Create a hostile faction in a modern fps

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Treblaine

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Arfonious said:
Treblaine said:
Arfonious said:
America would make for a great enemy

Like a capitalist Nazi-Germany sort of thing
Yeah, because Nazi Germany was known for electing a black President and legalising gay marriage in so many states.

It's easy to rag on America... but it doesn't make any sense.

America is a lot of things, but Fascist it isn't. It's far more like the British empire, idealistic intervention that escalates out of control.

And by the way, jsut in case you thought you were being original, a LONG list of games where Americans are the enemy:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/9.399451.16387378

I can't possibly think you meant "America" is the enemy, all the people, even the toddlers and infants, even those who disagree with the belligerents?

If you do, are you aware that that is in fact the approach the Nazis took in WWII to the nations it fought against?
Wow, calm down, you like America I get it.

Of course I didn't mean America as the enemy I meant the USA as a consept not every person. When people state Nazi Germany as the enemy they don't mean every toddler and infant.

I know that the land of Freedom is not really Fascist etc. I just meant that a game set in a not so distant future where USA got out of hand thing happened would be cool

And I know that I wasn't the first person to think of USA as the enemy, that would be ridiculus, I saw the list and have played most of them.
Like America? No. Not any more than, say, Australia (another country I've never even visited). I just don't like people talking nonsense and making spurious equivalence with Nazi Germany.

This isn't about liking America to any exceptional extent, I like all countries, there is not any country I categorically dislike.

WWII and Cold-war socio-political history in Europe is my expertise.

If anything were going to get "out of hand" in America from the trends today it most certainly would not be towards one monothlithic fascistic ideology, it would be increasingly fractured and diverging points of view. This should be blindingly obvious to anyone that American politics is full of constant disagreements and conflicting interests, not just from state to state but within states and from street to street.
 

Treblaine

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Akratus said:
WHAT? Seriously . . .DUDE WHAT?

I said it was an awesome cinematic, but they would be better villains if they didn't kill people that have nothing to do with what they are trying to accomplish.

Seriously . . what the fuck was that rant all about?
No, you thought it was awesome till a different type of defenceless unarmed victims were being murdered.

Take your medicine, you can either be fine with anyone being killed because herp a derp it's just a video game and fake violence is fun, or you can adapt it into some kind of context of legitimate combat, like fighting and killing truly dangerous opponents.

You're clearly taking exceptional delight in New York businessmen being murdered, but not "the man on the street".

I don't know whay you think words mean but you said without Qualification it was Awesome when just the Businessmen were being targeted. If you are now realising what an awful thing that is, don't complain to me for calling you out on it, just delet your post and apologise for going overboard.

I mean how old were you when 9/11 happened? When terrorists targeted business people in the World Trade Centre? And the resulting carnage killed thousands? Have any clue the ramifications of that event and how they so clearly relate to the fictional events in the video in question.

if they didn't kill people that have nothing to do with what they are trying to accomplish.
But that's what terrorists DO. They terrorise people killing and maiming so many till they get what they want. You think that if they are insane enough to think a book-manufacturer accountant deserves to be strapped with explosives and defenestrated, that that insane ideology won't spread to targeting other people.
 

Treblaine

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rhizhim said:
that game doesnt really represent the 99% movement, you are getting yourself rilled up for nothing.

i said the "99%" as a joke on the op's saying "that would not count as a minority in the western world."

these guys in the video game are just terrorists (rainbow six games were all about anti terror / swat groups fighting kidnapers and terrorists.)

and like the al Quaida and every other terrorist organisation in existence (even the "american revolution"), they are acting under the umbrella of either religion or an "ideal" to "justify" pushing their own agendas through violence.

and people are not rooting for these madmen as much as you think.

hell, seeing the Concept Gameplay video doesnt leave any sane person romantise root with the "patriots"


and, really? do you think an orchestrated terrorist attack wouldn't include a proper research on who is a "evil" banker for company x and who is just a publisher for children books in general?

