Dark Souls 2 - lacking atmosphere?

[endtherapture]

Dark Souls 2 just isn't the same experience as the first one in my opinion. It feels way more gamey and they definitely failed to reproduce the amazing atmosphere of the first one, in fact the game just felt cheap and badly designed in a lot of ways.

The atmosphere was bad. I plain old just didn't like it. There wasn't really anything creepy or magical or mysterious about Drangleic compared to Lordran. It didn't have the sense of history or a world gone mad by the undead curse. The NPCs weren't as creepy and didn't feel like they were on the verge of going mad.

A world that didn't make sense. In Lordran, despite the stylised fantasy environments and places like "lava city" and "poison town" it all made sense because it was built on levels. Firelink was sort of a starting point for the game - you go up and get your town areas like the Undead Burg and Chapel, which connected to areas like the forest and Sen's. Another level going up you get Anor Londo and the Duke's Archives. Going down you get at first the Depths, New Londo and the Catacobmbs. Below that you get Blightown and Quelaag's domain. Further bellow you get the Demon Ruins and Lost Izalith. You can even see the Demon Ruins from the Tomb of the Giants! It is brilliant world design in how there's different layers to the world and they all connect to each other.

Meanwhile in Drangleic it's all just extremely over the place. Majula is at the start of the game, you go down from there and you either get a forest followed by a castle, or a huge sunken city? There's no sense of location in the game and it's just compounded by everything being illogical, you're constantly going up or down but there's no logic to it at all and the areas don't feel interconnected or even in the same kingdoms. Castle Drangleic doesn't feel like it should be in the same place as either Heide's Tower or the Dragon Keep or the bloody Iron Keep (which is just a level from Mario).

Inconsistent enemies is another one. In Dark Souls the enemies were placed well and designed logically. Crystal enemies were present in Seath's areas, there were varieties of different skeletons in Nito's areas, the areas near Lost Izalith were overrun by demons (including Blightown) and everything felt logical. In DS2 there were turtle warriors spread everywhere and there was enemies with lightning swords in the fire areas for some reason. Enemies were placed randomly and didn't have the personality of the first game.

Bad texturing is the final one. So many of the levels in 2 were just bland, badly textured rooms with no features or anything in it. Meanwhile Dark Souls felt so much more "dark" and even starting areas like the Undead Asylum were incredibly well textured with lighting effects on individual bricks and it gave the game world a much more decaying feel.

What do you guys think about this?

 

[Treeberry]

I'm not that far into Dark Souls 2 so bear with me here but I feel like there is a more hopeful atmosphere. Like maybe things can get better. Coming straight from DS1 that's a nice feeling and a breath of fresh air. Given that this is the Souls universe, I'm probably wrong though.

Also I could be projecting due to my current disdain for absurdly dreary, dark fiction in which hope is a flicker of a myth. -sigh- (I'm not saying the Souls games are like that - I don't think they are, they mostly hit the right spot for me - I've just read and played too many things which are 'dark' to the point of being boring and stupid.)

And to be honest, I think Dark Souls 2 is just as well made as Dark Souls 1. Make of that what you will.

 

[josemlopes]

Dark Souls 2 shit the bed in that area. In Dark Souls 1, even though the actual 3D space overlapped a lot (for example, when you look at Blightown from the Firelink Shrine it isnt the actual location that it will be through the path you take, its kind of an ilusion for the player to think he traveled more), in Dark Souls 2 they didnt even tried to hide the fact that you never walked the distance the place seems to be from you, they simply state that "time and space are distorted" and roll with it.

With that then its the whole feeling that its "level 1-2", "level 1-3" with the bosses and bonfires. In the end its a mix of what I presume Demons Souls was with Dark Souls (never played Demons Souls) but the whole "its a small area with a lot of verticality" was one of the reasons I liked the game so much. I still remember looking at this map and thinking "its that it?", it kind of is since the rest is mostly underneath with the exception of Anor Londo.

 

[stroopwafel]

I really enjoyed both so I think they're more or less on an equal level for me. I only think it's a shame DkS2 wasn't a new-gen release with graphics and lighting effects we saw in that initial presentation. Other than that DkS2 is just more of the same which isn't a bad thing when the game is this much fun. Demon's Souls was a completely new experience to me so by the time Dark Souls came out it didn't blow me away like the previous game did. I had the same with DkS2; it didn't disappoint but neither did it recapture the magic of playing Demon's for the first time. It's just...more Dark Souls. Which again, isn't a bad thing.

