The Last of Us is sexist... That stupid argument again. If you're going to claim such a thing, you either haven't played the game at all or you wanted Ellie to be a bland flawless character. She was very capable in most situations (she even saved Joel and escaped from captivity all by herself) and the game made it clear that Joel probably needed her more than she needed him.
CRACKED: "6 Sexist Video Game Problems Even Bigger Than the Breasts"
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Sure, but you only feel this way because you stubbed your toe this morning.AkaDad said:
Personally, I felt that Joel's deep-seated daughter-issues negated any and all quality writing in the game.ajapam said:
Probably one of the most worst articles I've seen by non-gaming publications dealing with supposed controversial topics in gaming. Lots of people outside the gaming industry - and even some working in it - seem to view the game industry as a person with a sign on their back that says, "Kick me!" It's like gaming is that new kid in school who was happy until people started to notice him. Then a few embarrassing but misunderstood things happened and now everyone sees Gaming as some silly and awkward kid who's become everyone's favorite person to pick on - even the people you thought wouldn't pick on Gaming would join the bullies to ridicule Gaming.
And no one wants to stand up for Gaming, not even Gaming itself. Gaming is too busy shifting blame, self-harming, and worst of all: Gaming becomes convinced that the bullies are justified in their bullying. From there, Gaming's identity will remain lost because some days Gaming is told to stop being so insensitive - despite never having that as an intention - and the next, Gaming is is told to stop being so offensive to people Gaming's never known and would never try to offend. And when they get after Gaming, they pretend they know who Gaming is. After so much abuse, Gaming is drained of so much time and energy; and accepts these accusations as true no matter what consequences follow.
I guess what I'm saying is that since the game industry has such poor advocacy, where most times commits shameless and immature reactions to criticism; controversial matters end up being so mishandled that people with so little understanding of today's games can be called an authority of this medium without any basis, strong arguments, and least of all; they fail to demonstrate a shred of respect and dignity to Gaming as medium. One might say, "Well, why would anyone take Gaming seriously if Gaming never acted serious to begin with?" For that I'd say, the chicken, or the egg. I believe, this is the result of the same effect for when you say something long enough that people will eventually believe it. As my above allegory illustrated, and without echoing it further, the bullying went on so long that Gaming now feels this treatment is deserved when nothing was done wrong.
These people who do this are outside of the medium, make claims of violations Gaming has committed, basing their claims on vague and general assumptions - which are technically lies - and demand rules be put in place that are ultimately detrimental to Gaming's future. This has reached a point where you can claim Gaming has done something wrong, put a general and absolute statement about what was done wrong, and then present proof without its true context. Congratulations! Now, all the people with good intentions, who would otherwise support noble cause, albeit blindly, are now your followers (we'll fix sensationalism later).
Cracked is simply the latest relatively well-known outlet to take advantage of this. Not to say that Cracked hasn't already shown their incompetence in approaching video game culture when one looks at their past articles, but there seems to be only one person who's made game related articles for that website who seems to know what they're saying - David Wong.
But, it seems like he's given up on gaming. I can't really blame him. Plenty of my friends have too. When you reach a point where you're tired of waiting for things to get better and are so frustrated while waiting, it takes a toll.
You know what they say, the things you care about most are the ones that make you the most upset. It's similar to the sentimentality of being a parent; and we actual gamers are the parents of Gaming. When we are going to step in and help this poor child that can't seem to catch a break, when all along we want to see Gaming have fun, or rather be fun. Remember when Gaming was all about having fun?
And no one wants to stand up for Gaming, not even Gaming itself. Gaming is too busy shifting blame, self-harming, and worst of all: Gaming becomes convinced that the bullies are justified in their bullying. From there, Gaming's identity will remain lost because some days Gaming is told to stop being so insensitive - despite never having that as an intention - and the next, Gaming is is told to stop being so offensive to people Gaming's never known and would never try to offend. And when they get after Gaming, they pretend they know who Gaming is. After so much abuse, Gaming is drained of so much time and energy; and accepts these accusations as true no matter what consequences follow.
