Crispy Gamer Calls Out Resident Evil 5's Racism
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Alex P:
I would point out that on a lot of levels 300 was accurate. Yes, the military of Sparta would have all been the same ethnicity. The armies of Persia were multi-ethnic because at that point Xerxes was attempting to conquer/enslave the entire world, and Greece was next
on his hit list. He was drawing his troops from all throughout his conquered lands.
Xerxes *WAS* very decadent, and probably had more slaves than just about anyone in history. It wasn't a bad portrayal given the source.
... that source being of course a COMIC BOOK, which was based on the historical events, and yes it was overblown. 300 was never intended as a historical documentary in anything but the most basic sense.
A more fair response would probably be to point out that it didn't really show the Spartans keeping slaves or anything, which they would have at that time. They WERE keeping the lines between the good guys and the bad guys fairly clear for the purposes of the film. Another more fair point you could make is that the movie also didn't show the various Greek wars of conquest (as they were defending in this one). What they did for civilization in the long run, guys like Alexander The Great were arguably just as bad as Xerxes, took as many slaves, and comitted as many genocides.
As far as the bit with Athens, well consider that this was before Athens and Sparta went at it, and I think those lines were intended to sort of show the beginnings of the tensions that would one day erupt. Besides for the purposes of that version they were setting up the ambassador to be a major bad guy.
I'm sure there are more realistic ways of having done it, but this was intended to be entertaining. It wasn't even remotely fascist, though I guess you could call it "Hyper Macho". I mean heck, the Spartans aren't even wearing historically accurate armor in favor of showing off body-builder type physiques simply because it looks cooler that way.
A historically accurate version of the battle would probably have involved 300 dudes standing in a couple of lines running people through with spears again and again. While they did this in the movie, it would have been boring if that was all they did.
I would point out that on a lot of levels 300 was accurate. Yes, the military of Sparta would have all been the same ethnicity. The armies of Persia were multi-ethnic because at that point Xerxes was attempting to conquer/enslave the entire world, and Greece was next
on his hit list. He was drawing his troops from all throughout his conquered lands.
Xerxes *WAS* very decadent, and probably had more slaves than just about anyone in history. It wasn't a bad portrayal given the source.
... that source being of course a COMIC BOOK, which was based on the historical events, and yes it was overblown. 300 was never intended as a historical documentary in anything but the most basic sense.
A more fair response would probably be to point out that it didn't really show the Spartans keeping slaves or anything, which they would have at that time. They WERE keeping the lines between the good guys and the bad guys fairly clear for the purposes of the film. Another more fair point you could make is that the movie also didn't show the various Greek wars of conquest (as they were defending in this one). What they did for civilization in the long run, guys like Alexander The Great were arguably just as bad as Xerxes, took as many slaves, and comitted as many genocides.
As far as the bit with Athens, well consider that this was before Athens and Sparta went at it, and I think those lines were intended to sort of show the beginnings of the tensions that would one day erupt. Besides for the purposes of that version they were setting up the ambassador to be a major bad guy.
I'm sure there are more realistic ways of having done it, but this was intended to be entertaining. It wasn't even remotely fascist, though I guess you could call it "Hyper Macho". I mean heck, the Spartans aren't even wearing historically accurate armor in favor of showing off body-builder type physiques simply because it looks cooler that way.
A historically accurate version of the battle would probably have involved 300 dudes standing in a couple of lines running people through with spears again and again. While they did this in the movie, it would have been boring if that was all they did.
Zombies are a proud people-before-they-died too you know! In a sense, all zombie games are racist. L4D being the biggest offender. /sarcasm
Apparently, Africa is off-limits. I've read from somewhere that the reason RE4 isn't deemed racist since them Spanish peoples don't have a history of oppression and they weren't enslaved. In fact, they were the ones doing the enslaving. Move the setting to Africa, then people are all-too willing to play the race card. Defending a race you're not a part of (ie. white guy asking for equality for black people), while a valiant effort, just screams hypocrisy, especially when it was YOUR race doing the inequality. Doing so will only make you look like an idiot, not NOT-RACIST.
I have an idea, if you ever see someone who is racist, call him Hitler. Let's see how they like it. Political Correctness can also be done in bad taste you know, anything in excess is bad for you.
