Credit Card Breach May Cost Sony $24 Billion

[poiuppx]

Shit, this is a bad time to have a PS3. How much you want to bet Microsoft is absolutely ecstatic about this?

I wonder about that. I mean, if I were a multi-billion dollar organization competing with another multi-billion dollar organization and my competitor just had a massive security breach I might be having a nice long chat with the security people about making sure our systems are all nice and up to date...

Sony was warned that they were under threat from hackers just prior. infact they took down the PSN what a week before? that takedown gave the information needed to breach the PSN. someone in anon went rogue and thought they could get something out of it and used the data collected from the anon attack to get into the PSN and start collecting data. but it wasnt anon that did it, just a rogue member. wikileaks are full of rogue members in one way, then theres the always fun fired IT still has complete and total access to a network. simply put its not anons fault but purely SONY! they new hackers were attacking them. they were straight up told that they better protect everything. SONY completly screwed the pooch on this and MS was watching the whole time and had IT pouring over security when Sony was first told they are now a target. MS knows its always a target and when a threat comes to a competitor they know to start covering bases.

MS is ecstatic over this, you betcha!

I question that, honestly. The issue is, with something this wide reaching, you can't predict the halo effect. Consumer confidence after this could shoot way down low for all parties, especially the more casual gamers who don't have that much invested in this hobby. Scare them badly enough, they won't change consoles or go PC... they'll leave. For keeps. And that's bad for business, period.

Ecstatic? Doubt it. Looking to make DAMN sure first that their own security is tighter than ever in case a copycat gets some funny ideas, and second to forestall any bad PR that could leak onto their side, so THEY don't lose business too? Much more likely. The only one popping a champagne cork tonight is the hacker. May he choke on it and die.

 

[Veloxe]

Shit, this is a bad time to have a PS3. How much you want to bet Microsoft is absolutely ecstatic about this?

I wonder about that. I mean, if I were a multi-billion dollar organization competing with another multi-billion dollar organization and my competitor just had a massive security breach I might be having a nice long chat with the security people about making sure our systems are all nice and up to date...

Sony was warned that they were under threat from hackers just prior. infact they took down the PSN what a week before? that takedown gave the information needed to breach the PSN. someone in anon went rogue and thought they could get something out of it and used the data collected from the anon attack to get into the PSN and start collecting data. but it wasnt anon that did it, just a rogue member. wikileaks are full of rogue members in one way, then theres the always fun fired IT still has complete and total access to a network. simply put its not anons fault but purely SONY! they new hackers were attacking them. they were straight up told that they better protect everything. SONY completly screwed the pooch on this and MS was watching the whole time and had IT pouring over security when Sony was first told they are now a target. MS knows its always a target and when a threat comes to a competitor they know to start covering bases.

MS is ecstatic over this, you betcha!

That's nice and everything, except it's mostly speculation. Did they break into Sony and get the information? Yes. Did Sony sit back with their feet up the whole time while they were threatened and under attack? I doubt it. In fact they probably had their people running around watching the system to try to prevent something like this from happening. Unfortunately they didn't but I'm also sure they didn't sit there, grab a beer, and watch what was happening from 20 feet back over the past couple weeks. Could they have done more? Sure, that's the story every time something goes wrong anywhere because hind sight is 50-50.

But right now, the security people at microsoft are still pouring over their stuff, trying to analyze the Sony situation to see if any of their holes exist in the Live platform, and praying to god that someone doesn't come for them next. I'm sure the people in the marketing section are going to be having a blast with the possibility to bring more people over the the 360 though.

 

[oldtaku]

Sony deserves to be in a world of hurt for this, but just scaling the numbers like that is silly.

 

[erztez]

So, wait... been following your screed through this thread, and I'm puzzled. You don't like the current console generation or the companies behind them. You don't like successful third-party companies. You don't like Apple, whose mobile smartphones and tablet computers have created strong viable inroads for indie developers. And you're a part of the industry.

So... do you work purely on PC related games, or Wii titles? Either way, methinks your bias is showing, wishing death and/or vanishment upon everyone else. Believe it or not, this isn't a matter that is going to just affect Sony. You should be damned worried about your livelihood, which likely depended on a lot of casual gamers that will be scared away, some for keeps, after hearing about all this. THAT, if your tale about being in the industry has any worth at all, is what should be worrying you and inciting your rage right now. Consumer confidence has a halo effect, and a major hack like this is going to send it plummeting for the industry, not just for your hated enemy, the PS3.