I guess what I'm saying is that since the game industry has such poor advocacy, where most times commits shameless and immature reactions to criticism; controversial matters end up being so mishandled that people with so little understanding of today's games can be called an authority of this medium without any basis, strong arguments, and least of all; they fail to demonstrate a shred of respect and dignity to Gaming as medium. One might say, "Well, why would anyone take Gaming seriously if Gaming never acted serious to begin with?" For that I'd say, the chicken, or the egg. I believe, this is the result of the same effect for when you say something long enough that people will eventually believe it. As my above allegory illustrated, and without echoing it further, the bullying went on so long that Gaming now feels this treatment is deserved when nothing was done wrong.
These people who do this are outside of the medium, make claims of violations Gaming has committed, basing their claims on vague and general assumptions - which are technically lies - and demand rules be put in place that are ultimately detrimental to Gaming's future. This has reached a point where you can claim Gaming has done something wrong, put a general and absolute statement about what was done wrong, and then present proof without its true context. Congratulations! Now, all the people with good intentions, who would otherwise support noble cause, albeit blindly, are now your followers (we'll fix sensationalism later).
Cracked is simply the latest relatively well-known outlet to take advantage of this. Not to say that Cracked hasn't already shown their incompetence in approaching video game culture when one looks at their past articles, but there seems to be only one person who's made game related articles for that website who seems to know what they're saying - David Wong.
But, it seems like he's given up on gaming. I can't really blame him. Plenty of my friends have too. When you reach a point where you're tired of waiting for things to get better and are so frustrated while waiting, it takes a toll.
You know what they say, the things you care about most are the ones that make you the most upset. It's similar to the sentimentality of being a parent; and we actual gamers are the parents of Gaming. When we are going to step in and help this poor child that can't seem to catch a break, when all along we want to see Gaming have fun, or rather be fun. Remember when Gaming was all about having fun?
Neither have most who jump on the it is the platonic ideal of video game sexism. Which is why I hate it being badmouthed so. Questionable elements and mistakes even with gender, it has them. The utter sexist thing everIkasury said:
puhleeze. People are pissed that Adam tells you what to do and you do it and its not what you would do anyway.
I just came in to say that the treatment of Elizabeth in Bioshock Infinite is NOT sexist.
Of course she needs the help of Booker! She may be a walking McGuffin with reality bending powers, but she's still an underage teenager who has lived most of her life sheltered in a safe (though restrictive) environment. She's even horrified when she sees Booker killing hordes of racists with the ease and carelessness only a psychopath (or a videogame player) can muster.
She's portrayed realistically. She can fend for herself very well, as long as it doesn't involve taking a life.
Of course she needs the help of Booker! She may be a walking McGuffin with reality bending powers, but she's still an underage teenager who has lived most of her life sheltered in a safe (though restrictive) environment. She's even horrified when she sees Booker killing hordes of racists with the ease and carelessness only a psychopath (or a videogame player) can muster.
She's portrayed realistically. She can fend for herself very well, as long as it doesn't involve taking a life.
I agree with the central point, that a large part of the video game industry is sexist and terrible. I disagree with many if not most of their specific examples and arguments.
One that sticks out to me is calling the new Tomb Raider game sexist, because Laura cries a couple times. For reference purposes, this was immediately after she was stranded alone on an island full of psychopaths with no survival equipment while she was a teenager with no skills outside theoretical archeology. That doesn't make her some defenseless weepy damsel, it makes her a fucking human. And after she dries those tears is she saved by some ultramasculine stoic father/boyfriend figure? No. She takes her makeshift bow and her climbing axe and she starts systematically exterminating every threat to her and those she cares about. There is one time in the game when a man tries to protect her, impress her, and be a big tough hero-man; spoiler alert he gets himself caught and the teenage girl has to tear through hundreds of thugs to try to save him, then he even manages to fuck up his own rescue by being so bloody macho he gets himself killed. And then she cries a little (not because she's lost without her big strong man, because he used to be a friend and then he got himself killed for nothing by being a fucking idiot) and goes on to exterminate the people who did that to him so they can't hurt anybody else.
