Dad Alters Donkey Kong for His Daughter - With Pauline as the Hero

[dyre]

That's pretty cool. I wish I had those modding skills.

Also, of course on the Escapist (perhaps the word "Escapist" should be replaced by "internet" here?), a feel-good story about a dad modding a game for his daughter would turn into a feminism argument...

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

Now name every single male protagonist in all retro gaming. I'll wait. See you in about a week.

Challenge accepte-

And yes, that was also hyperbole. Needing a full week to list them, I mean. If you hadn't noticed, I tend to talk that way.

Damn.
Oh I have no objection to this, in fact for the most part I agree with it.

^^;; Well, if you really want to, you can. List them, I mean.

The point I was attempting to get across was that one list is much, much larger than the other. And since you agree with me about that... yeah, actually having both lists (all retro female protagonists vs all retro male protagonists) would actually be pretty neat.

Probably should create a new thread for that if you are actually serious about posting it on the Escapist, though. We've already drifted off topic here, and that would be a whole new kettle of fish. Better to have a new thread.

 

[MagunBFP]

Nope. You will never convince me that something that is directly related to feminism in gaming is as vague and unrelated as the pope going 'yay god' when a random life is saved. Just nope. No sell. Not gonna dignify that travesty of an analogy with an inch of believability.

That's funny because the Pope believes that God is directly related to everything. You see a female and automatically include her in the feminist cause, he see's a person and automatically includes them as one of God's creations. If you can't see the parallel then I give up.

More female characters in gaming is a victory for feminism, regardless of the reasoning behind it. This case might be a very tiny victory, but it's a victory nonetheless, because we're seeing something we strive towards.

You're right, it is a victory for feminism. I might be more inclined to say if anything it was a victory for equality (which is the goal) and not so much for the feminism the movement as they had nothing to do with it, but I can't disagree that this is something for feminism to be happy with.

That is completely separate from the discussion of whether that's a victory for feminism or not. That is a personal critique I am making of the gamer community in general, more precisely of an attitude I often see in cases like this one.

That was why I addressed that point separately. You made it a part of the discussion and if you are going to say that "claiming feminism wasn't a part of something means that everyone is going to think feminism is evil" then expect to be called on it especially when you then go on to contradict yourself.

 

[Olas]

Anyone else think it's weird that he's modding a game for his daughter that's over 30 years old? You think she wouldn't prefer something a little newer?

Besides that it's cute I guess.

 

[Shadu]

Personally, I think I would've been a bit sad if my dad had done this for me. It's sweet, really, but I would've probably thought something to the effect of "But dad...I liked playing as Mario."

But then, I was never into the deep personalization thing.

Thankfully, this dad was not mine and his daughter is not me. I would hate to think he did all that work only for me to be, at best, meh about it.

well his daughter seemingly wanted that and isnt that just what female gamers want? the simple option of the choice.
it also shows that pauline can climb ladders too and who knows what that ape would do with the little plumber?

Hey, if she wanted it, then by all means, go for it. And I am a girl gamer, FYI. I personally would rather watch a dude run around that a chick, but I don't really care if I have a choice one way or the other.

That is just me though. And I have been reliably informed that I am a bit odd.

 

[Frezzato]

Anyone else think it's weird that he's modding a game for his daughter that's over 30 years old? You think she wouldn't prefer something a little newer?

Besides that it's cute I guess.

She's three years old. It's in the video description on YouTube [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeXDNg7scyU].

 

[Mikejames]

Reading the posts on this thread have made me sad.

*reads first post*
D'aww.

*reads proceeding posts*
Eeeh....

 

[Darken12]

That's funny because the Pope believes that God is directly related to everything. You see a female and automatically include her in the feminist cause, he see's a person and automatically includes them as one of God's creations. If you can't see the parallel then I give up.

Then give up, because I find the comparison to be completely ridiculous. If you had said something like "the pope going 'yay god' when an atheist inadvertently does something to further religion" then maaaaaybe you'd have a case (since the thing he's praising is actually directly related to his interests). But as it stands? Nope.

You're right, it is a victory for feminism. I might be more inclined to say if anything it was a victory for equality (which is the goal) and not so much for the feminism the movement as they had nothing to do with it, but I can't disagree that this is something for feminism to be happy with.

