Daredevil Season 2 (Spoilers!)

[Zontar]

So I finished watching the new season a few hours ago (would have finished the whole thing before midnight last night since the stars aligned for me to be able to marathon it the day of release, but the last episode had technical issues) and I have to say it's pretty good.

While it seemed a little less focused compared to the first season, it managed to have the clash between Matt Murdock and DareDevil be a true clash as his personal life and professional life rarely intersected, but when they did they butted heads in a way that was negative to both.

It worked well at introducing Elekra without feeling like she was forced into the story, and it worked great as a means of introducing the Punisher as something other then the bland "kill all criminals" character he's in in the majority of media he shows up in. Jon Bernthal pulled off a great Punisher, and I really hope that Marvel and Netflix end up using him as the protagonist of his own Netflix series even if they said they aren't interested in it.

Outside of that I also really enjoyed the firm falling apart. It felt natural given the situation they where in of Matt effectively having two full time jobs and it allowed for a natural integration of the wider New York MCU setting by having a few interactions with the lawfirm we where introduced to with Jessica Jones.

That being said where there are roses there are thorns, and I felt the Hand portion of the plot was a bit too sudden in its introduction and likely would have been better as part of Iron Fist (though that's likely to be the case in the long run anyway). The Kingpin's rise in Riker's Island also felt a little too easy, with only a ten minute montage given to how it happened. I also have to wonder how the hell Roxxon is still in business given how often they've been caught doing criminal activity, either in Iron Man 2, Agent Carter, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. or the Marvel Netflix series. I know Marvel is limited in its evil corporations compared to DC, and even more so when one remembers who they have the rights to, and that Roxxon is the most evil of all, but come on Marvel, they can't always been the evil corporation.

And then there's the filler scenes. I don't know if there was a mandate to keep episodes a specific length, but the episodes where all longer this season (season one had them all 45-55 minutes, season 2 had them all 48-62 minutes, with most being at least 55) and many of them had scenes I felt could have been cut out or shortened without adversely effecting them.

Overall though I quite enjoyed it, not as much as season one (though to be fair that could be either environmental, as I watched it with friends instead of alone, or due to the novelty of it like Avengers 1 being more enjoyable then Avengers 2 when it first came out but after the fact 2 was better then 1), but I enjoyed it more then Jessica Jones, and look forward to season three.

I just hope that season 3 is an adaptation of DareDevil: Born Again. Because the plot is perfect for an MCU story, and the scene with the Avengers is incredible, perfect for its brief presents and how it ties into the mature story, and could only be done in season 3 due to the fact that after that those characters are likely to start falling as their actor's contracts expire.

Spoiler: Come on Marvel, get it done, it would be the best thing ever

 

[bartholen_v1legacy]

General and non-spoilery:

- Gets going much faster than S1. I had trouble getting into the series for the first 6-7 episodes, but in S2 it slams the gas pedal right from square one

- Hella addicting too. Every episode ended in a way that forced me to watch the next.

- The Punisher is punishingly punishing who punishers the punishable punishingly. I haven't seen his previous live action incarnations, but I can't imagine fans of the character being unsatisfied or saying his depiction was wrong

- If you thought the hallway scene in S1 was spectacular, wait till you see the staircase fight in S2. This is bordering on The Raid levels of hand to hand combat excellence.

- Nice to see Elektra not being just a pretty face, but interesting and... well, to say more would border on spoilers

- The crime mystery in this season is even more intriguing and compelling

- Holy shit the violence! This might be the most violent TV I've ever watched. Certainly blows Game of Thrones out the water, and any episode involving the Punisher doing his thing is brutal beyond measure

- Plenty of twists and turns to keep the audience on their toes. Not a boring season by any stretch of the imagination.

- More ninjas!!!!!

Spoiler: Going into spoilers, click at your own risk

- It hit me only in the second last episode, but this season felt incomplete. Like it was hours upon hours of setup for what's coming next with comparatively little in the way of answers. Elektra and Daredevil go on seemingly endless night missions, only to find one clue, leading to another night mission, rinse and repeat.