In terms of level-design and story I think they're also more or less equal. I agree the interconnectivity of DkS1 was awesome but judging the levels separately DkS2's levels were just as good. Demon Ruins, Lost Izalith and Tomb of the Giants I think were all kind of sub-par compared to the rest of Dks1's levels; so it's definitely not like this game's area design was perfect. It had its highs and lows just like DkS2.

For gameplay I think I prefer the slightly faster pace of DkS2, even if enemy tracking and sometimes infinite stamina was bullshit in this game. Armor detail and such I think was slightly better in DkS1, though its obvious the designers made consessions in favor of keeping a steady framerate. DkS1 definitely had more standout bosses though, even if Demon of Song was freakin awesome.

The story in DkS2 is definitely iterative in that it takes the premise of the original and project it on a new kingdom. The backbone of the lore as such remains the same, but I think the individual story of Vendrick, Aldia and Nashandra is just as interesting as that of Gwyn and his cronies. The atmosphere of DkS2 I also found of a similair subdued melancholy.

All in all I definitely consider DkS2 a worthy sequel. When Shinji Mikami left Resident Evil that series took a nosedive in quality, but with Miyazaki not involved in DkS2 the difference is much less significant. Though I still hope Bloodborne will give me that same feeling as playing Demon's Souls for the first time.

 

[joest01]

Wow, these threads don't die easy.
Short answer is no, DkS1 was the shitty one. Everything after the vessel was dialed in crap. crystal caves, t-rexes, etc. And then the final level? What was that even. Atmosphere?

Demon's had atmosphere.
Dark2 has gameplay.
Dark1 has a disappointed fanbase that sees something that escapes me.

 

[default]

DS2 is lacking a lot of things that DS1 had, like enjoyable and tight gameplay for one. I got so tired of feeling like I was controlling a big slow-turning marshmallow man, not being able to combo up attacks, no flow or precision or freedom to the controls. DS2 lacks a lot of the artistic and aesthetic flair from the previous games. DS2 also lacks a lot of the interesting and well designed areas from the previous games. DS2 often just does not get the fucking point of a Souls game in general.


You know what? It's still a good game. Better than a lot of stuff that has come out recently, but it just does not stand up to the others in the series.

Wow, these threads don't die easy.
Short answer is no, DkS1 was the shitty one. Everything after the vessel was dialed in crap. crystal caves, t-rexes, etc. And then the final level? What was that even. Atmosphere?

Demon's had atmosphere.
Dark2 has gameplay.
Dark1 has a disappointed fanbase that sees something that escapes me.

I swear I've spoken to you before about this... I don't know what it is you're missing when it comes to DS1. Yes, Demon's Souls has the superior atmosphere and aesthetic, but to call Dark Souls just shitty and to ignore everything it does so incredibly well? And to prefer the slow, clunky and at times awful gameplay of DS2 to the tight, fast and flowy combat of DS1? I don't get it, dude. Yeah, a lot of the later areas are a bit of a disappointment but they all bring something interesting to the table at least.

 

[thetoddo]

I'm not that far into Dark Souls 2 so bear with me here but I feel like there is a more hopeful atmosphere. *snip*

Oh wait till you get to the end of the game and see why making Dranglaic seem a bit more like the world could be saved than Lordran was a great story choice.

Though I agree that the DS2 areas seem a lot less connected (nonsensical in a couple places) the atmosphere of individual zones (with the wharves and shrine being standouts) is really well executed and beautiful if you turn off the "these would never be right next to each other" part of your brain.

 

[joest01]

DS2 is lacking a lot of things that DS1 had, like enjoyable and tight gameplay for one. I got so tired of feeling like I was controlling a big slow-turning marshmallow man, not being able to combo up attacks, no flow or precision or freedom to the controls. DS2 lacks a lot of the artistic and aesthetic flair from the previous games. DS2 also lacks a lot of the interesting and well designed areas from the previous games. DS2 often just does not get the fucking point of a Souls game in general.


You know what? It's still a good game. Better than a lot of stuff that has come out recently, but it just does not stand up to the others in the series.

Wow, these threads don't die easy.
Short answer is no, DkS1 was the shitty one. Everything after the vessel was dialed in crap. crystal caves, t-rexes, etc. And then the final level? What was that even. Atmosphere?

