Criticism of Anime and Manga

[Kyogissun]

And now from the Escapist Forum Newsdesk:

Surprising noone, the anime/manga fans could offer nothing to a man criticizing anime art styles except repeating "Haha you stupid inferior round-eye" and posting collages of random contextless images which answer nothing except "There are indeed some differences between varying shows" (which was not the question of course, but once again, discussion is impossible on a discussion board).

i lold.

+1

*looks at avatar*

Anyone... Feeling a pot calling the kettle black situation here right now? I'm not saying anything other than that someone with a PHF avatar... Really needs to contribute something more to the thread other than an 'lol' statement.

aha! you fell into my trap. I, having nothing important to contribute to this thread(that hasn't been said already) deduced that by posting a "lol" comment (which is a lol with that statement not at it, in case you were wondering) I would give some else a chance to complain and artificially lengthen the thread! prepare for circular arguments!

... nvm. alright fine my two cents: I enjoyed Dragonball (manga) & I liked Cowboy Bebop (cept for the main plot episodes) & I loved Trigun (anime, not the manga). most of the time I find anime/manga to be overly dramatic without cause, or too depressing, or concerned with cultural elements that I don't (and don't want to) relate to. It has nothing to do with the art style, or production quality: only with setting, plot, and themes.

and who doesn't want to have perfect hair forever?

Nothing wrong with the show itself, it was actually kinda funny in a few episodes.

But god DAMN did that show 'try too hard', you know what I mean? I mean, I really prefer not to use that phrase but man, it's almost as bad as the level of gore in The Walking Dead.

Trust me, I love me some gore, but jesus christ, the combination of sounds and visuals in that show is really fucking ridiculous sometimes. WE GET IT, THEY ARE BEATING THE ZOMBIE TO DEATH, THE SOUNDS OF FLESH SQUISHING AND BEING STRUCK/TORN DO NOT NEED TO BE AS LOUD AS THE BACKGROUND MUSIC AND SPOKEN DIALOGUE.

I just... The stabs they took at anime in the show were either done to death criticisms or felt too much like 'BLAH WE HATE THIS ABOUT THAT' rather than 'Hey, isn't it kinda funny how this is true about that?' kind of humor. That is to say, they abused the show and turned it into somewhat of a soapbox and 'reject pile' for jokes, rather than trying to be genuinely funny and making accurate and witty observations.

Forgot my on topic comment, I give you credit, that's a pretty legit reason to not find it your cup of tea.

I can imagine a good number of shows that would be a 'turn off' for you but I can also imagine a good number you might enjoy. Everyone has their pickiness when it comes to TV, it's just finding the right show that suits your palette.

Though, I imagine making you watch an episode of Clannad would probably make you die a bit on the inside.

 

[Angryman101]

Anime art is typically quite aesthetically pleasing, sometimes more so than western cartoons. I really love many of the different types of art that anime uses.
What has made me come to hold a deep disdain for anime, however, are the tropes. The things that almost all anime share that are inherent due to the japanese culture. I just can't fucking stand the way people can't spit out what they want and the constant god damned melodrama this generates; the constant gruff, generic toughness of male characters, along with their (typically) androgynous features. It's come to a point where the only mangas I really follow (I prefer manga to anime) are One Piece and Mahou Sensei Negima; the first because it's fucking wonderful, the second because I loved Love Hina and I refuse to give up on Ken Akamatsu (and the characters are fairly unique and likable).

 

[[Kira Must Die]]

I don't like to label anime as a genre of its own. I consider it cartoons like anything else that's hand-drawn or CG. There's really not much of a difference between western animation and anime. There are as much bad western shows as there are bad anime, and speaking of which, it's not all about art style, theirs always things like plot and story to pay attention to, too other than pretty colors.

I tend to lean towards anime because (this is souly my opinion) I feel that it appeals to a more serious or older audience. All the western animation I've seen have just been children's cartoons or action shows that are really dumb down for younger audiences, and the cartoons that aim for older audience are pretty much just really raunchy comedy cartoons, like South Park or Family guy, which isn't a bad thing. There are lots of great children's programing and I enjoy some South Park form time to time, but sometimes I just feel like watching something different.

Anime comes with a variety of different genres, from action to horror to comedy to romance, and for different age groups. Anime usually has something that appeals to everyone. If you don't like one show, there might be another one just waiting for you, but you can't just label them all crap since there's literally thousands of them. It just takes a little more effort to find the good stuff. You're bound to find something you like eventually.
And don't think I dislike western animation, because I love them, too. I watched more western shows as a child than I spent watching Pokemon or any other anime. It's just that I'm older now and the shows now days don't really appeal to me (Or just plain suck.) But in the end they're all just animation.