- Fisk making a surprise appearance and seeing him transitioning into the Kingpin was very nice, and he's only gotten more ruthless and imposing in prison.

- For all the twists, turns, double crosses, backstabbings, surprise reveals and framings, they ultimately buckled and almost collapsed under their own weight. The Punisher gets out of prison with Fisk's help, and is then framed for multiple murders, but the ultimate reveal of this plot felt incredibly rushed. For all the setup, we suddenly find out that his former commading officer was somehow behind his family's murder, but he's also a master drug dealer, but he also has a personal grudge against Frank Castle because... he didn't want to get in on his dealings? And why did he murder the DA? To lure out Frank? Why? What did he gain from it? Was he trying to kill Frank? Did he have some other motives? Was it even the officer? We never find out who goes spray and pray after Frank's escape. Not to even mention The Hand. What was their big deal? They were trying to get Black Sky, ie. Elektra, but she was alive all along, but also there's drug trafficking somehow involved, yet they seem to be trying to kill her every chance they get, but want her alive, and for some reason there's a gargantuan hole in the ground that never gets brought up again, and they also have some beef with Stick, who also tries to kill Elektra or keep her safe from them and oh no I've gone cross-eyed.

- The murder shed with all the weapons and the skull body armor. What was that about? Did Frank make that? Was it there just randomly? Did the officer build it? Why was the bullet vest already there? Had Frank been using it previously? If so, why didn't he wear it when he was taking down the gangsters around town? Did it just materialize out of thin air? Was it supposed to be a surprise for Frank or did he know it was there?

- Stick came back, but still no hint about what the cryptic line about "gates" in S1 meant, or who that dude sitting the darkness was.

- Elektra being borderline unhinged made her a much more interesting character. Though it gets chalked up to the Black Sky thing at the end, her relationship with Matt was still entertaining to follow

- The romance between Karen and Matt felt rather perfunctory, and could IMO have been dropped altogether. Still, just a minor sticking point.

- Officer Mahoney being apparently the only cop in Hell's Kitchen to stumble on a massacre or some other shocking situation started to feel downright silly after a certain point. Good thing they didn't pull it many times after that.

In general, I enjoyed this season much more while watching it than Season 1, which felt more like a slow burn. But ultimately I don't know which one I'd say is better. Season 1 is much more contained and complete, and there's many things in S2 that left me conflicted about my ultimate opinion on it.

 

[bartholen_v1legacy]

Two threads on this, so I have merged them.

Thanks!

 

[madwarper]

As someone that was completely underwhelmed by season 1's pace (or lack thereof), I'm completely on board with season 2.
I mean, stuff is actually happening! In every episode, none the less!

The only episode in season 1 that I enjoyed was the one with Stick, so I'm glad to see him and the "War" take a much greater role.

 

[Glongpre]

- For all the twists, turns, double crosses, backstabbings, surprise reveals and framings, they ultimately buckled and almost collapsed under their own weight. The Punisher gets out of prison with Fisk's help, and is then framed for multiple murders, but the ultimate reveal of this plot felt incredibly rushed. For all the setup, we suddenly find out that his former commading officer was somehow behind his family's murder, but he's also a master drug dealer, but he also has a personal grudge against Frank Castle because... he didn't want to get in on his dealings? And why did he murder the DA? To lure out Frank? Why? What did he gain from it? Was he trying to kill Frank? Did he have some other motives? Was it even the officer? We never find out who goes spray and pray after Frank's escape. Not to even mention The Hand. What was their big deal? They were trying to get Black Sky, ie. Elektra, but she was alive all along, but also there's drug trafficking somehow involved, yet they seem to be trying to kill her every chance they get, but want her alive, and for some reason there's a gargantuan hole in the ground that never gets brought up again, and they also have some beef with Stick, who also tries to kill Elektra or keep her safe from them and oh no I've gone cross-eyed.

