Curious about the music industry? Find out stuff.

[BonsaiK]

Knowledge

Neato!!

A follow up question, how does one get their music to DJs?

I'm guessing (apart from being shit hot at production.. Still working on that part ) it all comes down to networking?

Yeah, basically. Go to clubs, find DJs who are playing your sort of stuff, and hand your shit to them, preferably in a DJ-friendly format. Not many club DJs will turn down free shit. Also, listen to your local radio stations, find out the DJs that play your thing, and ring them up, tell them you dig their show and you've got something for them (there's a post a page or two back specifically about what to do/not do when handing your stuff into a radio station if you're interested), then mail it in, or hand-deliver it yourself if they're not too far away. Also try and make DJ friends. Easy to do, just get talking about music...

 

[Squidwogdog]

I just picked up bass guitar and I was wondering how much experience or what techniques I would need before considering joining a band?

Also I applaud you on your dedication in following this thread

 

[BonsaiK]

I just picked up bass guitar and I was wondering how much experience or what techniques I would need before considering joining a band?

Also I applaud you on your dedication in following this thread

Cheers!

You will absolutely need a good sense of rhythm perception, and the ability to play with other people. If you've got those two things, then go for it, the rest you can pick up along the way. Certain styles require fairly technical bass guitar, but most styles do not, and to be honest simple is often better - let the guitarist and vocalist wank off while you hold down the rhythm. Being in a band of any kind will make you a better bass player, more so than any amount of lessons, and you should do it as soon as possible.

 

[Shivarage]

I hope that all made some sort of sense. I guess the way to summarise the concept would be to say that we don't "hire someone that sounds like x", we try to "hire someone who IS x".

You just blew a whole galaxy up inside my head... O_O

 

[MisterGobbles]

Do you think that thrash metal is about due for a revival, given that it's popularity peaked around 20 years ago?

 

[BonsaiK]

Do you think that thrash metal is about due for a revival, given that it's popularity peaked around 20 years ago?

What, you haven't heard of Municipal Waste?


The thrash revival is already here.

 

[Ham_authority95]

What would you need to know/do/think about/suck on if you were to start your own label? I have terrible business skills, so while I wouldn't actually want to start a label, I'd like to hear what you know.

 

[Chunga the Great]

If I'm recording an electric guitar, should I mic the amp or record directly into a computer?

Excellant thread. As an aspiring professional, I have many questions about the music industry.

 

[BonsaiK]

What would you need to know/do/think about/suck on if you were to start your own label? I have terrible business skills, so while I wouldn't actually want to start a label, I'd like to hear what you know.

I think the main thing would be to define a goal, what do you want your label to actually do. It helps if you're doing something unique. There are already a bunch of really big labels that deal with the ultra-commercial aspect of things plus a whole lot of less commercial stuff too (usually via imprints). You can either try to compete directly with that, or, you can try and do something that they are not doing. Many people who started labels including myself did it not primarily for financial reasons but because there was music out there that they liked which they realised was never going to get heard if they didn't start a label.

All the 'business' stuff can be learned by doing, that's how I learned to do it. I have no formal business qualifications and I even failed accounting classes at school. Most of the business skills you need in the real world are just a combination of common sense, making sure you keep records of everything, and budgeting skills i.e not throwing money around stupidly. Anything that gets really horribly complicated in terms of bookwork you can always hire an accountant to sort out, but if you're good at keeping track of things and your operation is fairly small you may not ever need one.

Also, you're probably going to need some start-up funds. I worked in the straight world for a few years to build up the cash to get started, that's a good way. A label usually doesn't make decent money until you've got a fair few releases out (and even then it often still doesn't) so be aware that money you spend you may or may not see back... or you might see it back in spades if you get lucky, but that comes with its own set of problems. If one of your artists gets popular, how will you cope, logistically? You can't spend all day putting paper slips in jewel cases... or can you?

Small labels may also want to think about image and aesthetics, it's not vital and labels can function without it, but a well-maintained brand becomes something that consumers trust. I know I've purchased music that I'd never heard of before simply because it was on the same label as other music that I liked, so I considered it a safe bet. Also, think about how heavily you want to get involved in the artistic side of things, do you want to leave it to the bands, and if you do, what will you do if a band comes up with an idea that you think is completely abhorrent and unacceptable?