Akratus said:
That is awesome, except for when they detonate the bomb in public. It's as thought they're adding evil to them just to get you not to root for them, or just not want to kill them enough.
it is awesome because it has so many potentials as to show why terror can be so complex and it doesnt necessarily involve brown people being angry at others because they believe in something else, rather people who might have indulged themselves in a twisted worldview and think of themselves, they are doing the right thing for the greater good.

just like this guy
thought he could "shake awake the sheeple" by commiting an atrocity.

please watch the Rainbow Six Patriots Concept Gameplay i provided above and you'll see that it doesnt really give you any "space" to really root for the "patriots".
btw. poor bastard in the concept video..
Well the other person thought it was "awesome" except the killing of guys on the street... clealry showing his preference for murdering businessmen. And he's not the only one I've ever heard take that stance and the Occupy Movement have had to do a lot of self exclusion of these extremist elements and are rightly PISSED THE FUCK OFF how their extremist ideology are poisoning the work of their moralistic activism.

and, really? do you think an orchestrated terrorist attack wouldn't include a proper research on who is a "evil" banker
No, I really think they wouldn't. Because that IS the fracking precedent set by terrorists.

You think Al Qaeda were selective when they crashed two commercial jets into the World Trade Centre buildings? You think the Red Army Faction targeted anyone other than those who they could kidnap and who were most high profile?

See when these groups become extreme enough to think it's appropriate to HORRIBLY MURDER PEOPLE for things like tax avoidance, then they aren't going to be specific to individuals, they'll see the whole group of "suits" as all being the target of their wrath. That is the way terrorists work, their destructive hatred is targeted at groups.

Don't post that picture of Breivik again... he isn't Voldemort, you can say his name and not treat him like a dragon.

That's the thing with Breivik, he doesn't represent any political movement in Norway, he is just one extremely twisted and deluded psychopath. He's not even the head of a movement that he is manipulating, he is one of only a couple individuals in all of Europe who think terror is the path and these people aren't talking to each other. That's because on the sale of sensibility, they are outliers on the side of extreme delusion and muddled thinking. And the thing is these people, they do NOT work in groups, they only really function writing and reading their own rambling manifesto because they can't convince a single god damn person of anything.

involve brown people being angry at others
People don't dumb down things like the English Civil War as "white people angry at each other" so don't do it here, no one does. The only time I ever heard things being summarised as that way is by people objecting to other people apparently doing that... when they don't.

they are doing the right thing for the greater good.
What happens is the "means to the end" of the "greater good" becomes the "end in itself".

It's like socialism is great, leads to the greater good of stopping the people in power exploiting and abusing people, then massive state control and domination becomes the means to that end then becomes the end in itself, completely losing focus on the final result.

Just look at North Korea, where people are being brutalised because they didn't cry hard enough at the demise of their dear leader, or
 

Treblaine

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Akratus said:
I like them as villains, I don't support the fucking worldview of fictional terrorists, where the fuck are you getting this from?
Yeah, but the problem was you liked them as villains ONLY when they were brutalising businessmen.

You've got to realise how that make it seem on WHY you like them as villians. I mean it doesn't seem you like them as villains because they do bad things, because they do a bad thing and it is a downside to you. But a bad thing to someone other than businessmen.
 

Treblaine

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Akratus said:
AGAIN you are taking my worlds and giving them a different meaning. Stop making this political. I JUST thought it was awesome IN THE SENSE THAT IT WAS A WELL MADE VIDEO AND I THINK THEY WOULD BE GREAT VILLAINS TO FIGHT IN A GAME, BUT I WOULD LIKE IT MORE IF THEY WERE MORALLY AMBIGIOUS RATHER THAN GOING ON KILLING SPREES. GEE, I LIKE GAMES THAT AREN'T COMPLETELY BLACK AND WHITE AND GIVE YOU OTHER REASONS TO HATE VILLAINS THAN EVIL ACTIONS USELESS IN THE STORY. JESUS CHRIST!!
What?

You mean it isn't "black and white" on whether the terrorists are evil if they strap a suicide vest to a defenceless man and throw him out of a window?!?!?

