Daredevil Season 2 (Spoilers!)

[The Madman]

Finished the season and it was pretty good. I liked the Punisher, he was great, but found the plot really started to unravel near the end as well. It just felt like the show was trying to balance too many things at once and inevitably a few of them got left behind: For example the whole 'Blacksmith' thing which was just nonsensical. Why is this guy doing what he does? Why's he got a vendetta against Frank? Did he kill the DA and if so why? How's he so good at what he does that he's pushing around everyone else? Why are his drugs so much better than the competitions? What's with the hut armory? Was that the 'Blacksmiths' hideout and if so why was it there with all that stuff? Coincidence that Frank stumbles across it?

I can try to figure some of this stuff out but ultimately it would be just guesswork since the show never really makes any of that clear, instead rushing past these details in its hurry to try and complete everything else it's got going on.

Then there are other things as well, which I imagine will be answered later on: What's with the super deep hole? Why did those patients want to give all their blood and die? What's the deal with the double autopsy ninja? Who donated to the hospital to shush everything? What's with the train full of dirt? Was it just to remove the dirt from the hole in secret, and if so why? If it was a trap for Daredevil how did they know to expect him?

Etc, Etc. So yeah, lot's of plot stuff. I wish the show had been a bit more focused with a singular plot thread instead of multiple different ones, which is what it felt like. A single stand-out villain would have been great too since that's something this season lacked compared to previous Netflix Marvel shows, but still overall very entertaining.

I think of the Netflix Marvel shows Jessica Jones is still my favourite, but this was still fantastic and I'll eagerly away the inevitable season 3 and Defenders crossovers.

 

[Zontar]

Why is this guy doing what he does? Why's he got a vendetta against Frank? Did he kill the DA and if so why? How's he so good at what he does that he's pushing around everyone else? Why are his drugs so much better than the competitions? What's with the hut armory? Was that the 'Blacksmiths' hideout and if so why was it there with all that stuff? Coincidence that Frank stumbles across it?

Some of these have "blink and you'll miss them" answers to them in the dialogue.

The guy's doing what he is due to simple greed and feeling screwed over for what he got out of the war.

His vendetta against Frank stems from despising the man personally for what he did. That story he hold in the court room wasn't one he's happy about.

His men killed the DA, likely to make the city get in a panic about Frank while also tying up loose ends in the investigation against him.

He's good at pushing around others because his drug empire has its backbone be Marines working in a crime world where most can barely hold a gun straight. A squad of Marines being part of a gang war will be a very bloody mess for the competition.

The drugs where better because the purity was higher. When it comes to competition to sell a certain drug purity is the most important factor, and transportation always makes it less so (both from the environment degrading it over time and the different hands it passes through typically putting in filler).

That's all I could gather watching the season though, the rest I have no idea.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

Hate Bernthal as Punisher. First time I've considered skipping a Marvel series outright. Kind of want to see him as Remo Williams, though.

Elektra's pretty cool.

Overall season's pretty good, but it felt like they kind of Iron Man 2'd it by throwing in so many elements. I'm surprised we didn't get cameos from Nick Fury, Iron Fist, and either Ant-Man or Falcon (whichever was more B-List).

I'd say that Falcon is B-List. He only gets cameos and second string spots, like War Machine. Ant-Man at least got his own flick wheras Falcon was the Ant-Man cameo. I'd almost say Hawkeye could get a cameo role as well considering he's just about as b-list as they come (unfairly due to him being way more awesome than people give him credit for). Widow could also fall under that category as she's never going to get her own movie and always end up being a cameo or secondary character.
But out of all of them Falcon is probably the one I'd expect most to get a cameo role. Poor Falcon, dude deserves better.

 

[Zontar]

Hate Bernthal as Punisher. First time I've considered skipping a Marvel series outright. Kind of want to see him as Remo Williams, though.

Elektra's pretty cool.

Overall season's pretty good, but it felt like they kind of Iron Man 2'd it by throwing in so many elements. I'm surprised we didn't get cameos from Nick Fury, Iron Fist, and either Ant-Man or Falcon (whichever was more B-List).

