Dark Knight Rises Cinematographer Bashes The Avengers

[piclemaniscool]

It's funny because I had the exact opposite reaction. The camera movements fit in with with the high-octane adrenaline shot mood I was looking for in a movie starring a bunch of the worlds most well known superheroes. TDKR on the other hand actually brooke my immersion constantly with the unnecessarily close close-up shots of the characters. I really didn't need to see every blemish on Christian Bale's face.

 

[themyrmidon]

Don't be such a hater, Wally. It's not The Avengers fault that a 10-foot-tall green muscle-man swinging a Norse god around like a bag of grass clippings looks more believable than a man with a pointy-eared bucket on his head playing happy-slaps with WWE's Kane.

I'm just saying the next time you guys film a fight scene, try not to use angles where Batman is clearly punching the air in front of his opponent. Might help.

You, sir, win this thread.
No matter the general opinions on the two movies neither had the best use of cameras in the world. In other words...

 

[SnakeoilSage]

You, sir, win this thread.
No matter the general opinions on the two movies neither had the best use of cameras in the world. In other words...

It's true, I won't deny it. But I noticed it more in TDKR. Maybe it wasn't doing enough to draw my interest away from such things.

 

[Beautiful End]

Small question, did anyone here feel they couldn't bring themselves to enjoy The Avengers because of poor camera angles?

Exactly. In my case, as just the viewer, I couldn't care less about said "crappy" camera angles. In fact, I doubt anyone ever would stop watching a movie because of that (Unless you're a cinematographer?). I will stop watching a movie if the plot sucks or if the acting sucks or it's just plain boring, but not because I think the scenes could have been shot better.

The Avengers was just an action flick. We didn't need any backstory or major character development. We already have The Incredible Hulk, Iron Man 1 and 2, Captain America and Thor for that. TDKR was different in the sense that it had to carry on with the previous two movie's plots, introduce new characters, relationships and plot AND conclude th--

You know what? Both were good. No need to get all defensive about it, Mr. Cinematographer.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Given the guys awards and history, I'm going to have to agree with him.

 

[sammysoso]

He's kind of right.

Cinematography definitely wasn't The Avengers strong point, disappointed me really, Serenity looked so nice.

Of course, that doesn't really matter given what Avengers was trying to do.

EDIT: Kind of funny seeing all the "jealousy" response from people. This dude knows what he's talking about, one of the best cinematographers working today.

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

amazing how many people immediately jump on the guy and act like a bunch of insecure teenagers. Usually to the effect of "well, uh, uh, AVENGERS MADE MORE MONEY!" Cute, you immediately go for the most meaningless and desperate argument around. Can't wait for TDKR on DVD in December.

 

[Fox334]

Rough translation: "We didn't like how The Avengers beat us at the box office, but it obviously wasn't OUR faults, such as dragging on far longer than it needed to, or having the villain be as uninspiring as possible, or our plot twist being pointless for comic fans and devoid of originality for non comic fans."

Plus, after the confusing at best angles Inception had, I don't think he has room to talk.

Well, he did win best cinematography for Inception. So clearly his own peers where impressed.

 

[lordmardok]

Like any other geek/specialist Pfister feels that his own way is the best and that deviating from that path is tantamount to a cardinal sin. You see it in almost everything, the grammar nazi hates a genuinely good book because of some awkward errors, the cinematographer hates the movie for some bad angles,etc... it's just a snob waving his nerd-willy around for everyone to see. Yes it's unprofessional, it's also very childish. I'll grant that he's an great cinematographer, the camera angles in all of Christopher Nolan's movies have been impeccable. That is not what makes a great movie though, it is simply a part of a whole. Not umimportant but far from the deciding factor.

As a side note I'd love to hear his thoughts on the camera angles for the Transformers movies. That would be bloody hilarious.

 

[Astoria]

Sounds like someone's a bit of a snob. Not all movies are about storytelling, some are just about entertainment. I do think TDKR was better objectivly than The Avengers but it wasn't as...enjoyable? And what about movies like Blade Runner that are more about making you think? Not all movies are about the story, if they were we'd all just read books.

 

[Dire Sloth]

He sees them rollin'. He hatin'.

 

[themyrmidon]

You, sir, win this thread.
No matter the general opinions on the two movies neither had the best use of cameras in the world. In other words...

It's true, I won't deny it. But I noticed it more in TDKR. Maybe it wasn't doing enough to draw my interest away from such things.

Sorry if I wasn't clear, that pic was meant for Pfister, I was posting it in agreement with you. I prefer Avengers to TDKR in almost all aspects, cinematography is one area neither can stand as a shining example.

