Could we not have the feminism debate this time?

[SeventhSigil]

the pro- and anti-feminist groups just shout at each other over and over until everyone hates both of them.

That's about where I am.

Both sides piss me off because they are both as bad as each other. It's a damn shame they can;t see how bad they make themselves look to everyone else.

On topic however...

Yay, silly costumes.

Who doesn't like to do battle in swim wear?

So much agreement... Lately, it's like having a U.N. Committee meeting discussing nuclear disarmament, which is a fairly complex and important subject for discourse, only the meeting hall is also populated by ten thousand howler monkeys. Sure, there are some sensible diplomats, vainly trying to read their prepared speeches to discuss the matter, but it's almost impossible to make it out over the screeching and flung shit. -_- What's admittedly pretty funny is both sides work hard to prove the other is loud/rude/hypocritical/stupid, but neither side realizes they're collectively proving BOTH sides are filled with all of those qualities.

Anyway, on topic, FEAR MY SWIMMING TRUNKS OF DOOM!

 

[debtcollector]

P.S. For the record, Shulk's costume actually is in the game. There's a whole line of swimming outfits for every party member, and they're actually quite high tier.

For one horrifying instant, I thought you meant swimming outfits for each Smash Bros. fighter, and then I imagined Wario in some incredibly curve-hugging one-piece. I'm disappointed that that's not the case.

But actually, between Mario's Uncle Sam look, and now these "summerwear" things, that's...only three. Are there any other alternate costumes revealed so far?

 

[Story]

But actually, between Mario's Uncle Sam look, and now these "summerwear" things, that's...only three. Are there any other alternate costumes revealed so far?

Sure, one I can think of off the top of my head is Little Mac's Wireframe

Spoiler

Oh and the Wii Fit trainer and Villager gender swaps. But I assume you already know about them.

Edit:
And here is a good one:
Skyward Sword Link

Spoiler

 

[nomotog_v1legacy]

Looks fine and I actually thought Samus's alternate costume was less problematic then the zero suit.

 

[Michel Henzel]

So long as the loud extremist minority on both sides keeps being the only thing everyone focuses on there will never be one, it will remain too toxic for it.

 

[AkaDad]

I remember years ago when people were saying "Would ya mind toning down the boobs a bit?" Then some gamers started freaking out, like they were having their games taken away from them.

They were the ones who made minor complaints into major issues.

 

[Vault101]

mabye if we didn't throw the F-word around like that...it freaks people out

 

[Something Amyss]

What if we don't find them funny? I know this is incredibly hard to believe, but not everyone find the same things funny. bring up The Big Bang Theory and see how that works. In fact, it's a decent example as you can watch the same people who are all "OMG feminists, take a joke!" turn around and cry "OMG this is the most offensive thing ever! Someone is misrepresenting me on TV!"

And personally, I find that hilarious, but I doubt many people will agree. I like a drier observational humour style.

I suppose one could consider this a minor case in point. I don't really care about the costumes in Smash Bros and probably wouldn't have paid any attention, but this thread comes up and has the vibe of "X angers me. Why can't you find X funny?" and now here I am, pointing out the subjectivity of humour and contributing to the potential evils of the thread.

You wanted comical, I made a joke.

It's not my fault that I'm the only one who finds me funny!

I thought it was funny! But then you end up with the problem that nobody cares what I think....

Of course, there's also the dangerous issue that bringing attention to something, and then saying "don't do X" is a good way to make sure people do the opposite, so you have a point as well. Even if Matthew didn't say "ignore," it's in the same field.

As I always say when this comes up. Feminism is a general societal issue and not about specific representations.

A sexualised female character could be sexualised because it's part of that specific character's personality. It's the wider context that's important i.e. if you want to play a game as a woman who's interesting as something other than a prize then you don't have much choice. Feminism doesn't mean that every female character should be wearing a Burqa (definitely not!) just it'd be nice if their tits weren't always a defining characteristic.

This isn't that egregious really, and the inclusion of male eye-candy gives it a bit of balance so meh... Pick your battles. I think costumes in a fighting game aren't really the most important battleground for this kind of issue.

Ah, but you see, you've still brought up that huffy "feminism" people are always talking about! Stop being part of the problem!!!!!!!

Yes, that was tongue in cheek.

 

[Something Amyss]

mabye if we didn't throw the F-word around like that...it freaks people out

Don't censor yourself. say "Fargo." Don't be ashamed.

 

[McMarbles]

Everything was fine until female gamers wanted the gaming industry to stop solely catering to white male gamers. If they would have just kept their opinions and concerns to themselves we wouldn't have these flame-wars and shouting matches.

Stupid feminists! Amirite?

Something something kitchen something something sandwich! Ha ha ha ha ha!

I say equal eye candy for all.

 

[Vault101]

Don't censor yourself. say "Fargo." Don't be ashamed.

yeah but.....the wood chipper

 

[Fenrys]

Random note about the Samus costume - it's not like this is the first time she's worn that. It's the same suit she wore in Fusion. Why is everyone complaining about it now? If you didn't like it, you should have complained in 2001.