Demon's had atmosphere.
Dark2 has gameplay.
Dark1 has a disappointed fanbase that sees something that escapes me.

I swear I've spoken to you before about this... I don't know what it is you're missing when it comes to DS1. Yes, Demon's Souls has the superior atmosphere and aesthetic, but to call Dark Souls just shitty and to ignore everything it does so incredibly well? And to prefer the slow, clunky and at times awful gameplay of DS2 to the tight, fast and flowy combat of DS1? I don't get it, dude. Yeah, a lot of the later areas are a bit of a disappointment but they all bring something interesting to the table at least.

The gameplay thing may come down to my playstyle. I never use shields. So maybe that is where DkS1 shines. I guess poise or whatever. But wasn't that broken? I guess the tree boss really showcased it. Prime example of DkS1 gimmickness.

Dark 1 was a massive disapointment for me. 2 started the same way. That cut scene? They had to be kidding me. And rolling starts out really bad (Pursuer was friggen nightmare the first time). Like it did in Dark 1 too, there it changed with the Ninja ring. Did I mention gimmicks?

Ugh lets agree to disagree.

Anyway, I joined 10 days before you so I got that going for me!

p.s. arent there rumors of a Demon's 2. Now that would be NICE.

 

[Not Lord Atkin]

I enjoyed Darks Souls 2 but the points you make are valid and I have noticed that the game was lacking in those areas. It didn't stop me from enjoying the game as a whole but it was a bit disappointing compared to Dark Souls 1.

The game just didn't feel all that well put together. Attacks didn't have the same weight behind them, hitting an enemy didn't feel nearly as satisfying, the environments felt barren and lifeless. It didn't pull me in the way dark souls 1 did. Now it was a brilliant game on its own merit but compared to dark souls one, it just didn't quite measure up.

 

[MechCollector]

I couldn't agree more. DkS2 just doesn't have the atmosphere the first game had, it doesn't lure me in with a dark fantasy and the mystery of exploration. The landscapes are less interesting and most of the bosses are just not impactful. The gameplay is similar enough. I don't like the switch from soul level to soul memory though, being level a SL1 or 10 and helping or killing lots of newbies in the beginning areas is great fun. The tracking in DkS2 is just annoying and it rides the border of challenging and frustrating.

The only real data that matters is the 400+ hours I have on DkS1 compared to the 70+ I have on DkS2. It's not a bad game, but it's just not Dark Souls 1.

 

[Chaos Isaac]

@Joest

I have that feeling you're one of the types who really didn't play the game, or, are just so rose-tinted you talk down about another game.

I also love how you use Bed of Chaos, a widely chosen weakpoint of the game's bosses, but not really backing up your statement beyond that. Which is fine, but I could easily return the same complaint of gimmick bosses at Demon's Souls. (Manta Ray, anybody?)

On topic, I would agree. There are many points Dark Souls 2 lacked in, compared to one, and it's strengths seem relatively few, because it didn't learn some of the lessons Dark Souls 1 had. (Guaranteed drops if all enemies of a non-respawning type are mudered, you get what's to be had. Enemies who fall of cliffs give you their items just in case.)

It's a weaker game, a case argued between Demon's and Dark, but since Dark Souls 2 is a hybrid, it's kinda a disappoint of both, not carrying either strengths of it's progenitors. If it was it's own beast, namely like Cursed or Amnesiac Souls, it would be *better* by not being compared directly to it's predecessor.

 

[Sande45]

I think it mostly comes down to the lighting. In the previews, the environments were oozing with great atmosphere. What we actually got was blocky pre-bakes shadows and washed out ugly grey areas.

p.s. arent there rumors of a Demon's 2. Now that would be NICE.

Sort of, it's called Bloodborne. Of course they might actually make a Demon's Souls 2 at some point but Bloodborne is the game that was rumored to be DeS 2 before it was leaked.

 

[JagermanXcell]

I think it mostly comes down to the lighting. In the previews, the environments were oozing with great atmosphere. What we actually got was blocky pre-bakes shadows and washed out ugly grey areas.

p.s. arent there rumors of a Demon's 2. Now that would be NICE.

Sort of, it's called Bloodborne. Of course they might actually make a Demon's Souls 2 at some point but Bloodborne is the game that was rumored to be DeS 2 before it was leaked.