 

[Vigormortis]

Well at least he is bring up valid criticisms even if his choice of words is piss poor. As I've said numerous times before you can criticize without being an asshole.

But around here, any criticism instantly makes you an asshole. No matter how non-confrontational or how level-headed you are about it, if you levy any criticism on anything popular (Avengers, Mass Effect, Skyrim, etc) you become worthy of scorn.

'Course, on the flip side, you have those people that think you have to be an asshole when you're criticizing something. Like it's their personal mission to put something, and it's fan-base, down.

Sigh...anyway, OT:

Pfister has been nominated many times for his cinematography. He's worked on quite a few award-winning and popular films. The guy knows his craft. So maybe, just maybe, he knows what he's talking about when he levies criticism on another film. (or even his own)

I'm also inclined to agree with him, to a degree. I loved The Avengers. It was a fantastically fun film.

Even so, I did have gripes with aspects of it. One of them being rather odd and, at times, awkward action shots and camera angles.

Does that mean I hate the movie? Hell no. In fact, part of why I notice some of it's failings is because I love the film so much.

Why is that so hard to accept for some people?

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Well at least he is bring up valid criticisms even if his choice of words is piss poor. As I've said numerous times before you can criticize without being an asshole.

But around here, any criticism instantly makes you an asshole. No matter how non-confrontational or how level-headed you are about it, if you levy any criticism on anything popular (Avengers, Mass Effect, Skyrim, etc) you become worthy of scorn.

'Course, on the flip side, you have those people that think you have to be an asshole when you're criticizing something. Like it's their personal mission to put something, and it's fan-base, down.

Yes and this cinematographer guy clearly falls into the latter category.

Also the former wouldn't be so much of a problem if it weren't for the latter.

 

[Risingblade]

camera angle...like the camera angle in the first batman film during the fight scenes...those were so awful, worst I've ever seen.

 

[ThunderCavalier]

The Avengers was great, and The Dark Knight Rises was great. Go see them both or get the Bluray/DVD.
There, problem solved. Nothing to see here people! Show's over!

I agree. It's like people trying to argue between cake and pie about which is better. They're both great, so you should just try and get both.

 

[lacktheknack]

I have a friend who's really, really good at programming.

Every time he opens open-source code, he weeps. Does the casual observer care about that code? Nope. Apparently, most PROGRAMMERS don't care about that code (hence the weeping). But it upsets him because he knows better, less flashy ways of doing the various tasks.

It's the same here. Pfister pays WAAAAAAAAAAY too much attention to cinematography in different movies because it's what he does best. Just like how my friend begs me to not use such programming train-wrecks such as Audacity or OpenOffice. I use them anyways, just as average people watch Avengers anyways with no issues, because we don't care about the finest details of that one aspect.

However, I slap my friend for being silly about this kind of thing.

Ergo, Pfister still deserves to be slapped.

 

[Mr.Mustacho]

Small question, did anyone here feel they couldn't bring themselves to enjoy The Avengers because of poor camera angles?

that kind of stuff would only really bother someone who's constantly working on it himself
and i agree though it didn't bother me the cinematography wasn't great

but maybe I'm biased because by the time i got to see it the movie was way over hyped and i was kinda disappointed

 

[crazyrabbits]

But around here, any criticism instantly makes you an asshole. No matter how non-confrontational or how level-headed you are about it, if you levy any criticism on anything popular (Avengers, Mass Effect, Skyrim, etc) you become worthy of scorn.

Maybe it's because I'm (relatively) new here, but I haven't seen that at all. In fact, in most of the cases you mentioned, it's been the opposite - people pile on Skyrim for having little plot, and ME3 for...being ME3, both with lots of criticism and scorn. I'm a cynic, and I'll give credit where credit is due, or criticize when I see an opportunity.

Pfister has no room to talk - when I think about it, just about all his films have had weird camera angles and shots. Off the top of my head:

Batman Begins: the cinematography during the Tumbler chase (cops who fail to see a car with its lights turned off driving past them in the background, which the audience can see; shot placement is off-kilter, some of the action is incredibly hard to make out and obscured by quick cuts/smoke).

The Dark Knight: The "ohgodimblowingupbutmyhairisflyinginthewind" Rachel Dawes death shot, the odd shot where Harvey's face is burning with weird camera angles/obscuring.

Inception: showing his love for the "hospital room vault" that Fischer's father is in during the shakycam panning shots.

I haven't seen TDKR, but I'm willing to bet his comments stem from a sense of jealousy. TDK was the reigning king of the ring until the Avengers dethroned it, and that was made from a comparatively-inexperienced director.