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Beartrucci

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Jun 19, 2009
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BonsaiK said:
Epic metal snip
Holy shit I need to copy paste this somewhere, could be very useful later on if me and my friends ever get around to recording anything.

Also, are there any particular sub-genres of metal that get favoured by record labels more than others?
 

BonsaiK

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Nov 14, 2007
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Thunderhorse94 said:
BonsaiK said:
Epic metal snip
Holy shit I need to copy paste this somewhere, could be very useful later on if me and my friends ever get around to recording anything.

Also, are there any particular sub-genres of metal that get favoured by record labels more than others?
Depends on a few things.

Firstly, the label. As I'm sure you've noticed if you're a metal fan, different metal labels tend to specialise in different subgenres. It's only the bigger labels such as Roadrunner, SPV and Century Media who will release anything in pretty much any style, and the first two also aren't afraid to sign stuff in genres other than metal to balance the books too.

Also, look at music trends. Look to the new bands being signed and touted as the next big thing who are just now releasing their first albums, and what sort of style they're doing, that's what's hot right now and what labels are looking for more of. By the time those bands get to album number three, you've missed the boat. Keep in mind though that you're probably not going to get really rich or successful doing metal even if you are able to ride some sort of fashionable wave, it's a niche genre and even the big bands don't always earn enough to make a living. You'd be frankly amazed how many people in extremely high-profile world famous metal bands still have day jobs, or do other work from time to time to get by.
 

Ziadaine_v1legacy

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Apr 11, 2009
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My Question: how does one even get into Radio. It's been a HUGE passion of mine but the local stations etc refuse to even hire the basic staff unless they've got something like 5-10 years experience in Radio networks.
 

BonsaiK

Music Industry Corporate Whore
Nov 14, 2007
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Ziadaine said:
My Question: how does one even get into Radio. It's been a HUGE passion of mine but the local stations etc refuse to even hire the basic staff unless they've got something like 5-10 years experience in Radio networks.
That's where community radio stations come in handy. Community stations are run often wholly by volunteer staff, contact one that you like the music/ethos of and ask how you can get involved. These places don't just need DJs but also technical staff, builders, admin staff, accountants, cleaners, you name it. If you've got a few years of community radio experience on your resume, that's experience you can then use to get your foot in the door in the paying world of commercial radio.
 

Troels Pleimert

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Jul 23, 2010
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This thread is great! Very interesting information, and it's always fun hearing the evils of the inside trade exposed.

I don't really have a question, but someone was requesting help on recording his metal band's demo on a tight budget, and I thought I could chime in on that.

I do home recordings and mixings frequently, in both electronic and heavy genres. You can actually get quite far with very little equipment, as long as you trust your instincts about "what sounds good" - and, of course, spend a bit of time practicing sound mixing. Here's a few hints on how to get a somewhat respectable-sounding record on a shoestring budget:

1. Get in good with someone who has a rehearsal space - and I mean the people running it, not just the other bands using it. Best way to do that is to get actively involved and help out with running it, not just using it for your own band. The practical upshot of this is that you're more likely to get permission to use the space as a temporary recording studio, and maybe borrowing some equipment (drum mics, amps, etc.)

2. BonsaiK is right; everybody playing at the same time makes for a smoother sounding record. And if it's at all possible, do it. Unfortuantely, that's not always the case when doing it down and dirty. For one, it takes A LONG time to mic up an entire band sensibly (the drums alone are fickle bastards). And if you're using a rehearsal space where other bands practice, they're sure to come in and fuck up your whole setup - unless of course you can somehow record your entire album in one sitting.

ANOTHER THING is that if you, like me, like playing several instruments at the same time, OR plan on adding synthesizer-stuff on top (requiring the drummer to play with a click track), you might find it a lot easier to do a layered recording where everyone plays separately. In some cases, being able to re-take every single element may in fact be a boon to your finished product, especially if you - like me - don't quite have the Hammett-fingers or the Portnoy-chops to do it perfect on the first or second take.

Remember, drums always go first! Even if you're playing with a click track. I cannot tell you how frustrating it is as a drummer to play after another instrument that's already been recorded. Click tracks are perfect; drummers - and other musicians, I don't care how talented they are - aren't! Laying down the drums first and the other instruments after will ensure that, even if your drummer is slightly off, the other instruments fall in nicely because they're playing to him, not the other way around.

3. As long as we've conceded to recording in layers, I'll dangerously venture forth with another concession (will it result in a concussion?): Don't be scared of software guitar amps. Amplitube and Guitar Rig are both great, and they enable you to record all the guitar (and bass!) stuff with your headphones on in your bedroom. There are many upshots to doing this -- most of them having to do with being able to take your sweet time and get shit done right. When you're doing heavy stuff, trust me, few people will notice the sonic difference between a real amp and a software one. Only downside: no great, squealy feedback before the first chord hits. ;)

4. Everything BonsaiK said about guitars in separate channels, kick and snare and vocals in the middle, everyone wanting to be the low guy, etc. - that's all true. Listen to this man. So many potentially great bands fuck up their first recordings by having a weird mix.