Apparently, Africa is off-limits. I've read from somewhere that the reason RE4 isn't deemed racist since them Spanish peoples don't have a history of oppression and they weren't enslaved. In fact, they were the ones doing the enslaving. Move the setting to Africa, then people are all-too willing to play the race card. Defending a race you're not a part of (ie. white guy asking for equality for black people), while a valiant effort, just screams hypocrisy, especially when it was YOUR race doing the inequality. Doing so will only make you look like an idiot, not NOT-RACIST.
I have an idea, if you ever see someone who is racist, call him Hitler. Let's see how they like it. Political Correctness can also be done in bad taste you know, anything in excess is bad for you.
It pains me to see so many people unwilling to put their knee-jerk reactions aside and actually engage in this debate.
The accusations of racism do not, and have never stemmed from the fact that the enemies you fight in Resident Evil 5 are black. It would be ridiculous to set a game in Africa and not include any black characters. What the debate has always been about is how those Africans are portrayed.
Also, bringing this up does not perpetuate racism. Racism will not go away if we just ignore it, racism isn't a bored child starved of attention and acting up so that someone notices it. Whether you agree that the imagery in RE5 is racist or not, dismissing it out of hand because you feel threatened does more to perpetuate racism than a million liberals crying foul.
Just to be clear on this, liking RE5 does not make you a racist, unless the reason you like it is that it lets you kill a lot of black people. It's perfectly natural to get defensive when something you like gets accused of racism, but you have to take a deep breath, put that feeling to one side, and try and look at the issue objectively.
We need to have this kind of debate if we ever want gaming to mature. The 'it's just a game' defense isn't going to work forever. Eventually we are going to have to face up to the fact that what goes into these games matters and we can't just dismiss it as harmless fun.
The accusations of racism do not, and have never stemmed from the fact that the enemies you fight in Resident Evil 5 are black. It would be ridiculous to set a game in Africa and not include any black characters. What the debate has always been about is how those Africans are portrayed.
Also, bringing this up does not perpetuate racism. Racism will not go away if we just ignore it, racism isn't a bored child starved of attention and acting up so that someone notices it. Whether you agree that the imagery in RE5 is racist or not, dismissing it out of hand because you feel threatened does more to perpetuate racism than a million liberals crying foul.
Just to be clear on this, liking RE5 does not make you a racist, unless the reason you like it is that it lets you kill a lot of black people. It's perfectly natural to get defensive when something you like gets accused of racism, but you have to take a deep breath, put that feeling to one side, and try and look at the issue objectively.
We need to have this kind of debate if we ever want gaming to mature. The 'it's just a game' defense isn't going to work forever. Eventually we are going to have to face up to the fact that what goes into these games matters and we can't just dismiss it as harmless fun.
Nilcypher, I love you, can you have my babies?nilcypher said:
I am in no way sucking up to you for a
But I completely agree, this is why I wholeheartedly embrace this kind of debate. Every medium goes through these kinds of issues like sexism, racism, and just basic stereotyping and storytelling. Let's face it, video games are so incredibly sub-par in maturity and maturity in story telling compared to film and books. If we ever want games to grow, ideally as an artistic medium, they we have to look into these debates and see what we could do to improve on the situation.
This doesn't mean that all issues are correct, but it's one step towards making it a more respected medium.
This is why I always hate it that whenever Jack Thompson or Atkinson bring up their "video games are bad!" crap that everyone starts going "video games don't cause violence blah blah blah! No matter how much of an asshole they are, they have one overall point; Video Games are imature. This doesn't mean we can't have imature games, but most "mature" games are even as good as a standard movie. Besides, any form of violent media can cause violence, and that includes video games. Everyone just gets defensive for no reason sometimes.
Bleh, I'm rambling on, sorry.
EDIT (2 techincally): And to support you even more
That's fortunate as I have no say in who gets it, note, if you will, that I am sans pony.Jumplion said:
The original Progenitor virus was found in Africa.
That's where the story started, according to the various diaries scattered throughout the games.
There are still tribal societies in africa, and anyone who thinks that the "savage tribesman with a spear" archetype is antiquated is wrong. That image can be a offensive reminder in america because it was utilized to lampoon black slaves and black citizens. These images don't have the same connotations in japan, but that's not an excuse per se.
It's a fair point of debate, and you definitely have the right to voice a concern over what seems exploitive, but don't allow that concern to explode into a blind rage. There is a story to be told in Resident Evil 5 (I haven't played it, so I don't know if it was told properly or not, but there IS a good reason for them to be in Africa). Let it be told, try to take it in context, and THEN voice your concerns.