- The murder shed with all the weapons and the skull body armor. What was that about? Did Frank make that? Was it there just randomly? Did the officer build it? Why was the bullet vest already there? Had Frank been using it previously? If so, why didn't he wear it when he was taking down the gangsters around town? Did it just materialize out of thin air? Was it supposed to be a surprise for Frank or did he know it was there?

First of all, that is a great reference you put in there, and I laughed heartily.

Second, I agree so much with these. Everything dealing with the Blacksmith was so sudden, there was barely any development, and all of a sudden he just shows up. For a good minute I was like, wait is he the Blacksmith?
It went through this thing so fast I don't even know his motivation, and I just finished the series 10 minutes ago. They handled this arc terribly, they should have added another episode to expand on it. I wouldn't have minded
Yeah and apparently the Blacksmith has a very big armory hidden in his shed. It is his shed right?
Punisher in his uniform at the end was cool, very cool.

The Elektra stuff was also confusing. Everyone wants to kill her, but at the same time they don't. It even seemed like Stick had a soft spot for her, but apparently not? She was supposed to be a killing machine but it seemed like every fight she was getting her ass kicked. Maybe it is just me.

I wish they brought the Stone guy back (the big dude Stick talks to briefly in S1), he looked like a beast and I wanted to know who the hell he is.

I think Fisk was still the highlight of this season lol, and he stole it with just one scene. The one where he and Murdock are talking in prison. I didn't expect that, and it was awesome.

Punisher was good, maybe didn't get enough screen time. Extra time with the Blacksmith subplot would have been great to aid this.

I think, like most people, the flaw of this season was having no main villain. But I don't know if it is really a flaw, they had some great character building for Matt and Nelson at least. It just felt like a middle chapter, where a bunch is introduced, but nothing is solved, so it feels a little unfulfilling.
However, they laid a lot of great threads that could turn into some great moments in the coming seasons.

Oh, actually the main flaw was the terrible CGI blood and deaths. Looked like stuff you would see from a B movie on the Space channel, or Showcase. I was actually a little surprised how gory they went though!

Good season, about equal to S1 for me, better than JJ.
Binged like 10 episodes today, can still hear the theme song in my head. Look forward to S3!

 

[bartholen_v1legacy]

Spoiler

Let's face it, through no fault of their own Kingpin manages to upstage everybody else this season even though he was barely a secondary plot point. Arguably, Vincent D'Onofrio's portrayal of Kingpin is easily as good or better than Ledger's portrayal of the Joker.

Though IMO he doesn't quite steal the show as much as you think, I can't disagree that he's a perfect cast. Marvel's casting track record has been pretty much spotless so far, and the choice of D'Onofrio is among the very best.

This doesn't have particularly to do with the second season, but I've come to appreciate the symbolism one can find in the opening credits. It's showing a city either forming out of blood, or drowning in blood. It could be a hint about the state Hell's Kitchen has fallen into, or just how Hell's Kitchen is. Daredevil forming last might indicate that he is what this city has brought into being, or that he is what's drowning the city in blood. So Daredevil is either the product of the blood on the streets, or the blood is a byproduct of him. The credits open with the justice statue. This could mean that Daredevil feels he can only see justice through blood. At first I just thought it was some artsy graphics, but after thinking on it I'm definitely seeing deeper implications there.

 

[Kae]

I haven't finished it yet but what I can say so far is that the Punisher storyline is pretty fucking good and I've been enjoying it a lot, the casting was perfect, the action scenes are good and the mystery is interesting enough, not to mention that the different philosophies of both the Punisher and Daredevil makes for a good and interesting dynamic between the 2 character.

That being said, the whole Hand story is absolute fucking trash, it's boring, uninteresting and annoying, both Elektra and Stick are just fucking boring and uninteresting and the whole bullshit of fighting ninjas almost ruins the Noir aesthetic and tone that both the Punisher and Kingpin storylines did so well, not to mention that it absolutely kills the pacing of the whole show by dividing the focus of the 2 storylines, that being said I will admit that I've always thought the Hand was a bad storyline, even in the comics and I've never liked Elektra or Stick, now that doesn't mean I think they shouldn't have done it at all but I don't think Season 2 was the time to implement it, I think it shouldn't have been the focus until Iron Fist showed up, but anyway yeah the whole hand thing is absolute shit which is a shame because the other half of the show is pretty fucking good.

