Yes, before the post.
this post has become a lightning rod for attacks and personal comments, if you don't want to view it then don't it is an opinion expressed to answer a question and not a statement of fact
or an attack or judgmental ignorance as some have claimed, if you have a vested interest in this topic and are likely to be readily angered by such a post.
For me, there's a line and that line is self mutilation
this falls into that category, if he/she 'someone' is unstable enough that they cant become comfortable with who and what they are that's a massive turnoff to me i don't exist to fix someone else's sexual/social problems in a relationship
beauty is more than just skin, it comes from attitude and perspective as well and if the whole premise of your life is a lie you're either unhappy or capable of horrendous self delusion, neither of which are good
and that's a best case scenario, worst case is a poor op job and a terrible attitude
either way the answer's no and if a m>f trans somehow managed to trick me into dating them they'd be sued to the end of the earth when i found they were lying about everything ( honey, i'm infertile ) oh, really. 'posts skin cells to lab'
hmm, seems like you're a Pathological liar
lying and self loathing are very good reasons to want to end a relationship, or simply not begin one
I tried to avoid it (mostly because I've been sick and didn't want to bother), but this thread now occupies more than a full page of my inbox, so it's time for some commentary. Caller Number One, you're live!
Beautiful Tragedy said:
[
LMAO Ya I wouldn't announce it "Hi, I'm Melanie- trans-girl supreme."
Yeah, I wouldn't either. But it amuses me. In part because I've lived with the whole "rubbing it in our faces" thing for so long (regarding both gender ID AND sexuality), so I amuse myself by picturing living up to those extremes.
mike1921 said:
Thank you. Amazing what you can do with only a high school knowledge of genetics.
It actually frightens me a little that the bar's so low. People just say "it's science" without even that high school knowledge, or with disregard to it.
Which is one of my big headaches in this thread.
Fiz_The_Toaster said:
So, I guess what I'm trying to say is that if I were to date someone then, yes, I do consider dating all guys. I really don't know how else to explain that other than it's just not my thing.
Read what I said. It had nothing to do with romance. In the spirit of answering my question, do you think you could re-read it and, you know, answer it?
I tried to avoid it (mostly because I've been sick and didn't want to bother), but this thread now occupies more than a full page of my inbox, so it's time for some commentary. Caller Number One, you're live!
Beautiful Tragedy said:
[
LMAO Ya I wouldn't announce it "Hi, I'm Melanie- trans-girl supreme."
Yeah, I wouldn't either. But it amuses me. In part because I've lived with the whole "rubbing it in our faces" thing for so long (regarding both gender ID AND sexuality), so I amuse myself by picturing living up to those extremes.
mike1921 said:
Thank you. Amazing what you can do with only a high school knowledge of genetics.
It actually frightens me a little that the bar's so low. People just say "it's science" without even that high school knowledge, or with disregard to it.
Which is one of my big headaches in this thread.
Fiz_The_Toaster said:
So, I guess what I'm trying to say is that if I were to date someone then, yes, I do consider dating all guys. I really don't know how else to explain that other than it's just not my thing.
Read what I said. It had nothing to do with romance. In the spirit of answering my question, do you think you could re-read it and, you know, answer it?
You aren't seeing what I was saying there. I'm saying that I would date because my only reason to date anyone would be to have children, so yes, I would screen their child bearing capabilities because that's the only reason I'd be fucking them to begin with.
Citation needed? Seriously, based on what? Have you had sex with a lot of transsexuals?
BloatedGuppy said:
I could just as easily ask you not to climb up on your cross if I point out you are being needlessly combative. fears and loathes transsexuals with distressing regularity, you are probably gonna have a bad time. This is what I am saying.
Okay, serious question, then. What of the women, born women, who are chromosomaly XY?
The unfortunate thing for your argument is that gender is not wrapped up in the nice neat package that the argument would purport. XY women walk among us. They never have to change their name or birth certificate, they can menstruate and carry children, they can be biological mothers and the whole nine.
