Crafting a crafting mechanic

[Gray-Philosophy]

Hello there

I'm trying to come up with a crafting mechanic of my own. I'm trying to make it as creative as I can with plenty of room for player customizability, while keeping it intuitive with materials and processes that make sense from a "realistic" perspective.

I've already let myself be inspired by games like Minecraft, various survival games, Dark Messiah, Fallout, Ultima Online and various other MMORPG's. So far I've got a pretty good idea of the basic stuff, but I'm sure tere's always room for improvement.

What are some of the more entertaining or genius crafting systems you've seen in games you played? Perhaps you even have creative ideas of your own you'd like to share?

 

[endtherapture]

I liked Skyrim's crafting mechanics because it was fairly simple.

Crafting mechanics are generally very annoying due to micromanagement. You should either have a stash available from anywhere so you can store your materials there and then be able to access that stash from stations. Or you should have no stash, but be able to craft on the fly with equipment you are carrying on yourself (ala Dragon Age).

I don't like too much refinement of items because it gets confusing. There should be raw wood, ores/ingots and cloth/leather which combines into items. Combining cotton plants to make cotton to refine it into wool to refine it into cloth is just too much and makes everything too confusing.

 

[Gray-Philosophy]

Crafting mechanics are generally very annoying due to micromanagement. You should either have a stash available from anywhere so you can store your materials there and then be able to access that stash from stations.

Oh definitely. Messing around with a cluttered inventory and bagspace or whatnot becomes a terrible pain in the arse very quickly.

Or you should have no stash, but be able to craft on the fly with equipment you are carrying on yourself (ala Dragon Age).

My intentions are to make the crafting a bit of a game on it's own, which is why I want to make it as entertaining and engaging as possible.
The primary benefit from crafting is really just a bit of creative freedom when it comes to putting your equipment together (appearance and such), along with some freedom in specifying item properties outside of default vendor item properties.
Ultimately crafting isn't supposed to be a necessity by any means, but rather a creative outlet for when you feel like doing something other than killing baddies.

I don't like too much refinement of items because it gets confusing. There should be raw wood, ores/ingots and cloth/leather which combines into items. Combining cotton plants to make cotton to refine it into wool to refine it into cloth is just too much and makes everything too confusing.

Agreed. While I do want to keep it somewhat grounded in realism, there's no reason to overcomplicate it with unnecessary arbituary processes that just take time.

 

[endtherapture]

If you made it a game in itself it'd be fair enough to complicate it more, especially if the game was focused on exploration, gathering and crafting as the core of the game. I was thinking of it more in the term of a sub-system of another game, mainly RPGs, so you don't want to leave it too complicated if it's just a sub system in another game.

 

[happyninja42]

I would suggest you make an effort to make the stuff you craft to be universally useful. A lot of crafting systems end up consisting mostly of useless stuff, that you just grind to get to higher skill level, and make the few actually useful things.

Or the stuff that you can make without too much effort, isn't as good as the random drop stuff you could find if you just went out and killed some monsters for a few minutes.

Make the stuff useful and desirable to your players. Even if it's consumable stuff, make it stuff that is useful pretty much right out of the gate. You don't want them churning out 300 "chain bracers" just to get to higher levels. Let them make things like, oh, I don't know, consumable stat buff items for their gear, items they can use on party members to aid them, stuff they could possibly use in the environment to solve a puzzle/challenge in a different way. Example: "Why yes, I do know how to make dynamite my friend! And I happen to have a few sticks on me as we speak! I would be delighted to blow up that rock keeping our party from advancing down this alternate path!" *boom, open up alternate route in dungeon*

Stuff like that would, I think, make the crafting more enjoyable, more rewarding, and more desirable to your player base. This is coming from playing tons of different mmorpgs over a couple decades worth of time. And the most fun I had doing crafting was when I could see a direct benefit to doing so. Not just for selling on the auction house, but practical benefits for picking that tradeskill, that could be utilized in the rest of the game to my advantage.

 

[Alcamonic]

Freedom to add various items with each other for a variety of effects. Like example adding a sword to a shield. Now you can do a deadly shield-bash, but the blocking value of the shield becomes slightly worse due to the blade(s) causing slight imbalance.