If managing to make the protagonist a badass without making them emotionless and inhuman is your definition of sexism, you're doing it wrong.
Yes, a lot of games are sexist. A lot of games are stupid. Basically 90% of everything, from video games to books to TV to humans, are shit. I would very much like games to be less sexist, and less stupid, but until that happens I'll keep playing the ones that aren't instead of calling the whole industry evil.
One that sticks out to me is calling the new Tomb Raider game sexist, because Laura cries a couple times. For reference purposes, this was immediately after she was stranded alone on an island full of psychopaths with no survival equipment while she was a teenager with no skills outside theoretical archeology. That doesn't make her some defenseless weepy damsel, it makes her a fucking human. And after she dries those tears is she saved by some ultramasculine stoic father/boyfriend figure? No. She takes her makeshift bow and her climbing axe and she starts systematically exterminating every threat to her and those she cares about. There is one time in the game when a man tries to protect her, impress her, and be a big tough hero-man; spoiler alert he gets himself caught and the teenage girl has to tear through hundreds of thugs to try to save him, then he even manages to fuck up his own rescue by being so bloody macho he gets himself killed. And then she cries a little (not because she's lost without her big strong man, because he used to be a friend and then he got himself killed for nothing by being a fucking idiot) and goes on to exterminate the people who did that to him so they can't hurt anybody else.
If managing to make the protagonist a badass without making them emotionless and inhuman is your definition of sexism, you're doing it wrong.
Yes, a lot of games are sexist. A lot of games are stupid. Basically 90% of everything, from video games to books to TV to humans, are shit. I would very much like games to be less sexist, and less stupid, but until that happens I'll keep playing the ones that aren't instead of calling the whole industry evil.
I have played neither The Last of Us nor Other M. I have no intention of playing Other M (waiting for price to go down on TLoU). Tomb Raider I've covered.
Zelda? She's the hero in the majority of the games, basically all the ones where she isn't turned to stone in the first five minutes; she makes the plans, she sets up the pieces, she uses the Wisdom she's known for far and wide to maneuver Link like a rather versatile chess piece and take down the evil which invades HER nation. Just because she isn't the one out swinging a pointy stick around and losing pints of blood for the cause doesn't mean she's an object, especially since Link has been demonstrated to be useless without the guidance of his (mostly female) guides.
In KotOR and Mass Effect we have a protagonist of whatever gender you feel like, female party members being almost universally interesting and badass, and a large fraction of male npcs being whiny and useless.
In the Monkey Island games you play as what looks like a swashbuckling male hero, only to find out pretty much every time that Elaine has already solved the problem in a much more intelligent manner and you almost screwed it with your bumbling "heroics".
Fallout? Elder Scrolls? I don't see the sexism.
What else have I been playing... Fallen Enchantress? No sexism there.
Mount and Blade: Warband? Yeah, okay, the top female units outclass every male unit in the game but get paid a fraction of the amount, and if you play as a woman nobody will accept you as a general, so your only option is to take your band of sword sisters and conquer the fucking world until they take you seriously.
Portal? Nope.
XCOM? no.
Hate Plus? Okay, we're done here.
The industry isn't sexist. Several writers and devs are sexist, but you can usually solve that problem by not talking about their games and taking away all the free rage-publicity they sustain themselves on.
Zelda? She's the hero in the majority of the games, basically all the ones where she isn't turned to stone in the first five minutes; she makes the plans, she sets up the pieces, she uses the Wisdom she's known for far and wide to maneuver Link like a rather versatile chess piece and take down the evil which invades HER nation. Just because she isn't the one out swinging a pointy stick around and losing pints of blood for the cause doesn't mean she's an object, especially since Link has been demonstrated to be useless without the guidance of his (mostly female) guides.
In KotOR and Mass Effect we have a protagonist of whatever gender you feel like, female party members being almost universally interesting and badass, and a large fraction of male npcs being whiny and useless.
