Curious about the music industry? Find out stuff.

[Ham_authority95]

In terms of stage presence and performance, is there any "forbidden" things that a person should never do?

Besides having sex with goats on stage...(and even some Black Metal bands do that shit).

 

[BonsaiK]

But I am interested in doing stuff like this:

Yeah, you could do stuff like that. There's actually a market for that.

 

[BonsaiK]

In terms of stage presence and performance, is there any "forbidden" things that a person should never do?

Besides having sex with goats on stage...(and even some Black Metal bands do that shit).

They do? News to me, please post to a reliable source that claims this, I'm curious to know which band(s). To be honest, the most surprising and courageous thing I ever found out relating to a black metal band was Ghall's open homosexuality and clothing fashion label.

Things not to do onstage... be a rude **** to the people who paid for your tickets, that would be the main one. Most punk bands tell their audience to fuck off but it's all in jest really. Even G.G. Allin had a great respect for the people he was flinging his shit at, provided they stuck around to the end of the show. But if you are a genuine rude asshole onstage that will cost you fans. I can think of at least one well-known internationally touring artist who pretty much killed his career by being an asshole onstage (no names). I remember watching his show and thinking "wow, I'm being completely insulted for turning up" and sure enough that person's next album didn't sell much.

Tied to this, would be - don't neglect to tell an audience what's happening when an unplanned incident occurs, or if something is "wrong". If bouncers are beating up the punters without due cause, don't just let it happen, as an artist you actually have the power to prevent that. If you've got a cold and your voice sucks, tell your audience. If your drummer broke his leg, don't let the audience sit there wondering what the fuck is happening. Etc.

Lastly, if only one person rocks up to your show (and that will happen), or if people are walking out or whatever, don't have a hissy fit onstage - play the same show you would do for three people that you would do for 500 people. The people who did show up probably said no to all their friends and decided to see you instead of doing whatever more popular activity their friends were doing, so they don't deserve to be punished or short-changed just because your ego isn't being fed.

There's probably more I could add to the list but those are the really big ones.

 

[Ham_authority95]

Lastly, if only one person rocks up to your show (and that will happen), or if people are walking out or whatever, don't have a hissy fit onstage - play the same show you would do for three people that you would do for 500 people. The people who did show up probably said no to all their friends and decided to see you instead of doing whatever more popular activity their friends were doing, so they don't deserve to be punished or short-changed just because your ego isn't being fed.

Heh, luckily, I've played enough live shows that I'm used to this. In fact, its more personal and you can joke around more the fewer people there are...

Thanks for the response. As for the Black Metal thing, I exaggerated that for humor. I'm not surprised that Gorgoroth does that stuff for some reason. Maybe its because I think that people who go up on stage and try to act evil are always hiding something less acceptable...

Oh, and what "jokes" are acceptable?

 

[MisterGobbles]

Lastly, if only one person rocks up to your show (and that will happen)

Hell, I'd just be glad someone actually turned up to my gig. And if there are very few people, it's REALLY NOTICEABLE if they walk out, so the pressure of not offending the band might apply (although if you are really terrible even that's probably not going to stop them unless they're friends, and even then there's a limit).

 

[BonsaiK]

As for the Black Metal thing, I exaggerated that for humor. I'm not surprised that Gorgoroth does that stuff for some reason. Maybe its because I think that people who go up on stage and try to act evil are always hiding something less acceptable...

Oh, and what "jokes" are acceptable?

There's two reasons why a band might want to go onstage and "act evil":

1. Shock value/fun/laughs
2. Belief in "evil" or related things (satanism, etc) that may be perceived by some people as "evil", as some sort of religious, political or ideological statement

Having said that, surface perceptions are usually false, even in the second category. Here's Alice Cooper talking about black metal bands, and remember when watching that Cooper is both a born-again Christian as well as one of the original "evil" shock-rockers who horrified parents in the 60s and 70s:


It's not really a matter of bands "hiding" anything (Ghaal from Gorgoroth is openly gay for example, not in the closet), I think a more accurate way to say it is that no band who truly believes in what they're talking about would ever describe whatever they condone as "evil", because if they really felt that way about it, why would they believe it? Therefore some satan-worshipping black metal guy who is genuinely into that side of things probably sees no contradiction whatsoever in helping his grandmother cross the road before he goes out and hits the club that night to perform a bunch of satanic heavy metal songs. From that person's perspective, both of those things are "good" actions. I hope the way I'm explaining this makes sense, let me know if it doesn't.