This inspires creativity much more than the standard gather all the things on this recipe for instant success (this can of course still be in the game).

 

[duwenbasden]

The one thing I'd love to have in every game that has crafting -- the ability to hire someone else to do the crafting for you aka "custom orders" (for a price, of course). Not all adventurers are master smiths.

 

[nomotog_v1legacy]

The best crafting system in any game is the weapon crafting from dead rising 2. Simple and deep well being very useful.

I do have like a dream system I kick around. You know Dark Messiah well take that mix it in with harvest moon's tools. The idea I had was for all crafting to take place in the world rather then in a menu. If you want to make a iron bar, throw your ore into the bucket, knock the bucket into the forge, then shovel in coal into it till it heats up and pops the fished bar out like a aggressive toaster.

The idea is that the tools and materials will all have different effects. Like in the example I talked about, you could be using a shovel that lobs like a grenade, or maybe it fires in triple shot letting you feed coal into 3 forges at a time. One forge might aggressively toss the resulting ore across the room, well another might be more calm and just dispose all your bars in a neat little line. The ores and bars can even have different gameplay elements. One ore might be invisible, so you have to keep record of were you stashed it or play mark o polo with your hammer. Another ore might be constantly on fire requiring you to store it on metal counter tops.

 

[someonehairy-ish]

Well, it often seems to me that crafting systems are too focussed on a heirarchy of materials

eg. iron > bronze > steel > titanium > mithril

Which is quite boring because every material works the same way, just with bigger numbers. It would be more interesting to see a crafting system where you had to decide for yourself which material had the best properties for what you were making.

 

[Gray-Philosophy]

I would suggest you make an effort to make the stuff you craft to be universally useful. A lot of crafting systems end up consisting mostly of useless stuff, that you just grind to get to higher skill level, and make the few actually useful things.
. . . -snip-

Oh definitely. I want to try and eliminate unnecessary grinding as much as possible.
Equipment and such will work a lot more like utility instead of being based on stats. So there might not be a lot of scaling tiers of gear, but it will get broken and/or stolen on death, making it a good idea for adventurous combatants to team up with a skilled craftsman.

Freedom to add various items with each other for a variety of effects.
. . . -snip-

Yeah! I already thought of making a great variety of different components and attachments that can be mixed and matched to give players an opportunity to "explore" the crafting mechanics

The one thing I'd love to have in every game that has crafting -- the ability to hire someone else to do the crafting for you aka "custom orders" (for a price, of course). Not all adventurers are master smiths.

I've actually considered making an automated system for gathering materials. Instead of nodes evenly scattered across the terrain, players can find a mine or whatever and hire an NPC miner to gather materials for them automatically, for a cost. Of course, if they want to grab a pickaxe and dive in themselves they can do that too.

A custom order thing could be interesting, but I reckon it should cost something in return, giving them more incentive to pair up with a player-craftsman to try and get a better bargain.

I do have like a dream system I kick around. You know Dark Messiah well take that mix it in with harvest moon's tools. The idea I had was for all crafting to take place in the world rather then in a menu.
. . . -snip-

Really interesting idea actually, it would certainly make it engaging. I might fear that the process could get a little old after the tenth time of having to shovel coal though. Perhaps if you're able to produce in bulk so it doesn't end up being too repetitive.

Well, it often seems to me that crafting systems are too focussed on a heirarchy of materials

eg. iron > bronze > steel > titanium > mithril
. . . -snip-

Indeed. As mentioned I want to have it make sense from a "realistic" perspective. Steel and titanium might be superb for durable armour crafting because of their density, while bronze could offer a less durable but more easily produced alternative.

 

[Keyhound]

Im a fan of well implemented Crafting systems, but for that i have to ask, what type of game you want to make? it might not seem important, but a craft system must be in synch with the theme of the game, or it will fall flat.
Anyway, i like to categorize the crafting systems in 3 types: Survival, Enhancers, Trophies, here is what it means:

Survival: basically the player is forced to craft if he wants to survive and progress in the game, example - Minecraft(and its clones), Deep Blue.

