Critical Miss: Sexism and/or Racism
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Heh, I thought the exact same thing when I saw Therumancer's post on my inbox.canadamus_prime said:
But on to the topic. As I don't really wanna quote all that, I'll address it here.
I've heard of the invisible knapsack theory. I have to disagree that it applies to what I was saying. My main point is that yes, racism does exist, and not in such small, insurmountable numbers. Just because it isn't in your face doesn't mean much. I also see too many people getting judged -or should I say, prejudged- off the bat because of their race. You see a woman, and you instantly think she isn't capable of the same duty as a man, and thats ignoring jobs based on physical labor. I do not think the issue is of cultural barriers.
I have to agree that said cultural barriers exist, for the exact reasons that you stated. Admittedly, there is no set lifestyle in America that you must conform too, that is the beauty of America. You can come here from India and not expect to loss you Indian values. You can move from China and not have to lose your Chinese customs. In theory (emphasis on that word, "theory") you can come as an immigrant, and not have to change yourself to be considered an American (you just can't be President). However, you cannot come here expecting things to run the way it was in your home country. You may be able to beat women in the country of Ihatewomannia, but oncer you come here, that women beating is over. Some people cannot adjust to the rules and the way others live, and expect the rules to conform to how they once lived.
That said, I do not think we are debating an issue of cultural barriers, as we can both agree it exist. Your first sentence in your post described the definition of racism/sexism. That also applies to how things going on now. For example, this post that I have quoted
You quoted minorites and women for blaming whites and men, respectivley, for not being able to deal with their problems. You blamed those two groups, specifically. I'm not calling you a racist or anything of the sort, but those two groups were singled out. There are plenty of whites who blame minorities for things not going their way. There are plenty of men who blame women in the office for every problem, not owning up to the fact that they may be a problem. For example, some people may say crap like "guy A got the job over me (guy B) because of affirmative action!" (I should point out that I do not support affirmative action, but this is neither the time nor the place). It isn't possible that guy A got the job over guy B...because he earned it? Things like that do exist, and it applies to everyone, from a black woman blaming a white guy to a white guy blaming an indian man.Therumancer said:
This was fun, but I don't really wanna bog this thread with such heavy debate over things that doesn't entirely have to do with the thread. As in, I don't really wanna derail a thread, so I'll agree to disagree here. Unless the thread really gets derailed to the point that we can discuss this with no prob.
I forgot to mention one crucial thing in my post!
A big prblem with racism/sexism that I forgot to mention...is that it gets thrown around far, faaar too often. There can be legitimate cases of such, but the term gets thrown about disrespectfully to, as you said, excuse laziness and fallings of an individual. This "feminist whore" thing, while techincally sexist, isn't a reason to cry sexism to me. It IS a reason to cry immaturaty. THAT is my issue with this. It was a childish thing to do that had nothing to do with the game, even if it was in debug mode, because we do have the right to dig around there. After all, isn't that how modders make mods?
Seriously, I don't know. I'm asking.
A big prblem with racism/sexism that I forgot to mention...is that it gets thrown around far, faaar too often. There can be legitimate cases of such, but the term gets thrown about disrespectfully to, as you said, excuse laziness and fallings of an individual. This "feminist whore" thing, while techincally sexist, isn't a reason to cry sexism to me. It IS a reason to cry immaturaty. THAT is my issue with this. It was a childish thing to do that had nothing to do with the game, even if it was in debug mode, because we do have the right to dig around there. After all, isn't that how modders make mods?
Seriously, I don't know. I'm asking.
Oh dear god, Therumancer is here? I thought I would never see him again since I stopped going to the Palladium boards.
But yeah, there might still be racism and sexism issues, but it's still wrong to engage in identity politics. At worst, only go after those who actively do racist things, not treating all straight white men as "part of the problem."
If a person really believes in equality, they will abandon identity politics and seek Instrumentality as well.
