Could the past and future be happening right now?

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CrystalShadow

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Apr 11, 2009
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Indeterminacy said:
CrystalShadow said:
That is really a question that's very difficult to answer. Since physics essentially says time doesn't really exist as we understand it (it's an artifact of how the mind works), there's a high chance it all exists at once.
Again, "At once" necessitates the existence of criteria for two events occurring "at the same time". It's crazy to think that everything that happened 10 seconds ago, now and 10 seconds in the future happen "at the same time", since the very conditions by which events are observed to occur "now, as opposed to 10 seconds ago" are what determine that they do not in fact happen "at once".
Linguistic pedantry really isn't helpful or meaningful.

It is almost impossible to accurately describe what this really means without such contrivances, because there is no way to talk about what I actually mean by that which avoids the problem you're trying to point out.

Consider a metaphor instead; The entirety of a film exists as a whole entity. A film has a beginning, middle and end, but a print of a film contains every single frame. Yet, the only way a human being can understand the film in a meaningful way is to watch it one frame at a time.

That one frame is analogous to 'now', yet the other frames in the film don't just cease to be. They're always there (well, so long as the film as a whole survives, but that's outside the realms of the metaphor.)

Taken as a whole, 'now', 'past', 'future', can be thought of as being a place instead of a time, ten years ago, or ten years from now is not really all that different from saying 10 km away from here...

'Now' is a reference point.

But saying every point in time exists at once doesn't mean what you are inferring it to mean with your pedantic use of language.

It doesn't explicitly mean 'at the same time', because it refers to a perspective on reality in which time doesn't exist in the way we perceive it.

Yet, as a metaphor it's perfectly valid because in geography, Paris and New York (for instance) both exist at the same time.

Similarly, what it means is that that all moments in time all exist. (in whatever structure you want to use to conceive of it.)

Two moments in time both exist. Since time is measured relative to these moments, you indeed cannot actually say they both exist 'at once', but for lack of adequate vocabulary (because thinking in a context where time is a static thing is very unusual), saying they both exist at once is the nearest description that meaningfully conveys even an approximation of the actual reality.
 

ReservoirAngel

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Nov 6, 2010
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I do believe that the past and the future exist in a 4th dimension every bit as real and concrete as our own.
 

Dense_Electric

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Bacaruda said:
Since time travel to the past is ludicrous; I find this topic quite amusing.
You know, a lot of things we take for granted today were once "impossible." Just because something is not possible with our current technology, or out current understanding of higher-level physics, does not make it "ludicrous."

@ OP - yes, I very much accept that theory. As per our current understanding of the universe, it seems to be the most likely scenario.

EDIT: To clarify, I refer to the theory that time is a dimensional parameter similar to space.
 

Salad Is Murder

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Indeterminacy said:
Innegativeion said:
Also, like my man Lewis Caroll, I hate imaginary numbers with a passion.
Pah. PAH, I say. The complex field is entirely well defined. Why are imaginary numbers any more problematic than real or rational numbers?
I think the fact that you're applying logic to things defined as irrational might not be helping your case.

Besides, Barbie had it right: "Math is hard!"
 

FFHAuthor

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Aug 1, 2010
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No.

Time is an illusion that is rationalized by the human construct of seconds, minutes, hours and such. A day is simply the rotation of the earth, dictated by astrophysics, turning the earth back does not turn back time. Aging is simple the multiplication and development of cells in a body dictated by biology, injecting new tissues into a body does not make you regress in age. Decay and fatigue is a reaction to physical processes, vacuum sealing a steak and freezing it does not remove it from 'the timeline'. Those things that we use to dictate time are at their core, merely a human rationalization of events that are shaped and controlled by natural processes.

Even our most accurate measures of time are measures of repetitive processes at the atomic level, not periods of time...it is a consistent action with a measure applied to it, no more, no less.
 

The Thinker

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Jan 22, 2011
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Dense_Electric said:
Bacaruda said:
Since time travel to the past is ludicrous; I find this topic quite amusing.
You know, a lot of things we take for granted today were once "impossible." Just because something is not possible with our current technology, or out current understanding of higher-level physics, does not make it "ludicrous."
Ah, but if time-travel (to the past) could happen, I would already be time-travelling, through the devious application of giving myself the machine I gave myself, after travelling around time for a bit.
 

DarkRyter

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Wait, what?

You got to stop doing drugs, man.

We care about you, and we don't want to see you go down this path.

Look at yourself. Look at what you have become.
 

Booze Zombie

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The past has happened and the future has been guided by it, but physically they do not exist. Instead, they are the human concept of how events happen. If we don't exist, time does not exist.
 

CrystalShadow

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Apr 11, 2009
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FFHAuthor said:
No.

Time is an illusion that is rationalized by the human construct of seconds, minutes, hours and such. A day is simply the rotation of the earth, dictated by astrophysics, turning the earth back does not turn back time. Aging is simple the multiplication and development of cells in a body dictated by biology, injecting new tissues into a body does not make you regress in age. Decay and fatigue is a reaction to physical processes, vacuum sealing a steak and freezing it does not remove it from 'the timeline'. Those things that we use to dictate time are at their core, merely a human rationalization of events that are shaped and controlled by natural processes.