Enhancers: the player doesnt even need to try to craft if he doesnt want, as its only "job" is to give something else to kill monsters with, example - Vagrant Story, Kingdom Hearts series, bad example - Castlevania: Dawn of sorrow.

Trophies: this is a special type of crafting, as its closer to the enhancer, but with a twist, it need the player to use its skill to gain the materials or at least go out of his way to find them, only then he is allowed to craft, not only that, but it also makes the player want to see what they got from their hard work, example - Castlevania: Curse of Darkness(it gives the player a drop of materials, but more often then not the player has to steal it to make the more interesting equipment), Monster Hunter series(its part of what made the games so great).

Another point really important is(like i said earlier) the implementation, as it can kill even the most fun crafting system, like my favorite example, the Summon night: swordcraft story on the gba(the first one) it uses a more alchemical crafting, basically every thing is made of 6 elements:
Fire|Water|Wind|Earth|Eletricity|Soul
to get them you must melt normal items into those elements(for example a canteen into some water elements, or a matchstick into fire ones) to forge your weapons, it worked almost like a recipe book(you found recipes in some places and they would say the requiriment, if you had them you could forge) but the problem was the trouble you had to collect those elements, since you ended up farming a lot for somethings that gave little elements,(for example a sword that needed 25 fire and 10 earth, but the only way to get fire was by melting something that gave 3 or 4). I would really like to play something closer to that one (and like i said it really works with alchemy, just let people try to discover the recipes by brute force as well).

 

[happyninja42]

I've actually considered making an automated system for gathering materials. Instead of nodes evenly scattered across the terrain, players can find a mine or whatever and hire an NPC miner to gather materials for them automatically, for a cost. Of course, if they want to grab a pickaxe and dive in themselves they can do that too.

SWTOR did this, and I liked it a lot. I could send my companions out to do missions with resource rewards, as well as randomly farm stuff while leveling. It was especially handy to offset the gathering skills I didn't have. Like I didn't need them to find lightsaber crystals or archeological items, but the other gathering skill items that i used were damn handy for sending my guys off to go get.

 

[Gray-Philosophy]

Im a fan of well implemented Crafting systems, but for that i have to ask, what type of game you want to make? it might not seem important, but a craft system must be in synch with the theme of the game, or it will fall flat.
. . . -snip-

Of course! The game is supposed to be a multiplayer sandbox RPG.
I think the crafting I have in mind falls somewhere in between your definitions of Enhancing and Trophies. It might just be something else for the players to do besides killing things, but the true reward lies in the freedom of customization beyond "default" vendor equipment and dropped equipment, which may likely often be broken since you just killed the guy wearing it.
Not that vendor equipment will be inferior to what you can create, it'll just be limited in terms of specialized properties.

SWTOR did this, and I liked it a lot. I could send my companions out to do missions with resource rewards, as well as randomly farm stuff while leveling.
. . . -snip-

That sounds bloody brilliant, I'll try and look into that

 

[Rozalia1]

My intentions are to make the crafting a bit of a game on it's own, which is why I want to make it as entertaining and engaging as possible.
The primary benefit from crafting is really just a bit of creative freedom when it comes to putting your equipment together (appearance and such), along with some freedom in specifying item properties outside of default vendor item properties.
Ultimately crafting isn't supposed to be a necessity by any means, but rather a creative outlet for when you feel like doing something other than killing baddies.

Sounds like you need to play, or at least check out an Atelier game. Even if it isn't your cup of tea it should help you out in your own development as Atelier revolves around getting materials to craft items of variable quality with variable traits.

 

[Username Redacted]

Well, it often seems to me that crafting systems are too focussed on a heirarchy of materials

eg. iron > bronze > steel > titanium > mithril

Which is quite boring because every material works the same way, just with bigger numbers. It would be more interesting to see a crafting system where you had to decide for yourself which material had the best properties for what you were making.

I think that the one game I've encountered that handled that well is also the game I was going to recommend as a template for an above average crafting system in 'Vagrant Story'. In that game you could basically mash any two weapons or armor together, see what the result would be and then decide whether or not to proceed with the merger. While it did have some hierarchy of materials you could still cross-combine materials and the progression wasn't entirely linear.