That's as black and white as it get... of wait, but the terrorist is doing this all in the name of a popular political ideology. No. That is uttelry 100% wrongheaded that there is any kinds of moral ambiguity for an unforgivable crime just because it happens to be done in the name of your ideas on reform of the economic system.

No, it was black and white and they were evil when they started executing businessmen, not suddenly when the "crossed the line" of slaughtering non-businessmen. There is no moral ambiguity. The victims just happen to be a group that people have some issues with that are really quite trivial compared to such a horrific murder.

I'm not changing the meaning of your words, I am exposing how utterly wrong your approach is and that may not have been your intention but it wasn't because of manipulation of words, it's due to extremely unethical approaches to righteous violence.
 

Treblaine

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Akratus said:
Treblaine said:
Akratus said:
I like them as villains, I don't support the fucking worldview of fictional terrorists, where the fuck are you getting this from?
Yeah, but the problem was you liked them as villains ONLY when they were brutalising businessmen.

You've got to realise how that make it seem on WHY you like them as villians. I mean it doesn't seem you like them as villains because they do bad things, because they do a bad thing and it is a downside to you. But a bad thing to someone other than businessmen.
Liking =/= anything else. I like to play Nazi's in Company of Heroes, does that make me a nazi?
There is a difference.

It's like the difference between playing the Germans in WWII where they fought the Americans and British according to the rules of war.

And the difference from liking to play the Germans in a Death Camp simulator.

See, they're different thing, one is an unconscionable and unethical crime and nothing else, the other is just the tactics of 1940's infantry warfare where it's belligerent verses belligerent, kill or be killed, it's not exactly nice but they are going into this with agreed intentions of defeating each other militarily.

You like the terrorist there when they are specifically committing a horrifically brutal crime of murdering a defenceless old man.

You can admire the Wehrmacht for their prowess on the battlefield, but it's another thing to admire the Gestapo when observing them commit their worse crimes.
 

tahrey

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HannesPascal said:
Thing is I can't really make up who you should shoot in these games it's not like anyone would accept that Denmark started to conquer the world and you have to stop them.
Why not? That would be awesome. You could build a whole storyline about how they'd been biding their time as an apparently small player on the world stage, when really an extremist right wing faction had infiltrated the government and quietly grabbed some crucial reins of power... building up a massive war chest (from, I dunno, diverting the revenue from bridge tolls between Germany and Sweden, or taxes on butter cookies and premium lager, or secretly mining for gold and uranium in Greenland, or...), then used it (and various recent cutting edge technologies - 3D printing, dense supercomputer matrices made from smartphone chips and sensors, quadrotor drones, graphene, non-newtonian fluid armour, kilowatt lasers, suitcase EMPs etc) to develop a great arsenal of advanced weaponry ... maybe some metal gear/gundam type shit, who knows... recruiting footsoldiers from impressionable and easily swayed sectors of society... launching a blitz-style coup d'etat when the time came, and immediately launching a campaign to conquer western europe and from there the world.

If your plan and your weapon systems are integrated and fast enough, you could be bringing the rain on the capital city of every last one of the 40-odd sovereign states within the geographic borders of the Mediterranean, Atlantic, arctic ice cap and the Urals within the span of a working day. Denmark is actually fairly handy for that - the Alps and Pyrenees are a bit of a pain to get over in order to hit Spain, Portugal, Italy, etc, but not that much, and you could have sleeper cells anyway. All you need to build a few local giant robots is a tall enough warehouse in a little-trafficked part of town, a suitably large reprap, some diplomatic bags (or a light aircraft doing airdrops) full of plutonium fuel for their micro-reactors, a few willing operatives and a minor cash injection after all...

Kick off at 8.30 local, just as the EU is on its way to work (either setting out, mid-commute, or just settling in at their desk, and no-one paying a great deal of attention to breaking news stories), grab control of the government within an hour of the doors of beaurocracy opening for business and before they can effectively raise the alarm, and then launch your shock troops across the continent. Flatten the seats of power of much of the G20 within a couple hours more, batting jet planes out of the sky. Chaos rains, whilst much of the populace is still hacking away oblivious at work until the more twitter-obsessed person in the office drops by saying that they're getting a lot of strange reports off their timeline and it might be worth nipping down to the canteen and having them switch the TV over from The Hits to News24...