For instance, he really isn't kidding about recording the same guitar lines twice and mixing them into the left and right channels. If you just copy-paste the same take, the two waveforms are identical, and they'll end up cancelling each other out -- which means you'll wind up with an overly loud and crappy guitar in the center channel!

If you're doing metal and you want some extra oomph to your metal bass, but you don't have the pedals for it (like me), here's a little trick: in addition to the two guitar tracks you have in the left and right channels, do a third track for the center channel. Give this one a really gritty, grungey, almost growly distortion (there's a Guitar Rig preset called "In the desert" that's perfect for this), but EQ away its low end - so it's basically just a tinny, growly guitar noise. Then add clean bass on top of that, retaining its low end, so in the end it sounds like the bass is playing both distorted and clean - without expensive pedals or mic'ing up cabinets.

5. When you've recorded everything and are about to start mixing, bring in a friend who hasn't been involved with the recording process! Of course, if they know how to work the music software you're using, that's a plus. But really, what you're looking for here is a pair of fresh ears. You will almost inevitably have mixed either the drums or the vocals in too loud, and you will most certainly have lost all objectivity about your music after hours of microscopically twiddling volume knobs. Having someone around to tap you on your shoulders and say, "I think that's loud enough," or, conversely, "What the hell is that supposed to sound like?" is a huge plus.

6. If you're in this to make it big, do yourself a favor and quit right now. Seriously. No matter how good you, your friends, or even your small but dedicated fan-base think you are - you are not going to make it big, so quit dreaming. Release your music for free and make your money playing gigs. Have a steady day job on the side - this day job is the monetary foundation on which your music dreams feed.

7. Seriously. Release your music for free. You're not going to make any money off it, anyway. Nothing sucks more than discovering a decent, unheard-of band who are so conceited that they won't let you download their songs to put on your iPod. Use a Creative Commons license if you're so worried about people stealing your stellar riffs (it's free and legally sound globally, unlike the RIAA, IFPI, KODA, or whatever).

Alternately, use a service like BandCamp.com which connects directly to your PayPal account - enabling customers to pay you DIRECTLY for your music. But only do this once you're sure people will actually pay money for your music. More than often they won't, and you'll end up looking like a dork.

So that's my two cents... I hope I didn't steal any of BonsaiK's thunder, because I certainly didn't mean to. Keep up the stellar insights!
 

Ziadaine_v1legacy

Flamboyant Homosexual
Apr 11, 2009
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BonsaiK said:
Ziadaine said:
My Question: how does one even get into Radio. It's been a HUGE passion of mine but the local stations etc refuse to even hire the basic staff unless they've got something like 5-10 years experience in Radio networks.
That's where community radio stations come in handy. Community stations are run often wholly by volunteer staff, contact one that you like the music/ethos of and ask how you can get involved. These places don't just need DJs but also technical staff, builders, admin staff, accountants, cleaners, you name it. If you've got a few years of community radio experience on your resume, that's experience you can then use to get your foot in the door in the paying world of commercial radio.
That's the problem, long story short; I face eviction from home soon and need money as opposed to selling myself off like a whore for volunteering like I have been these past 3 years for various places.
 

Ham_authority95

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Dec 8, 2009
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BonsaiK said:
Ham_authority95 said:
BonsaiK said:
-holy shit snip-
Hope that helps. You probably have more specific questions about this so fire away.
Ok sweet. I'm now wondering about what equipment/ software we should buy to put the tracks on and mix them.

We're already getting an 8-track to try different guitar harmonies, but we'll probably need more than that.

P.S: If it helps, we're mostly influenced by Thrash Metal, melodic Death metal and metalcore, and other stuff like Mastodon.

P.S.S: We're VERY strapped for cash, with myself being the only solid income for the band. If you could recommend any cheaper gear, that would be nice.
If you're broke, use the 8-track, and whatever mics you got. It's only a demo. A demo is just to show someone what you can do, it doesn't have to be perfection.

1. Bass drum
2. Drum overhead left
3. Drum overhead right
4. Bass guitar
5. Guitar left
6. Guitar right
7. Vocal
8. Keep this channel for overdubs if you need them, or snare drum if you don't need overdubs. You could also use it for your guide vocal.

Mics, if you're really penny-pinching it just use SM57s for everything and an SM58 for vocals. They're not THAT expensive. But no electronics shop shit, I forbid it.