I could dribble on for ages about this, I haven't even scratched the surface really, there's so much stuff I've left out. Your question is extremely broad, to get more precise answers you'll need to be a bit more specific.

 

[BonsaiK]

If I'm recording an electric guitar, should I mic the amp or record directly into a computer?

Excellant thread. As an aspiring professional, I have many questions about the music industry.

Unlike a lot of other instruments, guitars are designed to be heard with the distinctive colouration that amplification provides. The only time I wouldn't mic an amplifier is if I wanted a 100% completely clean sound AND the amp I was using sounded like rubbish, but even a small amp can get a good sound if you place your mic correctly. Especially if the amp has valves in it, you MUST mic it. There's no golden rule for micing that works in every situation, but as a general rule you want a dynamic mic (I recommend the Shure SM57 to mic guitars) as close to the speaker as you can get it, but not pointing dead at the middle of the speaker, off to the side of the cone a little, or on an angle, is usually a much nicer sound. Experiment with placement and find out what sounds best. And don't be fooled into thinking that small amp=small sound, no way. You'd be amazed at some of the classic metal albums which were recorded using amps smaller than the screen you are reading this on.

Feel free to ask more questions if you want, that's what this thread is for. Read back through it first though, as many questions have probably been answered.

 

[Ham_authority95]

snip

Okay....

Location: Where do I set up the home base? An office on a college campus? My garage? Wherevers cheapest(being the aformentioned garage)?

Who to know/hire: Where do I find useful contacts and employees? Put an ad in the paper stating "Record label wants YOU! Must know shit about the music we do!"??? Or hire people I personally know can do the job?

Distribution: Should I just make my own units in my room and sell them like Brian Sagel did with the Metal Blade label? Or go bothering bigger labels? Or does it depend on how big my distribution range is?

 

[Ham_authority95]

What would you need to know/do/think about/suck on if you were to start your own label? I have terrible business skills, so while I wouldn't actually want to start a label, I'd like to hear what you know.

I think the main thing would be to define a goal, what do you want your label to actually do. It helps if you're doing something unique. There are already a bunch of really big labels that deal with the ultra-commercial aspect of things plus a whole lot of less commercial stuff too (usually via imprints). You can either try to compete directly with that, or, you can try and do something that they are not doing. Many people who started labels including myself did it not primarily for financial reasons but because there was music out there that they liked which they realised was never going to get heard if they didn't start a label.

All the 'business' stuff can be learned by doing, that's how I learned to do it. I have no formal business qualifications and I even failed accounting classes at school. Most of the business skills you need in the real world are just a combination of common sense, making sure you keep records of everything, and budgeting skills i.e not throwing money around stupidly. Anything that gets really horribly complicated in terms of bookwork you can always hire an accountant to sort out, but if you're good at keeping track of things and your operation is fairly small you may not ever need one.

Also, you're probably going to need some start-up funds. I worked in the straight world for a few years to build up the cash to get started, that's a good way. A label usually doesn't make decent money until you've got a fair few releases out (and even then it often still doesn't) so be aware that money you spend you may or may not see back... or you might see it back in spades if you get lucky, but that comes with its own set of problems. If one of your artists gets popular, how will you cope, logistically? You can't spend all day putting paper slips in jewel cases... or can you?

Small labels may also want to think about image and aesthetics, it's not vital and labels can function without it, but a well-maintained brand becomes something that consumers trust. I know I've purchased music that I'd never heard of before simply because it was on the same label as other music that I liked, so I considered it a safe bet. Also, think about how heavily you want to get involved in the artistic side of things, do you want to leave it to the bands, and if you do, what will you do if a band comes up with an idea that you think is completely abhorrent and unacceptable?

I could dribble on for ages about this, I haven't even scratched the surface really, there's so much stuff I've left out. Your question is extremely broad, to get more precise answers you'll need to be a bit more specific.