There's actually more evidence towards Bloodborne being in the same universe as Demons. One of the unplayable boss fights in the alpha has dialogue during the fight. Can't remember exactly what he said, but it was something along the lines of "May you suffer a slow and painful death you dreaded beast, Umbassa".
That or Umbassa is just the universal phrase for "God" or something for the sake of fan service.

OT: I've been to one too many of these threads pretty much agreeing so i'll just say what I usually say, since Dks2 lacks more than just atmosphere.
Dks2 is a fine game, and the DLC is where the real game lies, but the new team behind it should really really learn from this severely. For one thing they straight up lied about the lighting engine (which I consider a huge factor to why the atmosphere is just gone), they simply don't know the difference between a challenging boss and a hard boss until the DLCs of all things sort of proved otherwise, the lore is just empty and lives little to the imagination (again... the DLC had to fix this...cmon...), and they recycle bosses in a far worse manner than Dks1 did...

Ok, let me explain this one. People rag on Dks1 for recycling the Asylum Demon 2 times. But Dks2 does this with Smelter Demon in the SECOND DLC, and then recycles a brand new boss in the final DLC. Dks1 was rushed, there's no doubt about it, but the fact that they copy pasted things in DLC?! That is frikin lazy.
AND THIS GAME HAD TIME, IT HAD A BIGGER BUDGET, A BIGGER STAFF, BUT WHAT HAPPENED THAT KILLED THE POLISH?

And let me just say one last thing... at least Miyazaki apologized for the shit things in Dks1. He apologized for Lost Izalith not being finished, the whole end game sort of lacking, and admitted that the Bed of Chaos was an ambitious idea gone to shit.

Yui Tanamura on the other hand still owes us a goddamn apology for the Ancient Dragon and latency in "dedicated servers"......

EDIT: And most if not all the NPCs were meaningless to the world... closest thing to a "Solaire" in this game was this hero:

Spoiler

 

[iLikeHippos]

I don't know what feeling you're talking about when it comes to Dks 1, cause all I remember is a massive headache at 30 fps and low graphics on the xbox 360 (it felt like a godsend when I finally finished the game because it was over. Probably not their intention). But I do agree that there is no eerie tone or theme in particular that strikes out in Dks 2 - just your regular post-apocalyptic setting, except this time it's medieval fantasy.

But isn't that ok? There's tons o' fun just killing shit, bosses, collecting gear for fashion and enjoy PvP that is more challenging than most other games today can offer.
But then again, I spent 700 hours on one game, 25 on the other, and given up on storytelling in videogames in general, so I might be a tad biased.

 

[GloatingSwine]

EDIT: And most if not all the NPCs were meaningless to the world... closest thing to a "Solaire" in this game was this hero:

Spoiler

The Dark Souls NPCs are also meaningless to the world except inasmuch as they demonstrate how hopeless and doomed everything is, which is why almost all of them end up hollow.

Also Solaire ain't got nothing on onionbro.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

A world that didn't make sense. In Lordran, despite the stylised fantasy environments and places like "lava city" and "poison town" it all made sense because it was built on levels. Firelink was sort of a starting point for the game - you go up and get your town areas like the Undead Burg and Chapel, which connected to areas like the forest and Sen's. Another level going up you get Anor Londo and the Duke's Archives. Going down you get at first the Depths, New Londo and the Catacobmbs. Below that you get Blightown and Quelaag's domain. Further bellow you get the Demon Ruins and Lost Izalith. You can even see the Demon Ruins from the Tomb of the Giants! It is brilliant world design in how there's different layers to the world and they all connect to each other.

Meanwhile in Drangleic it's all just extremely over the place. Majula is at the start of the game, you go down from there and you either get a forest followed by a castle, or a huge sunken city? There's no sense of location in the game and it's just compounded by everything being illogical, you're constantly going up or down but there's no logic to it at all and the areas don't feel interconnected or even in the same kingdoms. Castle Drangleic doesn't feel like it should be in the same place as either Heide's Tower or the Dragon Keep or the bloody Iron Keep (which is just a level from Mario).

Eh, Lordran never made sense to me either. I mean, the entire kingdom of Lordran seems to take up a 2 square mile area. For god's sake, there are 6 cities all within a 2 minute walk of one another, that's absolute nonsense. Of those cities only the presence of 3 actually makes sense.