By 5pm, most of the significant army bases that could have mounted any kind of serious defence are smoking craters, and the union is in serious disarray, and effectively destroyed. Martial law imposed. TV and radio stations taken over. Everyone except essential healthcare staff ordered back to their homes under curfew... monitored using nightvision and infrared, or just keeping a lookout for torches, as all the street lights are turned off.

Population databases seized and used to rapidly identify and round up or just plain execute undesirables (given my chosen setting, this would turn the usual current trope on its head by the civilians singled out for massacre =being= those which a uber-right-wing nutjob would assume of being a filthy terrorist within a second of catching sight of them, or even just their name - both those who actually ARE, and the innocents who are the fourth generation of their family to live peacefully in the same once-white-bread town) before word can even get out that they need to find somewhere to hide. A second holocaust, but instead of dragging out over six years it swings rapidly into action within the first day, with a bodycount that would make a 1980s Hollywood action film director wince within 72 hours. Stormtroopers raised on a diet of FPSes sent out to claim headshots on a long list of people, with their addresses. How many n00bs might you pwn over the course of a five minute deathmatch? Now multiply that by a small but determined army of stormtroops, "working" in 8-hour shifts... 24/7. With poorly armed, poorly trained, unarmoured, largely unsuspecting opponents cowering with their families. The ethnic cleansing of the 90s Balkan conflict, or even the current Syrian civil war would look like a playground argument.

Though most lines of communication out of the continent would have been cut as part of the first wave of attack (not particularly hard to bombard the undersea/mountain pass cable hookup depots), word would naturally get out across the globe quite quickly; the cessation of normal business alone would draw a lot of attention. Such audacious tyranny cannot be allowed to stand unchallenged. The remaining members of NATO and other organisations, including parts of Russia and the former USSR not physically occupied or otherwise affected, go into emergency conference to try to come up with some plan of action. The few spy shots they actually manage to get, before all vantage points are covered, and overflying planes and satellites are taken out with laser shots, show unknown and alarmingly advanced types of weaponry, including entire classes that have not been previously seen outside of comic books. Obviously, this shit is fucking serious. The war on terror is abandoned in order to bring all possible troops and weapons to bear. A few raggedy terrorists hiding in desert caves are chickenfeed in comparison. In fact, even a few hasty alliances are forged with said guerilla fighters, who aren't exactly optimistic about their own prospects should the Danish Aryan steamroller start to roll their way, but have unique skills of their own to offer. Planes, tanks, ships are modified with experimental, duct taped and jerry rigged countermeasures against the new weapons - for once, the United States, China and the remaining Russian forces are on the back foot, even when allied together and with all the nations of Asia, Africa, South America and Oceania, thanks to the unique and overwhelming offensive power even of the otherwise quite small Army Of The New Danish Empire.

And so you are dropped into this narrative at the start of the first United Global Liberation Force offensive against the NDE, landing in... oh, let's say Cork, in Ireland, in an attempt to secure some kind of defensible base of operations which at least has the natural barrier of the ocean to allow a little more notice of impending attack than might be had from a guy on a hilltop 20 miles away popping up to take a few people out with his laser cannon then disappearing again, as might be felt trying to infiltrate via a more landlocked border...

Damn, man. Someone get me whatever the literary equivalent of a patent is on this shit, I feel a "first novel" coming on. Or maybe an elevator pitch for a triple-A FPS-creatin' studio. After all, it can't be worse than Daikatana. Or Kane and Lynch. Or Steel Batallion...