Also, how would I make a contract to give to the band whenever I would sign them? Have an industry lawyer on-hand to help me compose it?

 

[BonsaiK]

snip

Okay....

Location: Where do I set up the home base? An office on a college campus? My garage? Wherevers cheapest(being the aformentioned garage)?

Who to know/hire: Where do I find useful contacts and employees? Put an ad in the paper stating "Record label wants YOU! Must know shit about the music we do!"??? Or hire people I personally know can do the job?

Distribution: Should I just make my own units in my room and sell them like Brian Sagel did with the Metal Blade label? Or go bothering bigger labels? Or does it depend on how big my distribution range is?

Home base is the cheapest place you can possibly get. All you need is a computer and some storage room. Your average domestic bedroom and garage is fine. Don't rent office space, fuck no. Starting out there's absolutely no way you'll be able to afford that and no reason to have an office anyway. Save that stuff for if you start making serious money, until then a house is fine. Back when I was doing my label on my own I used to run my stuff out of one room in a share house, and I'd sleep there too. That room got pretty crowded. but it was doable, the most awkward thing about it was explaining to visitors what all the cardboard boxes were for.

When you first start you won't have money to pay staff, so you won't have staff. What you'll find though is that bands you're involved with don't mind helping you, because it helps them. When I released I think my second album on my own label, I had a ton of jewel cases and a ton of artwork that I had to piece together. I started doing it myself and then after 15 minutes thought "fuck this" so I invited the band around to my house for a "CD making party", bought them a couple slabs of beer and everyone sat around the lounge room and pieced together CDs, then got drunk after. I've done similar things more recently with merchandise - I'll sit there with the band on my computer and design their merch on Photoshop, and then we'll actually make the stuff up ourselves in an afternoon - stickers, badges, etc. - we get a little production line going. It's kind of fun and camaraderie-building, and it saves money that I'd normally spend getting some company to do it (and probably fuck it up, too), and the band benefit too because they get to decide exactly how it gets put together, they feel a bit more of an emotional attachment to the finished product if they just spent a few hours putting it together.

If you are lucky enough to get to the "hiring" stage (i.e you can actually afford paid staff), it's like any other business. Hire based on who can do the job. You would only put an ad in the paper as an absolute last resort. I've never seen any labels other than majors advertise in papers, trade publications, the Internet etc. - and even then, only very rarely (because they get fucking inundated). The person you know is usually a safer bet than some stranger, and because you already have a music network by this point you know which friends you can trust, who's a junkie, who isn't, who is more likely to work hard or goof off, etc. If you're running a record label you'll never have to look for staff, people will be offering you their services all the time. Can't count how many times people have asked to work for me, I'm really glad my label merged because now nobody asks me that shit anymore.

Distribution can be done yourself, but it's a pain, and if you want decent coverage, fairly impossible to do on your own unless you want to drive around the country all week and talk to shops, or you're content with using the Internet. Therefore, most small labels selling physical product do distribution deals, where a company will buy your stock (on consignment, so that way they carry no risk) and then place it on a catalogue somewhere and put it on shelves for you. Bands sometimes pursue this option on their lonesome, and a distribution deal is the simplest kind of "record contract", which returns a significant portion of the money to the artist, however, the distributor doesn't promote, they only distribute. Another option is to set up a physical shop yourself, but then you're running a shop and running a shop is a whole different ball game... most people get into this business because they are trying to avoid retail work, not to start doing more of it, heh...

 

[BonsaiK]

Also, how would I make a contract to give to the band whenever I would sign them? Have an industry lawyer on-hand to help me compose it?

This may surprise you, and it probably goes against everything that Music Industry 101 Semester 1 ever taught you, but I never did that with the bands on my label. The label I work for now doesn't do it either. Our philosophy is "if we feel like we need it in writing, why the fuck are we working with these people anyway?". If I don't know and trust a group, I won't even take them on. That's an unusual approach, but it's not unprecedented for labels dealing in any sort of underground music scene, and I know of other labels including some quite successful ones who have done it in the past. I've only been burnt one time by a band by operating this way, and I think I would have been burnt there anyway, contract or not. In any event a contract provides me with no real protection as I don't have the money to take people to court. If someone really fucks me over, I won't pursue legal avenues, there's plenty of other ways I can make an artist suffer financially if it really must come to that.