Audacity is a free download and works fine as something to mix your tracks down onto, then you can save your result in wav format and burn a CD from it. You can also use it to overdub but be aware that Audacity has some time-shift issues so you may need to edit after the fact. Hey it's free software so you get what you pay for. Oh and use the stable versions of Audacity not the fancy beta ones which are full of bugs.
I might have enough to D.I the bass, so could you explain to me what exactly you do to record D.I?
 

Datsle

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Feb 4, 2009
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Big thanks for this thread! One potentially silly question for you: if you record a band 'live' into several channels through mics. Do you need to isolate the instruments? Will the guitar mic pick up the drums and it somehow sound weird? Amateur band, and small rehearsal/ recordin space:/ thanks a ton again!
 

RhombusHatesYou

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Between There and There.
Country
The Wide, Brown One.
BonsaiK said:
You'd be frankly amazed how many people in extremely high-profile world famous metal bands still have day jobs, or do other work from time to time to get by.
And as a few musos I know will say, it's harder to run dole scams when you've had national exposure.
 

Lord George

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Aug 25, 2008
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I just realised your avatar is a cat, I've always assumed it was some strange logo, huh, but yeah question here.

How did you get into the music industry and any tips for getting a job in it, I've always wanted to be a journalist, songwriter, radio presenter or doing something in the business, but all the advice I've got so far seems to be "get a lucky break", which isn't too helpful.

Appreciate any response.
 

Troels Pleimert

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Jul 23, 2010
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Datsle said:
Big thanks for this thread! One potentially silly question for you: if you record a band 'live' into several channels through mics. Do you need to isolate the instruments? Will the guitar mic pick up the drums and it somehow sound weird? Amateur band, and small rehearsal/ recordin space:/ thanks a ton again!
Again, I'm not trying to steal anyone's thunder - I'm sure BonsaiK has a ton of tricks up his sleeve on this.

But as a rule, yeah, you definitely want to isolate the instruments as best you can. That's going to help tremendously in the mixing process. It can be a bit difficult if you're in a tight space, though, so here's a little hint: bring mattresses. As many as you can carry. Then try to box in the drum kit, especially in directions facing the amps.

With guitar and bass amps, the mic is often so close to the speaker in the amp that bleedthrough is neglible. Drums bleeding into the guitar sound is the most common problem, so you want to keep the drums as isolated as possible.
 

Datsle

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Feb 4, 2009
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Troels Pleimert said:
Datsle said:
Big thanks for this thread! One potentially silly question for you: if you record a band 'live' into several channels through mics. Do you need to isolate the instruments? Will the guitar mic pick up the drums and it somehow sound weird? Amateur band, and small rehearsal/ recordin space:/ thanks a ton again!
Again, I'm not trying to steal anyone's thunder - I'm sure BonsaiK has a ton of tricks up his sleeve on this.

But as a rule, yeah, you definitely want to isolate the instruments as best you can. That's going to help tremendously in the mixing process. It can be a bit difficult if you're in a tight space, though, so here's a little hint: bring mattresses. As many as you can carry. Then try to box in the drum kit, especially in directions facing the amps.

With guitar and bass amps, the mic is often so close to the speaker in the amp that bleedthrough is neglible. Drums bleeding into the guitar sound is the most common problem, so you want to keep the drums as isolated as possible.

Lol, mattresses in the rehearsal space could be quite problematic, but rockin' out shouldnt be easy i guess =P
 

Alex Cowan

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Feb 13, 2010
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I'm interested in entering the industry in the technical side, and I have experience using a lot of hardware and software, as well as doing some recording on my own, as I'mm a qualified musician as well. What would you recommend as the best way of getting a foot through the door into the recording industry?
 

II2

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Mar 13, 2010
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BonsaiK said:
If you want to work professionally in this area, computer and rack-mount gear is up to you (the pro stuff all does more or less the same shit anyway, so it's really just down to what interface you prefer, so get stuff that you're comfortable working with), but get the best possible condensor microphones you can afford - that's one area you shouldn't skimp. Of course, you already need to be getting paid work to justify that kind of expense so it's a chicken-and-egg situation. For sound effects I'd recommend a pair of Neumann KM-184s (so you have the choice of mono or stereo recording, although you'd be surprised how many studios are happy with mono) and for vocals a large-diaphragm Neumann like the TLM49 is unbeatable in my opinion. What you've got is reasonable and will get the job done but AT is cheaper for a reason. Oh and pad/soundproof the shit out of the room you're recording in. Ask me if you need soundproofing help and I'll go into more detail, it's not as simple as pouring concrete over everything.

(I haven't talked about recording industrial music etc because you seem to have that already well in hand. Nords are awesome, are they not?)
Cheers, thanks for the condenser mic recommendations.