Backtracking down the ideas tree, perhaps instead it might even be the place where Terminators or the "Screamers" (for you classic sci-fi/horror short story fans) were ACTUALLY first developed and start to spread from? Something like that? Or ground zero for some domestic terrorists launching a biological attack using some incredibly potent prion-esque virus. Maybe not one that creates zombies (seriously, that's played out), but quite possibly one that mucks about with your DNA and body structure in other ways... and can lie dormant in soil or on surfaces for days or weeks whilst still being infectious. So you have to go in with a biosuit to try and clear up the quarantine areas as each attack is launched (eventually spreading outside the country's borders) and also attempt to flush out and neutralise the culprits, and secure/carefully destroy their remaining stocks of the stuff.

You've got a potential imaginative goldmine sitting there and you're so willing to just chuck it away. Why not Zoidb... er, Denmark? Does it have to be either dusky terrorists or a present-day superpower every time? Just look at how the global map of empire and power bases has shifted over the last 200 years; why can't it shift a little more in an unexpected direction in the next 50, for a near-future speculative storyline?

Damn, I wish I was in a position of more creative influence, I'd so steal that tiny grain of an idea and then run with it hard and long.

In fact, I'm saving this to a timestamped text file just in case some game using it comes up in five years' time, so I can say I Told You So, Look They're Nicking My Idea.
 

Kathinka

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tahrey said:
HannesPascal said:
Thing is I can't really make up who you should shoot in these games it's not like anyone would accept that Denmark started to conquer the world and you have to stop them.
Why not? That would be awesome. You could build a whole storyline about how they'd been biding their time as an apparently small player on the world stage, when really an extremist right wing faction had infiltrated the government and quietly grabbed some crucial reins of power... building up a massive war chest (from, I dunno, diverting the revenue from bridge tolls between Germany and Sweden, or taxes on butter cookies and premium lager, or secretly mining for gold and uranium in Greenland, or...), then used it (and various recent cutting edge technologies - 3D printing, dense supercomputer matrices made from smartphone chips and sensors, quadrotor drones, graphene, non-newtonian fluid armour, kilowatt lasers, suitcase EMPs etc) to develop a great arsenal of advanced weaponry ... maybe some metal gear/gundam type shit, who knows... recruiting footsoldiers from impressionable and easily swayed sectors of society... launching a blitz-style coup d'etat when the time came, and immediately launching a campaign to conquer western europe and from there the world.

If your plan and your weapon systems are integrated and fast enough, you could be bringing the rain on the capital city of every last one of the 40-odd sovereign states within the geographic borders of the Mediterranean, Atlantic, arctic ice cap and the Urals within the span of a working day. Denmark is actually fairly handy for that - the Alps and Pyrenees are a bit of a pain to get over in order to hit Spain, Portugal, Italy, etc, but not that much, and you could have sleeper cells anyway. All you need to build a few local giant robots is a tall enough warehouse in a little-trafficked part of town, a suitably large reprap, some diplomatic bags (or a light aircraft doing airdrops) full of plutonium fuel for their micro-reactors, a few willing operatives and a minor cash injection after all...

Kick off at 8.30 local, just as the EU is on its way to work (either setting out, mid-commute, or just settling in at their desk, and no-one paying a great deal of attention to breaking news stories), grab control of the government within an hour of the doors of beaurocracy opening for business and before they can effectively raise the alarm, and then launch your shock troops across the continent. Flatten the seats of power of much of the G20 within a couple hours more, batting jet planes out of the sky. Chaos rains, whilst much of the populace is still hacking away oblivious at work until the more twitter-obsessed person in the office drops by saying that they're getting a lot of strange reports off their timeline and it might be worth nipping down to the canteen and having them switch the TV over from The Hits to News24...

By 5pm, most of the significant army bases that could have mounted any kind of serious defence are smoking craters, and the union is in serious disarray, and effectively destroyed. Martial law imposed. TV and radio stations taken over. Everyone except essential healthcare staff ordered back to their homes under curfew... monitored using nightvision and infrared, or just keeping a lookout for torches, as all the street lights are turned off.

