Court Documents Reveal Anime Licensing Costs

[The Wooster]

Court Documents Reveal Anime Licensing Costs

Ever wondered how much it costs to license a show?

Those of you who wait (and wait) for licensed, western-releases of anime shows rather than just nab them off the internet the second they appear may remember a company called ADV. Taking over after Manga Entertainment [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svlt2cJI5So] began to sink into obscurity, ADV dominated the western anime market for nearly a decade. It was responsible for the first official western releases of Neon Genesis: Evangelion, Hellsing, Dragon Half (the trailer for which is nine different types of amazing [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUfDa5YXbEE]) and Excel Saga, to name but a few.

Sadly, things haven't been going too well for the Texas-based company. In 2007, ADV took ARM corporation to court for breach of contract. ARM responded by claiming it had spent $10.5 million on content for ADV as part of a licensing acquisition agreement, and that ADV had only paid back $1,592,994. The case was eventually dropped, but ARM transferred the right to enforce the contract to FUNimation, which is currently trying to collect on the debt.

Anyway, the upside of this tale of legal woe is that during the original court case, ARM corporation filed a document showing how much it had paid for each show ADV licensed. The document was acquired from the Harris County District Clerk's [http://www.hcdistrictclerk.com/Common/Default.aspx] Office by the Anime News Network. The following figures are all in US dollars.



Guyver 746,665
Comic Party 30,336
Jinki:Extend 91,000
Pani Poni Dash! 138,666
Utawarerumono 109,201
Moeyo Ken 43,335
Coyote Ragtime Show 224,000
UFO Ultramaiden Valkyrie 21,335
Nerima Daikon Brothers 124,800
Air Gear 780,000
Sgt. Frog 408,000
Le Chevalier D'Eon 440,000
Ghost Train/Synesthesia 58,668
Kurau: Phantom Memory 960,000
009-1 325,000
Shin Angyo Onshi 130,000
Ah! My Goddess 2 (Ah! My Goddess: Flights of Fancy) 516,000
Innocent Venus 120,000
Pumpkin Scissors 780,000
Red Garden 660,000
Welcome to the NHK 240,000
Magikano 65,000
Xenosaga 120,000
Tokyo Majin 780,000
Project Blue Earth SOS 180,000
Yamato Nadeshiko Shichi Henge (The Wallflower) 500,000
Air TV Series 145,000
Air: The Movie 20,000
Moonlight Mile 156,000
King of Bandit Jing in Seventh Heaven 50,000


Welcome to the NHK is a steal at $240,000, but nearly a million for Kurau: Phantom Memory seems a touch excessive, as does the $725,665 paid for the 2005's forgettable Guyver remake. These prices do seem a bit low, considering the ludicrous cost of anime boxsets, but I guess those (terrible) dubs don't produce themselves.

Source: ANN [http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2012-01-30/adv-court-documents-reveal-amounts-paid-for-29-anime-titles]



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[Therumancer]

Well, to be fair there has been a lot of criticism about the cost to get these shows vs. the cost of the product when it's released on the US market. During the years I followed Anime more heavily I personally saw the justifications shift from claims that it was a niche market and had to have a high price, to (as the size of the US fandom increased to near-mainstream proportions) involuted claims about having to pay millions of dollars in royalties to the entire Japanese cast of the shows individually and things like that... this isnt the first "reveal" of the actual costs of it's kind. Honestly it's one of the reasons my interest flagged, I became increasingly disgusted with a fandom I at one time helped expand wallow in such greed.

An interesting point to consider is that back in the days of VHS tapes, when dinosaurs walked the earth, and Grog was taking the wheel to General Motors for the first time, a subtitled tape cost more than the dubbed version. An interesting point many seem to forget when looking at the presumed cost of dubbing. What's more people tend to fail to realize that subbing these things is so cheap and easy to do... relatively speaking, that people do it for free as a hobby, with people fansubbing unreleased titles being one of the big forms of competition with the industry. I consider it almost funny how Naruto famously had a decent subbed version out almost simultaneously with it's broadcast, and yet the prices demanded on the shelves were like most anime pretty high all considered.

It's interesting to hear about the legal battles, I gave up on following this end of things quite some time ago... but it's really not surprising. With the sheer amount of money that can still be made from people who will pay like $20-$30 for a few 30 minute episodes of some anime, it's not surprising that even with the slowly dwindling pool of fans we're seeing some nasty fights over it. Anything that has that low an investment, for such a high potential return is going to breed infighting between those in the business.

Such are my thoughts.