That's right, I don't.
Oh, I don't mind successful companies, third or first-party, as long as they're not being dicks about it(EA, ActiBlizz, Sony...). For one, I'm totally fine with Valve.
Damn right I don't like Apple, their mobile smartphones and ONE tablet computer which is just an upscaled phone without the ability to call people, are ridiculously overpriced, locked up the wazoo and otherwise crap. Apple has created NOTHING 'cept some shiny casings and ads, hell they even stole OSX from Xerox.

Nope, while I do prefer working on PC titles, I don't care what I sell, your damn fault for buying it, I just try to influence my own side of the business to occasionally try out an innovation or two, and give the devs at least some measure of freedom.
So...Sony, the publisher that strangles everything in their sight, going down is not actually a problem for me, it's an opportunity. Think of all those suddenly independent devs looking for home...
As for the confidence issue...your average casual gamer has the attention span of your average Fox News viewer - about 1 picosecond. Investors, on the other hand...
And, as I've clearly stated several times before, I've got nothing against the PS3. I own one.
And that's the point. I didn't lease it. I didn't rent it. I didn't borrow it. I did't license it. I BOUGHT IT. I OWN IT. Sony doesn't get to tell me what I can and cannot do with it. If I want to smash it to bits with a sledgehammer, that's my choice. If I want to make it run Linux, or Dos, or BOS/360, it's my goddamn right. They can take away the warranty if they wan't, but they can't intentionally CRIPPLE the console after I buy it.

 

[Skops]

Uh, guys?

I hate to bring everyone down to earth here for just a moment:

Spoiler

Just in case anyone missed the Q&A on the blog



Quote from the Q&A for the lazy:



"Q: Was my personal data encrypted?



A: All of the data was protected, and access was restricted both physically and through the perimeter and security of the network. The entire credit card table was encrypted and we have no evidence that credit card data was taken. The personal data table, which is a separate data set, was not encrypted, but was, of course, behind a very sophisticated security system that was breached in a malicious attack."

can we be done with this now? Overreacting, pretending like this will 'end, not only the PS3, but Sony as a company' bullshit now?

Grow up. If you're really that paranoid, change your credit card number. This lawsuit isn't going anywhere, just like the gas pedal fiasco with Toyota (who were found not guilty in all charges against them through hundreds of cases). And let's remember, people actually died during those incidents.

But I guess this is media now, no one wants to hear good news. Bad news is all the rage!

 

[poiuppx]

So, wait... been following your screed through this thread, and I'm puzzled. You don't like the current console generation or the companies behind them. You don't like successful third-party companies. You don't like Apple, whose mobile smartphones and tablet computers have created strong viable inroads for indie developers. And you're a part of the industry.

So... do you work purely on PC related games, or Wii titles? Either way, methinks your bias is showing, wishing death and/or vanishment upon everyone else. Believe it or not, this isn't a matter that is going to just affect Sony. You should be damned worried about your livelihood, which likely depended on a lot of casual gamers that will be scared away, some for keeps, after hearing about all this. THAT, if your tale about being in the industry has any worth at all, is what should be worrying you and inciting your rage right now. Consumer confidence has a halo effect, and a major hack like this is going to send it plummeting for the industry, not just for your hated enemy, the PS3.

That's right, I don't.
Oh, I don't mind successful companies, third or first-party, as long as they're not being dicks about it(EA, ActiBlizz, Sony...). For one, I'm totally fine with Valve.
Damn right I don't like Apple, their mobile smartphones and ONE tablet computer which is just an upscaled phone without the ability to call people, are ridiculously overpriced, locked up the wazoo and otherwise crap. Apple has created NOTHING 'cept some shiny casings and ads, hell they even stole OSX from Xerox.