EDIT:Finally finished it, well probably obvious due to what is written above but I have very mixed feelings about this season, mostly because I just don't like The Hand, it's just shit storyline nor do I like the Elektra arc, not surprising considering that I generally don't like Frank Miller's storylines but it really dragged the series down for me, because what I liked, I really liked, it was fucking good but what I didn't like I absolutely hated, seriously the whole thing with the Hand is just fucking stupid and having him fight Ninjas so early in the story is fucking stupid, ninjas in New York is generally ducking stupid though and the main reason why the Ninja Turtles exist is to say how stupid it is.

Basically I love half of the show and absolutely hate the other half, I don't like Stick, I don't like Elektra and I hate the Hand, I understand they had to show up eventually but they really should have waited until Iron Fist, they fit there perfectly, here it's just awkward and stupid.

 

[WonkyWarmaiden]

Jon Bernthal was fucking AMAZING as Frank Castle and I can't wait to see what more they do with the him in the next season.

I just wish we'd gotten a bit more Daredevil and Punisher interaction. What we got was crazy awesome and ideologically fascinating to watch, especially the scene on the boat, but I personally felt like there should have been maybe just one more scene near the end with the two of them but all we got was that quick rooftop scene.

Other than that, and a few other problems I have with how drawn out some of the Elektra storyline felt, I actually enjoyed most of this season more than the previous one.

Next up is Luke Cage in September and I'm excited. Keep up the good work, Marvel.

 

[Glongpre]

Now that I have thought about it more, and read some reviews and others thoughts, the season really wasn't that well written. Stuff happens out of nowhere, things are left just hanging there.

I think it is a case of too many storylines. Season 2 had:
-The war between The Hand and The Chased
-Elektra/Matt
-Punisher
-Foggy/Murdock/Page
-Kingpin

Whereas Season 1 had:
-DD
-Foggy/Murdock/Page
-Gangs

Season 2 had so much going on. Some elements didn't get enough development.

I think it would have been better if it focused more on Punisher, and the dynamic between him and DD. Save Elektra/The Hand for it's own season.

 

[PapaGreg096]

Now that I have thought about it more, and read some reviews and others thoughts, the season really wasn't that well written. Stuff happens out of nowhere, things are left just hanging there.

I think it is a case of too many storylines. Season 2 had:
-The war between The Hand and The Chased
-Elektra/Matt
-Punisher
-Foggy/Murdock/Page
-Kingpin

Whereas Season 1 had:
-DD
-Foggy/Murdock/Page
-Gangs

Season 2 had so much going on. Some elements didn't get enough development.

I think it would have been better if it focused more on Punisher, and the dynamic between him and DD. Save Elektra/The Hand for
it's own season.

To be fair Season 1 had gangs and Kingpin (because lets face it each gang had their own story arc) also Season 2 Kingpin only had one episode

 

[ThreeName]

It worked well at introducing Elekra without feeling like she was forced into the story, and it worked great as a means of introducing the Punisher as something other then the bland "kill all criminals" character he's in in the majority of media he shows up in. Jon Bernthal pulled off a great Punisher, and I really hope that Marvel and Netflix end up using him as the protagonist of his own Netflix series even if they said they aren't interested in it.

Okay, so I've finished about the first four episodes, and I couldn't disagree more. Elektra's introduction was literally "HAY I'M ON YOUR COUCH GUESS I'M IN THE STORY NOW LOL" because organic storytelling is for assholes, apparently. Also while Bernthal may have been a good Punisher, he was not a good actor (or possible had bad direction), because during his woe-is-me-muh-family speech against the gravestone I literally couldn't understand anything he said. Maybe it's because I'm not American or maybe it's because I don't regularly talk to people who put gravel in their morning smoothie but I actually had to look up his backstory because it was so hard to understand his speech.