Yes, Drangleic wasn't nearly as interconnected as Lordran was, and yes there were some really big inconsistencies as far as how the areas were connected (Earthen Peak to Iron Keep) but at least Drangleic actually felt like you were exploring an entire continent. Lordran feels really small especially because you end up running back and forth through every area multiple times. By the time you do new game plus the whole of Lordran feels like it fits in the palm of your hand.

I can appreciate how intricately designed the world of Dark Souls 1 is, and the way the areas connect is all really cool, like how you can see Ash Lake and Lost Izalith from Tomb of the Giants, but the way the world is interconnected also makes it seem much less massive and impressive in scope. Traveling through Drangleic feels like more of a journey.

Inconsistent enemies is another one. In Dark Souls the enemies were placed well and designed logically. Crystal enemies were present in Seath's areas, there were varieties of different skeletons in Nito's areas, the areas near Lost Izalith were overrun by demons (including Blightown) and everything felt logical. In DS2 there were turtle warriors spread everywhere and there was enemies with lightning swords in the fire areas for some reason. Enemies were placed randomly and didn't have the personality of the first game.

There are some inconsistent enemy placements in the game (the grave wardens at Earthen Peak for one), but they're fairly rare actually, and the ones that you referenced (the turtle knights and Alonne Captains) actually make sense.

There are 2 places in the game where there are turtle knights, The Forest of the Fallen Giants and Iron Keep. The reason they're in Iron Keep is because they were created by the Old Iron King. The Old Iron King had the ability to imbue iron with a soul and give it life, and he used that ability to create the ironclads (turtle knights). Vendrick had a similar ability, the ability to imbue golems with souls to make them move. When the giants attacked Drangleic Vendrick sent soldiers to Iron Keep and had them bring back ironclads, which he then imbued with souls and had them serve in his army. This is explained in the lore.

"The Ironclad Soldiers were minions created by the Old Iron King, their life granted by an enchantment of souls. By now this is again an iron husk, and fit to wear."

"One day, warriors wearing decrepit armor emerged from drangleic castle, and quietly assumed positions amongst the royal army. Not one of them ever spoke a word, or revealed the face under the mask."

As far as the Alonne Knights go they make perfect sense to me. Why are enemies in a fire area using lightning weapons? Because they live in a fire area! Think about it, what kind of creatures would live in an area of fire and lava? Creatures that are resistant or immune to fire. If they're resistant to fire then they're weak to lightning, so the Alonne Captains use lightning weapons. It makes total logical sense.

Bad texturing is the final one. So many of the levels in 2 were just bland, badly textured rooms with no features or anything in it. Meanwhile Dark Souls felt so much more "dark" and even starting areas like the Undead Asylum were incredibly well textured with lighting effects on individual bricks and it gave the game world a much more decaying feel.

What do you guys think about this?

Yeah, I can't disagree with this one, there are some places in Dark Souls 2 that are just badly textured, like the Shaded Woods (god that's an ugly area). Most of those ugly textures were never meant to be seen the way they are though, because remember From Software gutted their lighting engine at the last second, but they never took the time to fix their textures. A lot of this is fixable with mods, but it really is unfortunate that Dark Souls 2 didn't get that last coat of polish that it needed. Still there are some pretty stunning areas in the game. Drangleic Castle, Shrine of Amana, Undead Crypt, Heide's Tower of Flame, The Gutter, Dragon Aerie and Dragon Shrine all look amazing and are dripping with atmosphere.

 

[endtherapture]

A world that didn't make sense. In Lordran, despite the stylised fantasy environments and places like "lava city" and "poison town" it all made sense because it was built on levels. Firelink was sort of a starting point for the game - you go up and get your town areas like the Undead Burg and Chapel, which connected to areas like the forest and Sen's. Another level going up you get Anor Londo and the Duke's Archives. Going down you get at first the Depths, New Londo and the Catacobmbs. Below that you get Blightown and Quelaag's domain. Further bellow you get the Demon Ruins and Lost Izalith. You can even see the Demon Ruins from the Tomb of the Giants! It is brilliant world design in how there's different layers to the world and they all connect to each other.

Meanwhile in Drangleic it's all just extremely over the place. Majula is at the start of the game, you go down from there and you either get a forest followed by a castle, or a huge sunken city? There's no sense of location in the game and it's just compounded by everything being illogical, you're constantly going up or down but there's no logic to it at all and the areas don't feel interconnected or even in the same kingdoms. Castle Drangleic doesn't feel like it should be in the same place as either Heide's Tower or the Dragon Keep or the bloody Iron Keep (which is just a level from Mario).

