Cross Assault? More Like Sexual Assault.

[Space Spoons]

If any of you follow the competitive fighting game scene with any regularity, you've probably heard by now about the drama going down on Capcom's "Street Fighter x Tekken" reality show, Cross Assault.

You can read in-depth about the incident here [http://www.giantbomb.com/news/when-passions-flare-lines-are-crossed/4006/], but to summarize, Team Tekken's coach made a number of sexually charged remarks toward a female player, eventually driving her to forfeit the competition and leave the show. The incident has been sparking discussion all over the web for the past couple of days.

Some people are saying that Miranda, the female player in question, should have toughened up. After all, there was $25,000 riding on this competition, and besides that, trash talk has always been a part of the competitive fighting game community.

Others believe Miranda was justified in leaving, that Aris, Team Tekken's coach, crossed a line with his remarks, and that the incident as a whole reflects very poorly on the fighting game community.

Personally, I'm in the latter camp. The fact that this even happened is bad enough, but the way the community is reacting (blaming the victim, playing it off) is arguably even worse.

What are your thoughts, Escapists?

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

Okay, that Bakhtanians guy pisses me off. I guess sexual harassment is as important to the fighting game community as a basketball is to a basketball game?

 

[Ordinaryundone]

Here's the thing: It's trash talk. It's SUPPOSED to put you ill at ease and hurt your feelings. If it doesn't, then you aren't doing it right. I have no idea what this guy said, but chances are good that this Miranda took it way too personally. If I quit a game every time someone threw slurs or profanity at me, especially in competition, I'd never get anything done. In any competetive setting, you just have to learn to have tough skin. Yipes says shit that would make my grandmother faint on a regular basis (if she could understand half of it).

That said, just because it's standard practice (and not exactly wrong) doesn't mean its right. He probably could have chosen less offensive names or something, but the fact remains, its a competetive setting made all the more competetive for the large prize being offered. She had to know what she was getting into.

 

[krazykidd]

Here's the thing: It's trash talk. It's SUPPOSED to put you ill at ease and hurt your feelings. If it doesn't, then you aren't doing it right. I have no idea what this guy said, but chances are good that this Miranda took it way too personally. If I quit a game every time someone threw slurs or profanity at me, especially in competition, I'd never get anything done. In any competetive setting, you just have to learn to have tough skin. Yipes says shit that would make my grandmother faint on a regular basis (if she could understand half of it).

That said, just because it's standard practice (and not exactly wrong) doesn't mean its right. He probably could have chosen less offensive names or something, but the fact remains, its a competetive setting made all the more competetive for the large prize being offered. She had to know what she was getting into.

I have to agree with most of this , but what did he say exacly? Were what he said sexist ( i mean real sexism , not that bullshit extreme feminist call sexist) because if it was thats crossing the line . I'd be damn if i'd let someone say racist things to me during a competition ( i say racist because i'm black and i think that would be crossing the line ). But what does "sexual charged" mean . I personally would find it offensive if hed said something like " you can't win because you don't have a penis " as opposed to " are you boobs getting in the way".

 

[Awexsome]

To quote from the interview:

Rea: When I go to SoCal regionals and I see a Phoenix [from Marvel vs. Capcom 3] on main stage getting blown up and there?s some dude in the audience just yelling ?*****! *****!? every time she gets hit and then she killed and goes ?Yeah, rape that *****!? Yeah, that?s totally acceptable! Really? Really? You?re going to tell me that?s acceptable?

Bakhtanians: Look, man. What is unacceptable about that? There?s nothing unacceptable about that. These are people, we?re in America, man, this isn?t North Korea. We can say what we want. People get emotional.

also

Rea: Can I get my Street Fighter without sexual harassment?

Bakhtanians: You can?t. You can?t because they?re one and the same thing. This is a community that?s, you know, 15 or 20 years old, and the sexual harassment is part of a culture, and if you remove that from the fighting game community, it?s not the fighting game community--it?s StarCraft.

And people wonder sometimes why the competitive gaming scene is seen as filled of immature man-children.

They're not just sexist... they know they are and are PROUD of it. Disgusting.

And for god's sake he pulls the, "Well I'm not a racist either I totally have black friends!" card. It's just a summary of the worst the gaming community can be.

 

[Ordinaryundone]

To quote from the interview:

Rea: When I go to SoCal regionals and I see a Phoenix [from Marvel vs. Capcom 3] on main stage getting blown up and there?s some dude in the audience just yelling ?*****! *****!? every time she gets hit and then she killed and goes ?Yeah, rape that *****!? Yeah, that?s totally acceptable! Really? Really? You?re going to tell me that?s acceptable?

Bakhtanians: Look, man. What is unacceptable about that? There?s nothing unacceptable about that. These are people, we?re in America, man, this isn?t North Korea. We can say what we want. People get emotional.