Jokes: whatever you want, I guess. I suppose the same rules would apply as for stand-up comedy, in that there would be similar boundaries that you absolutely cannot cross (see Michael Richards) and also similar things that will fall flat (see Neil Hamburger, although he falls flat on purpose). I'm no expert in stand-up but I have some friends who do it and the good ones are able to tread the fine line between "too much" and "just enough" for maximum laughs without genuinely offending anybody with a brain. Most people in bands aren't that skilled at it though so most of them don't bother to go down this route, but some do, especially folk and country musicians who get to play with a quieter audience and format than other genres so talking to the audience for extended periods tends to go down better in that setting.

 

[Ham_authority95]

As for the Black Metal thing, I exaggerated that for humor. I'm not surprised that Gorgoroth does that stuff for some reason. Maybe its because I think that people who go up on stage and try to act evil are always hiding something less acceptable...

Oh, and what "jokes" are acceptable?

There's two reasons why a band might want to go onstage and "act evil":

1. Shock value/fun/laughs
2. Belief in "evil" or related things (satanism, etc) that may be perceived by some people as "evil", as some sort of religious, political or ideological statement

Having said that, surface perceptions are usually false, even in the second category. Here's Alice Cooper talking about black metal bands, and remember when watching that Cooper is both a born-again Christian as well as one of the original "evil" shock-rockers who horrified parents in the 60s and 70s:


It's not really a matter of bands "hiding" anything (Ghaal from Gorgoroth is openly gay for example, not in the closet), I think a more accurate way to say it is that no band who truly believes in what they're talking about would ever describe whatever they condone as "evil", because if they really felt that way about it, why would they believe it? Therefore some satan-worshipping black metal guy who is genuinely into that side of things probably sees no contradiction whatsoever in helping his grandmother cross the road before he goes out and hits the club that night to perform a bunch of satanic heavy metal songs. From that person's perspective, both of those things are "good" actions. I hope the way I'm explaining this makes sense, let me know if it doesn't.

Jokes: whatever you want, I guess. I suppose the same rules would apply as for stand-up comedy, in that there would be similar boundaries that you absolutely cannot cross (see Michael Richards) and also similar things that will fall flat (see Neil Hamburger, although he falls flat on purpose). I'm no expert in stand-up but I have some friends who do it and the good ones are able to tread the fine line between "too much" and "just enough" for maximum laughs without genuinely offending anybody with a brain. Most people in bands aren't that skilled at it though so most of them don't bother to go down this route, but some do, especially folk and country musicians who get to play with a quieter audience and format than other genres so talking to the audience for extended periods tends to go down better in that setting.

Nope, this makes sense. That video was a good explanation.

Most of the joking I do are just witty jests between songs, so it isn't like I'm talking their head off.

The questions I've been asking are just to make sure that I haven't done anything bad that I've never noticed, and so far, I haven't.

Thanks for the informative response!

 

[BonsaiK]

The questions I've been asking are just to make sure that I haven't done anything bad that I've never noticed, and so far, I haven't.

Don't worry - if you do, you'll probably know! Really bombing out on stage is like an orgasm - it's difficult to define precisely, but you definitely know when it happens to you.

 

[Ham_authority95]

The questions I've been asking are just to make sure that I haven't done anything bad that I've never noticed, and so far, I haven't.

Don't worry - if you do, you'll probably know! Really bombing out on stage is like an orgasm - it's difficult to define precisely, but you definitely know when it happens to you.

And I'll know how to not have another one, as well!

 

[Ham_authority95]

Once you've mixed all your thingies, you need to then put then into a 2-track format, or a master. You can do that on a computer easily, just connect your master outputs of your 8 track to your computer audio input, download something free like Audacity, press record on it, press play on your 8-track, mix away, export the result as .wav format, then you can made CDs out of it. Boo-ya.

Master at 44:1KHz by the way because that's CD format.

Any question, fire away. I think I covered a few important things but no doubt I could make this several more pages of tl;dr if I wanted to.

Concerning this, what would we do if we just recorded it into Audacity?

 

[Ham_authority95]

The most steady, lucrative jobs I've seen are:

* Anything for the government
* Administration/clerical

Note "performing" or "being a touring musician" doesn't appear anywhere on this list.

What do you mean by both of these? How would they be in line with the music industry?

 

[BonsaiK]

The most steady, lucrative jobs I've seen are:

* Anything for the government
* Administration/clerical

Note "performing" or "being a touring musician" doesn't appear anywhere on this list.

What do you mean by both of these? How would they be in line with the music industry?

EDIT: scratch that reply, just read the full OP.