And for the love of god, if there is NO movement on either side of the debate, call it a tie, agree to disagree, because there are valid points on both sides.
That's where the story started, according to the various diaries scattered throughout the games.
There are still tribal societies in africa, and anyone who thinks that the "savage tribesman with a spear" archetype is antiquated is wrong. That image can be a offensive reminder in america because it was utilized to lampoon black slaves and black citizens. These images don't have the same connotations in japan, but that's not an excuse per se.
It's a fair point of debate, and you definitely have the right to voice a concern over what seems exploitive, but don't allow that concern to explode into a blind rage. There is a story to be told in Resident Evil 5 (I haven't played it, so I don't know if it was told properly or not, but there IS a good reason for them to be in Africa). Let it be told, try to take it in context, and THEN voice your concerns.
And for the love of god, if there is NO movement on either side of the debate, call it a tie, agree to disagree, because there are valid points on both sides.
Wow first I gotta say I don't watch 24harhol said:
Second my first reaction was dude quit overthinking things it is only a game. I know doesn't help anyone. So after reading your post over a few times I do understand your point. The thing I don't understand is the "frustration?" (I am not sure if that is the right word) directed towards the story. These things happened a long time ago. They are a part of our and thier history and there is nothing we can do about it. It seems any other point is history is fair game to be fictionalized so why not this? I will say that there is a possibility that RE5 can handle it in poor taste (not having beat the game myself I can't honestly say either way) but there has to be a line between bad taste and blatant racism.
Were you making reference to the Iraq war by any chance? Just reading through that made me think of it.
Just to make a point they should have a game in Africa have all white people in it...and they chuck spears etc.
Also No one called RE4 for being a whittle racist...uhh spainish people using scythes, and pitchforks, and crossbows........that screams almost as racist, but not really to make fun of them...blame it on the ignorant Japanese.
Also if they want more games set in Africa, they need to get good press for this crap so they can have other games set in there too!
Also No one called RE4 for being a whittle racist...uhh spainish people using scythes, and pitchforks, and crossbows........that screams almost as racist, but not really to make fun of them...blame it on the ignorant Japanese.
Also if they want more games set in Africa, they need to get good press for this crap so they can have other games set in there too!
Wow. So many strange comments on why the imagery and settings in Resident Evil 5 are not racist. My favourite is the one about how no one complained about the Spaniards in Resi 4.
Anyway, nilcypher has said what I wanted to post so I won't repeat that. But I will reiterate the point made that people shouldn't feel that just because some people say that a game you like has racist imagery, it doesn't mean that you in turn are racist. Please separate the argument from this.
EDIT: Also, the thing about spears and shields is mucho ridiculous. I am Nigerian and I live in Nigeria and my home village is a properly small village with mud huts still around in loadsa places, and not one of the villagers there have spears or shields. They have hunting rifles and machetes. A lot more practical. Then again, since it IS a fictional African country, this is a moot point. Ah well, the continent is in a game, I can't complain too much.
Anyway, nilcypher has said what I wanted to post so I won't repeat that. But I will reiterate the point made that people shouldn't feel that just because some people say that a game you like has racist imagery, it doesn't mean that you in turn are racist. Please separate the argument from this.
EDIT: Also, the thing about spears and shields is mucho ridiculous. I am Nigerian and I live in Nigeria and my home village is a properly small village with mud huts still around in loadsa places, and not one of the villagers there have spears or shields. They have hunting rifles and machetes. A lot more practical. Then again, since it IS a fictional African country, this is a moot point. Ah well, the continent is in a game, I can't complain too much.
I didn't think RE 5 was racist until I read that review. He brings up a lot of points and explains exactly why they are racist, just in case people didn't catch it.
That's what harhol has been trying to say since the begining, RE5 isn't "racist" per se, but it sure ain't free from an indecency issues. The argument has always been how African's are being portrayed, never how RE5 was blatantly racist, just the imagery that it gives off. You can't overthink in imagery and that's why I'd consider it more subliminal than blatant "racism".squid5580 said:
I'm not saying RE5 is racist, but I am saying it just an imature way to give off a thrill. This isn't restricted to Re5, swap in RE4, Uncharted, Fat Princess, hell even Mario, GTA series, any game can really be "racist". But it all depends on how prominetely it's displayed. RE4 had you fighting spainiards, but to my knowledge it didn't use that many tropes against spainiards. Uncharted had you fighting pirates, and we all love fighting pirates don't we? Mario is a cute n' cuddly plumber, that's not exactly negative. But they are still "racist" just by a stretch and so is RE5.
