Cryptic: Star Trek Online's PVP Sucks
- Thread starter The Wooster
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I don't think improving the PVP alone will help players Engage.The Pinray said:
Seriously, that whole game needs a good coat of polish. It's got a sound core to it, and some very nifty ideas to make internet spaceships accessible without a calculator and spread sheet (I'm sorry my old friend Eve, but you are a game for nerds that other nerds make fun of). But it does feel very much like a free-to-play game when you play it.
I did the STO Beta, and signed up for lifetime subscriptiion when it went gold ($300, and got some nifty in game items to boot). Boy when they went free to play I'd have been pissed if not for the fact I didn't last in the game 6 months.
My thoughts, and to recap what others have said
THe Space combat is a lot of fun, and the ship customization is decent, I even liked the whole idea of having differnt bridge crew who would in turn bring different abilities to the ship combat.
But ground comabt was kind of a drag, and those missions tended to be either very easy or very hard, there was no Middle ground. I'd have loved to play Klingon side, but I really don't like PvP and my understanding is that side is PvP or bust.
THey loaded a lot into the game, but even at release the game was far from polished, and once you've done the missions, if you create another character, youjust do the same missions again. . And at the time I hit the level cap (then 45) there wasn't much end of game content. I did most of it solo. Keep meaning to check back on it (Returned last year for a free weekend, but it didn't keep my interest)
To date I've played 3 MMOs, City Of Heroes (Which I still play), STO, and Star Wars TOR (Which I still enjoy but don't have a lot of time for).
CoH is my fave, Star Wars is decent (Is slick and flashy but I have a few issues with limited content, mission and team mechanics), and Star Trek, imo, was loaded with potential it just never met.
My thoughts, and to recap what others have said
THe Space combat is a lot of fun, and the ship customization is decent, I even liked the whole idea of having differnt bridge crew who would in turn bring different abilities to the ship combat.
But ground comabt was kind of a drag, and those missions tended to be either very easy or very hard, there was no Middle ground. I'd have loved to play Klingon side, but I really don't like PvP and my understanding is that side is PvP or bust.
THey loaded a lot into the game, but even at release the game was far from polished, and once you've done the missions, if you create another character, youjust do the same missions again. . And at the time I hit the level cap (then 45) there wasn't much end of game content. I did most of it solo. Keep meaning to check back on it (Returned last year for a free weekend, but it didn't keep my interest)
To date I've played 3 MMOs, City Of Heroes (Which I still play), STO, and Star Wars TOR (Which I still enjoy but don't have a lot of time for).
CoH is my fave, Star Wars is decent (Is slick and flashy but I have a few issues with limited content, mission and team mechanics), and Star Trek, imo, was loaded with potential it just never met.
My wife and I started STO with the intent to play each other, but after hearing others talk about the crap PVP, we decided not to do it and so we've never really touched it. We now spend our spousal time helping each other complete missions, which is probably more beneficial to the health of our marriage lolz.
On the harder difficulties, each time your ship is destroyed, your overall "ship" receives "injuries" which you have to fix with components. I generally don't see a problem with no penalties on the easier difficulties for I tend to just have fun in the universe lol. Although, I love getting the components because they sell like mad crazy on the exchange.ASnogarD said:
The probably failed to learn the lesson of every MMO since the days of MUDs. PVE systems applied to PVP just don't work. Either the game is built from the ground up for PVP like Guild Wars, and the pve sucks balls, OR the game is built from the ground up for PVE like WoW and the PVP sucks balls.
WoW is moving in the right direction with the pokemon introduction. There is nothing wrong with having two distinct systems for PVE and PVP. And the ability to earn items for each system by doing the other works just fine.
WoW is moving in the right direction with the pokemon introduction. There is nothing wrong with having two distinct systems for PVE and PVP. And the ability to earn items for each system by doing the other works just fine.
He's not wrong - PvP is a mess in STO. The KDF is vastly outnumbered by the Federation, so much so that they had to add "War Games" that allow Fed vs. Fed, and most of the Federation is busy working on their far superior missions.
Here's Cryptic's todo list for STO:
Make players want to PvP.
Bring the Klingon missions on par with the Federation's.
Work on ground combat, because it's a mess too!
Here's Cryptic's todo list for STO:
Make players want to PvP.
Bring the Klingon missions on par with the Federation's.
Work on ground combat, because it's a mess too!
There is no penalty in PvP though. No Item decay or anything. You can just respawn.ShinobiJedi42 said:
And PvP in STO went down hill when they nerfed the crap out of the KDFs entire range of ships because they were ''too powerful'' they were not they had less survivability than their counterparts because of the cloaking ability (which was later given to the other faction anyway without nerfing their ships )
And now there's a whole load of pay to win ships that are only available to the one faction including one that basically negates the cloaking ability, which has no KDF counterpart.
So all in all its a cluster fuck with the tables turned firmly into one factions side.
Grey Carter said:
Do you notice the issue here? The developer himself says that it would not affect the game to remove PvP, yet you claim that it's refreshing to see a developer criticize an aspect of the game *that doesn't affect the subscriber rate*.Grey Carter said:
It would be like if nobody used vanity pets in WoW and a developer criticized vanity pets. That's not exactly the cutting edge of self-criticism.