In the Monkey Island games you play as what looks like a swashbuckling male hero, only to find out pretty much every time that Elaine has already solved the problem in a much more intelligent manner and you almost screwed it with your bumbling "heroics".
Fallout? Elder Scrolls? I don't see the sexism.
What else have I been playing... Fallen Enchantress? No sexism there.
Mount and Blade: Warband? Yeah, okay, the top female units outclass every male unit in the game but get paid a fraction of the amount, and if you play as a woman nobody will accept you as a general, so your only option is to take your band of sword sisters and conquer the fucking world until they take you seriously.
Portal? Nope.
XCOM? no.
Hate Plus? Okay, we're done here.
The industry isn't sexist. Several writers and devs are sexist, but you can usually solve that problem by not talking about their games and taking away all the free rage-publicity they sustain themselves on.
I'm gunna have to disagree with you. The industry is sexist as hell by and large with few examples of when they aren't.Magenera said:spoiler for space.No one seems to now what sexism is or what misogyny is anymore. It has lost damn near all meaning as it been turned to mean what ever I don't like or it offends me.
Sexulization is not sexist.
Common story tropes not sexist.
Not catering to the females not sexist.
Offending females not sexist.
Objectification not sexist.
"What about female protagonist and variety of female leads?" Here's an example and that is just with the player playing as them, the list is acutally quite large, and if we go female characters as a whole it get's larger still. Lazy is lazy, and unless you're in the camp that says east market doesn't count because it's sexist. Which in that case you know you're already full of shit.
[http://s831.photobucket.com/user/Magenera/media/1379535106390.jpg.html]
Here's a look on just protognanist, whether they're coming out or the game is shit, or G.O.A.T.
http://www.giantbomb.com/female-protagonists/3015-2287/games/
Also there is a female market, and yes men and women play different games just as they enjoy different shit in different media. Female gamer's even have a preference.
http://www.gamepolitics.com/2010/07/07/study-looks-what-girls-want-out-games
http://usabilitynews.org/video-games-males-prefer-violence-while-females-prefer-social/
Can we now call these people out now? Most of the shit they say are not researched, and you can debunk most of their shit just by spending some time on google.
Oh yeah, I once encounter the argument of social pressure on females not playing games catering to the male market. Yeah, I'll just respond to that one, if one is to much of a coward to play certain type of video games because of that? That's not anyone else but their own problems.
sex·ism
noun \ˈsek-ˌsi-zəm\
: unfair treatment of people because of their sex; especially : unfair treatment of women
Full Definition of SEXISM
1: prejudice or discrimination based on sex; especially : discrimination against women
2: behavior, conditions, or attitudes that foster stereotypes of social roles based on sex
Now,
http://www.giantbomb.com/sleeping-dogs/3030-29441/
http://www.gamecritics.com/brad-gallaway/brink-no-girls-allowed
http://www.penny-arcade.com/report/article/games-with-female-heroes-dont-sell-because-publishers-dont-support-them
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/123139-Devs-Had-to-Demand-Female-Focus-Testers-for-The-Last-of-Us
http://www.penny-arcade.com/report/article/remember-mes-surprising-connection-to-facebook-and-why-its-protagonist-had
http://kotaku.com/investigation-a-video-game-studio-from-hell-511872642
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/123139-Devs-Had-to-Demand-Female-Focus-Testers-for-The-Last-of-Us
http://www.penny-arcade.com/report/article/remember-mes-surprising-connection-to-facebook-and-why-its-protagonist-had
http://popwatch.ew.com/2012/05/01/god-of-war-ascension-multiplayer/ or http://www.gameinformer.com/games/god_of_war_ascension/b/ps3/archive/2012/04/30/sony-unveils-god-of-war-ascensions-multiplayer.aspx
http://uk.gamespot.com/features/fear-of-a-woman-warrior-6404142/
http://www.gamespot.com/news/naughty-dog-insisted-on-female-testers-for-the-last-of-us-6406619
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evI5pF5h8Ck
http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=252 a point made in the form of a joke