Not really true. Pheromones make it such that you can generally tell at a base level what chromosomes someone has, and this will color their sexual attractiveness to you on a subconscious level accordingly. You may not agree with the use of the term "fetish" to describe someone who does not detect or interpret pheromones the way most people do, but it's sounds appropriate to me. Unless there are transgender surgeries that I'm not aware of that include pheromone-producing organs, it is absolutely the case that to find a transgendered person attractive for a heterosexual is an abnormality, or at least an oddity, or an unlikely occurrence.
Incidentally, hormones influence pheromones, so even on a superficial level that was a fail.
omicron1 said:
There is most certainly a medical definition of a woman that suits his criteria. Put simply, either "One with XX chromosomes" or "One with a uterus" will work. Obviously there are exceptions, but it stands to reason that he would be equally unhappy with any such exception.
Excep they don't work on a medical level. Again, saying "science!" doesn't make something scientific. I can say that the earth is flat, but adding "science" doesn't make it more valid just because.
Both viewpoints are equally valid until proven otherwise.
That's the same specious reasoning behind the "Glen Beck can't prove he didn't rape and murder a 9 year old girl" or whatever the accusation was.
You can call it intolerance all you want, but making untennable claims and backing it up with "it's equally valid" doesn't make it so. And how dare you be so intolerant as to dismiss the flat earth hypothesis!
You aren't seeing what I was saying there. I'm saying that I would date because my only reason to date anyone would be to have children, so yes, I would screen their child bearing capabilities because that's the only reason I'd be fucking them to begin with.
The main reason for that might be the fact that you have both misused words (in this case, you used would where I'm almost positive you meant wouldn't) and tack on extraneous statements that seem to contradict your core statement. By way of another example, this:
I would if I gave a shit about dating/romance/etc, yes.
I've been avoiding posting in this thread due to the amount of bullshit and bile being thrown around but sorry, really...
The Lugz said:
For me, there's a line and that line is self mutilation
this falls into that category, if he/she 'someone' is unstable enough that they cant become comfortable with who and what they are that's a massive turnoff to me i don't exist to fix someone else's sexual/social problems
...So a person born with a facial disfigurement or some other defect that causes them distress that can be treated by surgery, skin grafts or whatever are they deemed 'unstable' if they wanted to go through with the procedure?
The Lugz said:
in a relationship
beauty is more than just skin, it comes from attitude and perspective aswel and if the whole premise of your life is a lie you're either unhappy or capable of horrendous self delusion, neither of which are good
Yeah beauty is more than skin deep, but step into our shoes and see how much of a positive attitude/perspective towards our futures needed to even begin to transition in a world of such narrow mindedness. It takes a lot of mental fortitude to go through all of this, and even then it is a struggle but we push on...Unfortunately a lot do not feel such positivity and sadly take their own lives/suffer internally through out life, to which my heart goes out to them and their families.
My/Our life is not a lie, I am/We are being true to myself/ourselves.
Speaking for myself I am not deluded I know that come what may I will never be 100% what I should be but I can damn well do my best to get there.
The Lugz said:
and that's a best case scenario, worst case is a poor op job and a terrible attitude
See above about the attitude and have a look on google at a majority of ops - FtM ops have a bit of harder time as it's easier to dig a hole (As they say) =(.
The Lugz said:
either way the answer's no and if a m>f trans somehow managed to trick me into dating them they'd be sued to the end of the earth when i found they were lying about everything ( honey, i'm infertile ) oh, really. 'posts skin cells to lab'
hmm, seems like you're a Pathological liar
Again I am sorry but "tricking" you...Yeah, really we're all out to ruin your life by tricking you into feeling attracted to us. Because last time I checked when a person goes out on a date/have sex it's a mutual thing, so if you went on a date how is that a fucking trick?!
You want us to walk around with bloody name tags saying something along the lines of "Hi, I am xxx I am xtx." Get real, it's not like we're carrying a disease that you can catch or anything like hep or crabs (so on and so forth)...Which surly has to be a bigger problem than what used to be between the legs.