Yeah, Nord's are beautiful instruments... without getting into the tech details, the red metal chasis is a beautiful, clean contrast to the genuine wooden pitch stick you can flick for natural vibrato and the sanded stone mod wheel. The natural materials are nice in metal and plastic land... Though the endless rotary LED potentiometers are both pretty and functional. Also, the morph group functions most of their instruments make expressive performance a breeze when a single knob, CC or function can modulate up to 16 parameters at once. Brilliant!

My first love:


Whom I sold to fund the upgrade to this:


Which, might not LOOK as impressive physically, but can do THIS:
 

Troels Pleimert

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Jul 23, 2010
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Datsle said:
Lol, mattresses in the rehearsal space could be quite problematic, but rockin' out shouldnt be easy i guess =P
Well, you're not supposed to lay them on the floor; you're supposed to prop them up next to the drum kit. Lean them against the amps if necessary. ;)

Mattresses are one of an amateur recordist's best friends. In larger rooms, putting mattresses around amps and drum kits will help dampen the natural reverb of the room. And if you're pulling a long night, they're useful for crashing on after a long session.
 

BonsaiK

Music Industry Corporate Whore
Nov 14, 2007
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Troels Pleimert said:
I generally agree with all of this.

The only thing you mentioned I'm not super-keen on is software amp simulators, but that's more of a personal preference rather than a hard and fast rule.

Thanks for your input!
 

BonsaiK

Music Industry Corporate Whore
Nov 14, 2007
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Ziadaine said:
BonsaiK said:
Ziadaine said:
My Question: how does one even get into Radio. It's been a HUGE passion of mine but the local stations etc refuse to even hire the basic staff unless they've got something like 5-10 years experience in Radio networks.
That's where community radio stations come in handy. Community stations are run often wholly by volunteer staff, contact one that you like the music/ethos of and ask how you can get involved. These places don't just need DJs but also technical staff, builders, admin staff, accountants, cleaners, you name it. If you've got a few years of community radio experience on your resume, that's experience you can then use to get your foot in the door in the paying world of commercial radio.
That's the problem, long story short; I face eviction from home soon and need money as opposed to selling myself off like a whore for volunteering like I have been these past 3 years for various places.
If you need money fast, forget the music industry. Seriously. Get some shitty job that pays well like call centre work, do that for a while, until you have a secure financial base from which to work. Then start pursuing your dreams with the disposable income.
 

BonsaiK

Music Industry Corporate Whore
Nov 14, 2007
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Ham_authority95 said:
BonsaiK said:
Ham_authority95 said:
BonsaiK said:
-holy shit snip-
Hope that helps. You probably have more specific questions about this so fire away.
Ok sweet. I'm now wondering about what equipment/ software we should buy to put the tracks on and mix them.

We're already getting an 8-track to try different guitar harmonies, but we'll probably need more than that.

P.S: If it helps, we're mostly influenced by Thrash Metal, melodic Death metal and metalcore, and other stuff like Mastodon.

P.S.S: We're VERY strapped for cash, with myself being the only solid income for the band. If you could recommend any cheaper gear, that would be nice.
If you're broke, use the 8-track, and whatever mics you got. It's only a demo. A demo is just to show someone what you can do, it doesn't have to be perfection.

1. Bass drum
2. Drum overhead left
3. Drum overhead right
4. Bass guitar
5. Guitar left
6. Guitar right
7. Vocal
8. Keep this channel for overdubs if you need them, or snare drum if you don't need overdubs. You could also use it for your guide vocal.

Mics, if you're really penny-pinching it just use SM57s for everything and an SM58 for vocals. They're not THAT expensive. But no electronics shop shit, I forbid it.

Audacity is a free download and works fine as something to mix your tracks down onto, then you can save your result in wav format and burn a CD from it. You can also use it to overdub but be aware that Audacity has some time-shift issues so you may need to edit after the fact. Hey it's free software so you get what you pay for. Oh and use the stable versions of Audacity not the fancy beta ones which are full of bugs.
I might have enough to D.I the bass, so could you explain to me what exactly you do to record D.I?
To D.I. means to record directly (Direct Input). As in, plug the bass guitar straight into the mixing board.

However, you may want to run your amp at the same time, that's where a D.I. box comes in. It takes a split from your bass guitar output that can go to a mixing desk, and also leaves another split which goes to your amplifier.

Some of the flashier bass amplifers have a built in DI output. They are usually XLR (three-pin microphone style connector). Check if your bass amp has one, it will be clearly labelled as such. If not either get a DI box, or just forget the amp altogether and plug straight into the mixing console. You'll be pleased to know that DI boxes are actually quite cheap. They don't typically cost as much as, say, an effects pedal.