But yeah, there might still be racism and sexism issues, but it's still wrong to engage in identity politics. At worst, only go after those who actively do racist things, not treating all straight white men as "part of the problem."
If a person really believes in equality, they will abandon identity politics and seek Instrumentality as well.
Madness?canadamus_prime said:
We here on the Escapist always discuss things rationally and politely. Now pick yourself up and let's start this conversation over again.
The right way this time.
Someone make this a PSA and distribute it as often as video game commercials.
This needs to be heard.
This needs to be heard.
Brilliant, brilliant.
It's even worse when people accuse games of being violent. "I've been playing violent games since I was eight and it didn't make me a bit more aggressive, so shut the fuck up or I'll slice off your head with barbed wire and shove it up your ass until your stomach bursts!"
It's even worse when people accuse games of being violent. "I've been playing violent games since I was eight and it didn't make me a bit more aggressive, so shut the fuck up or I'll slice off your head with barbed wire and shove it up your ass until your stomach bursts!"
If I had a buck for every thread I've seen that does exactly this, I'd have enough to finance a feminist game development studio.
Racism is the belief that race or ethnicity means can make you inferior or inferior, just based on whose vagina you crawled out of.Therumancer said:
That happens.
Are you telling me, with a straight face, that it doesn't? I get what you're saying with the cultural clashes and the behavioural groups, but when I sit behind a bus driver and he tells me cheerfully that asians are really little more than animals (when the person he's not stopping for goes by 'Dazza' and has never used a chopstick), I'm pretty sure that's him believing he's better than somebody because of their race.
And if you don't think that attitude is mainstream, I want to live where you do.
The problem with this claim is that, to use the Dead Island example as an excuse, there is no "failing" to justify this point, nothing that the Dead Island creators have that the people pointing out that referring to a character as a "Feminist whore" is inappropriate does not. The have/have not dichotomy between those claiming sexism/racism and those who stand accused of it simply does not apply. Just as it does not apply when it comes to issues such as one that has arisen in own home country, complaints that there are too many Asian students attending college. Technically, the Asians in that scenario are the "haves", but they are also the ones being discriminated against in these writings. It is, purely and simply, bigotry.Therumancer said:
You also fail to address with this dichotomy something I've encountered quite often as a woman in a traditionally male-dominated profession: white males using "political correctness" to justify their own failings. I.e., whinging about discrimination and sexism when a woman/minority is hired, even though that woman/minority was more qualified. It makes them feel better to cry about quotas and reverse racism (even when applying to companies/schools that have none) when they fail to make the cut, yet see that any woman/minority did. Clearly, it must have been affimative action. Clearly. In my own personal experience I've been the receiving end of this ire for receiving sought-after internship positions, and obviously this had me very concerned, so I asked my supervisors if this was true - they laughed and told me that my GPA was much, much higher than the men who were complaining.
Yet, they continue to tell this story (read: lie) over and over again to friends, coworkers, on social networking sites... and no one ever seems to question it. Of course I only got the position because I'm a girl! Of course!
Frankly, so long as your idea of persecuting those who cry racism/sexism when it doesn't apply applies equally to those crying "reverse racism" and "misandry" when they don't apply, I am all for it. We should start it today.
Jack Dee is one of my favourite comedians.The_root_of_all_evil said:
My wife is a big fan of Jo Brand who's quite possibly the most hilarious female comedienne i've seen while managing to be completely sexist towards men.
One of her best lines "I'm happily married ..... not sure about my husband".
Sarah Millican also has her moments but is still hilarious.
I don't think you can accuse comedians of actual sexism and/or racism unless you take comedy far too seriously which is the exact opposite of what comedy should be viewed as.
I'll use Frankie Boyle as an example. Some of the material he uses is so tongue in cheek yet it's still just comedy. He has the shock value because he uses jokes nobody else would touch, even Chubby Brown avoids most of the material Frankie uses. Yet he's constantly in the shit for one comment or another despite the fact he's only saying it for a giggle.
Some people just take things far too seriously.