Suing? What for? Not telling you the full service history before you stuck your junk between their legs, which I can almost hazard a guess you'd enjoy (Because hey, you know I got one). Plus if you had gotten her that far into bed I am damn sure you'd be too caught up in the moment to notice anything.
It's almost akin to suing because the woman you want to bang photoshopped her facebook photo or that your girlfriend took off all her make up and has a blemish the size of Luxembourg on her face...It's just ludicrous to even say something that like that ._.
Please don't get me started on the infertile/kids shit...Adopt is all I shall say at this point.
The Lugz said:
lying and self loathing are very good reasons to want to end a relationship, or simply not begin one
Yes lying is bad, selfloathing on the other hand is something that people can help others out with with just even a slight bit of empathy...These traits can be applied to anyone, everywhere - Regardless of Gender/Sexuality.
BiscuitTrouser said:
afroebob said:
This is a picture of Kim Petras, a 20 year old girl from Germany. Also, shes also a transsexual. Also, I would tear that shit up any day of the fucking week. Seriously, just ask and I'll buy a fucking plane ticket to Germany just to tap that, I couldn't give anything resembling the essence of a fuck about what body you were born in.
This whole topic makes me uncomfortable and to be honest im confused as to my opinion on it.
Because youre right. She is attractive. Super attractive. I cant deny that when i look at her i see a female. My brain says female and my respect for trans peoples rights says female and my gut says female. It all says female. I mean fuck i know id have sex with a hot alien woman. Thats technically freaking bestiality. Why is this "Worse" in the back of my mind?
And yet part of me feels uncomfortable with the idea. Ive dated girls that, in the past, have been people i wouldnt be attracted to but are now. Is this that different? Is it wrong to still feel weird about it? I cant think of any rational logical or sound reason to be against it that doesnt sound bigoted. And im not. I dont want to be. I wouldnt treat a trans person ANY different except when it came to sex and relationships. For some reason that makes me feel like a dick. Its cognitive dissonance and i dont like it. I cant think of any non flimsy reason why i should care. It all comes back to "It feels gay" or "Kids" and i dont honestly believe either of those reasons are good. I dont give a fuck about kids or "seeming" gay because those things dont matter to me. I dunno. I need to think about it.
If more people could approach matters like this be it about gender, race, creed etc The world would be lot happier I feel - It's honest and isn't trying to hide behind a stonewall of intolerance and appears open to change (Much respect ^^) I also possibly worded all that wrong as my head is in rant mode xD
I know what I meant to ask you yesterday (bloody ageing memory, aint what it used to be).
Could you send me the link for the book type thing you wrote. I lost the link and wanted to buy it. I say lost, my bookmarks kinda vanished for reasons unknown to me (funnily enough, the same day my daughter used my computer) and when I went to look for it I couldn't find the bugger.
if other people's perspective hurts you i sugguest avoiding it
i'm not trying to tell you how to live your life i was answering a question on a forum about a hypothetical situation that is highly unlikely to come to pass
my answer is no, for me it is valid so you cant change my mind and calling it bullshit
only invites argument on a topic that clearly bothers you and that cant be good for you
if other people's perspective hurts you i sugguest avoiding it
i'm not trying to tell you how to live your life i was answering a question on a forum about a hypothetical situation that is highly unlikely to come to pass
my answer is no, for me it is valid so you cant change my mind and calling it bullshit
only invites argument on a topic that clearly bothers you and that cant be good for you
Hurt? No, takes a lot more than ignorance to hurt me, annoyed yes. I was under no impression that it would get you to change your mind, it was an exercise in highlighting absurdity.
You know, this thread seems a lot more civil than the previous ones. The ones that wasn't as much of a flame-war as they were cyber-armageddon. XD
But I should probably post something myself. I get the Idea that we are not "pure" when it comes to gender/sex, and in a way I can agree. But from my perspective we never were. Viewing gender dysphoria as a neurological intersexual syndrome is the only way I've been able to make sense of it. Especially considering that it can't be "cured" and everything points to it being inborn.