 

[Vibhor]

People hate anime because anime was actually meant for japanese people with completely different customs and morals.
When the anime is viewed by a different person with different ideas there is a large chance he is gonna hate it.
If american programs were to be shown in japan I am pretty sure many people would hate them
Lets take ben 10 and Inuzuma 11 for eg(because those are the only programs "good" that are on the television in my country)
Japanese anime is usually about a hip youngster taking part in some famous activity and winning it by "will" and other BS(Beyblade,Inuzuma 11 Dragon ball come to mind)Whereas American cartoon is about a whiny angsty teenager whining and sulking and also making stupid and snarky one liners and puns while fighting someone.If the cartoon is about super heroes there is gonna be secret identities and some nagging ***** that is more intellectual than the main hero.(Spiderman and Ben 10 comes to mind).
Anime haters are nothing more than whiners who make random post about how bad they hate anime whereas anime lovers are fanboys who want the haters to love anime.
(now that is what I call an abrupt ending)

 

[typhado]

You know how all rap songs are just the same 4 beats over and over and they all sound exactly the same?

 

[FoxVI]

I understand what the OP means. I watch alot of different anime as well as manga, and the visual style is very similar. Im not sure if it's because there following in osamu tezuka's footsteps (Blackjack is my personal favorite work of his) or if it's an industry thing. However there are plenty of works out there that are unique, although they usually have the trademark anime style. If you want some good ones try; Hellsing (gory action) souleater( very cool world and charectors) anything by Hino Hideshi (for horror fans) or osamu tezuka's own work, which is based off disney. It's all good man.

 

[SimuLord]

My biggest problem with anime and manga is anime and manga fans. I swear they're incapable of talking about any subject other than their obsession. There is no such thing as a casual anime fan...which is why I give them a wide berth. Ignore the dudes, don't date the chicks.

 

[Vibhor]

My biggest problem with anime and manga is anime and manga fans. I swear they're incapable of talking about any subject other than their obsession. There is no such thing as a casual anime fan...which is why I give them a wide berth. Ignore the dudes, don't date the chicks.

This is so true
I have a brother who loves anime and always talk about shit like naruto and one piece
He keeps going on and on about some uchiha madara or something and how bleach is worse than one piece.

 

[Grimlock Fett]

And dont even get me started on filler and fucking fan service... Modern anime screwed up a series about teenagers getting munched by zombies... HOW DO YOU MANAGE TO FUCK THAT UP? GRRRR!

I'm guessing this did not amuse you.
<youtube=ODRYtESdfUY>

LOL that show has more upskirts and jiggles than any other anime/manga:'D

anime/manga is an acquired taste! I know my immediate circle of friends would get bored/ be like wtf. after 2 minutes! The stories are often very deep and deal with situations western animations wouldn't dare! The quality of the voice acting is amazing! Serious western cartoons come off as being cheesy and hammy! I do enjoy shows like Megas XLR and invader zim!

 

[Smooth Operator]

Well animes have a very distinct look, but saying they all look the same is like saying all black people look the same, they are all black yes but it's the details that matter.

For me the anime style is the most appealing part, even the most kiddy animes make the people look normal(Pokemon), but at the same time they throw in some absurd face features to make it cute.
And not to mention all the anime designers are quite pervy, every girl is a chiseled perfection with huge... features.
And all action sequences just go over the top nuts, they really know how to make something feel epic.

But then they come in with all the drama, all the pointless dialog and the internal dialog, and the half hour sequences of opponents growling at eachother, it does give me time to go make a sandwich but that is clearly just pointless filler.

 

[DP155ToneZone]

I think a lot of you have taken unfounded pot shots at the OP.

For shame.

 

[Vibhor]

Black cat
She ain't intelligent but still is a *****

 

[Carboncrown]

The fact that you can easily identify something as anime kind of proves the similarities.
Obviously there is a diffrence, for example the two Hellsing animes, very clear difference. Yet both are also very clearly anime.

That's not an issue for me actually. More so when the fps is shit and the lack of lip sync and proper body language/facial expressions.
But these things shouldn't put anyone off from an entire medium that's got lots of great stuff in it.

And giant robots.

 

[tehroc]

Is animation style really the most important thing when telling a story? I'd focus more on writing or character development personally. Saying you don't like something because the art style isn't different enough seems like a very weak argument to me.

It can be, take a look at Jackie Chan Adventures, the animation was the only thing that attracted audiences (and still goes down as the most well animated martial arts cartoon ever made, suck on that Anime).

Personally I think his argument is valid. Character designs being very similar give an aura of mass production. All the anime fans bash the guy while they nitpick over little details in order to make their point, while denying at the core most designs are similar.

 

[SimpleReally]

Watch Monster.
You're welcome

 

[Megalodon]

I'm guessing this did not amuse you.
<youtube=ODRYtESdfUY>

It's things like this that give anime as a whole a bad name.

I just wanna say that if your opinion of a show, not just anime, is based on appearances is very shallow. A show should be based on its story depth, and character development.