Where contracts do become necessary in my case is not between the label and the bands, but between the label and the distributor, because that's how they operate. Also, I don't know them personally that well, it's more "businesslike" so I don't mind dealing with contracts there and so forth because I don't trust them anyway so it's okay.

 

[Ham_authority95]

Also, how would I make a contract to give to the band whenever I would sign them? Have an industry lawyer on-hand to help me compose it?

This may surprise you, and it probably goes against everything that Music Industry 101 Semester 1 ever taught you, but I never did that with the bands on my label. The label I work for now doesn't do it either. Our philosophy is "if we feel like we need it in writing, why the fuck are we working with these people anyway?". If I don't know and trust a group, I won't even take them on. That's an unusual approach, but it's not unprecedented for labels dealing in any sort of underground music scene, and I know of other labels including some quite successful ones who have done it in the past. I've only been burnt one time by a band by operating this way, and I think I would have been burnt there anyway, contract or not. In any event a contract provides me with no real protection as I don't have the money to take people to court. If someone really fucks me over, I won't pursue legal avenues, there's plenty of other ways I can make an artist suffer financially if it really must come to that.

Where contracts do become necessary in my case is not between the label and the bands, but between the label and the distributor, because that's how they operate. Also, I don't know them personally that well, it's more "businesslike" so I don't mind dealing with contracts there and so forth because I don't trust them anyway so it's okay.

I kind of figured as much. Any label that is being started in a garage somewhere shouldn't have a bunch of legal shit to go through.

Another question: How much money is involved in all of this? Less than a thousand?

 

[BonsaiK]

Another question: How much money is involved in all of this? Less than a thousand?

More. Just one minimum-quantity pressing (which is usually 500 discs, not many plants will agree to do less than that) of one artist will cost over a thousand, and that's just CDs, that doesn't include art, which can sometimes cost a lot more than the CD itself depending on what the artist/label wants it to look like. Costs have come down since I was doing it all myself though but even if you did get it under $1000 you wouldn't see much change, and then you got to convince people to buy enough of the shit to recoup your costs before you can afford to make more (plus there's the whole "needing money to live" thing). The only way you can start up for less than $1500 would be to burn onto CD-R, or just deal exclusively through the Internet.

 

[Ham_authority95]

The only way you can start up for less than $1500 would be to burn onto CD-R, or just deal exclusively through the Internet.

How much would you reccomend doing either of those things?

 

[MisterGobbles]

Going off of the whole label thing, how much of the profits would you want your label to take?

 

[BonsaiK]

The only way you can start up for less than $1500 would be to burn onto CD-R, or just deal exclusively through the Internet.

How much would you reccomend doing either of those things?

If you're only doing very tiny quantities, CD-Rs are great. Get a stack of CD-Rs, a colour printer and you theoretically don't need pressing plants at all. Where this doesn't work so well is when you start dealing in larger quantities, creating triple-digits of CDs isn't viable by CD-R simply because of cost. Via the improvised production line method stated earlier it's sill possible, but there's no point actually doing it because it works out more expensive than just getting a pressing plant to do the work once you get into those sort of quantities.

Internet's fine, after all it's the way young people buy (and not buy) music now. Also there's no manufacture cost which is great, and there's no point worrying about piracy here as opposed to CD-R because it'll get pirated straight away no matter what the format. However lack of physical product still puts off some buyers, mainly older ones who see MP3s as another step in the wrong direction after CDs replaced vinyl as the format of choice. I use Internet as an option for my customers but I make sure there's a physical product too. Some people even buy both...

 

[BonsaiK]

Going off of the whole label thing, how much of the profits would you want your label to take?

All of it until expenses in manufacture are repaid (which isn't that many sales tbh), then I'll split 50/50 with the artist. That's very generous, and that's because the label I work for is small. Larger labels don't have a profit-share anything even remotely that good, the artist would be extremely fortunate to get 10%.