Could we not have the feminism debate this time?

[Matthew Jabour]

So, Shulk was announced for Smash Bros. recently. Also shown recently: Samus and Shulk's alternate costumes, which appear to be a training bra and swim trunks, respectively. Now, we could get into a big huffy debate about feminism, and objectification, and gender double standards. But I have a better idea: how about we not do that?

Every time we have one of these debates, the pro- and anti-feminist groups just shout at each other over and over until everyone hates both of them. But if, instead, we just let it slide, none of that has to happen. We can all laugh about the wacky alternate costumes, and everyone stays happy. Doesn't that sound great?

P.S. For the record, Shulk's costume actually is in the game. There's a whole line of swimming outfits for every party member, and they're actually quite high tier.

 

[Colour Scientist]

> Wants people to ignore something.

> Makes thread about it.

This seems to be a common tactic on The Escapist.

Spoiler

 

[Greg White]

People will complain about anything just for the sake of it. Something bothers them and they feel that since the internet gives them a mouthpiece they should take full advantage of it despite no one but them caring about whatever supposed injustice they seemed to have found.

That said, complaining about games putting more revealing costumes of characters, be they male or female, in a game as alternates/unlocks is like complaining that it gets cold in Germany during the winter.

 

[Wereduck]

> Wants people to ignore something.

> Makes thread about it.

This seems to be a common tactic on The Escapist.

Seriously Scientist?
He didn't say to ignore it, he suggested we'd all be a lot happier if we didn't have an objectification flame war. There's a lot of legitimate points to be made about messed-up gender roles in gaming but strawmanning someone who suggests we not immediately break out he pitchforks doesn't help.

 

[Erttheking]

Well, at least it's happening to both a men and women, so I can't really call it sexist. I might even say it's a step in the right direction.

I will admit to a level of frustration of the level of sexualization that's being thrown at Samus with the stupid high heels and now this being piled on top of it, but that's a personal gripe, so feel free to not take it seriously at all.

 

[NCR Ranger]

Asking people to use common sense and logic on the internet?
Yeah, good luck with that.

 

[Kopikatsu]

Where is the gender double standard? I just googled images of both of the alt costumes. If anything, Shulk's is more revealing than Samus'. So... yeah.

If you're going to have them be 'equal', then Samus has to go topless. This is the only path to true equality.

 

[Skatologist]

I think i have a quote to sum this up pretty well: ?Personally, I've come to the conclusion that rubbing my face in piles of broken glass is more insightful and productive than listening to what the internet has to say about gender politics.?-Anonymous. Yes, probably more insightful and productive, but definitely less cringe inducing.

 

[Matthew Jabour]

> Wants people to ignore something.

> Makes thread about it.

This seems to be a common tactic on The Escapist.

Spoiler

I didn't say 'ignore it', I said 'let's not get into an unproductive argument about it'. I suggested we look at the more comical aspects of it. I really hate it when people copy-paste the same snarky comeback onto every thread, whether or not it actually applies.

 

[barbzilla]

I agree with you OP, there hardly seems to be a point in it anymore since most people are securely settled on the side of the fence with no intention of actually conceeding any points to the other side. Once it hits this level of... well... trench warfare (for lack of a better way to word it), it becomes an argument more than a discussion. So, yes, I agree with you, I'd rather not have another argument about feminism, but until people get tired of arguing the same points over and over again in a never ending cycle (I.E. the Oroboros of Feminism in gaming), there will never be an end to those ridiculous threads.

 

[Colour Scientist]

> Wants people to ignore something.

> Makes thread about it.

This seems to be a common tactic on The Escapist.

Spoiler

I didn't say 'ignore it', I said 'let's not get into an unproductive argument about it'. I suggested we look at the more comical aspects of it. I really hate it when people copy-paste the same snarky comeback onto every thread, whether or not it actually applies.

You wanted comical, I made a joke.

It's not my fault that I'm the only one who finds me funny!

 

[Story]

I just really want to play the game at this point. More options are fine, if they bother people they can just choose not to use them.

 

[AkaDad]

Everything was fine until female gamers wanted the gaming industry to stop solely catering to white male gamers. If they would have just kept their opinions and concerns to themselves we wouldn't have these flame-wars and shouting matches.

Stupid feminists! Amirite?

 

[Ninjamedic]

It's not my fault that I'm the only one who finds me funny!

Well I laughed at the gif....

Funniest thing I've seen all day to be honest...

DON'T YOU JUDGE ME!

 

[Sea Sponge]

the pro- and anti-feminist groups just shout at each other over and over until everyone hates both of them.

That's about where I am.

Both sides piss me off because they are both as bad as each other. It's a damn shame they can;t see how bad they make themselves look to everyone else.

On topic however...

Yay, silly costumes.

Who doesn't like to do battle in swim wear?

 

[Sea Sponge]

Edit - damn double post

 

[Inglorious891]

Yeah, the whole "people fighting in swimsuits" thing is pretty silly, but the whole game is trying to be silly, so who cares?

Personally, I'm waiting for Mario and Bowser to have speedo costumes. Now that'd be funny.

 

[Artaneius]

The problem is that their never going to stop. Look at how much in real life they brought it up over and over and over until the change was forced. Same thing is going to happen here. Until someone with power in the AAA industry finally concedes and gives the feminists what they want they will never stop. It's like a culture no matter what it is can't make decisions of their own and have it stay that way. Because someone's feelings will be hurt otherwise. They have to sooner or later break down and obey because over time it becomes pointless to debate. Why debate with them if they're never going to take no for an answer? It's like dealing with children who never were raised properly. The entitlement of things being "fair" is kind of getting a little too far IMO.

It's not just affecting the feminist movement but everything else. Young workers think they deserve equal pay and benefits with their older counterparts, despite the older ones working for far longer and working for lesser wages back when they were young. Adults thinking they're entitled to their parents homes and other assets because they had to do chores and obey instructions as children. They see it as getting back what is owed to them, instead of as an learning experience. Gamers thinking that just because they spent money on a online game means they should be winning matches, or getting any kills at all without working for it by getting better at the game.

This entitlement that people have that they should be treated equally in all things is completely and utterly unrealistic. The world can't function that way. There always has to be losers in this world. Otherwise what would be the point of being a winner? Why would I bother working or doing anything in general if everyone else got the same rewards for doing nothing?

 

[K12]

As I always say when this comes up. Feminism is a general societal issue and not about specific representations.

A sexualised female character could be sexualised because it's part of that specific character's personality. It's the wider context that's important i.e. if you want to play a game as a woman who's interesting as something other than a prize then you don't have much choice. Feminism doesn't mean that every female character should be wearing a Burqa (definitely not!) just it'd be nice if their tits weren't always a defining characteristic.

This isn't that egregious really, and the inclusion of male eye-candy gives it a bit of balance so meh... Pick your battles. I think costumes in a fighting game aren't really the most important battleground for this kind of issue.