 

[Something Amyss]

Don't censor yourself. say "Fargo." Don't be ashamed.

yeah but.....the wood chipper

Oh, you mean THAT Fargo. I thought you meant Douglas from Eureka!

....For shame.

Random note about the Samus costume - it's not like this is the first time she's worn that. It's the same suit she wore in Fusion. Why is everyone complaining about it now? If you didn't like it, you should have complained in 2001.

Wow, "why is everyone complaining now?" This whole thing is kind of astroturf-y. There's a thread made to tell people preemptively not to do it, and then all of a sudden "everyone's complaining."

Huh.


And no you've come along and added the pretense that people should have complained in the past, as though they didn't.

 

[Mikeyfell]

snip

This is a brilliant tactic. Under the guise of asking everyone to ignore something you are actually distracting them from it with the absurdity of shining a spotlight on the very thing you ask them to ignore.

Shifting your tactics to the topic of discussion of the thread.
Quintes Fabias Maxamis would be proud.

I don't think it worked though. A for effort.

 

[Erttheking]

The problem is that their never going to stop. Look at how much in real life they brought it up over and over and over until the change was forced. Same thing is going to happen here. Until someone with power in the AAA industry finally concedes and gives the feminists what they want they will never stop. It's like a culture no matter what it is can't make decisions of their own and have it stay that way. Because someone's feelings will be hurt otherwise. They have to sooner or later break down and obey because over time it becomes pointless to debate. Why debate with them if they're never going to take no for an answer? It's like dealing with children who never were raised properly. The entitlement of things being "fair" is kind of getting a little too far IMO.

It's not just affecting the feminist movement but everything else. Young workers think they deserve equal pay and benefits with their older counterparts, despite the older ones working for far longer and working for lesser wages back when they were young. Adults thinking they're entitled to their parents homes and other assets because they had to do chores and obey instructions as children. They see it as getting back what is owed to them, instead of as an learning experience. Gamers thinking that just because they spent money on a online game means they should be winning matches, or getting any kills at all without working for it by getting better at the game.

This entitlement that people have that they should be treated equally in all things is completely and utterly unrealistic. The world can't function that way. There always has to be losers in this world. Otherwise what would be the point of being a winner? Why would I bother working or doing anything in general if everyone else got the same rewards for doing nothing?

I'm pretty sure the OP said that stuff like this was exactly what he wanted to avoid. Could you please abide by his wishes?

 

[ThreeName]

> Wants people to ignore something.

> Makes thread about it.

This seems to be a common tactic on The Escapist.

I was going to write nearly exactly this!

>Makes thread with "feminism" in title
>Demands feminism not be discussed

Seems legit

 

[DrOswald]

So, Shulk was announced for Smash Bros. recently. Also shown recently: Samus and Shulk's alternate costumes, which appear to be a training bra and swim trunks, respectively. Now, we could get into a big huffy debate about feminism, and objectification, and gender double standards. But I have a better idea: how about we not do that?

Every time we have one of these debates, the pro- and anti-feminist groups just shout at each other over and over until everyone hates both of them. But if, instead, we just let it slide, none of that has to happen. We can all laugh about the wacky alternate costumes, and everyone stays happy. Doesn't that sound great?

P.S. For the record, Shulk's costume actually is in the game. There's a whole line of swimming outfits for every party member, and they're actually quite high tier.

Ok, I would like to discuss the costumes and not feminism/sexism/everyone hates everyone else right now, but you didn't do a great job of leaving any interesting hooks for me to work off of, so I am going to make my own:

What other smash characters should get a swimsuit looking costume?

I want Captain Falcon in a speedo. But he still wears the helmet and scarf.

 

[Cyrex10101]

But where's my battle armor Shulk alt costume and Phazon-Suit Samus?

Bras and shorts are boooooooooring.

 

[Matthew Jabour]

snip

This is a brilliant tactic. Under the guise of asking everyone to ignore something you are actually distracting them from it with the absurdity of shining a spotlight on the very thing you ask them to ignore.

Shifting your tactics to the topic of discussion of the thread.
Quintes Fabias Maxamis would be proud.

I don't think it worked though. A for effort.

Oh my god, did nobody read my post?

I did not ask us to ignore the topic, I just suggested we talk about a more lighthearted aspect of it. I just don't want this place to devolve into two sides spitting hatred at each other. Is that so wrong?

 

[Matthew Jabour]

> Wants people to ignore something.

> Makes thread about it.

This seems to be a common tactic on The Escapist.

Spoiler

I didn't say 'ignore it', I said 'let's not get into an unproductive argument about it'. I suggested we look at the more comical aspects of it. I really hate it when people copy-paste the same snarky comeback onto every thread, whether or not it actually applies.

You wanted comical, I made a joke.

It's not my fault that I'm the only one who finds me funny!

You misinterpreted my post and made baseless assumptions based on a warped perspective of what my intentions were. That, my friend, is entirely your fault.