Nope, while I do prefer working on PC titles, I don't care what I sell, your damn fault for buying it, I just try to influence my own side of the business to occasionally try out an innovation or two, and give the devs at least some measure of freedom.
So...Sony, the publisher that strangles everything in their sight, going down is not actually a problem for me, it's an opportunity. Think of all those suddenly independent devs looking for home...
As for the confidence issue...your average casual gamer has the attention span of your average Fox News viewer - about 1 picosecond. Investors, on the other hand...
And, as I've clearly stated several times before, I've got nothing against the PS3. I own one.
And that's the point. I didn't lease it. I didn't rent it. I didn't borrow it. I did't license it. I BOUGHT IT. I OWN IT. Sony doesn't get to tell me what I can and cannot do with it. If I want to smash it to bits with a sledgehammer, that's my choice. If I want to make it run Linux, or Dos, or BOS/360, it's my goddamn right. They can take away the warranty if they wan't, but they can't intentionally CRIPPLE the console after I buy it.

...and now we get to the heart of it. You want them to crash and burn because they removed OtherOS. You want them to die painfully because they tried to sue the folks who sought to crack the system and return OtherOS capabilities (suppossedly, I mean, come on, what OTHER reason would you have to jailbreak a console- ohhhh...). And as a result, you actually think THIS... THIS is a means to an end, that the potential ruination of lives, mass invasion of privacy, identity theft... all of that is worthwhile for the 70 mil plus who use or have used the PSN, just so Sony... what? Learns its lesson? So that you can laugh while they crash and burn?

News flash; if this brings down the SCEA, say goodbye to the industry as we know it. Nintendo and Microsoft will stick it out, assuming they don't get hit equally hard 'just because', but no one will fill the void. No one will want to take the fiscal risk of this happening to them. Hell, if it does bring down the SCEA, I wouldn't blame Microsoft if it took a long hard look at console gaming and considered whether it wanted to be in this industry at all.

Is that really what you want? A choked off industry, with basically no one left standing but Nintendo for the home console market? Do you really want us to go back to 1987, for crying out loud? Would so severe a gutting of the industry actually make you, what, feel good inside? That's not a field for creating 'innovation' or 'freedom', that's an easy road to a heavily lock-down monopoly, where your choices are game THIS way, or don't game at all. You'll forgive me if I don't share your delight in the prospects of a scorched-earth future for the industry.

And as a side-bar? iPad. iPad2. Carve up the symantics and how little was changed if it'll make you happy. That's still plural. Saying otherwise is like saying Sony ever made only one home console, the PlayStation, because numbers and improvements don't count.

 

[Sovereignty]

That is horrible math... Whoever did that "research" and put it out as if fact should be fired. Not every account has a credit card attached, not every account with a credit card was necessarily compromised, and to assume it will be an equivalent loss per account to another incident is foolish.

It's not horrible math. When the questions and secret answers provided for password resets are compromised it puts a person at risk. All you need is 10 minutes in someones account to discover their email address, use the same questions and answers to access their email and continue the cycle til you get to information that could be used against that person.

By letting all this data go, they've effectively compromised the online identities of every person who's ever made a PSN username and password.

You have to supply an email to sign up, and most people use one password amongst all their accounts. As such it's a pretty big breach. (I am thankful I've been extremely paranoid up until this point.)

The worst part isn't for those of us posting here who are hopefully smart enough to change our passwords to our email accounts, and pick new security questions, but to the 'casual' gamers who don't even know what's going down save for the little excerpt on the 5 o'clock news.

 

[TemplateResponse]

fuck a DUCK that's high.
I bet GeoHot is laughing his arse off right now.

 

[Liudeius]

That is horrible math... Whoever did that "research" and put it out as if fact should be fired. Not every account has a credit card attached, not every account with a credit card was necessarily compromised, and to assume it will be an equivalent loss per account to another incident is foolish.

It's not horrible math. When the questions and secret answers provided for password resets are compromised it puts a person at risk. All you need is 10 minutes in someones account to discover their email address, use the same questions and answers to access their email and continue the cycle til you get to information that could be used against that person.

By letting all this data go, they've effectively compromised the online identities of every person who's ever made a PSN username and password.

You have to supply an email to sign up, and most people use one password amongst all their accounts. As such it's a pretty big breach. (I am thankful I've been extremely paranoid up until this point.)

The worst part isn't for those of us posting here who are hopefully smart enough to change our passwords to our email accounts, and pick new security questions, but to the 'casual' gamers who don't even know what's going down save for the little excerpt on the 5 o'clock news.