I'd say that Falcon is B-List. He only gets cameos and second string spots, like War Machine. Ant-Man at least got his own flick wheras Falcon was the Ant-Man cameo. I'd almost say Hawkeye could get a cameo role as well considering he's just about as b-list as they come (unfairly due to him being way more awesome than people give him credit for). Widow could also fall under that category as she's never going to get her own movie and always end up being a cameo or secondary character.
But out of all of them Falcon is probably the one I'd expect most to get a cameo role. Poor Falcon, dude deserves better.

I don't know, if they do Born Again (and dear god do I hope they do) they'd only need about a minute of Hemmsworth and Evans for the Avengers cameo (and Nick Fury's cameos in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. shows they can afford it), plus if they use the right stylistic camera angels they wouldn't even need to go that far either.

God damn do I want Born Again to be made and for that cameo to happen. Ties the universe together really well without feeling out of place or messing with the tone of DareDevil.

 

[Something Amyss]

Poor Falcon, dude deserves better.

Yeah, it's not like he's Hawkeye or something. >.>

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

I don't know, if they do Born Again (and dear god do I hope they do) they'd only need about a minute of Hemmsworth and Evans for the Avengers cameo (and Nick Fury's cameos in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. shows they can afford it), plus if they use the right stylistic camera angels they wouldn't even need to go that far either.

God damn do I want Born Again to be made and for that cameo to happen. Ties the universe together really well without feeling out of place or messing with the tone of DareDevil.

I'd definitely go for an on screen version of Born Again. Wonderful story.

 

[Fappy]

As others have mentioned, the Punisher was awesome but the plot got way too congested. Very little build up ultimately paid off as a result, which is unfortunate. At least the fight choreography was still cool when the plot became incoherent lol.

Marvel needs to stop pushing sequels and spin-offs and focus on telling good stories. Too many shows and movies are suffering for it *cough* Age of Ultron *cough*.

 

[Something Amyss]

Finished the season and it was pretty good. I liked the Punisher, he was great, but found the plot really started to unravel near the end as well. It just felt like the show was trying to balance too many things at once and inevitably a few of them got left behind: For example the whole 'Blacksmith' thing which was just nonsensical. Why is this guy doing what he does? Why's he got a vendetta against Frank? Did he kill the DA and if so why? How's he so good at what he does that he's pushing around everyone else? Why are his drugs so much better than the competitions? What's with the hut armory? Was that the 'Blacksmiths' hideout and if so why was it there with all that stuff? Coincidence that Frank stumbles across it?

Frank stumbled upon the weapons cache at the house of his former CO, who was the Blacksmith. He makes a speech about the way they were treated when they came home, which may not be the best explanation for getting into drugs, but it's addressed. He also says Frank wouldn't follow orders or some such, but the vendetta is more ass-covering. Frank is convenient in that his vengeance has already been covered up by an incompetent DA. The hit on the Da was part of a coverup to get at the people who knew about the sting, and Frank makies an awesome scapegoat.


A lot of the rest can be explained with military training and connections, and so I'm not sure it needed to be spelled out.

Then there are other things as well, which I imagine will be answered later on: What's with the super deep hole? Why did those patients want to give all their blood and die? What's the deal with the double autopsy ninja? Who donated to the hospital to shush everything? What's with the train full of dirt? Was it just to remove the dirt from the hole in secret, and if so why? If it was a trap for Daredevil how did they know to expect him?

Some of these can be addressed. The Double-Autopsy Ninja is likely part of The Hand having beaten death. Not only mentioned, but demonstrated in the BBEG for the season. Delving into speculation, but Elektra's probably going to come back as a villain as this borrows story beats from the comics, where they mind controlled many people in the past. Including Daredevil. This will likely be brought up, and so will likely serve as an explanation for why the patients were "willing" to be bled dry. Hole hole really does explain the dirt, and I'm assuming the hole itself will be coming up next season.

Most of these are explained. Whether they're explained well is another question. The big speculation here is mind control, and that's a pretty mild plot point.

Side note: with Hogarth showing up, it'd be kind of cool if it turned out the mind control the Hand uses stems from recovered research based on Kilgrave or some similar connection. This is speculation (or fantasy) and not answering a question in itself, just saying.

