try to outwit the competition which gives the consumers more goodies to play with

 

[WeepingAngels]

For me, Zelda and a few indie titles was enough to buy it, for some it wasn't.

It's so funny how many people bought a new console for a non exclusive game. You didn't need a Switch to play Zelda and I'll bet you didn't need one to play those indie games either. Try to imagine the impact on N64 sales if Super Mario 64 could be played just as well on the SNES.

4) Deliberately understock the Switch?
This sounds just weird to me, I think they just didn't guess it would sell so much? I mean pretty quickly after all the pre-orderes and such could be made they had to start thinking about doubling production. Why would they even do that? They'd lose money on such a move wouldn't they? I just think they thought that it wouldn't sell as much as it did at launch, and thought that when more games had come out and it was time for Xmas that would be the main sellingtime for the Switch... I can not find one good reason why to deliberately produce too little of a product.

They used this excuse for the Wii too. Failing to do market research is the same as deliberately underproducing. Same thing happened with the NES Mini and Amiibos, seeing a pattern yet? Nintendo plays it safe but that doesn't mean they get to pretend to be surprised everytime this happens.

 

[Randomosity]

For me, Zelda and a few indie titles was enough to buy it, for some it wasn't.

It's so funny how many people bought a new console for a non exclusive game. You didn't need a Switch to play Zelda and I'll bet you didn't need one to play those indie games either. Try to imagine the impact on N64 sales if Super Mario 64 could be played just as well on the SNES.

4) Deliberately understock the Switch?
This sounds just weird to me, I think they just didn't guess it would sell so much? I mean pretty quickly after all the pre-orderes and such could be made they had to start thinking about doubling production. Why would they even do that? They'd lose money on such a move wouldn't they? I just think they thought that it wouldn't sell as much as it did at launch, and thought that when more games had come out and it was time for Xmas that would be the main sellingtime for the Switch... I can not find one good reason why to deliberately produce too little of a product.

They used this excuse for the Wii too. Failing to do market research is the same as deliberately underproducing. Same thing happened with the NES Mini and Amiibos, seeing a pattern yet? Nintendo plays it safe but that doesn't mean they get to pretend to be surprised everytime this happens.

1. Not everyone owns a Wii U. There are plenty of people who look to the future to help determine what to buy. Sure, BotW can be played on the Wii U, but what if someone is also interested in Splatoon 2, or Xenoblade 2, or Super Mario Odysseus, or Fire Emblem Warriors. I mean, if Zelda is literally the only game you care about then the Switch is a dumb purchase, but if you want to play Zelda now, and you know full well you're going to buy other games later, then it really isn't a bad call in my opinion.

Not to mention the fact that the portability factor of the switch is a selling point for some. The Wii U simply can't do that. Being able to take Zelda on the go is not something to be overlooked, even if it is a feature that you personally may not use.

2. Actually, Nintendo deliberately went conservative with the Switch because of the Wii U, which had the wind taken out of its sails pretty quick. Their March release (generally a pretty mediocre month for games) and having planned for 2 million units in March meant they were testing the waters on this one. Notice how quickly they changed their production after launch.

When you have a product that is widely considered a flop like the Wii U was, as a business you tend to play things a bit more conservatively for the follow up product. Come holiday season 2017 we will get a better picture of the Switch, what it is all about, and what it is likely to do in the market.

 

[WeepingAngels]

1. Not everyone owns a Wii U. There are plenty of people who look to the future to help determine what to buy. Sure, BotW can be played on the Wii U, but what if someone is also interested in Splatoon 2, or Xenoblade 2

Let me stop you there, if they wanted Splatoon or Xenoblade (the sequels won't be that different) why don't they own a Wii U?

Not to mention the fact that the portability factor of the switch is a selling point for some. The Wii U simply can't do that. Being able to take Zelda on the go is not something to be overlooked, even if it is a feature that you personally may not use.

I do use that feature, on my 3DS and I would use it on the Switch too if I had one but most people don't and if they don't use it, it's dishonest for them to use portability as a justification for buying Switch.

2. Actually, Nintendo deliberately went conservative with the Switch because of the Wii U, which had the wind taken out of its sails pretty quick. Their March release (generally a pretty mediocre month for games) and having planned for 2 million units in March meant they were testing the waters on this one. Notice how quickly they changed their production after launch.

When you have a product that is widely considered a flop like the Wii U was, as a business you tend to play things a bit more conservatively for the follow up product. Come holiday season 2017 we will get a better picture of the Switch, what it is all about, and what it is likely to do in the market.

Maybe they should have done some market research instead of waiting to see if interest was there. Same thing with the NES Mini, they acted like they had no idea people wanted it, do they not even open their internet browsers? They made a choice to go conservative and that's on them.

 

[Randomosity]

1. Not everyone owns a Wii U. There are plenty of people who look to the future to help determine what to buy. Sure, BotW can be played on the Wii U, but what if someone is also interested in Splatoon 2, or Xenoblade 2

Let me stop you there, if they wanted Splatoon or Xenoblade (the sequels won't be that different) why don't they own a Wii U?

Not to mention the fact that the portability factor of the switch is a selling point for some. The Wii U simply can't do that. Being able to take Zelda on the go is not something to be overlooked, even if it is a feature that you personally may not use.

I do use that feature, on my 3DS and I would use it on the Switch too if I had one but most people don't and if they don't use it, it's dishonest for them to use portability as a justification for buying Switch.

2. Actually, Nintendo deliberately went conservative with the Switch because of the Wii U, which had the wind taken out of its sails pretty quick. Their March release (generally a pretty mediocre month for games) and having planned for 2 million units in March meant they were testing the waters on this one. Notice how quickly they changed their production after launch.

When you have a product that is widely considered a flop like the Wii U was, as a business you tend to play things a bit more conservatively for the follow up product. Come holiday season 2017 we will get a better picture of the Switch, what it is all about, and what it is likely to do in the market.

Maybe they should have done some market research instead of waiting to see if interest was there. Same thing with the NES Mini, they acted like they had no idea people wanted it, do they not even open their internet browsers? They made a choice to go conservative and that's on them.

Someone could have easily only played Chronicles on the Wii, or even the 3DS. Not to mention not everyone who buys a sequel is someone who played the first one. That is relatively common. It is one of the reasons why sequels tend to sell more units than the original. A bit of anecdotal evidence, but I've never played Assassin's Creed, but I bought and played Assassin's Creed 2. How many people who bought Fall Out 3 or Skyrim, but never played Morrowind, Oblivion, or Fall Out 1 and 2?

As for the portability, I said some people, as in not everyone. There are countless reasons people could have bought a Switch. Some like the portability factor. Other people just plainly like being early adopters of new tech, some people enjoy Nintendo games and know full well they are gonna buy all the first party exclusives anyway. What people ultimately choose to spend their discretionary income on is up to them. Whether or not the Switch is a good purchase is ultimately down to the consumer.

There really is no right answer here. Market Research is not some kind of magic bullet. Plenty of products have flopped even when Market Research was on their side. The simple fact is that Nintendo would prefer to have a conservative production run and sell out, rather than over-producing and having units sitting on a shelf. 2 million units sold in the first month is record breaking for Nintendo, so I can't really blame them on this one. I mean, outselling the Wii (launch sales) in not exactly what I'd consider to be reasonable expectations.

 

[Silvanus]

Yeah, you're still pretty much wrong, friend.

OK. Pray tell, where's the accident? Did Nintendo not mean to design the console that way? Did the consumers not intend to buy it when they bought it?

Who did what by accident?