It is also a victory for equality, yes. They are not mutually incompatible.

That was why I addressed that point separately. You made it a part of the discussion and if you are going to say that "claiming feminism wasn't a part of something means that everyone is going to think feminism is evil" then expect to be called on it especially when you then go on to contradict yourself.

That is also not something I ever said. What I said was "fervently denying the possibility that positive things like these might be a good thing for feminism perpetuates the idea that feminism is harmful and purely negative." This is simple logic. If you deny every possible instance for feminism to be positive and harmless, then all you're left is feminism as neutral or feminism as negative and harmful. This isn't a controversial statement, it's painfully simple reasoning. If you don't acknowledge the possibility that feminism can bring positive and harmless changes like this one, you are never going to see feminism as anything but negative (or neutral at best).

 

[Olas]

Anyone else think it's weird that he's modding a game for his daughter that's over 30 years old? You think she wouldn't prefer something a little newer?

Besides that it's cute I guess.

She's three years old. It's in the video description on YouTube [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeXDNg7scyU].

I mean the game. Donkey Kong came out in 1981.

Why mod a 32 year old retro game for her to play when they sell thousands of new games every year aimed at little girls that she'd probably enjoy more? It seems to me the Dad was doing this more for himself than for his daughter.

 

[dreadedcandiru99]

A guy named Mike Mika has altered the ROM of the original Donkey Kong arcade game to show Pauline as the hero, instead of "Jump Man", aka Mario.

OMFG REVERSE SEXISM! WHAT ABOUT THE MENZ?!?!?!!!1!

That's actually pretty sweet, though.

 

[Frezzato]

snip

Haha that was great. Nice to have a bit of levity in this thread.

I'm sure you're right, it was probably mostly for him but he works in the game industry. I view it like a parent passing on their classic LPs to their kid. I think most newer games that have female characters in them are probably inappropriate for or beyond the skills of a 3-year old. It was a good choice as DK handles consistently well and it's very simple to play.

 

[NightmareExpress]

That's funny because the Pope believes that God is directly related to everything. You see a female and automatically include her in the feminist cause, he see's a person and automatically includes them as one of God's creations. If you can't see the parallel then I give up.

Then give up, because I find the comparison to be completely ridiculous. If you had said something like "the pope going 'yay god' when an atheist inadvertently does something to further religion" then maaaaaybe you'd have a case (since the thing he's praising is actually directly related to his interests). But as it stands? Nope.

An atheist picks numbers for the lottery.
He knows that they likelihood of him winning is ridiculously slim, but buys the ticket anyway.
He then wins the jackpot, at which he expresses sincere surprise at beating the odds.

Despite the lottery being a chanced based operation, the religious guy over there will say that it was God reaching out to say "believe in me, and your hardships shall be rewarded".

Now, this man in the OP had a daughter that wanted to play as a girl.
He spends the time to make his child's desire come true over the course of a few days.
Then, his daughter was able to play as a female protagonist rescuing the prior male lead character in a role reversal.

Despite the action simply being an act of good will from parent to child (apparently, if an earlier post was to be believed, feminism wasn't at all the reason), the feminist over there will say that it was a victory for feminism.

One of Christianity's goals is to amass more followers and "show them the light".
One of feminism's goals is to rework social constructs and break the mold.
However, in each of the above scenarios, this was not what was intended.

Any additional meaning is the act of Apophenia on your behalf.
In case you don't know the definition of that word, it's to make connections between points that were not there in the first place. The lottery was not linked to God, the edit of Donkey Kong was not linked to Feminism. Can they be? Sure, if you wish it to be so and use them as examples for people working on things to actually showcase faith and feminism.

Until then, the only "victors" here are one rich atheist and a happy little two year old girl.
If you still don't understand, please don't bother replying. This is almost as simple as I can make it for you and I don't want for any more words to be wasted by either side.

 

[Darken12]

Any additional meaning is the act of Apophenia on your behalf.
In case you don't know the definition of that word, it's to make connections between points that were not there in the first place.

I eagerly await the day PA uses the word logoplegia. In case it's contagious.