Season Two has lost all of the goodwill it gained from a good second episode, and even after only finishing four the bad now outweighs the good. Time to watch Jessica Jones and consider whether I could be bothered finishing Daredevil off later.

 

[Zontar]

Okay, so I've finished about the first four episodes, and I couldn't disagree more. Elektra's introduction was literally "HAY I'M ON YOUR COUCH GUESS I'M IN THE STORY NOW LOL" because organic storytelling is for assholes, apparently.

Don't mix up her appearance with her introduction. While she was dropped on us fairly suddenly at the end of episode 4, episode 5 was her real introduction that showed the backstory she and Matt shared. There was really no way to do it otherwise honestly. With only a season to do everything in you can't have the nuance of a decade of the two going from enemies to lovers to enemies again the comics had.

Also while Bernthal may have been a good Punisher, he was not a good actor (or possible had bad direction), because during his woe-is-me-muh-family speech against the gravestone I literally couldn't understand anything he said. Maybe it's because I'm not American or maybe it's because I don't regularly talk to people who put gravel in their morning smoothie but I actually had to look up his backstory because it was so hard to understand his speech.

Probably your lack of being American if I'm being honest. Here in North America (both the US and Canada) speaking like that is not unusual for a lot of guys. It seems to be a North American English thing since I've never seen a Brit, Aussi, Keewee, S-African or non-native English speaker talk that way.

As a long time fan of the Punisher character (who is really disappointed there's been basically 3 stories that used him well) I felt the casting and portrayal was perfect for what the Punisher is, and am genuinely disappointed the rumours of a Netflix Punisher series where false.

Season Two has lost all of the goodwill it gained from a good second episode, and even after only finishing four the bad now outweighs the good. Time to watch Jessica Jones and consider whether I could be bothered finishing Daredevil off later.

You're entitled to your opinions, but how is Jessica Jones better then DareDevil?

 

[Xeorm]

Okay, so I've finished about the first four episodes, and I couldn't disagree more. Elektra's introduction was literally "HAY I'M ON YOUR COUCH GUESS I'M IN THE STORY NOW LOL" because organic storytelling is for assholes, apparently. Also while Bernthal may have been a good Punisher, he was not a good actor (or possible had bad direction), because during his woe-is-me-muh-family speech against the gravestone I literally couldn't understand anything he said. Maybe it's because I'm not American or maybe it's because I don't regularly talk to people who put gravel in their morning smoothie but I actually had to look up his backstory because it was so hard to understand his speech.

Season Two has lost all of the goodwill it gained from a good second episode, and even after only finishing four the bad now outweighs the good. Time to watch Jessica Jones and consider whether I could be bothered finishing Daredevil off later.

I'll second Zontar's post, and say that they do a very good job of introducing her in the next episode, and throughout the season in total. It does feel like she just drops in out of nowhere, and I think that's sort of intentional. The way her arc interacts with Daredevil's is a great fun to watch, partially because it is so sudden. I'd recommend watching at least the next episode.

Hmm, can always put up subtitles. Sometimes useful if there's funky accents going on. His gravel speech is probably hard to understand if you're not as familiar with it as others, but it does fit his image, and is likely what he was going for. It's kind of a trope by this point, and it doesn't seem like it'd be the right character if he wasn't speaking like he ate gravel regularly.

My own thoughts were that I'd have preferred learning a bit more about the whole "War" thing. I can understand that it feels like a middle chapter and it'll likely be explained more later, but it still felt a bit odd at times. Too much secrecy.

Still don't understand the ending with the Blacksmith. Like...what was he talking about in the scene with Page? It was confusing.

But, good season overall. Can't wait to see more.

 

[ThreeName]

Don't mix up her appearance with her introduction. While she was dropped on us fairly suddenly at the end of episode 4, episode 5 was her real introduction that showed the backstory she and Matt shared. There was really no way to do it otherwise honestly. With only a season to do everything in you can't have the nuance of a decade of the two going from enemies to lovers to enemies again the comics had.