Even our most accurate measures of time are measures of repetitive processes at the atomic level, not periods of time...it is a consistent action with a measure applied to it, no more, no less.
That's one way to describe the illusion involved, but measurement of 'repetitive' processes unfortunately requires time as a pre-condition.

Actually, a process, is by definition something that involves time as a concept. No time = no ability for anything to change.

Large chunks of physics are defined as something VS. time.

While time as we think of it might be an artificial construct, it's presence in most of the math involved leads to other problems.

The physics says time exists as some kind of parameter. Just as space does.

What fails to have any kind of explanation is the concepts of 'now', why time seems to flow rather than just exist as a whole, and why this 'flow' of time only goes in one direction when the mathematics involved works equally well going either way.

You give a heap of examples of being unable to remove things from the timeline, but completely fail to notice all the terminology you are using that is only meaningful in concert with our existing notions of time.

Rotation of the earth - rotation is only possible in terms of time.
Cellular multiplication - Again, time is a prerequisite, otherwise you simply have a fixed, unchanging state.
Decay & fatigue - depend on time, because without it there'd be no concept of anything being able to become something other than what it is
Reaction & action - again impossible without a concept of time.
Process - The very definition of a process requires time
Repetition - Repetition is only meaningful in relation to time. You can't repeat something unless it's happened before. And it can only have happened before if there is time.


So... All of these concepts you're using to say that time is a rationalization in and of themselves depend on time existing as a concept to have any meaning at all.

Time is one of the most nebulous concepts we have. It really is something that just is. All the definitions of time seem to be self-referential, which is a good indication that there is something very peculiar about it.
It may mean that time is something really important about the universe. But... On the other hand it may just be something hard-wired into the way our mind functions to the extent that trying to think your way around it is something the mind just isn't able to do.
 

The Thinker

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Booze Zombie said:
The past has happened and the future has been guided by it, but physically they do not exist. Instead, they are the human concept of how events happen. If we don't exist, time does not exist.
What's this about time not really existing when I'm not around? Do I have to do *everything* around here?
 

Robert Ewing

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Indeterminacy said:
Sean Hollyman said:
Imagine this: You go back a hundred years, and see a man riding a bike. Now when you go back to your own time, will that man still be riding his bike, but in his own time?

Same can be said of the future. You go into the future, and see a bird flying. When you go back to your present time, will that bird still be flying in it's own time? Or will it just cease?

Also, if you were to go to a diffirent point of time, what would happen to your current self? Would you just dissapear while you're gone, then come back? Would anyone notice your asbesnce?
I think the essence of your concern here is best addressed by the late, great, Douglas Adams:

The Hitchhikers said:
One of the major problems encountered in time travel not that of becoming your own mother or father. There is no problem involved in becoming your own mother or father that a broad-minded and well-adjusted family can?t cope with. There is no problem about changing the course of history- the course of history does not change because it all fits together like a jigsaw. All the important changes have happened before the things they were supposed to change and it all sorts itself out in the end.

The major problem is quite simply one of grammar, and the main work to consult in this matter is Dr Dan Streetmentioner's Time Traveller's Handbook of 1001 Tense Formations. It will tell you for instance how to describe something that was about to happen to you in the past before you avoided it by time-jumping forward two days in order to avoid it. The event will be described differently according to whether you are talking about it from the standpoint of your own natural time, from a time in the further future, or a time in the further past and is further complicated by the possibility of conducting conversations whilst you are actually travelling from one time to another with the intention of becoming your own father or mother.

Most readers get as far as the Future Semi-Conditionally Modified Subinverted Plagal Past Subjunctive Intentional before giving up: and in fact in later editions of the book all the pages beyond this point have been left blank to save on printing costs.

The Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy skips lightly over this tangle of academic abstraction, pausing only to note that the term "Future Perfect" has been abandoned since it was discovered not to be.
Basically, you're using grammatical tenses that assume you're in the present such as "still be riding" , but postulate their application across time frames. That's a category error.
Well shit, I was going to quote this.
 

Ian Soule

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May 4, 2010
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A very good read that touches on these topics is Slaughterhouse Five by Kurt Vonnegut Jr. It mentions time as the "fourth dimension" and explains that humans are the only people that see time in a linear manner. Other races (the in-book Tralfamadorians) see time from beginning to end all at once and can choose to focus on that one part. It's as if that pleasant thought you think of when shit gets bad becomes your reality. It's an interesting read (I'm not quite through with it) and can help explore the idea of time as a plate of spaghetti, but we only get through it one noodle at a time whereas others may take chunks out of it or even see it all at once.
 

Indeterminacy

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Salad Is Murder said:
Indeterminacy said:
Innegativeion said:
Also, like my man Lewis Caroll, I hate imaginary numbers with a passion.
Pah. PAH, I say. The complex field is entirely well defined. Why are imaginary numbers any more problematic than real or rational numbers?
I think the fact that you're applying logic to things defined as irrational might not be helping your case.

Besides, Barbie had it right: "Math is hard!"
Duly trolled. *Groan*