This guy sounds like a dick, but the important part is the last sentence. People get emotional. This is true in ANY competetive setting, especially with a prize like 25 grand on the line. That is not a small chunk of change. People are going to get worked up, and trash talk will happen. Its a given. Better people can blow off steam with meaningless insults than escalate into physical violence.

Oh, and people boo Phoenix because she's Phoenix, not because they are particularly sexist. Nobody likes Phoenix. You don't see Trish, Storm, etc. getting the same treatment.

 

[Dansen]

To quote from the interview:

Rea: When I go to SoCal regionals and I see a Phoenix [from Marvel vs. Capcom 3] on main stage getting blown up and there?s some dude in the audience just yelling ?*****! *****!? every time she gets hit and then she killed and goes ?Yeah, rape that *****!? Yeah, that?s totally acceptable! Really? Really? You?re going to tell me that?s acceptable?

Bakhtanians: Look, man. What is unacceptable about that? There?s nothing unacceptable about that. These are people, we?re in America, man, this isn?t North Korea. We can say what we want. People get emotional.

This guy sounds like a dick, but the important part is the last sentence. People get emotional. This is true in ANY competetive setting, especially with a prize like 25 grand on the line. That is not a small chunk of change. People are going to get worked up, and trash talk will happen. Its a given. Better people can blow off steam with meaningless insults than escalate into physical violence.

Oh, and people boo Phoenix because she's Phoenix, not because they are particularly sexist. Nobody likes Phoenix. You don't see Trish, Storm, etc. getting the same treatment.

He asked her what her bra size was. Thats sexual harassment dude!

 

[Ordinaryundone]

To quote from the interview:

Rea: When I go to SoCal regionals and I see a Phoenix [from Marvel vs. Capcom 3] on main stage getting blown up and there?s some dude in the audience just yelling ?*****! *****!? every time she gets hit and then she killed and goes ?Yeah, rape that *****!? Yeah, that?s totally acceptable! Really? Really? You?re going to tell me that?s acceptable?

Bakhtanians: Look, man. What is unacceptable about that? There?s nothing unacceptable about that. These are people, we?re in America, man, this isn?t North Korea. We can say what we want. People get emotional.

This guy sounds like a dick, but the important part is the last sentence. People get emotional. This is true in ANY competetive setting, especially with a prize like 25 grand on the line. That is not a small chunk of change. People are going to get worked up, and trash talk will happen. Its a given. Better people can blow off steam with meaningless insults than escalate into physical violence.

Oh, and people boo Phoenix because she's Phoenix, not because they are particularly sexist. Nobody likes Phoenix. You don't see Trish, Storm, etc. getting the same treatment.

He asked her what her bra size was. Thats sexual harassment dude!

If she had made a comment about his dick size, would this have gotten the same attention? Unlikely. But that is the kind of talk you have to put up with. There shouldnt be some magical limit on the naughty language just because there is a girl in the room. That goes against Tue entire spirit of competition.

Unless he did it in private, away from the game. That is different. But in the heat of the moment I feel comments like that carry little to no weight, especially when you are fully expecting to get as good as you give.

 

[StriderShinryu]

It's so nice that only Aris' viewpoint is really being given any consideration. Those who actually watched the stream itself and took the entire thing in context, not to mention those who are actually familiar with the fighting game community and culture, would have likely come to a different conclusion. Haunts, the guy Jared was actually talking to when Aris chimed in, clarified the position he holds and the position of many in the fighting game community immediately after the skype call ended.. but that's too much to ask of those wanting to sensationalize things.

Aris' desire is not necessarily one of saying that the FGC needs sexual harassment to exist. It's about sexual harassment being part of a community and culture that started in pizza joints, convenience stores and seedy arcades and has existed for nearly 20 years. The FGC didn't start at "nerdy" LAN parties and behind PC monitors. This 20 years was also, most importantly to the point at hand, self determined and self guided. Very few people within the community actually feel sexual harassment is a requirement of the community, they just don't want someone from outside the community trying to suddenly step in and tru to control the scene.. and they certainly don't want someone from the outside trying to exert control simply because the FGC is now big enough to have a reasonable amount of money involved now.

For those who actually follow the community, and maybe even consider themselves part of it, they would know that there are many many streams, events and players that never dabble in any form of sexual harassment, especially when in the public eye. See: James Chen, Ultradavid, Justin Wong, Floe, Daigo (pretty much all non US players, actually), Spooky, Maximillian, LI Joe, etc, etc. Put simply, if anyone out there really does consider sexual harassment in and of itself to be part of the FGC, it's probably only Aris, and if you actually listen to what he's saying you'll see that the sexual harassment itself isn't necesarrily what he's worried about.

Oh, and while I personally am on Miranda's side in that I do think Aris went too far despite supposedly being told to cut it out, she's not entirely innocent. If you, once again, actually watched the stream, you would have seen her on the stream talking about her boyfriend's gentalia.