I'll second Zontar's post, and say that they do a very good job of introducing her in the next episode, and throughout the season in total. It does feel like she just drops in out of nowhere, and I think that's sort of intentional. The way her arc interacts with Daredevil's is a great fun to watch, partially because it is so sudden. I'd recommend watching at least the next episode.

That's all fair enough, I guess it just exasperates me because I find that level of cheesy cliffhanger a frustrating writing mechanic. Good to know the character goes places, and I've got to assume Punisher comes back because otherwise it's going to get very lonely very quickly.

Probably your lack of being American if I'm being honest. Here in North America (both the US and Canada) speaking like that is not unusual for a lot of guys. It seems to be a North American English thing since I've never seen a Brit, Aussi, Keewee, S-African or non-native English speaker talk that way.

As a long time fan of the Punisher character (who is really disappointed there's been basically 3 stories that used him well) I felt the casting and portrayal was perfect for what the Punisher is, and am genuinely disappointed the rumours of a Netflix Punisher series where false.

It's a good bet. What a shame. I've gotta say I didn't dislike his as much as I expected; having not been into comics when I was an angsty teenager, I can't say Punisher has ever held appeal for me. He was better than I expected, but I really don't know how he'd carry his own series.

You're entitled to your opinions, but how is Jessica Jones better then DareDevil?

No idea, I haven't seen it yet. My housemate said it was much more compelling, and I'll find out in a bit when I get around to watching it. She sold it to me as "modern film-noir" but I recently found out there's superpowers in it so that's smacked my expectations back down to a level where I might be able to handle it

 

[Souplex]

I felt it was definitely overall weaker than the first season.
The first 4 episodes were amazing, but once Punisher gets caught, Elektra comes into play, and the Hand become prominent it all falls apart.
The lady who plays Elektra is fine, but I just kept yelling at Matt to not stick it in the crazy. The Matt we saw up to this point would better prioritize his time, and could do more lawyering.
Matt's willingness to work with a team of murderers who continue being lethal while they work with him in the finale seems really out of place, although the ethics of using lethal force on people who come back from the dead is an interesting thought.

 

[Something Amyss]

Hate Bernthal as Punisher. First time I've considered skipping a Marvel series outright. Kind of want to see him as Remo Williams, though.

Elektra's pretty cool.

Overall season's pretty good, but it felt like they kind of Iron Man 2'd it by throwing in so many elements. I'm surprised we didn't get cameos from Nick Fury, Iron Fist, and either Ant-Man or Falcon (whichever was more B-List).

 

[Souplex]

I'm surprised we didn't get cameos from Nick Fury, Iron Fist, and either Ant-Man or Falcon (whichever was more B-List).

I think it's pretty clear that Lesbian Lawyer Lady from Jessica Jones (I can't remember her name, so henceforth she's L.L.L.) is the Netflix-verse's Nick Fury. Or maybe that's Night Nurse.
...The point is that one of them is Nick Fury, and one of them is Coulson.

 

[Something Amyss]

I think it's pretty clear that Lesbian Lawyer Lady from Jessica Jones (I can't remember her name, so henceforth she's L.L.L.) is the Netflix-verse's Nick Fury. Or maybe that's Night Nurse.
...The point is that one of them is Nick Fury, and one of them is Coulson.

Yeah, but both Hogarth and Claire have a pretty good reason to be there. Well, Hogarth was like, one scene.

 

[Diablo2000]

I'm surprised we didn't get cameos from Nick Fury, Iron Fist, and either Ant-Man or Falcon (whichever was more B-List).

I think it's pretty clear that Lesbian Lawyer Lady from Jessica Jones (I can't remember her name, so henceforth she's L.L.L.) is the Netflix-verse's Nick Fury. Or maybe that's Night Nurse.
...The point is that one of them is Nick Fury, and one of them is Coulson.

I am guessing that Hogarth is Nick Fury and Claire is Coulson. We as audience and the characters would have no reason to care if somehow Hogarth dies (Maybe with the exception of Jessica Jones), but if Claire dies then everyone it's gonna cause impact on the audience and piss off at least three of four Defenders (Iron Fist being the "?" since we don't know Rosario Dawnson role's in it)