High level PVP was a joke.
I never fought in a fight that wasn't a complete wipe.
Either we'd mop the floor with the hostiles or they'd mop the floor with us.
The problem is scale and rewards.
Its just 5 V 5 fights, up that to 20 v 20 or if possible and you get epic space battles
You don't get enough out of it, just dilithium and credits.
People play STF dungeons because they can get unique item sets that quite honestly look cool.
Maybe have some PVP specific gear that you unlock. You can even recycle the system, where if you win you get a chanced based drop of a requistion that you can turn in for stuff you want.
I never fought in a fight that wasn't a complete wipe.
Either we'd mop the floor with the hostiles or they'd mop the floor with us.
The problem is scale and rewards.
Its just 5 V 5 fights, up that to 20 v 20 or if possible and you get epic space battles
You don't get enough out of it, just dilithium and credits.
People play STF dungeons because they can get unique item sets that quite honestly look cool.
Maybe have some PVP specific gear that you unlock. You can even recycle the system, where if you win you get a chanced based drop of a requistion that you can turn in for stuff you want.
Yeah, that explains a bit of a philosophical problem with Star Trek Online.MailOrderClone said:
Star Trek is, 90% of the time based around the idea of a single starship, going around the place by itself.
On rare occasions you get massive fleet engagements, but it's not a common thing.
However, a starship itself is a cooperative effort, since all the crew members have to work together to accomplish a mission.
Yet, the STO setup makes everyone the captain of a starship... While I see why they did it, it's the arrangement that causes the biggest conflict between the purpose of an MMO, and the setting.
Why would you have multiple captains, each with their own ship, going around all over the place together?
It does strange things to the setting.
Yet, what's resulted instead is that you can do pretty much the whole game by yourself. Makes sense in context, but as you said, for an MMO, that's kind of missing the point.
I don't know. Every time I see STO in action... While Í'm impressed it exists at all, it also makes me sad that the original concept for it, (before cryptic took over) has more or less been lost entirely.
Thinking back on that, I suspect a single-player (or at most, small-scale multiplayer) star Trek RPG could be great.
STO however, just isn't. It's too much of a compromise between it's setting/premise, and MMO game mechanics.
Basically creating the worst of both worlds.
I think the root of the problem is that Star Trek Online's PvP conflicts with what Cryptic does to market the game, selling it as a a Star Trek show where you're the captain. so the question is, where do all these other people fit in?
almost every mission can be played solo, so why are these players even here if that's the message Cryptic is trying to send.
almost every mission can be played solo, so why are these players even here if that's the message Cryptic is trying to send.
I toyed with the idea of playing this, but I just couldn't bring myself to going through all the trouble and hassle to download it. I mean such an arduous task of clicking the mouse and spending a good 20 minutes time investment nursing the download by verifying each and every packet was correctly transported to my location... Sorry just couldn't justify the time.
I may be one of the very few (or insane) that think that the game is pretty decent, I know it has many flaws, but I like the game as it is.
Also, what's to lose?, it's free.
Granted, I haven't touched PVP since it's not my thing in the first place and for lack of interest in it, so if it dissapears, it certainly won't cripple my enjoyment of the game itself.
Also, what's to lose?, it's free.
Granted, I haven't touched PVP since it's not my thing in the first place and for lack of interest in it, so if it dissapears, it certainly won't cripple my enjoyment of the game itself.
You know you can download it through Steam [http://store.steampowered.com/app/9900/], right?, or are you referring to the patching process, wich by itself isn't too big in the first place.porpoise hork said:
Never played ST:O, but given how problematic PvP was in Champions Online, it isn't surprising.
Actually CO's PvP had a lot of potential--the cage match you can participate in by level 10 was one of the more clever PvP maps I've played, especially with flying powers at the get-go. The other PvP maps that came later were also pretty good. Maybe not as good as battlegrounds in World of Warcraft, but better than Warhammer Online's scenarios, and more interesting than WoW arenas.
But the imbalances and broken powers in Champion's started out noticeable at level 10 and only got worse as you leveled up. They broke the game--and it felt like Cryptic was clueless how to do anything about it, or even why it should.
Bottom line, they do roleplay, not PvP.
Actually CO's PvP had a lot of potential--the cage match you can participate in by level 10 was one of the more clever PvP maps I've played, especially with flying powers at the get-go. The other PvP maps that came later were also pretty good. Maybe not as good as battlegrounds in World of Warcraft, but better than Warhammer Online's scenarios, and more interesting than WoW arenas.
But the imbalances and broken powers in Champion's started out noticeable at level 10 and only got worse as you leveled up. They broke the game--and it felt like Cryptic was clueless how to do anything about it, or even why it should.
Bottom line, they do roleplay, not PvP.
eh
never played STO, but, on the whole, i don't see what PvP adds to any MMO.
cept one more lame set of what ever to grind for, yeah, -.- big thing there ...
never played STO, but, on the whole, i don't see what PvP adds to any MMO.
cept one more lame set of what ever to grind for, yeah, -.- big thing there ...