Etc, Etc. So yeah, lot's of plot stuff. I wish the show had been a bit more focused with a singular plot thread instead of multiple different ones, which is what it felt like. A single stand-out villain would have been great too since that's something this season lacked compared to previous Netflix Marvel shows, but still overall very entertaining.

Even with most of those questions explained, it felt too unfocused. They're trying to set up Punisher for his own series, plus establish Kingpin as a player again, deal with the social repercussions of Matt's actions, establish Elektra, further establish The Hand, and deal with a conspiracy theory. I think this is all hard to cram into 13 episodes anyway.

But yeah, still a good season. And while I prefer Jessica Jones, Daredevil doesn't give me panic attacks watching it, so I'd rather watch it.

 

[omega 616]

As somebody not into comics, all of this is kind of new to me ... what I do know is from the movies, so probably a lot of wrong information.

I'm enjoying the series but this second season seems to have a lot of stuff I see in other programmes, 2 love interests so you get the mystery of who is going to choose and one girl gets pissed at him when she finds out or seems distracted blah blah blah it happens in like every tv show. The law firm breaking a part is just another rote plot about "will he choose to leave the hero life behind or leave normal life behind" and we all know he will choose to be a hero, again, it's used in a lot of hero things. As is trying to keep his identity hidden from people close to him.

I think this second series lacked focus, I thought it was going to be batman vs superman daredevil vs punisher and the conflict of philosophy to kill or not to kill. Punisher tries not to kill (but that rote plot went to elektra who obviously failed, which we all saw coming and Matt obviously never went through with his threat to leave her) but kills again, then daredevil tries to kill but wont and they each have an appreciation for each others methods but neither likes it, so they resolve that daredevil will always try to stop punisher but punisher always kills and always manages to slip away.

Instead you had daredevil trying to keep the firm together, learning of the hand, fighting the punisher, arguing with Stick some more, having a love affair with his secretary, finding elektra and having an emotional roller coaster with her and him confronting Fisk (probably missed some stuff out).

You have Foggy trying to figure out to win a case for a guy who constantly sabotages his own case and just gets frustrated at Matt. His secretary becomes a journalist and chases the punishes back story. Fisk's story about becoming kingpin in rikers. Franks little elevation of actual punisher, instead of it just being a name the media gave him. The Yakuza coming back into the picture with their seemingly immortal super ninja and a massive black hole AND a plot about collecting blood to apparently pump into elektra. Some cop who daredevil has saw fit to be the guy to be his man on the inside. Lastly the punisher mopped up all the people who did him wrong bar one, the blacksmith!

That is a fuck load of plots to cram into 13(?) episodes! Granted a daredevil vs punisher only series might get played out over that length of time but as somebody who doesn't have a clue what the fuck is going on, throwing all these plots at me is a little over whelming!

At least arrow, flash and Jessica Jones set up a bad guy or plot and then just have one or two others spiralling around it ... like in Arrow they went after deathstroke and had family problem spinning around it and maybe one or two other things, that's easy to keep up with but I feel like I just went to university straight after high school and the lecturer just dropped a tome in front of me and left me to it ... it's just a lot of info to absorb!

 

[Crazy Zaul]

Only half way through it so far but its kinda disappointing compared to the first season. I know season 1 was more about Fisk than Daredevil and my complaint isn't that season 2 is more about Punisher than Daredevil cos Punisher is cool, but its more about Murdock and Nelson than Daredevil. Lawyer shit. There were a few good episodes then when Punisher got beaten and Electra turned up the whole thing went to shit. It's like they are admitting that Daredevil isn't actually a particularly interesting hero and have him do lawyer stuff, spy stuff, cop stuff, relationship stuff instead.

I hope they just move straight on into the Defenders instead of having a Daredevil season 3, since this season is just highlighting even more that Fisk was the best part of season 1 and Daredevil is probably better as part of a team than on his own.

 

[IOwnTheSpire]

I really hope we get Bullseye next season.

I was left with two unanswered questions, but I hope they intend to explore these things further:

Spoiler

1. Why were the Hand digging a giant hole?
2. What happened to make those kids go all Village of the Damned/Children of the Corn?