Government = ABC, JJJ, things like that.

Admin/clerical, well everyone needs someone to answer the phone and keep the books no matter what business it is. Music industry is no different.

 

[Ham_authority95]

The most steady, lucrative jobs I've seen are:

* Anything for the government
* Administration/clerical

Note "performing" or "being a touring musician" doesn't appear anywhere on this list.

What do you mean by both of these? How would they be in line with the music industry?

EDIT: scratch that reply, just read the full OP.

Government = ABC, JJJ, things like that.

Admin/clerical, well everyone needs someone to answer the phone and keep the books no matter what business it is. Music industry is no different.

Okay, thanks.

Another question, if I want to get my band gigs how would I do that?

 

[BonsaiK]

Once you've mixed all your thingies, you need to then put then into a 2-track format, or a master. You can do that on a computer easily, just connect your master outputs of your 8 track to your computer audio input, download something free like Audacity, press record on it, press play on your 8-track, mix away, export the result as .wav format, then you can made CDs out of it. Boo-ya.

Master at 44:1KHz by the way because that's CD format.

Any question, fire away. I think I covered a few important things but no doubt I could make this several more pages of tl;dr if I wanted to.

Concerning this, what would we do if we just recorded it into Audacity?

As in multi-tracked into Audacity? You'd have to record one stereo pair at a time. Then gradually overdub. Not ideal for a full band, although it's do-able and I've done it in situations where budget and resources were slim.

 

[BonsaiK]

Another question, if I want to get my band gigs how would I do that?

Go to gigs yourself, that you like, that are local, with bands doing stuff like what you're doing, or that you could see yourself playing with. Make friends with bands you like, tell them you have a band and you wouldn't mind opening for one of their shows one day. Also talk to venue staff, ever venue has one person whose job it is to book acts there. Give them your demo if you've got one and something with your name and phone number on it.

 

[Ham_authority95]

Once you've mixed all your thingies, you need to then put then into a 2-track format, or a master. You can do that on a computer easily, just connect your master outputs of your 8 track to your computer audio input, download something free like Audacity, press record on it, press play on your 8-track, mix away, export the result as .wav format, then you can made CDs out of it. Boo-ya.

Master at 44:1KHz by the way because that's CD format.

Any question, fire away. I think I covered a few important things but no doubt I could make this several more pages of tl;dr if I wanted to.

Concerning this, what would we do if we just recorded it into Audacity?

As in multi-tracked into Audacity? You'd have to record one stereo pair at a time. Then gradually overdub. Not ideal for a full band, although it's do-able and I've done it in situations where budget and resources were slim.

Okay. Since our budget and resources are slim, we'll do it.

 

[Ham_authority95]

Another question, if I want to get my band gigs how would I do that?

Go to gigs yourself, that you like, that are local, with bands doing stuff like what you're doing, or that you could see yourself playing with. Make friends with bands you like, tell them you have a band and you wouldn't mind opening for one of their shows one day. Also talk to venue staff, ever venue has one person whose job it is to book acts there. Give them your demo if you've got one and something with your name and phone number on it.

Oh fuck, why hasn't it occured to me to just talk to another band that I know personally before?(and they're better than many metal bands where I live, even if their singer is only 15...)

Thanks. I'll yell at the band to get our asses in gear to get this demo made, then we can finally started with that "gigging" thing that has escaped us for so long...(I'll also try to post it to the Demo Submission thread)

 

[BonsaiK]

Once you've mixed all your thingies, you need to then put then into a 2-track format, or a master. You can do that on a computer easily, just connect your master outputs of your 8 track to your computer audio input, download something free like Audacity, press record on it, press play on your 8-track, mix away, export the result as .wav format, then you can made CDs out of it. Boo-ya.

Master at 44:1KHz by the way because that's CD format.

Any question, fire away. I think I covered a few important things but no doubt I could make this several more pages of tl;dr if I wanted to.

Concerning this, what would we do if we just recorded it into Audacity?

As in multi-tracked into Audacity? You'd have to record one stereo pair at a time. Then gradually overdub. Not ideal for a full band, although it's do-able and I've done it in situations where budget and resources were slim.

Okay. Since our budget and resources are slim, we'll do it.

I did this a while back with a thrash metal band out in a garage in a shitty part of town, they had no money to speak of, and therefore no hope in hell of getting into a studio, but really wanted to make an album. They did have a garage/rehearsal space, musical gear, and a laptop.