http://indigitainment.com/2013/05/08/indigenous-determination-in-game-space/
http://www.vg247.com/2013/03/22/beyond-two-souls-dev-asked-to-show-star-holding-a-gun-on-cover-we-catigorically-refused/
http://www.toybox-games.jp/english0107.html
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-03-20-bastion-developer-teases-transistor-for-pax-east
http://lesbiangamers.com/2008/05/farcry-2-female-character-fiasco/
http://www.gamecritics.com/brad-gallaway/brink-no-girls-allowed
http://www.penny-arcade.com/report/article/games-with-female-heroes-dont-sell-because-publishers-dont-support-them
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/123139-Devs-Had-to-Demand-Female-Focus-Testers-for-The-Last-of-Us
http://www.penny-arcade.com/report/article/remember-mes-surprising-connection-to-facebook-and-why-its-protagonist-had
http://kotaku.com/investigation-a-video-game-studio-from-hell-511872642
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/123139-Devs-Had-to-Demand-Female-Focus-Testers-for-The-Last-of-Us
http://www.penny-arcade.com/report/article/remember-mes-surprising-connection-to-facebook-and-why-its-protagonist-had
http://popwatch.ew.com/2012/05/01/god-of-war-ascension-multiplayer/ or http://www.gameinformer.com/games/god_of_war_ascension/b/ps3/archive/2012/04/30/sony-unveils-god-of-war-ascensions-multiplayer.aspx
http://uk.gamespot.com/features/fear-of-a-woman-warrior-6404142/
http://www.gamespot.com/news/naughty-dog-insisted-on-female-testers-for-the-last-of-us-6406619
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evI5pF5h8Ck
http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=252 a point made in the form of a joke
http://indigitainment.com/2013/05/08/indigenous-determination-in-game-space/
http://www.vg247.com/2013/03/22/beyond-two-souls-dev-asked-to-show-star-holding-a-gun-on-cover-we-catigorically-refused/
http://www.toybox-games.jp/english0107.html
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-03-20-bastion-developer-teases-transistor-for-pax-east
http://lesbiangamers.com/2008/05/farcry-2-female-character-fiasco/
Female protagonists, especially in games where you only play as a woman are rare. Even rarer when they have personal lives, love interests, etc. Yet guys gave love interests, and personal lives all the time.
The 2 gender representations are far from equal in how they're treated.
Using gender select games is a bit of a copout. Gender tends not to mean a damn in those games. Mass Effect, Skyrim, Fallout, da hell impact does gender really have? It's fine and dandy they exist and at times gender shouldn't matter, but on the same note there should be games where gender does matter.
And considering you're going back to the 90's, it seems with your list, back to the PSX era, are you saying people who want variety, and to play as a woman in woman's story have to buy old games?
There's some frikking inequity there since guys generally don't have to.
Yeah, giant bomb has a long, pretty unsorted, and flawed list that goes back to the 80's but saying "Go retro, and deal with it!" ain't gunna fly too well, IMO. It sure won't win any arguments with me.
Same with "well, import games from japan!"
No, not really, we can't call them out. Not all of them. Knowing a lot, or not, they got a point at times. It doesn't take a professional to see these problems, it just takes the willingness to see this sort of thing happens.
I'm not saying there has to be a 50/50 split, but I'd like female protagonists to be far more common than they are, in a variety of games, in a variety of personalities, in a variety of roles that aren't rogues medics, mages, and archer, and basically a decent enough representation that there's enough opinions spread out enough that articles and threads like this actually have a decent amount of characters in modern games that can be used to argue against it.
Don't count? Didn't mean to imply that, but lets look at the ease in guys finding games with guy only protagonists vs the ease of finding games with a female only protagonist without having to buy several game systems.Magenera said:
And consider the effort you're asking people go through to find games to play when the vast majority of the catered to, and pandered to guys.
Giant bomb is a frikking mess that goes back to the dawn of gaming with no sorting, and I'd be hard pressed to imagine they have fact checking.