Eh, Lordran never made sense to me either. I mean, the entire kingdom of Lordran seems to take up a 2 square mile area. For god's sake, there are 6 cities all within a 2 minute walk of one another, that's absolute nonsense. Of those cities only the presence of 3 actually makes sense.

Yes, Drangleic wasn't nearly as interconnected as Lordran was, and yes there were some really big inconsistencies as far as how the areas were connected (Earthen Peak to Iron Keep) but at least Drangleic actually felt like you were exploring an entire continent. Lordran feels really small especially because you end up running back and forth through every area multiple times. By the time you do new game plus the whole of Lordran feelts like it fits in the palm of your hand.

I can appreciate how intricately designed the world of Dark Souls 1 is, and the way the areas connect is all really cool, like how you can see Ash Lake and Lost Izalith from Tomb of the Giants, but the way the world is interconnected also makes it seem much less massive and impressive in scope. Traveling through Drangleic feels like more of a journey.

To me it all sort of made sense because I wasn't taking it as the entire area of Lordran. Anor Londo is a huge city and you only really explore a small part of it, so that was fine for me. The Undead Burg was a little small but same there. Below that you obviously had the depths and Blighttown. If the Undead towns were the normal areas of Lordran, these were the seedy underworld. Places like Lost Izalith and New Londo were obviously fallen cities corrupted and fallen into the depths of time, whilst the undead town was the "newest" city. The catacombs were ancient deep burial grounds, same with tomb of the giants. But I suppose we have just different opinions.

DS2 I just wish were less explicitly connected so that the world felt bigger and more logical. If it had an Archstone mechanic like in Demon's the world would have been better.

 

[garjian]

I had a different intro before, but it stopped making sense when I found so much to prattle on about... so here we go.

It seems I have a few problems with Dark Souls 2's atmosphere, but for a particular reason. My bugbear is more to do with the broader sense of how I felt as a player, more than just the surroundings and enemy's appearance. There's a few areas and little touches in Dark Souls 2 that show they had the right ideas but didn't quite execute them correctly or to their full extent.

The misty area of Shaded Woods is pretty terrifying the first time you go there, and even now, if I want anything from those chests I know it'll be a hassle. Each playthrough I find myself wishing the whole area was shrouded like that and filled with invisible enemies, with a boss to match... forcing me to actually have to do something in that kind of environment.
Overall, I think it would be a much more interesting offering than the very easily dealt with Lion Warriors and the rather mediocre fight with Scorpioness Najka.

Also Black Gulch. It was very imposing the first time I saw it, and of course when I tried to sprint through it and failed, it felt like a very dangerous place. It's an area that's annoying to go through cautiously, but still, I wish it were longer and had more to offer.

Another thing I'd mention was the pre-patch Shrine of Amana. Shrine of Amana was the place I dreaded reaching on each of the characters I'd made, and frankly, that's what I wish the majority of the game felt like to get through.
It's a shame they chose to go the opposite way if you ask me, I always felt that Souls games were about that feeling of pressure, and mastering the areas. That's what I want when I play the PvE at least.

I'd love a Lost Bastille with no bonfire in Sinner Rise, forcing you to do the Gargoyle's for a shortcut.
I'd love--well, I loved--going through Iron Keep with no post-Smelter Bonfire, and using Belfry Sol. (On my first playthrough I missed the ladder leading to the bonfire before Iron King, and skipped Smelter Demon too... I enjoyed it like that...)
I'd love a full stage of horrible invisible enemies that backstab you if you attempt to open any chests in a misty, eerie Shaded Woods, with the trees groaning at you in the distance.
A much darker, pitch-black Undead Crypt, full of those Grave Wardens that would become additional enemies if you try to light it up at any point.
I'd love all of that... every area having a clear and distinct challenge that you dread coming to it for.

What good ideas they did have, they later either made redundant or restricted to tiny areas that can easily be skipped...
When I think back to Dark Souls 1, they didn't skimp on Sen's Fortress at all. They threw the thinnest of platforms, with the pendulums at varying spaces and timings, on top of projectiles trying to knock you off, and did so 3 or 4 times and all with no bonfire.
They made sure you hated Anor Londo too with those archers, that's for sure.
Bonewheel Skeletons... Those goddamn teleporting Channelers... The ghosts in New Londo Ruins, and the crawling giants in Tomb of the Giants. Each unique to an area, and each requiring something different from you to overcome, and each area more memorable for it.