Can they be? Sure, if you wish it to be so and use them as examples for people working on things to actually showcase faith and feminism.

Good, because that's exactly what I was aiming for.

 

[MagunBFP]

That was why I addressed that point separately. You made it a part of the discussion and if you are going to say that "claiming feminism wasn't a part of something means that everyone is going to think feminism is evil" then expect to be called on it especially when you then go on to contradict yourself.

That is also not something I ever said. What I said was "fervently denying the possibility that positive things like these might be a good thing for feminism perpetuates the idea that feminism is harmful and purely negative." This is simple logic. If you deny every possible instance for feminism to be positive and harmless, then all you're left is feminism as neutral or feminism as negative and harmful. This isn't a controversial statement, it's painfully simple reasoning. If you don't acknowledge the possibility that feminism can bring positive and harmless changes like this one, you are never going to see feminism as anything but negative (or neutral at best).

What you said was...

...By denying feminism association with positive things that harm nobody and make people happy, such as this game mod, we are supporting the idea that feminism only wants to destroy and harm, and that it is somehow incompatible with positive, harmless change.

You said in that same post

Saying "no no guys, this awesome feminist thing has nothing to do with feminism! the person who did this wasn't a feminist! in fact, they never had a feminist thought in their heads! they just did it for X reason, I swear!" perpetuates the notion that feminism is always bad, always the enemy, and incompatible with things we can all sympathise with, like good parenting or love for your children.

So tell me again how you weren't saying "saying that Feminism wasn't involved makes Feminism out to be the enemy".

Saying Feminism wasn't involved in this doesn't make Feminism any more or less positive and non-involvement definitely doesn't make Feminism bad, but having said that we have moved well beyond the topic at hand so if you wish to continue this discussion send me a PM.

 

[McMarbles]

Man does sweet thing for daughter.

How is it that there are people who are actually OFFENDED by this?

 

[aguspal]

Snip

Snip

Think it might be time to take this to private messages, guys? It's not like you could derail this thread any harder at this point.

No, the discussion they are having is pretty damn interesting, better than the thread itself even!


I am personally on Crono´s side so far but I dont really care actually this is just so fun!


It was also a given than this thread was going to be a warzone sooner or later, hell I wont be surprised if even the OP went here to create this while think "Yay flamewar thread ahead!"

I cant blame OP, this is just hilarious.

 

[Schadrach]

its obviously not just a thing among children, how many guys wouldnt play alice: the madness returns cause its got a heroine. female character to play, so it must be a girls game...

Do you seriously know anyone who said or thought that? Seriously? I mean, I know people can be stupid but...

Agreed!

This is exactly the right sort of thing to be doing. There's no reason Jump Man needs to be the hero. Why not have a version where you choose which player - Jump Man or Pauline - to play? I too would pay money for that.

As far as the original, that's actually pretty simple -- machine limitations back then.

I'd have to ask the obvious question though, if they're switching places shouldn't he get the real name while she gets the generic moniker? Shouldn't it be "-Mario-" and "Hop Girl"?

Actually it does have to do with feminism.

It shows how easy it is to make the feminists (like me) happy.

Seriously, this is it. Just make an option to switch the sprites and you have solved all of our problems with that game. It is just that easy.

What, Hop Girl isn't a "Man with Boobs" now? =p

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

As far as the original, that's actually pretty simple -- machine limitations back then.

Well, yeah. I'm talking about re-releases. Personally, I'd love to see this Dad's version ported to an App. I haven't played Donkey Kong since the NES - it'd be fun to replay it with Pauline. ^^

I'd have to ask the obvious question though, if they're switching places shouldn't he get the real name while she gets the generic moniker? Shouldn't it be "-Mario-" and "Hop Girl"?

Eh, I didn't name 'em.

Technically, that isn't Mario. He's some sort of super hero, named Jump Man, who happens to look an awful lot like Mario. Why else is he fighting a giant gorilla?

... actually, if you consider that Jump Man came first, I guess that means that Mario is actually wearing Jump Man cosplay.

Also, "Hop Girl" sounds like a Beer mascot.

 

[LiquidGrape]

I do love how Tenmar enters the thread, expresses fear at the potential debate it could generate, and then proceeds to start the debate all on his own accord.