Notice that you never proved it wasn't horrible math. Even if you look at the original study it is clearly only overly complex averages with no reason it should at all represent Sony's costs. Also the majority of the costs are "loss of customers" so, even if it does cause Sony to lose exactly as much as they predicted, they will only have to pay about 12 billion because half the loss is future clients. However Sony won't lose money as predicted because the averages they take are no where near similar enough to this case to be accurate. Perhaps Sony will lose more, perhaps less, but if the number even resembles this estimate +-5 billion it's pure dumb luck.

All you've argued is that security breaches are risks... I don't think anyone was trying to say that having your data stolen isn't dangerous.

Also some guy up there ^ says the Sony Q&A states that there isn't even any evidence that their encrypted credit card data was stolen. So not only would the estimate be wrong, the conditions to fulfill the averages requirements wouldn't even have been reached.

 

[ALX-00]

I really hope Sony Doesn't go under, there is no way in hell I will ever buy an xbox.

 

[MelasZepheos_v1legacy]

Man Sony are so awful, they did nothing to protect their clients data, that hacker didn't even have to do any work he just waltzed in and stole all the data and now he's using it to steal all the customers money because Sony are the biggest and most evil jerks. You can hardly expect a hacker to be blamed for this, that's like saying that bank robber can be blamed because he decided to rob a bank.

Oh, wait, I sound like a fucking moron when I say things like that.

Any system is vulnerable to hacking, without exception. Sony are a massive company pulling in billions of dollars, and I seriously doubt that if there was even a chance something could go wrong to the tune of twenty four billion dollars they wouldn't have had all reasonable security in place.

We still know next to nothing about this from the opposite side. For all we know a team of dedicated hackers has been trying from day one that the PSN opened to try and break inside and steal the data, solely for the purpose of being completely douchebags, and Sony has kept them out for all these years. Or they might have tried the day before they stole the data and just got lucky.

I like how apparently everyone on the internet is clearly intelligent enough to know immediately exactly what happened when even Sony probably don't know exactly what happened yet, so when your magic powers give you clairvoyance enough to find the hackers hidden base and retrieve all the data, for great justice, let me know.

And if Sony goes down as a company, not even permanently, just think for a minute about what that would mean. Thousands of jobs undeservedly lost (people who had nothing to do with the security of PSN should not lose over this, but they will), a company that has helped shape the industry suddenly lost. It would be like if Fox Studios or Disney just folded overnight, the damage to the industry in general is impossible to determine. So everyone who really cares about gaming and it's future, maybe you should try thinking bigger than yourself for once.

 

[SomethingUnrelated]

... keep it secret, keep it safe...

Is this a reference? Because if it is, I am way chuffed that I found it.

OT: If the speculation has reached this level, then I'm going to start looking into cancelling my current card or calling my bank or something, to either solve my problem, or get advice on it. I frankly just wish this whole thing would end, though.

 

[Shoggoth2588]

I read earlier on /v/ someone said that this was gonna bankrupt Sony and most people just lol'd at his remark, now I'm not good at financing but $24 billion is a lot of fucking money and that guys comment seems a little more plausable now the figures are out.

I really don't think Sony is going to get out of this in one piece, but I hope that this scenerio works out for the best for them and that the people responsible are caught.

If Sony was nothing but a gaming company they would already be dead. This will deal a huge blow to Sony but they still produce/ manufacture computers, televisions, cameras, camcorders, E-Readers and, a whole list of other products/ accessories. Sony may have to drop out of the coming console generation and but they're still going to be around in some form or another.

...

Maybe it's time for me to do away with my vaio...

 

[Nexoram]

Lol first I read Pokemon institute...

Haha, same as me. I looked through the post to see if anyone else did but it's just me and you. Pokemon Institute. Sounds pretty awesome actually.

 

[THE_NAMSU]

Well, it's too bad for Sony... Everyone is rearing their ugly heads to charge at them and nobody is really THAT concerned about catching whomever did this... If they manage to escape is going to be really... really... Really sad...

Also it made me think Gandalf was the one who wrote the United Kingdom's Data Protection Act. Lol

Oooooh wait! I see what you did there...

I don't get it!!! please explain?