Oh and on a parting note, when looking at some of the prices you have to consider the relative production values, Japanese success, and of course brand power. "The Guyver" is one of the few properties that has some degree of US recognition, so can carry an audience even if it blows chips due to people who will buy it just because it's The Guyver. Granted this isn't mainstream recognition, but more than most anime carries with it. It's a much safer investment than other things, and the Japanese rights holders doubtlesly knew that and priced it accordingly, the fact that the money was paid seems to show that the guys doing the purchusing for ADV agreed.

 

[chaosyoshimage]

Not all dubs are bad, these days most of them are pretty good actually. I don't think I could watch Baccano! in Japanese to be honest...

 

[The Wooster]

Not all dubs are bad, these days most of them are pretty good actually. I don't think I could watch Baccano! in Japanese to be honest...

The Japanese dub is excellent, particularly Isaac and Miria.

 

[DanDeFool]

Holy shit! $780,000 for Air Gear? What a rip-off!

 

[Viridian]

Holy shit! $780,000 for Air Gear? What a rip-off!

Not-great reviews? Check.
Unfinished story? Check.
MAIN CHARACTER TAKES AN ON-SCREEN DUMP? Check.
780,000 US Dollars? Man, that's just icing on the cake.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

Not all dubs are bad, these days most of them are pretty good actually. I don't think I could watch Baccano! in Japanese to be honest...

The Japanese dub is excellent, particularly Isaac and Miria.

Anything with those two is automatically awesome. But I do like how the rest of the cast came across in American English.

 

[The Wooster]

Not all dubs are bad, these days most of them are pretty good actually. I don't think I could watch Baccano! in Japanese to be honest...

The Japanese dub is excellent, particularly Isaac and Miria.

Anything with those two is automatically awesome. But I do like how the rest of the cast came across in American English.

They also turn up in 'Durarara!,' which, coincidentally, comes out on Blu-Ray next week. For $480.

 

[The Wooster]

Are any of these animes even CLOSE to being worth what they paid?

Under ADV's business model? Not really. Funimation picked up most of those titles however, and it seems to be doing okay.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

Not all dubs are bad, these days most of them are pretty good actually. I don't think I could watch Baccano! in Japanese to be honest...

The Japanese dub is excellent, particularly Isaac and Miria.

Anything with those two is automatically awesome. But I do like how the rest of the cast came across in American English.

They also turn up in 'Durarara!,' which, coincidentally, comes out on Blu-Ray next week. For $480.

I remember that scene. I saw Durarara! first and had no idea who they were. It took about two or three episodes of Baccano! to realize who they were.

Also,

 

[evilneko]

Not all dubs are bad, these days most of them are pretty good actually. I don't think I could watch Baccano! in Japanese to be honest...

The Japanese dub is excellent, particularly Isaac and Miria.

I actually hated those two in both languages. >.>

And hey, I only grab unlicensed fansubs!

Granted, whether or not I later buy the US release is a different matter. I don't buy animes that suck after all, wouldn't want to encourage the importation of more crap. And Tokyopop's raping of Initial D, ugh... thankfully Funimation rescued that series.

 

[Ghengis John]

Not all dubs are bad, these days most of them are pretty good actually. I don't think I could watch Baccano! in Japanese to be honest...

The Japanese dub is excellent, particularly Isaac and Miria.

But let's be honest, the English dub was spectacular. The accents were well done and Brain Massey stole the show as Ladd Russo. I generally prefer subs. Naturally there's always the argument about seeing the original presentation as intended. I'm not so hardcore however that I refuse to give another actor a chance or to give credit where it's due. You don't go to a performance of Macbeth and boo the cast for not being the original director's picks do you? Characters in anime are just roles and I have found sometimes another actor handles the character better than the original. There are times when I do think the localizers earn their share of the take and that this was certainly one of them.


It's fair to say that some dubs are terrible. Many of them are. However some people are going to take issue because you seem to be saying that all dubs are terrible. When the Japanese fandom themselves will famously pay exorbitant amounts to import the English dub of "The Big O" because they think the dubbed cast is better that argument somehow falls flat.

It might not look like it but I do prefer subs (even with the direction this post seems to be taking). Couldn't dream of watching Bleach in English and Excel Saga's dub was a form of audio torture. There are a lot of hurdles involved in creating a dub from time constraints to translation gap. That said, I try to avoid making blanket statements and judge on a case by case basis. I'm not going to act like Brina Palencia was "terrible" in spice and wolf, because she wasn't, nor that Crispin Freeman was "terrible" as Alucard in Hellsing because he wasn't (they got that entire cast back together) nor that Steven Blum, the Jim Cummings of our day, did a "terrible" job as Spike Speigel in Cowboy Bebop because he didn't. Let's be fair, shall we?

Then again I guess everything boils down to personal taste. Especially comedy.