Population databases seized and used to rapidly identify and round up or just plain execute undesirables (given my chosen setting, this would turn the usual current trope on its head by the civilians singled out for massacre =being= those which a uber-right-wing nutjob would assume of being a filthy terrorist within a second of catching sight of them, or even just their name - both those who actually ARE, and the innocents who are the fourth generation of their family to live peacefully in the same once-white-bread town) before word can even get out that they need to find somewhere to hide. A second holocaust, but instead of dragging out over six years it swings rapidly into action within the first day, with a bodycount that would make a 1980s Hollywood action film director wince within 72 hours. Stormtroopers raised on a diet of FPSes sent out to claim headshots on a long list of people, with their addresses. How many n00bs might you pwn over the course of a five minute deathmatch? Now multiply that by a small but determined army of stormtroops, "working" in 8-hour shifts... 24/7. With poorly armed, poorly trained, unarmoured, largely unsuspecting opponents cowering with their families. The ethnic cleansing of the 90s Balkan conflict, or even the current Syrian civil war would look like a playground argument.

Though most lines of communication out of the continent would have been cut as part of the first wave of attack (not particularly hard to bombard the undersea/mountain pass cable hookup depots), word would naturally get out across the globe quite quickly; the cessation of normal business alone would draw a lot of attention. Such audacious tyranny cannot be allowed to stand unchallenged. The remaining members of NATO and other organisations, including parts of Russia and the former USSR not physically occupied or otherwise affected, go into emergency conference to try to come up with some plan of action. The few spy shots they actually manage to get, before all vantage points are covered, and overflying planes and satellites are taken out with laser shots, show unknown and alarmingly advanced types of weaponry, including entire classes that have not been previously seen outside of comic books. Obviously, this shit is fucking serious. The war on terror is abandoned in order to bring all possible troops and weapons to bear. A few raggedy terrorists hiding in desert caves are chickenfeed in comparison. In fact, even a few hasty alliances are forged with said guerilla fighters, who aren't exactly optimistic about their own prospects should the Danish Aryan steamroller start to roll their way, but have unique skills of their own to offer. Planes, tanks, ships are modified with experimental, duct taped and jerry rigged countermeasures against the new weapons - for once, the United States, China and the remaining Russian forces are on the back foot, even when allied together and with all the nations of Asia, Africa, South America and Oceania, thanks to the unique and overwhelming offensive power even of the otherwise quite small Army Of The New Danish Empire.

And so you are dropped into this narrative at the start of the first United Global Liberation Force offensive against the NDE, landing in... oh, let's say Cork, in Ireland, in an attempt to secure some kind of defensible base of operations which at least has the natural barrier of the ocean to allow a little more notice of impending attack than might be had from a guy on a hilltop 20 miles away popping up to take a few people out with his laser cannon then disappearing again, as might be felt trying to infiltrate via a more landlocked border...

Damn, man. Someone get me whatever the literary equivalent of a patent is on this shit, I feel a "first novel" coming on. Or maybe an elevator pitch for a triple-A FPS-creatin' studio. After all, it can't be worse than Daikatana. Or Kane and Lynch. Or Steel Batallion...


Backtracking down the ideas tree, perhaps instead it might even be the place where Terminators or the "Screamers" (for you classic sci-fi/horror short story fans) were ACTUALLY first developed and start to spread from? Something like that? Or ground zero for some domestic terrorists launching a biological attack using some incredibly potent prion-esque virus. Maybe not one that creates zombies (seriously, that's played out), but quite possibly one that mucks about with your DNA and body structure in other ways... and can lie dormant in soil or on surfaces for days or weeks whilst still being infectious. So you have to go in with a biosuit to try and clear up the quarantine areas as each attack is launched (eventually spreading outside the country's borders) and also attempt to flush out and neutralise the culprits, and secure/carefully destroy their remaining stocks of the stuff.

You've got a potential imaginative goldmine sitting there and you're so willing to just chuck it away. Why not Zoidb... er, Denmark? Does it have to be either dusky terrorists or a present-day superpower every time? Just look at how the global map of empire and power bases has shifted over the last 200 years; why can't it shift a little more in an unexpected direction in the next 50, for a near-future speculative storyline?

Damn, I wish I was in a position of more creative influence, I'd so steal that tiny grain of an idea and then run with it hard and long.