That's just my 2 cents worth thought it needed to be said, because art style is nothing without story and characters to back it up.

While I get what you mean here. But both amine and manga are primarily visual mediums. So if a person (like me), simply doesn't like the anime visual style, then I will struggle to even bother to watch a show, the story might be fantastic, but I am very unlikely to get that far.

What has made me come to hold a deep disdain for anime, however, are the tropes. The things that almost all anime share that are inherent due to the japanese culture. I just can't fucking stand the way people can't spit out what they want and the constant god damned melodrama this generates; the constant gruff, generic toughness of male characters, along with their (typically) androgynous features.

And this accounts for the rest of why I personally do not like/watch anime.

My biggest problem with anime and manga is anime and manga fans. I swear they're incapable of talking about any subject other than their obsession. There is no such thing as a casual anime fan...which is why I give them a wide berth. Ignore the dudes, don't date the chicks.

Give this man a medal.

 

[beniki]

Yeah it's all the same. Put Robotech next to Macross, Knights of the Southern Cross and Space Climber Mos Peda, and they look exactly the same.

Yeah I'm joking with you, and perhaps on 0.002% of the people on this site know why

 

[kirok]

I would say for the most part lots of anime is not that great, and have similar art styles. But many great anime films/shows do exist.

 

[Therumancer]

I personally do not like anime and manga and never have really, with the exceptions of the Pokémon TV anime back when I was obsessed with the franchise back in the late 90's, and getting into Dragonball Z for about a week and then losing interest. Bear in mind that I do have somewhat limited experience with anime and manga, however I have done a bit of research in writing this post.

My major criticism of anime and manga is that there is a lack of any really different artistic styles, save the styles of traditional anime and the cutsey Hello Kitty-esque style. To me, pretty much all anime that is out there looks stylistically the same to me. Looking at Astro Boy, the first really successful anime series, the style looks almost identical to anime series today like One-Piece or Bleach. The utter lack of originality in artistic style in my opinion is kinda sad.
Compare that to American animation. Looney Tunes of the 1950's look nothing like cartoons of today like Spongebob or Ed, Edd, & Eddy. American animation today bears very little semblance of it's ancestors.

Let it be known that I am not trying to bash anime or manga and say that people who like it are studpid or anything like that. I'm only trying to spell out my perspective of how I view it. Please, if you are an anime fan, please post a response as I am deeply curious of what you think.

EDIT: It has been brought to my attention the many different styles of anime that are out there. I will concede my ignorance.

EDIT2: This was meant to be a criticism like an art critique. This was not meant to be an attack on manga or anime or anyone who enjoys either.
Shred Hexus sums up what I meant to say quite nicely.

To someone already invested in anime, the stylistic differences are more pronounced. To someone on the outside (such as OP and myself) the general lack of clear distinction between anime art styles can be off-putting and make it harder to get into. The fact that you can look at and anime and instantly know it's an anime is indicative of this. It uses a specific set of motifs and styles, and rarely alters them in a clearly distinctive way.

OP's argument isn't that anime is all the same, it's that there is significantly less visual variety between series and artists compared to american cartoons.

Yes, Anime is highly stylized. I think part of your problem here is that you more easily pick up on the differances between Western cartoons because of greater long term cultural exposure. Truthfully I think a Western Cartoon is recognizable overseas just as much as an Eastern one is here due to the fundemental stylistic differances.

Another thing you will notice is that a lot of Anime that makes it to the US comes from very specific studios. A given studio putting out a new series every year or every couple of years. Compared to Western animation where series like Spongebob can last a long time and see consistant production, and development teams/studios might exist for only one product. An anime produced by the same basic people is going to look very similar to their other work.

Think of it like comic books. They swap artists around a lot, but you can recoginize the distinctive style of differant artists even when they switch titles or companies. The way some guy draws Batman for example is not going to change all that much even if he does it in differant titles. What's more the simple way he tends to draw (faces, etc...) is liable to be similar even when he does differant characters. This is why for comic fans who is doing the artwork for a given storyline can be as important as the story itself.

But yes, the eastern art style, with things like the big eyes (in most cases), is very distinctive. As is a western style where we generally have more proportional characters.

-

To be honest I used to be a much bigger Anime fan than I am currently. In part because I'm one of those "I was into Anime before Anime was cool" guys, and long before Anime becoming fairly mainstream, and a staple of the general nerd consciousness.

Like anything, it's not for everyone, and there is nothing wrong with that. No need to knock it because you don't care for it, despite the obsessives.

Having seen so bloody much of it, I'll tell you that it has just as many horrible stereotypes and cliques as anything else, and as much variance in quality as any other medium. As time has gone on I think a lot more crud has been shoveled onto the US audience, and that's a big part of why I just don't bother to follow it as much as it used to. I'm tired of bobbing for diamonds in a trough of pick slop.