 

[chaosyoshimage]

Not all dubs are bad, these days most of them are pretty good actually. I don't think I could watch Baccano! in Japanese to be honest...

The Japanese dub is excellent, particularly Isaac and Miria.

Anything with those two is automatically awesome. But I do like how the rest of the cast came across in American English.

Except for dub Durarara!!, it's mostly a good dub, but when those two characters get a cameo, it's like Bang Zoom! didn't even try...

Not all dubs are bad, these days most of them are pretty good actually. I don't think I could watch Baccano! in Japanese to be honest...

The Japanese dub is excellent, particularly Isaac and Miria.

But let's be honest, the English dub was spectacular. The accents were well done and Brain Massey stole the show as Ladd Russo. I generally prefer subs. Naturally there's always the argument about seeing the original presentation as intended. I'm not so hardcore however that I refuse to give another actor a chance or to give credit where it's due. You don't go to a performance of Macbeth and boo the cast for not being the original director's picks do you? Characters in anime are just roles and I have found sometimes another actor handles the character better than the original. There are times when I do think the localizers earn their share of the take and that this was certainly one of them.


It's fair to say that some dubs are terrible. Many of them are. However some people are going to take issue because you seem to be saying that all dubs are terrible. When the Japanese fandom themselves will famously pay exorbitant amounts to import the English dub of "The Big O" because they think the dubbed cast is better that argument somehow falls flat.

It might not look like it but I do prefer subs (even with the direction this post seems to be taking). Couldn't dream of watching Bleach in English and Excel Saga's dub was a form of audio torture. There are a lot of hurdles involved in creating a dub from time constraints to translation gap. That said, I try to avoid making blanket statements and judge on a case by case basis. I'm not going to act like Brina Palencia was "terrible" in spice and wolf, because she wasn't, nor that Crispin Freeman was "terrible" as Alucard in Hellsing because he wasn't (they got that entire cast back together) nor that Steven Blum, the Jim Cummings of our day, did a "terrible" job as Spike Speigel in Cowboy Bebop because he didn't.

Then again I guess everything boils down to personal taste. Especially comedy.

Basically, all of this, especially Brian Massey, that was his first major anime role too, and he just nailed it. I like a lot of the voice work in that dub which is why I used it as my example. It's not just that it's a series set in a America with American characters, but the dub handled all the characters superbly.

That said, I there are a lot of dubs I can't stand, obviously anything from 4kids, the early episodes of dub DBZ (Although, the rest of it isn't very good either), Neon Genesis Evangelion (Everyone is so stilted and Asuka is horrible, I do like the Rebuild dub though), and Paprika (That has the same problems as a live-action dub). However, I like to watch dubs when they're good since I end up missing a lot of animation details when I have to have my eyes glued to the bottom of the screen to read subs.

 

[Ghengis John]

I never heard of any of these. How about some worth while animes like death note, code goess, bleach, etc, how much did those animes cost to make?

There's quite a few good shows on this list. They were mostly shows from the early 2000's so if you're younger it'll increase the chances you missed them. Just because you never heard of them though doesn't mean they weren't worthwhile. Treat yourself to "Welcome to The NHK" sometime. For that matter Pumpkin Scissors should be available on Netflix or if you're broke as a stone Coyote Ragtime Show is on YouTube via funimation.

It's fair to say though Bleach was probably a very expensive acquisition. It was one of the "Big Three" manga/animes in Japan so it probably commanded a high asking price to say nothing of the fact that all of the "Big Three" are JUMP properties so it's not like they have competitors to undercut.

 

[j0frenzy]

Kurau: Phantom Memory 960,000

Ah ha ha. Really? Did anyone watch that before they paid that much for it? That series had a fantastic first episode for artsy people and had no idea what to do with the rest of it, though I never got more than 1/2 way through.

 

[SH4DOWSL4Y3R]

They also turn up in 'Durarara!,' which, coincidentally, comes out on Blu-Ray next week. For $480.

ok, anime prices are already exorbitant as-is. how the hell do they justify that price? DRRR is good, but most i'd pay for it is maybe around $80-100 on dvd and around $120-130 for blu-ray.

at that price, you're paying like $19 per episode... and they wonder why people just turn to fansubs or piracy instead.

the way i see it, $60-100 is the sweet spot for any average length (24-26 episode) anime series released within a recent-ish time period (say around 5 years or so), and around 30 bucks extra for blu ray versions. maybe slap on 10-20 bucks extra if it comes with a decent collectible item of some description.

also, one of my friends that i do anime marathons with got really annoyed with isaac & miria when we watched baccano because they "took up too much screen time" his reaction to the scene in which they appeared in DRRR was hilarious.