In fact, I'm saving this to a timestamped text file just in case some game using it comes up in five years' time, so I can say I Told You So, Look They're Nicking My Idea.
i want this game now, and i will so pay 60 euros for it.
 

Treblaine

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Akratus said:
I said it would be LESS black and white. From a narrative perspect they would be more logical, and thus they'd be better and more realistic villains.
*Less* black and white?!??

You really expect people to believe that explanation?
 

Arfonious

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Treblaine said:
Like America? No. Not any more than, say, Australia (another country I've never even visited). I just don't like people talking nonsense and making spurious equivalence with Nazi Germany.

This isn't about liking America to any exceptional extent, I like all countries, there is not any country I categorically dislike.

WWII and Cold-war socio-political history in Europe is my expertise.

If anything were going to get "out of hand" in America from the trends today it most certainly would not be towards one monothlithic fascistic ideology, it would be increasingly fractured and diverging points of view. This should be blindingly obvious to anyone that American politics is full of constant disagreements and conflicting interests, not just from state to state but within states and from street to street.
I didn't say it had to be realistic from todays political point of wiew, just that they would make for a good villain.

There is not a deep political meaning in everything.
 

Treblaine

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Arfonious said:
I didn't say it had to be realistic from todays political point of wiew, just that they would make for a good villain.

There is not a deep political meaning in everything.
OK then, HOW would the United States make for a good villain? If this isn't political, so don't give me any of your personal political issues.
 

Arfonious

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Treblaine said:
Arfonious said:
I didn't say it had to be realistic from todays political point of wiew, just that they would make for a good villain.

There is not a deep political meaning in everything.
OK then, HOW would the United States make for a good villain? If this isn't political, so don't give me any of your personal political issues.
Because they have a big and powerful military and seeing things from the underdogs perspective would be nice sometimes.
 

Treblaine

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Arfonious said:
Treblaine said:
Arfonious said:
I didn't say it had to be realistic from todays political point of wiew, just that they would make for a good villain.

There is not a deep political meaning in everything.
OK then, HOW would the United States make for a good villain? If this isn't political, so don't give me any of your personal political issues.
Because they have a big and powerful military and seeing things from the underdogs perspective would be nice sometimes.
No, the US military isn't exceptionally big and powerful, it's redundant and expensive. Here's a look at how things get the way they are and to spite this being a dramatisation the numbers and details are all accurate:



They literally spend 1000 times as much for something that is less effective. I must point out, loading a troop compartment with 25mm explosive shells, means anything that penetrates the thin aluminium armour won't just create one or two casualties that may live, and the vehicle may be repaired... it'll burn and explode killing almost everyone inside and totally destroying the vehicle.

This puts into context the huge military expenditure of the US.

And don't even get me started on fighter jet procurement.

And this has been the case with the US military since WWII, where frontline commanders withheld the introduction of the Pershing Tank, a tank that could have totally overcome the threat of superior German tanks, all because they were so wed to the pre-war ideology of infantry-tanks and OPEN TOPPED tank destroyers. If the Germans hadn't run out of fuel the Americans would have been completely overrun, instead they were only occasionally overrun.

The US military constantly has a manpower shortage as conscription has become politically impossible and adequate retention of trained soldiers is untenable.

The thing is we've had American military forces as opponents in games DOZENS of times before. Half Life - the cornerstone of FPS gaming - had the US Marine Corps as the principal organised antagonist. And what was the big difference? How was it any different than if Black Mesa had been invaded by the Russian Spetznaz or the Chinese?

I can think of only one good gameplay reason to have American Military as the opponents, as they'll drop popular American weapons like M16s and M203 grenade launchers, that are so popular and ripe for gameplay design. I suppose it's also slightly more plausible they'll be giving commands and exclamations in English, and considering how many people know English this can be useful from a gameplay perspective of the added tactical element of guessing what the enemy is doing by what they yell. Like "fire in the hole" is telegraphing the move they're about to throw a grenade at you.

Frankly I think that this is much more about Politicised impressions of who the underdog is rather than who actually is.