Would I date one? Ofc, I keep the same standard for everyone regardless of sex/gender/subculture. Currently it's the category "heterosexual males" that never seems to live up to it. So shy and prudish, not to mention boring looks and one-track minds. XD Hm, could be the whole being bisexual and preffering adrogynous people. Normal guys don't stand a chance in that field. A cute trap on the other hand... :3
I wouldn't have a problem with it, my only worry would be that I'd be in this relationship out of some sense of fetishism, as I'm quite into shemale porn and the like already. Also the type of guys I like are girly/androgynous, so I really wouldn't have a problem with the logistics, for lack of a better word.
For that reason I would probably prefer it if he or she only told me about it after we had been dating for a few months already. Just so I'd know I was into them as a person first.
The most honest answer I can give is I don't know and part of that uncertainty would be the social stigma involved, I know it's small and cowardly of me but I couldn't deal with everyone whispering about it behind my back. I'm quite weak like that, and it makes me feel bad to say it but it's true, I care far to much about what the crowd thinks.
But rather a full 'the person went under the knife and had a bridge built or a hole dug' (I'm sure there's a better way at putting it, but I'm not that smart) type of person?
-This question brought to you by me reading the current "Questionable Content" story arc.-
Hahaha I wondered where the sudden spate of these threads was coming from. I also had Claire in mind on reading it
Is it also because world + dog seems to be conspiring to push her and Marten together?
Personally ... I dunno. I'd like to say yes, but occasionally my gut will interfere with my own best intentions in difficult situations and cause me to panic and lose the power of rational thought. The limbic system is a terrible thing as far as civilisation and civilised behaviour is concerned.
I think it would depend on the circumstances, how we felt for each other on the whole, and - what may be a terrible thing to say, but we're talking in the spirit of brutal honesty here - at what point I found out. As well as what my own desires re: potential family life etc were at the time (right now? can't be bothered with kids, especially when everyone i know is dropping sprog and having a terrible time. in 5-10 years? well, that may change), and perhaps the tech level that may facilitate it.
As far as other people's reactions should they find out and go... eww, you're kissing a guyyyyy... fuck 'em. That would highlight that they may have reacted the same if I had instead come out and dated a cis-male instead of trans-fem, and in which case, they're off the christmas card list. It looks like a duck, tends to quack mostly like one, has learned to waddle, and may well have had a bit of corrective meddling to disguise the more chicken-like parts (...I'm not actually 100% whether that would be necessary, as I haven't found myself in that situation so unsure whether I'd deal with pre-op discoveries. Maybe I'd run a mile, maybe it'd be "ok... if it's you... and I can check for cameras first"). Might not smell entirely correct, but if we're otherwise happy in each other's company, that can either be ignored or disguised to an extent. So, that's good enough in the modern world.
((I'd also ask the "ewww" people ... ok, what if my partner was instead trans-male... would you be ok with that as, after all, I'm still kissing a genetic-girl?))
Just realised I didn't actually answer the question ... skirting around it while being beaten by Tragedy ... one day she'll be nice to me, I just know it.
Anywhoo....
Yes, yes I would. As i've said before, the physical aspects of a person I can overlook.
The only thing i'd be interested in is if they comfortable enough to be themselves around me.
I know what I meant to ask you yesterday (bloody ageing memory, aint what it used to be).
Could you send me the link for the book type thing you wrote. I lost the link and wanted to buy it. I say lost, my bookmarks kinda vanished for reasons unknown to me (funnily enough, the same day my daughter used my computer) and when I went to look for it I couldn't find the bugger.
Just realised I didn't actually answer the question ... skirting around it while being beaten by Tragedy ... one day she'll be nice to me, I just know it.
Anywhoo....
Yes, yes I would. As i've said before, the physical aspects of a person I can overlook.
The only thing i'd be interested in is if they comfortable enough to be themselves around me.
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