I might be moving the goal posts here, but I don't see the problem in looking at the past few years of gaming instead of having someone come in, demand I, and others go retro to get our fix. And Hell, I have gone retro some, and bought games well after release date to get my fix. Lemme tell ya something, it's not the greatest of gaming experiences, and all that research kinda sucks just to get a game?
I research like mad at times, sure, but you're expecting every last person that wants to play as a female, especially a female only to do the same? That's an unfair request.
Consider the fact that not everyone is so hard core they'll import games, buy ancient consoles, emulate Operating systems, or things like that just to play a game. Heck, they prolly won't even go back a genderation because they start with the ps3, or 360, or wii U.
Lets not forget everyone doesn't have a great gaming computer, or even a modest one, so telling them to go PC isn't a sure fire option.
We gotta look at how inviting the gaming industry is to people who want to play as women, and right now it could use improvement.
And importing often means learning other languages. Learning other languages just for a hobby?
Vs the dude bros that just walk into a store, and grab a game coz games that cater, and pander to them are all over the place?
What, exactly, is wrong with wanting to be pandered and/or catered to more in the modern gaming eras, anyhow? Why do people that want to play as women have to research, and find games well off the radar to get more than a handful of games? Why are we forced to rely on indie games (Well, not console gamers like me, they don't get many indie games.), and why do we have to tolerate the stuff that I linked that damages the odds of futire releases of female protagonists? I went back almost as far as you did in examples of, largely, the west getting involved with interfering with female protagonists.
Honestly, demanding people work so much harder to enjoy gaming is just... ludicrous, and honestly, dredging up old games isn't going to heal the wounds of people who're upset at the stuff that I linked to that does lend evidence that the industry, by and large, but not entirely (thank god) is sexist. Not just to women, but to guys, too. But mostly women, it feels like.
Until we can look to the future and see a decent diversity of women in more than a few games (especially vs the games that will come out in a year) these topics aren't going to end.
Your list of links needs amending. I actually bothered to open them up, and read some of the less completely boring ones. Given that I've seen you copy/paste them many times, I figured you think it's important.Rebel_Raven said:
You have the same TLOU story linked 3 times, 4 if you count the Beyond: Two souls link that is about wanting "a gun" on the cover to entice buyers (nowt to do with sex)... Before making a very brief nod to the same point about TLOU again...
The Bastion sequel link only serves to make a nod to the Remember Me story that you already have linked (twice), so that's redundant too. (twice over)
I think what the GoW story was saying was that they used the Kratos model as the base for the multiplayer player characters (who all seem to be the same shape, consistent with what he's saying) to save on animations and other assets. The one line that I imagine you're objecting to, I think is him trying to be funny. I can imagine that a female skin stretched over the Kratos model would look weird. At any rate... that story didn't need 2 links.
How much you think a web-comic (with a not completely related joke) and an old trailer help your cause is up to you. I'll just say that I wasn't impressed.
The Kotaku link appears to be about one man who happens to be a dick. Again... up to you. Just doesn't strike me as a video-game problem, so much as a workplace problem that could really come up in any industry.
Fair enough, I'll go through the links. I don't see it being chopped down much, though even with what you pointed out.Sexual Harassment Panda said:
I tried to not be redundant, but apparently I wasn't thorough enough. At the time some of the ones you pointed out, TLOU, and Remember me were big news, so some articles have story bleed.
COnsidering the fact that GoW has a -lot- of women in it, most scantily clad, some armored, I find it weird they couldn't use any of those assets to make female multiplayer characters.
The Zelda commercial is to help show how far back this stuff goes. Well, not even remotely how far back it truely goes, but it's one of the older references I could find to the game industry not being that inviting to women.
The link from the people who made Bastion jsut goes to show that the stuff I link to influences other developers, other producers, and definitely is negative. The development team are less trusting of the industry because of it's interference in developers making a game they want to make. Especially games with female protagonists.
Still evidence that the female presense in a game has a bad rap in the gaming industry. I doubt you were contesting that, though.
I appreciate your insight.
Sexualization can be sexist.Magenera said:
Common story tropes can also be sexist, that they are "common" do not excuse them. "Damsel in distress" IS a sexist trope.