 

[Diablo2000]

Only half way through it so far but its kinda disappointing compared to the first season. I know season 1 was more about Fisk than Daredevil and my complaint isn't that season 2 is more about Punisher than Daredevil cos Punisher is cool, but its more about Murdock and Nelson than Daredevil. Lawyer shit. There were a few good episodes then when Punisher got beaten and Electra turned up the whole thing went to shit. It's like they are admitting that Daredevil isn't actually a particularly interesting hero and have him do lawyer stuff, spy stuff, cop stuff, relationship stuff instead.

I hope they just move straight on into the Defenders instead of having a Daredevil season 3, since this season is just highlighting even more that Fisk was the best part of season 1 and Daredevil is probably better as part of a team than on his own.

I think it's pretty safe to bet in another season coming after Defenders, they just spend half of the season setting up Born Again, so to stop now would be a waste of potencial and possibly time.

 

[WolfThomas]

I wonder if when Season 3 of Daredevil, the Defenders asnd possibly the Punisher (they said they won't spin it off but really?) have come and gone if this season will fit better. I liked it a lot. The Punisher. Daredevil in a proper costume and called "Daredevil". But I agree with a lot of people about janky convulsed leading no where plotlines

 

[RedDeadFred]

I liked the overarching story of season 1 better. Fisk was a much more interesting and well realized villain than The Hand. Having said that, the Punisher and Elektra were both very good. Elektra's storyline got worse in my opinion once we saw the bigger picture with her.

Overall, I'd say I liked season 1 more. Fisk is probably the best villain the MCU has ever put on screen and while he was there for parts of the season (and those were some of the best moments), it seemed like this season lacked the focus that he provided for season 1. Still good though.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Finally got around to watching this. Started quite weak (after two episodes I was actually cringing at some moments) but gained momentum in the 2nd half, even as the plot was starting to buckle under the weight of all its contrivances and bizarre reverses.

THE GOOD

Bernthal's Punisher and Elodie Yung were both excellent in their respective roles, and the characterization of both Punisher and Elektra was interesting. Cox continues to do good work as Daredevil. The fight choreography remains excellent (particularly the prison scene), although it felt a bit too polished and weightless at times this season. There was more immediacy and emotion to the show when Matt was fighting in plain clothes. He felt more vulnerable, the weight of his injuries showed more in his movements. Deborah Ann Woll did decent work with her frequently absurd sub-plot. Rosario Dawson and Vincent D'Onofrio did good work again with their returning characters and were commanding in their scenes.

THE BAD

The actors were frequently swimming upstream against absolutely terrible writing, including a plot riddled with innumerable holes. The entire Hand subplot was baffling nonsense, the ninjas were corny, and many of the strange hoops they put the Punisher and Elektra through diminished fascinating characters at times. Elden Henson continues to be an anchor on the show...his character is stuck in a naggy go-nowhere arc and he weighs down every episode he's in. Michelle Hurd was a lumbering, scenery-chewing catastrophe as Reyes, rendering every scene with her in it virtually unwatchable.

MCU NETFLIX SO FAR:

1 - GOOD JESSICA JONES - The best Jessica Jones episodes are still by far the best of the Marvel offerings on Netflix. The Purple Man was the most thematically challenging villain, and the conflict between them was riveting and unsettling.

2 - GOOD DAREDEVIL SEASON ONE - Had a limp ending, but the first handful of episodes were sublime.

3 - GOOD DAREDEVIL SEASON TWO - Would be #2 for the performances of Yung and Bernthal alone, but it struggles due to abysmal writing.

4 - BAD DAREDEVIL SEASON TWO - And by the same token, the good performances elevate even its weakest material.

5 - BAD DAREDEVIL SEASON ONE - The show spun its wheels terribly in season one at times. As bad as season two can get, and as overstuffed as it can feel, there was not 13 episodes worth of material in season one and it shows.

6 - BAD JESSICA JONES - Speaking of insufficient material for a 13 episode season, when JJ strays from the primary arc of Jessica and the Purple Man it falls incredibly flat. They're going to be in tough finding an impetus for the planned season 2, because Ritter's hard-drinking PTSD routine worked beautifully in the context of her Purple Man arc, but will be reduced to pulpy noir nonsense if they try and stretch it out for an entire series without anything else to inform it.