 

[Keyhound]

the hierarchy of materials could work in a vagrant esque model indeed, but to me, since its a sandbox game, you could go a step further, and go for the mounting mechanic as well, let me explain:

in vagrant, weapons are divided in 3 parts, the blade, the hilt and the gems, you could mix blades to get diferent ones, but not the hilts or the gems, and at the end you could unite or separate weapons in those 3 parts,(but only the gems could be separated in the normal maps, the blade/hilt needed to be in the forge)

so what i would like to see is a normal forging materials, but the weapon would be crafted with those parts,(ie. forge the parts to mount later)and allow the parts to be melted for the big material, this is the big misstep most of those games makes, they dont allow the player to smelt the final product.

also it would be great to have a growing forge(i mean, with new tools for diferent forges).

and since you want to play a more minigame type of forge, why not go full forge simulator? ok let me explain:

the player would have to work the forge, lets say in the start the player is only able to get a small furnace, an anvil, and a water "bucket"(sorry forgot the name of the thing with water) so the player would only be able to make up to iron pieces, and this is how it would work, he would actvate the furnace and the minigame would start, the player then chooses how to proceed, like melt iron, then hammer the piece in the anvil,(with diferent techniques, to get diferent types of weapons, like alongate to get a sword, or broaden to get a axe, and the mix would give the diferent types of weapons) its a lot simpler than im saying really, but its kinda hard to explain in few words. it basically allow the player to forge great weapons if he decides to experiment or if he knows what he is doing...basically its like a animated password system(but the player wont even think about it like that), and if the forging is always "growing" it would allow later to smelt the iron blade you made in the beggining of the game into an iron bar, to be mixed with coal to create a steel one.

also(its the final one i promisse look at how it will affect the game as well, the strengh of the weapons, or the readyness of materials, try to get an balance for the game, or it might get too easy(or too hard).

 

[Gray-Philosophy]

Sounds like you need to play, or at least check out an Atelier game.
. . . -snip-

I think that the one game I've encountered that handled that well is also the game I was going to recommend as a template for an above average crafting system in 'Vagrant Story'.
. . . -snip-

Both of those looked pretty in-depth, definitely a lot of inspiration to be had.

the hierarchy of materials could work in a vagrant esque model indeed, but to me, since its a sandbox game, you could go a step further, and go for the mounting mechanic as well, let me explain:
. . . -snip-

A lot of good ideas! That's definitely the level of intricacy I'm going for

 

[Keyhound]

hi there, i found here a small mechanic i planned to use in a game(im always working on RPG Maker, i love to come up with ideas for mechanics, story and even quests(as well as characters), but im terrible at scripting, maping and everything else really)
its a forging mechaninc i made for a medieval setting with magic(the normal fantasy setting) basically its divided in 2 parts, the elements and the materials, unfortunately, i like to go a little deep when making those systems, it was a txt and i had to imput some extra details for it to make more sense, its a long text so bear with me:

i made a hierarchy system based on balance between the materials, and for that it had to be in synch with the magical elements, here it is:

There are 9 elements:

Force element: its not the star wars force, but simply the magical force. Its reigns the other 4 magical elements.
Fire-Water-Wind-Earth
Light: the power used by the angels, and given to the order of light(so only clerics and paladins could use)
Dark: the power of the demons, also used by the wizards and nechromancers, as well as the vampire lord.
now it gets interesting, there are also 2 extra elements i made that arent magical, they are,
Physical: basically, every hit made with a non elemental or non magical weapon or even with bare hands, even explosives are considered physical.
Eletricity: yes the power of the thunder was a natural force, and it was discovered by the alchemists.

now the materials themselves.