Not catering to females can also be sexist, as it IS discrimination to only "cater" to men.
Offending females is sexist if you offend them because they are female, or if you offend them by doing so BASED on them being female.
Objectification is sexist. Period.
GoW has those female models, but they only have a few animations. Kratos, on the other hand has thousands. He's probably being honest when he says new avatars would take a lot of work.Rebel_Raven said:
I don't contest that it's harder to get a game with a female protagonist made, I just contest the interpretation. For example, Carolyn Petit boils it down to "cowardice" at the end of one article you linked. That doesn't strike me as fair. I think it's easy for an internet journalist (let's face it, most of them are low rent) to be flippant about such a thing, and not so easy when you're in a position where you have to please buyers, backers and try to create job security for a large team of developers. "If you make it, they will play it" is a silly attitude to adopt, because you don't know that.
I don't understand the need to bombard people with links and slightly wishy-washy (sorry) reasoning. If it boils down to "It's my opinion that it would be good to have more female protagonists, and hopefully some new story ideas", frankly... That's enough. That's fair. That opinion doesn't need heavy substantiation. It needs market testing, and I still don't think it's becoming to label those not doing it cowards. There's a world of responsibility that we don't have to consider, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't.
Is it really being worked on? This seems more like a hand wave at the issue then it being addressed. Also, I really didn't see this trope addressed until Sarkeesian brought it up. Hell, I was blissfully unaware of it until her muckraking began.[/quote]Bocaj2000 said:
3: Rape- The writer simply complains that it exists in games without analyzing how it is used. This is a new concept to gaming and is never treated casually when it is implemented.[/quote]
Analyzed how it is used? Hotline Miami 2 uses rape as a gag. It isn't something joke about, and here it is used as a punchline. With Heavy Rain, the attack occurs while she is wearing bra and panties. I played the scene, and the writer has merit to question why it is done in that manner.
The gaming community is not going to mature on it's own. You seems to think that it will take zero effort on anyone's part and that tomorrow or the next day we will all suddenly be treating women better. Unfortunately, that is not going to happen on it's own. It takes people to stand up and say something is not alright. For example, fully grown adults use rape as a term of absolute defeat like "The Alliance keeps getting raped by the Horde on the Battlegrounds." That is not ok, and a couple of years ago, that made me an unpopular person to point that out as pretty fucking offensive. It takes articles to be written and people to actively speak out about it, all of which get mocked and shouted down because they dare challenge the status quo.Bocaj2000 said:
[/quote]tyriless said:
"The gaming community is not going to mature on it's own. You seems to think that it will take zero effort on anyone's part and that tomorrow or the next day we will all suddenly be treating women better. Unfortunately, that is not going to happen on it's own. It takes people to stand up and say something is not alright. For example, fully grown adults use rape as a term of absolute defeat like "The Alliance keeps getting raped by the Horde on the Battlegrounds." That is not ok, and a couple of years ago, that made me an unpopular person to point that out as pretty fucking offensive. It takes articles to be written and people to actively speak out about it, all of which get mocked and shouted down because they dare challenge the status quo.[/quote]"Bocaj2000 said:
Was Sarkeesian's list of games primarily from the Mario and Zelda franchises, and elsewhere from the 80's and 90's enough to convince you that the damsel trope is super prevalent now? I'm not sure it is, you know. I think it's becoming less and less common now that the medium can tell more complex stories.
The gaming community might mature on it's own. The average age of the gamer seems set to climb and if more women are playing games then their presence will be adapted to with time. I think that making a big-fuss is probably fairly divisive.
Also, people using the term "rape" in that context. They know it's not the correct word, they know it might be taboo to some... That's part of the fun. Whenever you set up a boundary, someone is going to want to smash it down for shits and giggles and to prove that you're not the boss of them.
It is the internet. Nobody is "shouting down" the articles. I roll my eyes every time I read that shit. I understand the desire to want to paint everyone who disagrees with you as raving lunatics, but it's not honest.
edit - Botched the quoting. Sorry about that.