Here's how I did it: I put mics on the drums and made the whole band play all their songs, but only recorded the drums, with four mics (snare, bass and two overheads) which I then plugged into a cassette 4 track I brought with me, not for recording but so I could condense those 4 tracks into 2 tracks, then I went our from there into their shitty laptop, which I put Audacity on from a flash drive I always carry around. I'm recording with Audacity, not with the 4-track which is only there to bounce signal. There was a bit of a bleed-trough with the other instruments but fuck it, it's thrash metal, a bit of bleed in that style is no big deal. Once the drums were done, I played it back through headphones to the bassist who did all his bass on the second pass. Then again for the guitarist, I made him do everything twice so there were two guitar parts I could pan left and right for a fuller guitar sound, and then again for vocals. Took a couple of days. Then I burnt all the Audacity data to CD-Rs (the flash drive wasn't big enough), took it home and spent the next month's worth of evenings mixing it down. Boring as hell for everybody involved especially me, but the results were almost as good as a studio and the band spent no money except on stocking their beer fridge.

 

[BonsaiK]

Another question, if I want to get my band gigs how would I do that?

Go to gigs yourself, that you like, that are local, with bands doing stuff like what you're doing, or that you could see yourself playing with. Make friends with bands you like, tell them you have a band and you wouldn't mind opening for one of their shows one day. Also talk to venue staff, ever venue has one person whose job it is to book acts there. Give them your demo if you've got one and something with your name and phone number on it.

Oh fuck, why hasn't it occured to me to just talk to another band that I know personally before?(and they're better than many metal bands where I live, even if their singer is only 15...)

Thanks. I'll yell at the band to get our asses in gear to get this demo made, then we can finally started with that "gigging" thing that has escaped us for so long...(I'll also try to post it to the Demo Submission thread)

If you don't have a demo don't let that stop you from doing all the other steps. Word of mouth or a recommendation from another band is sometimes all it takes to get a gig, often you don't even need the demo. Often promoters will say to a band they know and trust "I want you and three other bands on for Friday night, you pick the bands to play with you, I don't care who they are as long as they don't suck and people come", so it's often not that hard to get friends in this situation to give you a shot. I've been in the situation many times where I've given friends the chance to open for my band, even if I've never heard their stuff, just for the sake of giving them a go.

 

[Ham_authority95]

Once you've mixed all your thingies, you need to then put then into a 2-track format, or a master. You can do that on a computer easily, just connect your master outputs of your 8 track to your computer audio input, download something free like Audacity, press record on it, press play on your 8-track, mix away, export the result as .wav format, then you can made CDs out of it. Boo-ya.

Master at 44:1KHz by the way because that's CD format.

Any question, fire away. I think I covered a few important things but no doubt I could make this several more pages of tl;dr if I wanted to.

Concerning this, what would we do if we just recorded it into Audacity?

As in multi-tracked into Audacity? You'd have to record one stereo pair at a time. Then gradually overdub. Not ideal for a full band, although it's do-able and I've done it in situations where budget and resources were slim.

Okay. Since our budget and resources are slim, we'll do it.

I did this a while back with a thrash metal band out in a garage in a shitty part of town, they had no money to speak of, and therefore no hope in hell of getting into a studio, but really wanted to make an album. They did have a garage/rehearsal space, musical gear, and a laptop.

Here's how I did it: I put mics on the drums and made the whole band play all their songs, but only recorded the drums, with four mics (snare, bass and two overheads) which I then plugged into a cassette 4 track I brought with me, not for recording but so I could condense those 4 tracks into 2 tracks, then I went our from there into their shitty laptop, which I put Audacity on from a flash drive I always carry around. I'm recording with Audacity, not with the 4-track which is only there to bounce signal. There was a bit of a bleed-trough with the other instruments but fuck it, it's thrash metal, a bit of bleed in that style is no big deal. Once the drums were done, I played it back through headphones to the bassist who did all his bass on the second pass. Then again for the guitarist, I made him do everything twice so there were two guitar parts I could pan left and right for a fuller guitar sound, and then again for vocals. Took a couple of days. Then I burnt all the Audacity data to CD-Rs (the flash drive wasn't big enough), took it home and spent the next month's worth of evenings mixing it down. Boring as hell for everybody involved especially me, but the results were almost as good as a studio and the band spent no money except on stocking their beer fridge.

That sounds great. Since we're a Thrash Metal band as well, we might end up doing this exact same thing.

Some problems that we've been having is that the Bass sound has been really shitty for us whenever we've tracked it down. What we do is plug the Bal. line out from the amp into the mixing board, into the computer, and it always turns out sounding somewhere between unclear and fart-noise.