 

[rofltehcat]

This was also covered by Penny Arcade, including the part where a lot of this happened:
http://penny-arcade.com/report/editorial-article/sexual-harassment-as-ethical-imperative-the-ugly-side-of-fighting-games

Imo, the line of "trash talk" was simply crossed here. Sure, there may be a little trash talk but here the line was simply stepped. Even if all of the comments hadn't been sexually aggressive, it would simply have been too much.
People have to remember that shows like this are influencing how we as gamers are seen by outsiders and having someone step so out of line, then defend himself (with poor arguments like "we're in America") and then later be defended by the fighting game community as if it were perfectly normal and acceptable is a bad thing.

The show could have been a great opportunity for the fighting game community to interest outsiders into their games and help their games become more relevant as an esport. Instead they got this... thing and instead of being outraged about the behaviour shown, they are outraged about how news sources dare criticize them and defend this behaviour.

 

[Erana]

Rape just isn't something to trivialize. Yeah, an occasional "Wow, that boss totally raped me" when you get utterly obliterated in a game is a gross exaggeration, but is more a poor choice of words in the heat of the moment.

Its when you use it actively as a positive term, that is just wrong. Rape is the abuse and domination of other human beings to an extreme degree. Its generally used for sexual connotations, but rape as a concept means so much more than that. Its used to describe some of the most inhumane acts in history, like the rape of Nanking.
Yeah, there are some laws that make things more grey, like an 18-year-old "raping" their 16-year-old boy or girlfriend on a legal technicality, but come on. We all are aware of what rape really is about and that's no justification.
The thing is, though, the people in the OP's source weren't even trying to hide the fact that what they were doing was committing sexual harassment.


I know personally too many other women who have been raped. Two were raped, then brutally murdered. And while, thank Goodness, I haven't been raped myself, someone has tried to get in my pants despite my making it very, very clear very frequently that I do not want such attention, and des
I was going to make a point, but I just realized that I wasn't even legal in that state oh god jesus how long was he thinking about that TIME FOR A NINTENDO BINGE

 

[drivebymessiah]

I think many commentators haven't seen the original footage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SLDgPbjp0M

In a nutshell: A pudgy guy that looked a little bit like Gimli has no idea how to treat women and acts out his sexual interest in a female gaming colleague by making mildly sexually charged comments and questions for the better part of 15 minutes. The girl, at first, nervously laughs and later starts responding with half rejection. She's young and unassertive and doesn't seem to know how to say, "Stop. You're making me uncomfortable." The perpetrator, Aris, was clearly harassing the female colleague. However, there's no shortage of creeps in the world - there's no shortage of brazen creeps in gaming and people should be able to establish boundaries. This is not an excuse for offensive behavior - just pragmatism.

On another note: I have been a part of online gaming since online gaming existed. I miss, what I initially experienced, the culture of gentlemanly nerdom. Those days, though, are long done. Anyone who has been a player in several popular games in the last 5 years knows that the incident in question is pretty tame compared to what you and I have probably witnessed and been subjected to. I'm not a woman and haven't been spared by, what I guess would qualify as verbal assaults smacking of sexually indiscriminate sociopathy. Veteran internet gamers, you know what I'm talking about, the type of vile sexually charged verbal assaults that I can't say I've ever seen or heard anything that can hold candle to the level of contained obscenity in television, film, or literature. Now, knowing what kind of interaction goes down regularly in various gaming communities the thing that strikes me is that there's a large controversy when it happens to a young cute girl. It indicates that the progressive opinion is that negative sexism is abhorrent, particularly when it is levied in the traditional manner of being from men to women. The usual graphic explanations of how defeated opponents "got raped" in a thousand instances a day between generally male gamers isn't worth mention.

 

[Verzin]

I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

who gives a shit if 'trash talking' is expected? It's still immature, pathetic, and totally unacceptable in sports. Off the 'field' is one thing, but there is no excuse for behavior like this. It's bullshit.

Remarks that are designed to hurt or throw someone off their game should not be tolerated in the e-sports community. It's disturbing to see the sheer number of absolute shitbags that proliferate in online games, let alone see that sort of behavior in people who play games in a more public forum.

I'm sick of it. 'Toughen up' is not an acceptable solution. The sort of public humiliation that that girl got is bullshit.

EDIT: sorry if my post is not entirely coherent. this kind of shit tends to draw rage and profanity out of me in disturbing amounts. I've seen too much of this behavior. I don't understand these shitbags. I just don't get it.

 

[Phasmal]

This shit made me feel depressed.
Not as depressed as when all the guys came out flocking to defend, not the person being sexually harrassed, but the behaviour of the disgusting dude himself.
It's just rationalising horrible behaviour and reinforcing that women should just `deal with it` or `they don't belong in the gaming community`.

It's just stupid. We ignore this behaviour and let it continue.

I'm tired of it.

We're supposed to be an accepting community. So why do we ignore the crap that gets thrown at female members of our community?