-

I guess what I'd say is if someone were new to both games, for almost every area in 1 I could say "Wait 'til you get to the ___ part", but not for very many of Dark Souls 2's. That little individual element of challenge that set each area apart is what I feel most takes away from the atmosphere of Dark Souls 2, much more than the wonky layout and enemy flavours.

 

[default]

DS2 is lacking a lot of things that DS1 had, like enjoyable and tight gameplay for one. I got so tired of feeling like I was controlling a big slow-turning marshmallow man, not being able to combo up attacks, no flow or precision or freedom to the controls. DS2 lacks a lot of the artistic and aesthetic flair from the previous games. DS2 also lacks a lot of the interesting and well designed areas from the previous games. DS2 often just does not get the fucking point of a Souls game in general.


You know what? It's still a good game. Better than a lot of stuff that has come out recently, but it just does not stand up to the others in the series.

Wow, these threads don't die easy.
Short answer is no, DkS1 was the shitty one. Everything after the vessel was dialed in crap. crystal caves, t-rexes, etc. And then the final level? What was that even. Atmosphere?

Demon's had atmosphere.
Dark2 has gameplay.
Dark1 has a disappointed fanbase that sees something that escapes me.

I swear I've spoken to you before about this... I don't know what it is you're missing when it comes to DS1. Yes, Demon's Souls has the superior atmosphere and aesthetic, but to call Dark Souls just shitty and to ignore everything it does so incredibly well? And to prefer the slow, clunky and at times awful gameplay of DS2 to the tight, fast and flowy combat of DS1? I don't get it, dude. Yeah, a lot of the later areas are a bit of a disappointment but they all bring something interesting to the table at least.

The gameplay thing may come down to my playstyle. I never use shields. So maybe that is where DkS1 shines. I guess poise or whatever. But wasn't that broken? I guess the tree boss really showcased it. Prime example of DkS1 gimmickness.

Dark 1 was a massive disapointment for me. 2 started the same way. That cut scene? They had to be kidding me. And rolling starts out really bad (Pursuer was friggen nightmare the first time). Like it did in Dark 1 too, there it changed with the Ninja ring. Did I mention gimmicks?

Ugh lets agree to disagree.

Anyway, I joined 10 days before you so I got that going for me!

p.s. arent there rumors of a Demon's 2. Now that would be NICE.

I dunno dude, I never use shields either and I still far prefer Dark 1's really fast, reliable and reactive dodge mechanics to anything Dark 2 dished up. Shields are such a crutch in all the Souls games. They're an important one for learning the game, for sure, but I just find everything really begins to shine when you go shieldless and dodge everything flawlessly like a zen monk. It's one of the reasons a Soul Level 1 run is so much fun, everything can be dodged but you just need to be fast enough, and Dark 1's dodge mechanics really lend to that.


You actually inspired me to shell out for a PS3 and Demon's Souls and I had a blast. I'll never forget the first time I came across the Fool's Idol. That was a really great sequence. And the end of the Valley of Defilement? Brilliant. The attack animations were all way more stylish and fun to watch too. Granted it became a little bit of a disappointment near the end as I overlevelled with a sword and board character and killed every boss first time, but on my next run I'm going to go shieldless and cap myself at 30 or so. A Demon's 2 set in the same world would be very nice. I'm really excited for Bloodborne too. Here's hoping I win the lottery or something in the meantime so I can afford it.


But ah well, we must just have different priorities Agree to disagree it is. Pffft, 10 days? Well I was coming to this site solely to watch Zero Punctuation way before you were!

 

[JagermanXcell]

EDIT: And most if not all the NPCs were meaningless to the world... closest thing to a "Solaire" in this game was this hero:

Spoiler

The Dark Souls NPCs are also meaningless to the world except inasmuch as they demonstrate how hopeless and doomed everything is, which is why almost all of them end up hollow.

Also Solaire ain't got nothing on onionbro.

Yeeeeaaah, I didn't really word that correctly. Replace meaningless with "not as deep". As in Dks2 NPCs and their stories go no where.

As for your taste in Onions, if I didn't know any better... I would say you have feelings for him.
Oh my, forget I said anything. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.