Once again, change the setting to Philedelphia, does it change anything to how the Africans (now American
) are displayed?
Most of this would be valid... if this game was made by americans??
This is made by Capcom an Asian company, so it's not like the Americans are trying to make a point are they??
Besides, it's obvious Capcom are going round the world with different strains of the virus arnt they?
When white American's were turned into zombies throughout the first 3 or so games, was there outcrys of racism? NO.
When spanish (I think, correct me if im wrong) peasants were turned into psychotic spanish gibbering infected and portrayed in an rural european country where a white american is sent to save a white woman captured by these spaniards was there an outcry of racism? NO
but as soon as we hit Africa, theres an explosion of hate and crys of racism. For the love of God, get over it! I for one think its a great idea setting a game in different, diverse environments. Beats dark overcast zombie infested city or rural village + castle in forest.
If an infection turns up in Africa, I kinda expect black infected, same as if it was set in china, id expect infected asians. Theres no need to slate a game down because it's simply portraying an environment correctly and plus the fact the place in Africa is FICTIONAL. So they can tweak reality like with the tribal african infected with spears and stuff.
There was similiar shite when Watchmen came out, it made me rage. Someone was deeply offended because of the way asians were portrayed in the film (not going into it in case i spoil anything) it seems nowadays people are just looking for an excuse to call the racist card or the religious card or whatever.
Just enjoy the game for what it is, I seriously doubt CAPCOM are doing it with the intention of racist undertones.
Jeez.
I'm going to go play it now
This is made by Capcom an Asian company, so it's not like the Americans are trying to make a point are they??
Besides, it's obvious Capcom are going round the world with different strains of the virus arnt they?
When white American's were turned into zombies throughout the first 3 or so games, was there outcrys of racism? NO.
When spanish (I think, correct me if im wrong) peasants were turned into psychotic spanish gibbering infected and portrayed in an rural european country where a white american is sent to save a white woman captured by these spaniards was there an outcry of racism? NO
but as soon as we hit Africa, theres an explosion of hate and crys of racism. For the love of God, get over it! I for one think its a great idea setting a game in different, diverse environments. Beats dark overcast zombie infested city or rural village + castle in forest.
If an infection turns up in Africa, I kinda expect black infected, same as if it was set in china, id expect infected asians. Theres no need to slate a game down because it's simply portraying an environment correctly and plus the fact the place in Africa is FICTIONAL. So they can tweak reality like with the tribal african infected with spears and stuff.
There was similiar shite when Watchmen came out, it made me rage. Someone was deeply offended because of the way asians were portrayed in the film (not going into it in case i spoil anything) it seems nowadays people are just looking for an excuse to call the racist card or the religious card or whatever.
Just enjoy the game for what it is, I seriously doubt CAPCOM are doing it with the intention of racist undertones.
Jeez.
I'm going to go play it now
I'll start off by saying that I like this game. I love the co-op game play.
I've been playing online a bunch this weekend. My "african" friends online, have no problem with this game. It is an overblown non-issue. I find it funny that all this perceived racism is being perceived by white guys.
I've been playing online a bunch this weekend. My "african" friends online, have no problem with this game. It is an overblown non-issue. I find it funny that all this perceived racism is being perceived by white guys.
Thank you. After reading three pages of this thread, and hearing countless people go on about how the tribal dress is racist because modern day Africans don't dress like that blah blah blah... you're the first person that considers the reason they dress like that might have something to do with the plot of the game, a la las plagas.PirateKing said:
They have mind controlling parasites in their brains, me thinks they would act just a tad differently. Oh, whats this? They started wearing 'traditional' African garb? Couldn't have anything to do with the games plot / the mind controlling parasites, that there is racism!
I would be very surprised if I went to Africa and Russians zombies started clawing at me "da, you capitalistic pig, die (apologies to Russians everywhere).
By the way, you surprised that zombies are acting savage and violent? Me either.
Get over it. It's a game, if you're seeing racism, it's because you want to.
Get off your soapbox, Mrs. Whitehouse.
By the way, you surprised that zombies are acting savage and violent? Me either.
Get over it. It's a game, if you're seeing racism, it's because you want to.
Get off your soapbox, Mrs. Whitehouse.