Copper: most basic material, its not strong enough, but does the job at earlier stages, later(with the discovery of the eletricity, it becames a major player since it gives the most bonus for eletrical weapons.
Bronze: an upgraded copper, its sacrifice part of the eletricity bonus for more physical one.
Iron: the second strongest physical bonus in the materials.
Steel: an upgraded version of iron, it is the strongest physical material, so its the matrial of choice for the most physical characters, it sacrifices magical atunement for more physical power, when compared to iron
Silver: its resonance with the soul allows better use of the soul elements(light and dark), even if it sacrifices its physical power(basically cooper but for soul magic).
Mythril: also called white steel, or holy steel, its like bronze, sacrificing some of its power, for a more physical one, its the preferred choice for paladins, specially those not strong with the light.
Gold: the sun tear, its one of the most expensive materials, but its the one with the best magical properity(even more than the wood ones i will explain later), basically cooper but for magic(the force +the other 4 elements)
Platinum: again like bronze and mithril, its a more physical material, its normaly used to make magical weapons, so its the one that most warriors want, but there are those like the barbarians that are against its use, since its not a true warriors weapon.

finally it comes to the last 6 materials:
the 3 armor only materials, also be of note that mages are slightly punished in the material category, since every one has a penalty for using them, normally its a small one, like 1-5% but when used in big sets, the penalty gets bigger, up to 25% and sometimes more, if the mage decides to sacrifice its power for an extended life, the same doesnt happens to soul elements.
Pelts/hides/scales: some of the monster drops are used for clothing by the more savage, mostly because they dont know cotton, but also because barbarians belive that they possess the soul of the animal, and that by using them they are able to harness that power...and that iron is too hot, and gold is too flashy...
Cotton: the most common material used for clothes, normally used by the lower people, and also by the not honest ones(rogues, thieves, assassins, lawyers)
Silk: the most beautifull of the 3 its also the most expensive, normally used by the mages for its magical properities(basically it doesnt punish magic users)

now the last 3, are types of wood:
Noble wood: basically the physical one, used the most for bows and arrows, as well for wooden clubs and for the handles on most weapons.

Elder Wood: the most magical one, its the one used by begginer mages, and clerics(since it also has a soul property to it) its normaly enchanted with a elemental magic stone(or the more rarer multi elemental ones) or blessed for more light power.

Dark Wood: also called Devil wood, its a type of wood that grows in dark, cursed lands, its extremily rare, and also its said to possess a soul of its own, its used by nechromancers and wizards, for more darkpowers, its normal to find at least a small trinket with them made of dark wood, the more powerfull ones even use staves made of it, and its power is noticed.

sorry for the wall of thext, but like i said, i like to go that step further when creating a system, normally making the player feel the world story when playing.

Ah! by the way, both the platinum and the mithril, are made using steel as well, so it makes sense why they are a little better than iron in its physical power. Also you might have noticed the amount of Copper like materials, and thought why i choose to do that way, its actually simple, gold is like cooper, but its magical property makes it more expensive (waaaaay more) so begginer mages are "forced" to use wood in the beggining, with small amounts of amulets and rings made of gold for that more power, this has 2 reasons.

The first is that mages must be more powerfull than the others, but if you can "control" their power up in some way it will feel more balanced, and diferent in gameplay, so each class would feel diferent both in its gameplay, and its goals(and the player will understand why the mages are more "gold hungry" than even the rogues) for example, a group of 4 players, a mage a cleric a warrior and a rogue, are in a party, they got some money from a quest, now they must choose how to upgrade their power, do they focus on powering up the mage first for more powerfull spells? or replenish the rogue's neverending need for new , disposable, gear? or go a safer route by tanking the warrior with the best armor their money can buy? but they cant forget that the cleric is also able to tank well(just not as good) , but he needs to make donations to the order for blessings of the most diferent types, they are cheap, but will only last for a couple of hours, also they are diverse and the cleric must choose wich one he wants to use, wich saint he wants to donate to. Also each silver item must be blessed at a temple of light, before its considered a holly weapon, and those found with the dark ways, must be cleansed first as well(but its a little bit more expensive) kinda like the iron items found in forgotten places, like ruins, or even being used by the undead(but they only need a good wheatstone, or a trip to the blacksmith).


so thats it, my advice would be to let the players choose how to proceed(in a more tactical level), and the games gets that much more engaiging, at least on paper...lol